Sandra Cantu #3 4/15/09 -4/27/09

[JessStar]

Jess,
Good evening to you and well stated. I would add: Occams Razor.

I value your contribution and thoughts to this case as I do everyone on here that speaks to the facts of the case.

Blink

Thank you Blink.  That means a lot to me.  I want to see Justice for Sandra in this case, and I want to see the assault on our children to STOP!!!!   I'll be the happiest, proudest person alive if I am able to contribute even a millionth of a percent toward achieving that goal.

[AZSunny]

Serenity, thank you for your response.

On Motive and the issue as to whether Sandra was sexually assaulted, we will have to agree to disagree.

However, you keep referring to the mother as intoxicated or drunk.. IN NO PLACE WHATSOEVER DOES IT STATE THAT IN ANY REPORT, ANYWHERE. It said the officer smelled alcohol on her breath and she had access to a prescription. That's IT. I have seen them myself.

In the meantime, there is a 7 year old, who was missing without permission for 4 hours with a woman on a psych probation (they did not even run her record) and exhibited signs of drug intoxication upon arrival to her home. This Mother was talked out of filing a MP report.

Whether or not the Mom had a drink is irrelevant, she was clearly sober enough to seek treatment for her child when she needed it. THE CHILD IS ALWAYS FIRST. If the Officer truly thought CFS would "take her kid away" then he needed to take that chance either way. It is his job as first responder. To further play devil's advocate, what if it HAD BEEN the mother? Also, if CFS had investigated it, you can bet your bippy Huckaby would have ended up investigated and had a file opened on her own. Either way, it probably woud have saved Sandra's life. This is the way it is sometimes.

Sometimes people make a bad call and someone else pays for it. To excuse it, or see it as acceptable is a slap in the face to both the child that was drugged and Sandra Cantu.. Possibly also Huckaby's daughter.  

She was drugged. She was 7. They effed up and they know it.
I work with many agencies of LE. This weekend it was on an active MP case. I have sat across from people that have had a loved one taken from them that was preventable. The anguish that comes with that realization is not something I can describe to you. It is close to that gutteral wail that sounds like it is really someone else, somewhere else, that stays with you forever.

I am not saying you need to agree with me, but I stand for Sandra, and what should not have happened to this child of God.  Thank you for being respectful of our difference of opinion.
Blink

  Thank you Blink!!

[Tracygirl]

You know I am thinking about something and want some opinions.....Does anyone have a reason a little girl would be doped up without it having to do with sexual assault? If a person wanted to kill someone, wouldn't drugging a person and staying with them, I suppose just watching them sleep for 4 hours, wouldn't that be sort of the long way to get the result you are looking for? Especially a child, that more then likely someone was going to notice missing. I honestly cannot think of anything other reason MH drugged that 7 year old child then to do something to her she didn't want known. I doubt she was painting her finger nails,  poor girl! Also, touching a child in "that" area or taking pictures of a naked child will not produce any signs of abuse. This poor little girl was abused by this woman and thankfully she was not killed too. I hope she is getting some therapy, I am sure she needs it.

Also, we honestly do not know when the suitcase was tossed into the pond. It was somewhere between March 27th to April 6th. It could have been 10 days or 10 hours.

[Blink34]

You know I am thinking about something and want some opinions.....Does anyone have a reason a little girl would be doped up without it having to do with sexual assault? If a person wanted to kill someone, wouldn't drugging a person and staying with them, I suppose just watching them sleep for 4 hours, wouldn't that be sort of the long way to get the result you are looking for? Especially a child, that more then likely someone was going to notice missing. I honestly cannot think of anything other reason MH drugged that 7 year old child then to do something to her she didn't want known. I doubt she was painting her finger nails,  poor girl! Also, touching a child in "that" area or taking pictures of a naked child will not produce any signs of abuse. This poor little girl was abused by this woman and thankfully she was not killed too. I hope she is getting some therapy, I am sure she needs it.

Also, we honestly do not know when the suitcase was tossed into the pond. It was somewhere between March 27th to April 6th. It could have been 10 days or 10 hours.

FWIW, Tracy, I do not believe there is any reason to drug a child and disappear for 4 hours that is not in some way sexually motivated. Remember, her grandparents called her and probably told her the Police were there. She did not have a choice but to take the child home. The fact that this happened and allegedly there was no abuse strengthens my belief there is more going on here. I know for a fact the FBI is lead on this case now, and that spells porn ring to me.

