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Author Topic: Sandra Cantu #4 4/27/09 -  (Read 517122 times)
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lonemonkey
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« Reply #400 on: May 14, 2009, 01:26:27 PM »

This DUDE'S pictures & website are still up and posted on the SCHOOL'S WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Snipped:
http://www.stockton.k12.ca.us/schools/elmwood/06/music/Default.htm
And
http://cbs13.com/breakingnews/stockton.child.pornography.2.1008811.html

A Stockton elementary school music teacher has been arrested for possession of child pornography.

  Hal WillenBorg

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lonemonkey
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« Reply #401 on: May 14, 2009, 01:48:49 PM »

For those not living in California or don't know ...
Stockton is a 20-30 minute drive to Tracy---->  So now we have ANOTHER accused teacher.
That makes :
1 PE Teacher
1 Sunday School Teacher
1 Music Teacher
 Something FUNKY is going on!!!!

Snipped:
http://www.recordnet.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090514/A_NEWS02/905140327/-1/A_NEWS06

An Elmwood Elementary School music teacher was arrested Wednesday morning after police allegedly found a large amount of child pornography in his home.

Stockton police received a tip Monday that Harold Willenborg, 47, had an interest in child pornography

This DUDE'S pictures & website are still up and posted on the SCHOOL'S WEBSITE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Snipped:
http://www.stockton.k12.ca.us/schools/elmwood/06/music/Default.htm
And
http://cbs13.com/breakingnews/stockton.child.pornography.2.1008811.html

A Stockton elementary school music teacher has been arrested for possession of child pornography.

  Hal WillenBorg


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Tracygirl
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« Reply #402 on: May 14, 2009, 01:55:05 PM »

Heck I don't know but in my opinion they need to ARREST these people so we know who they are! Call me nuts but it would make it a bit easier to protect children if we knew exactly who to protect them from. In that trailor park is a man who works with children everyday at his martial arts studio, is he one? Slayder goes to schools and does assemblies with the snakes and so on, is he one? He also has a disabled child, does this person need protecting? 

I wonder  when they say, it made it a challenging environment, they meant it when they were investigating Sandra murder and abduction?
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lonemonkey
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« Reply #403 on: May 14, 2009, 02:03:11 PM »

Heck I don't know but in my opinion they need to ARREST these people so we know who they are! Call me nuts but it would make it a bit easier to protect children if we knew exactly who to protect them from. In that trailor park is a man who works with children everyday at his martial arts studio, is he one? Slayder goes to schools and does assemblies with the snakes and so on, is he one? He also has a disabled child, does this person need protecting? 

I wonder  when they say, it made it a challenging environment, they meant it when they were investigating Sandra murder and abduction?

I know what you mean TracyGirl!
What did they mean by that?
Hmmmmmm.
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JessStar
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« Reply #404 on: May 14, 2009, 02:22:14 PM »


As usual Tracy & Jess Monkeys
You are ON IT!!!!!
Whoa....
Here we GO.------>
Snipped:
Bolded by me
"There were other trailers in the trailer park where child pornography was found, and it was a challenging environment," a source close to the investigation told KCRA 3.

Challenging in what way???
Ohhhh Blinnnnnk!
...lol...

I can guess what he/she meant, but that would be of no value.  It really depends on the context in which the statement was made and what "environment" the "source" was talking about.  Unfortunately, KCRA chose not to tell us that.  So, to me, it falls into the category of "unsupported editorializing" which I choose to ignore because it could mean anything from "The room we were working in had no air conditioning, so having a bunch of us pouring over computer hard drives in a 110 degree room without air conditioning presented a real challenging environment" to whatever.

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« Reply #405 on: May 14, 2009, 02:50:21 PM »

Two thoughts this afternoon. . . .

If something is true, there will normally be more than one source reporting it.  I always try to have two independent sources before believing anything to be a fact.  Very rarely is anything a true exclusive known only to one reporter.

Secondly, isn't child porn illegal not only to produce but to possess?  Isn't that a federal offense?  Shouldn't the FBI be working on these people as it is usually sent across state lines via the internet or is this just contained locally?  In any event, isn't even the possession of child pronography highly illegal?  It sure is where I live.
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JessStar
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« Reply #406 on: May 14, 2009, 03:41:39 PM »

Two thoughts this afternoon. . . .

If something is true, there will normally be more than one source reporting it.  I always try to have two independent sources before believing anything to be a fact.  Very rarely is anything a true exclusive known only to one reporter.

Secondly, isn't child porn illegal not only to produce but to possess?  Isn't that a federal offense?  Shouldn't the FBI be working on these people as it is usually sent across state lines via the internet or is this just contained locally?  In any event, isn't even the possession of child pronography highly illegal?  It sure is where I live.

VERY good points, Anna.  You're right--one needs to be suspicious about exclusives.