[spring2]

You know I am thinking about something and want some opinions.....Does anyone have a reason a little girl would be doped up without it having to do with sexual assault? If a person wanted to kill someone, wouldn't drugging a person and staying with them, I suppose just watching them sleep for 4 hours, wouldn't that be sort of the long way to get the result you are looking for? Especially a child, that more then likely someone was going to notice missing. I honestly cannot think of anything other reason MH drugged that 7 year old child then to do something to her she didn't want known. I doubt she was painting her finger nails,  poor girl! Also, touching a child in "that" area or taking pictures of a naked child will not produce any signs of abuse. This poor little girl was abused by this woman and thankfully she was not killed too. I hope she is getting some therapy, I am sure she needs it.

Also, we honestly do not know when the suitcase was tossed into the pond. It was somewhere between March 27th to April 6th. It could have been 10 days or 10 hours.

FWIW, Tracy, I do not believe there is any reason to drug a child and disappear for 4 hours that is not in some way sexually motivated. Remember, her grandparents called her and probably told her the Police were there. She did not have a choice but to take the child home. The fact that this happened and allegedly there was no abuse strengthens my belief there is more going on here. I know for a fact the FBI is lead on this case now, and that spells porn ring to me.

Well, I wish they would hurry up and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!  I am afraid for the next little girl who becomes a victim.  I still have it in my gut that they are trying to calm the community, and it's either going to stay hush hush or this is the calm before the storm!

[Blink34]

You know I am thinking about something and want some opinions.....Does anyone have a reason a little girl would be doped up without it having to do with sexual assault? If a person wanted to kill someone, wouldn't drugging a person and staying with them, I suppose just watching them sleep for 4 hours, wouldn't that be sort of the long way to get the result you are looking for? Especially a child, that more then likely someone was going to notice missing. I honestly cannot think of anything other reason MH drugged that 7 year old child then to do something to her she didn't want known. I doubt she was painting her finger nails,  poor girl! Also, touching a child in "that" area or taking pictures of a naked child will not produce any signs of abuse. This poor little girl was abused by this woman and thankfully she was not killed too. I hope she is getting some therapy, I am sure she needs it.

Also, we honestly do not know when the suitcase was tossed into the pond. It was somewhere between March 27th to April 6th. It could have been 10 days or 10 hours.

FWIW, Tracy, I do not believe there is any reason to drug a child and disappear for 4 hours that is not in some way sexually motivated. Remember, her grandparents called her and probably told her the Police were there. She did not have a choice but to take the child home. The fact that this happened and allegedly there was no abuse strengthens my belief there is more going on here. I know for a fact the FBI is lead on this case now, and that spells porn ring to me.

Well, I wish they would hurry up and DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!  I am afraid for the next little girl who becomes a victim.  I still have it in my gut that they are trying to calm the community, and it's either going to stay hush hush or this is the calm before the storm!

I have every belief, sadly, after the fact, that Tracy is under such a microscope from several agencies right now, it is the calm before the storm.
B

[Tracygirl]

You know I am thinking about something and want some opinions.....Does anyone have a reason a little girl would be doped up without it having to do with sexual assault? If a person wanted to kill someone, wouldn't drugging a person and staying with them, I suppose just watching them sleep for 4 hours, wouldn't that be sort of the long way to get the result you are looking for? Especially a child, that more then likely someone was going to notice missing. I honestly cannot think of anything other reason MH drugged that 7 year old child then to do something to her she didn't want known. I doubt she was painting her finger nails,  poor girl! Also, touching a child in "that" area or taking pictures of a naked child will not produce any signs of abuse. This poor little girl was abused by this woman and thankfully she was not killed too. I hope she is getting some therapy, I am sure she needs it.

Also, we honestly do not know when the suitcase was tossed into the pond. It was somewhere between March 27th to April 6th. It could have been 10 days or 10 hours.

FWIW, Tracy, I do not believe there is any reason to drug a child and disappear for 4 hours that is not in some way sexually motivated. Remember, her grandparents called her and probably told her the Police were there. She did not have a choice but to take the child home. The fact that this happened and allegedly there was no abuse strengthens my belief there is more going on here. I know for a fact the FBI is lead on this case now, and that spells porn ring to me.

Thank you Blink for your response. I too believe this case has everything to do with a porn ring, I have since the beginning. I will go as far as saying they found out about the porn due to the Kyle R case. Something triggered the investigation and the details of the "Tracy tortured teen case" points to child porn or child prostitution.
I am glad to know the FBI has this because my small minded police force leaves little to be desired.

[aussie]

Hello,
I stumbled across this site last week and have checked it daily for comments and news. I love reading what you all write and how kind you are to each other. Frankly, I am puzzled as to why I am even so interested in MH since I do not read these kinds of things normally. But, I see that I am not alone in my interest!! Perhaps it's because I have a Baptist background and this crime is all just so foreign to me.....I know of no one in my circles who is like this, but, at the same time it is strangely fascinating to me. MH's family interests me as I wonder if that is the root of her criminal behavior, as has been mentioned so often? Her childhood? If so, where did the family go so wrong? Or, did they? I remember reading MH has siblings...... Adam Lawless, in the military. Caleb Lawless, and an adopted sister Julianne. I wondered what they are like. I researched and found some photos who might be Caleb, but I am not sure. He kind of looks like MH. I also found a Philip Hughes (Joni's son?) who mentions his cousin Adam and he also posted a photo of another Lawless female cousin..........perhaps Brett's daughter? She sort of looks like one of the girls who were in the Lawless family group on Easter Sunday when they had the poor judgment to hold church and talk to reporters. I am trying to figure out who the 9 grandchildren are. Are they struggling also? I would love to know what you all think of these websites and if there is a clue in family and upbringing? Who and where is MH's mother? Why hadn't MH's father Brian spoken to MH in 3-4 months as he stated on tv??? He seemed so clueless about his own daughter. Why didn't MH go home and live with her parents to "regroup" and get her life back on board?

Caleb Lawless:http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=408459217

Philip Hughes : http://www.myspace.com/phlon1 (mentions cousin Adam and cousin Megan, both Lawless.)

[klaasend]

Welcome Aussie! Good questions about MH's dad.  Not sure if those links are relatives though.

[Deenie]

You know I am thinking about something and want some opinions.....Does anyone have a reason a little girl would be doped up without it having to do with sexual assault? If a person wanted to kill someone, wouldn't drugging a person and staying with them, I suppose just watching them sleep for 4 hours, wouldn't that be sort of the long way to get the result you are looking for? Especially a child, that more then likely someone was going to notice missing. I honestly cannot think of anything other reason MH drugged that 7 year old child then to do something to her she didn't want known. I doubt she was painting her finger nails,  poor girl! Also, touching a child in "that" area or taking pictures of a naked child will not produce any signs of abuse. This poor little girl was abused by this woman and thankfully she was not killed too. I hope she is getting some therapy, I am sure she needs it.

Also, we honestly do not know when the suitcase was tossed into the pond. It was somewhere between March 27th to April 6th. It could have been 10 days or 10 hours.

TG
I know your post is of Quid Pro Quo ..your questions are of playing Devils Advocate. Remember Silence of Lambs ..Clarice. You are straight up and on ..its what it is. Its Sick and its wrong and it is hard to conceive mentally.

My personal opinion is that this " little girl" was more than likely sexually assaulted by a camera. She could have had a list long of things done to her that never showed on her physical body .. makes me want to throw up and Hurt MH and all those involved. I know in my heart of hearts that MH is not alone in all of this. The thing is TG she got away with it the first time. She took a child, drugged her ..and provided her .and was Paid for it.
What happened afterward is ??? She never the left the child - THAT my TG is the Key of it all. She knew she could not leave her. So when the Phone call came in - Bring the kid home ..MH did just that.

Have you ever watched the Movie Death Wish ?  Its an old Movie with Charles Bronson - He becomes a Vigilante after his Wife and Daughter are raped and killed.
Reason why I brought this movie into convo is .. My Dad brought it up ..after I told him about Sandra Cantu first being missing. My Pops is almost 80 and his hairs split with all that I told him .. He said If I could ever be Now .. I would be like Him and Just take my own Justice for Sandra.. This was prior to Sandra body being found. My Father's Hinkey Meter was on High back then ..when I just told him base facts of Sandra being missing..
This is all about Child Exploitation and pornography .. It will come out ..I know this.
If it walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck .. Its Probably a Duck .. 

[Anna]

The other little girl who was drugged would not likely recall what happened to her under the influence of the drugs and for that reason alone it should have been better checked.

And it certainly is not OK at all but our system does operate in a manner that lets so many things happen these days. 

How many times has a crime been committed by a person who was a previous sexual offender and yet was released?

There are many things we are not doing right.  I believe a couple of states have tried to give the death penalty for sexual battery on a young child.  I think Louisiana was one of them.  But wasn't that ruled unconstitutional because no loss of life of the victim?

Our system is somewhat broken but I don't know how to fix it. 

[Deenie]

The other little girl who was drugged would not likely recall what happened to her under the influence of the drugs and for that reason alone it should have been better checked.

And it certainly is not OK at all but our system does operate in a manner that lets so many things happen these days. 

How many times has a crime been committed by a person who was a previous sexual offender and yet was released?

There are many things we are not doing right.  I believe a couple of states have tried to give the death penalty for sexual battery on a young child.  I think Louisiana was one of them.  But wasn't that ruled unconstitutional because no loss of life of the victim?

Our system is somewhat broken but I don't know how to fix it. 

Anna they do not even put the SO's who are proven to be Sex Offenders " Heinous Acts" against Children in Jail...they give them Probation and then the disappear into never never find me .....OR Yet while on Probation after the fact of sexually assaulting a child - they Pee dirty with Weed or other drugs ....then they put them in jail.. UM something is wrong.
Big Red Truck

[Anna]

Even if nothing was done of a sexual nature to the first child, no one has the right to go around drugging other people.  Physicians study years to learn to do this safely for surgical procedures and I don't think the likes of the average nutcase on the street has a clue what is a lethal dose of something is.

I believe this is what was done to Natalee Holloway as well.  They end up killing their victim whether or not that was the original intent and it is still Murder One in my opinion.

There is no reason whatsoever for one person to be drugging another.  That is a form of death even temporary to try to render another helpless and unconscious.  It is a totally evil act in and of itself.  And now we have date rape drugs all over the place in addition to everything else.

[Deenie]

Even if nothing was done of a sexual nature to the first child, no one has the right to go around drugging other people.  Physicians study years to learn to do this safely for surgical procedures and I don't think the likes of the average nutcase on the street has a clue what is a lethal dose of something is.

I believe this is what was done to Natalee Holloway as well.  They end up killing their victim whether or not that was the original intent and it is still Murder One in my opinion.

There is no reason whatsoever for one person to be drugging another.  That is a form of death even temporary to try to render another helpless and unconscious.  It is a totally evil act in and of itself.  And now we have date rape drugs all over the place in addition to everything else.

I agree 100 % with You

[Deenie]

Anna come into Musings .. Mytime is in the room ..lets go and breath for a bit k.

[Anna]

Deenie, Let's make drugging a capital offense as well.  Anyone caught trying such, lock em up and throw away the key.  They HAVE to be up to total no good to be doing it in the first place.

It takes away a person's mind and will and use of their own body, etc. and so in my mind is a form of killing even if the intent is to be temporary.  Just no one has the right to do that to another.

Second offense and give them a drugging of their own, death penalty style.  Or maybe on the first if the evidence is very solid. 

[Deenie]

Deenie, Let's make drugging a capital offense as well.  Anyone caught trying such, lock em up and throw away the key.  They HAVE to be up to total no good to be doing it in the first place.

It takes away a person's mind and will and use of their own body, etc. and so in my mind is a form of killing even if the intent is to be temporary.  Just no one has the right to do that to another.

Second offense and give them a drugging of their own, death penalty style.  Or maybe on the first if the evidence is very solid. 

Anna we CAN achieve Anything = As long as we put our Brains together. I have things to share with you. That I want to do. I think we can do this if we band together and sort it out and Make it " clear" .. and present it well.
What is the famous Words - Squeeky Wheel Receives Oil .. We can do this. I have been talking to Dolce. Need to something because whats in place " has been in place" for too long ..and WE know its NOT working.
xx K

[Tams]

Good evening, Wyks - see that you are a fellow insomniac as well!

Thank you for your lovely welcome the other day - and, yes, I am in Sacramento. In fact, I lived right off of the American River in Gold River for many years. Been here for 20 years now; the first 28 (ugh! hard to admit - getting old) was in Littleton, Colorado. And, talk about a small world - my ex was born/ raised in a tiny town in Nebraska (McCook), where I believe you said you are now. Anyhoooooo - nice to see you again!

[JazzTune]

Catching up now - thanks so much to everyone for the news links.  A special thanks to JessStar for sharing his legal knowledge and insight here.  It's really helpful in trying to understand how some of the pieces might fit together.  Your input is invaluable!

One thing I can offer is that a benzo is a benzo, and not anything else.  Our hospital only has a routine lab, (not state-of-the art or anything like that) but when benzos are found on drug screens, THAT is what is there.  No reason to question it.  I can say too that benzos are controlled substances only, and would never be available in any OTC meds.  They all require a prescription.

If Melissa did use her own prescription benzos to sedate Sandra or the other child, then the first thought that comes to my mind would be most likely, either Xanax or Ativan.  Those two are among those most frequently prescribed.  Of course, she could have obtained any med off the street.  So who knows at this point?

The rest of my post will be for Wyks.  It will probably be heartfelt and personal, so if other people want to skip past it, please feel free.

Wyks, I could tell my last post seared you to your core.  You thought it was insensitive, especially on this forum.  I went to your web site.  Overwhelmed, I got a pretty good glimpse of why you feel that way, and I offer my sincere apology for causing you any hurt. 

You said with knowledge comes understanding.  I hope I can say the same thing (very respectfully) back to you.  I don't mean to sound flippant.  That's not at all the way I feel.  I hope you will give me the chance to explain what I wrote.

We who work with the mentally ill probably DO come across as callous at times.  Not because we don't understand or haven't experienced abuse.  But actually, just the opposite!  Many of us have suffered childhood abuse that could rival that of many of our patients.

My father was a violent alcoholic.  We tiptoed around him, never knowing when furniture or bodies would go flying into the wall.  He held a gun on us when I was 9.  At age 10, I found him trying to choke my mother.  My brother could never comfortably wear a shirt because of the pain from my father's belt hitting his back over and over.  Our childhood was a battlefield.  Every single day.  There were no shelters for battered women and children then.  Domestic violence was of little concern to society.

I tell you this, not for sympathy but to point out that my story is NOT at all unusual among mental health staff.  Many of us were drawn to the field because we DO understand.  We have been there.

I received therapy many years ago, long before I went into psych.  My therapist used honesty and firmness in order to help me.  She would often say, "In order to get better, you're first going to have to feel a whole lot worse!"  She was right.  It WAS hard.  It DID hurt, but I got better.  She was kind AND very firm.  Anything less would not have helped me.

She did NOT allow me to con her.  When I didn't want to do the work she asked of me, I'd sometimes play my HURT cards.  I knew I had "earned" them, but playing them over and over, only kept me stuck.  Not any real help to me in the long run. 

I know now that's the reason I was drawn to psychiatric nursing.  I wanted to pay it forward because I DO understand some of what they go through.

I mentioned dissociative disorder and borderline personality disorder because it was brought up in regards to Melissa.  Our patients have a variety of mental illnesses and disorders.  Abuse is the underlying cause for many of them.  The abuse was NOT their fault.  Yet, (for a few) it's THEIR lives that are now on hold.  THEIR lives that are not moving forward.  They come in over and over and over.  They don't follow up with their out-patient appointments.  Won't take their meds.   And yes, a few of them do try to con us.  It's a fact.

Not saying their abuse is imagined or not real.  They have genuine, tragic stories.  It's time they had some happiness in their lives NOW.  Helping them IS a challenge, but it's one we never back away from.  They deserve the best we can give we can give them.  Sometimes that means holding their feet to the fire. 

Callous is not always what it appears.  Sometimes it's not even callous at all. 

I'm sorry if this still comes across as harsh to you.  You don't have to respond to it; I will respect your sensitivity and boundaries, and not bring it up anymore.  Subject will be closed.  I just hoped it might help you to understand where I'm coming from. 

One more thing.  Pardon me too for bragging a little but on our patient surveys, (given to everyone on discharge) I am consistently listed as the nurse who helped them the most. I do love my work and it makes me feel I must be doing something right...

[Tams]

Hello Monkeys

See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil what this means to me

See no evil, looks the other way when our children are being harmed because they just can't wrap their mind around this kind of evil. To afraid of what they might see

Hear no evil, doesn't want to hear about all the children that are harmed so they can pretend it doesn't happen.  To afraid of what they might hear

Speak no evil, lets just brush this under the rug if it's never spoken then it never will happen to the children. To afraid to have a voice
It's just to much for some to endure but our children endure it every day, hour, minute and second. If they can endure it then we should be able to stand up and shout it from every roof top.

We should see the evil eye to eye and stand firm
We should hear the evil of what our children are telling us
We should speak the evil because the monster's are hoping we keep our mouths shut
I don't post much but my heart is hurting for our children.

Monkey hugs

This is wonderful ..Thank You.
I do not own this forum, But if I did,
This would be the moto for the monkeys to remember and post by.

Nicely said, Edward - I could not agree more. (I know, I know - you're shocked! LOL)

Thank you for posting that, Stacey - beautifully worded, an important reminder, and timely indeed. Perfect.