With regard to the legal issue, again, you're right on.  Both federal and state statutes criminalize the mere possession of child pornography.  However, the federal government typically does not get involved until there is a demonstrated "federal connection."  That federal connection is typically the use of the wires or mails to transmit or receive it through interstate connections anywhere within the chain of distribution.  In other words, the "suspect" need not have received it through interstate connections.  He or she could have received it from his or her neighbor using a CD Rom, thumb drive, or any other media.  There's no obvious federal connection that way.  But it becomes a federal crime if anyone within the chain of distribution used interstate connections.  So if someone from Washington (hypothetically, of course), produced it, put it on a CD, drove to California, and handed it to John Doe in Tracy, who then handed it to to his neighbor, Melissa Doe (names being purely fictitious, any similarity being mere coincidence), Melissa Doe has committed a federal offense by receiving and possessing child pornography that was transmitted interstate, even though she received it from her next door neighbor.  But if Melissa Doe produced it (again, hypothetically, fictitious, coincidence . . .) and handed the CD to her neighbor, MD committed no federal offense.  So the interstate connection can be difficult to prove when it appears the production or transmission is limited to local citizens.  Therefore, these offenses are often left to the locals to investigate and prosecute.  That's what I'd like to see changed.  We need the power of the federal government to address the war on our children.

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JessStar
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« Reply #407 on: May 14, 2009, 03:48:08 PM »

Two thoughts this afternoon. . . .

If something is true, there will normally be more than one source reporting it.  I always try to have two independent sources before believing anything to be a fact.  Very rarely is anything a true exclusive known only to one reporter.

Secondly, isn't child porn illegal not only to produce but to possess?  Isn't that a federal offense?  Shouldn't the FBI be working on these people as it is usually sent across state lines via the internet or is this just contained locally?  In any event, isn't even the possession of child pronography highly illegal?  It sure is where I live.

VERY good points, Anna.  You're right--one needs to be suspicious about exclusives.

With regard to the legal issue, again, you're right on.  Both federal and state statutes criminalize the mere possession of child pornography.  However, the federal government typically does not get involved until there is a demonstrated "federal connection."  That federal connection is typically the use of the wires or mails to transmit or receive it through interstate connections anywhere within the chain of distribution.  In other words, the "suspect" need not have received it through interstate connections.  He or she could have received it from his or her neighbor using a CD Rom, thumb drive, or any other media.  There's no obvious federal connection that way.  But it becomes a federal crime if anyone within the chain of distribution used interstate connections.  So if someone from Washington (hypothetically, of course), produced it, put it on a CD, drove to California, and handed it to John Doe in Tracy, who then handed it to to his neighbor, Melissa Doe (names being purely fictitious, any similarity being mere coincidence), Melissa Doe has committed a federal offense by receiving and possessing child pornography that was transmitted interstate, even though she received it from her next door neighbor.  But if Melissa Doe produced it (again, hypothetically, fictitious, coincidence . . .) and handed the CD to her neighbor, MD committed no federal offense.  So the interstate connection can be difficult to prove when it appears the production or transmission is limited to local citizens.  Therefore, these offenses are often left to the locals to investigate and prosecute.  That's what I'd like to see changed.  We need the power of the federal government to address the war on our children.



Sorry, allow me to make this one last note.  The "interstate connection" does not require "scienter," which means that the "transmitter" does not have to know that he/she is transmitting interstate.  So, expanding on my hypothetical above, if M Doe emails the contraband to her neighbor, and the email passes through a server located in another state, the interstate connection is a slam dunk, even though M Doe's intent was to just send it across the street.
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Wyks
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« Reply #408 on: May 14, 2009, 03:55:35 PM »

JessStar, thank you so much for your take on things!  Doesn't matter to me when/if you get long-winded, cuz I learn SO much from what you say.  For me it's like.. when JessStar speaks....... I listen.  heeeee     Thank you for choosing to spend some of your time in here with us and helping with all of this. 

It's very helpful too for me and others who've said the same thing, when you help to explain legal proceedings, possible reasons why something is said/done and likely meant by that, etc.  So often to me, the legal system seems like a mysterious group of folks who speak their own language, set apart from others, who have to jump at their command.  When two of my sons were in trouble with the law I felt so frustrated in not even being able to understand the proceedings, let alone the language the attorneys/judge were using. 

So it helps a GREAT deal having someone such as yourself help to explain the legal aspects where possible, as they come along in this case.  Thank you so much! 
     
    
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« Reply #409 on: May 14, 2009, 04:11:47 PM »

I'm so glad I didn't post that article from that newsite I had never heard of before. My daughter told me about it and thought the people on this forum would be interested in reading that. After I looked at it, I thought I better not, and would wait to see if this was reputable. I see it was not. It seemed very strange to me that Sandra's father would be saying those things  Thanks for all the info and that list you made Wyks, and to you JessStar for your legal knowledge. I haven't been posting a lot on this thread, but I do keep tabs on what is happening. Could someone tell me when Melissa is due back in the court room again, is it the end of the month? Thanks.

You're welcome, No Rose!  I dunno whether Sandra's father would say those things or not, but am thinking that if he did, it was likely meant for those close to him to hear/know, not something someone would say to the media, for example.  More like whisperings to those he knows and trusts, kind of thing. 

I do know that in reality, it could be dangerous for someone to say such things publically, could set the need for revenge into motion, one reason for the need for 'protective custody', etc.  Not so sure that the news agency realized that by broadcasting that as his words, could be setting him up as a target by those who wouldn't want that info 'out there', IF in fact there is such a group of folks.   

On the other hand, some who have been victims in the past, who are tired of running and hiding the truth, get to the point of saying 'enuff is enuff', and say such things for the whole world to hear/know/realize.  Aware of the danger in doing such a thing, however knowing that once out, there is safety in numbers.  With the whole world watching, the 'bad folks' very likely would hesitate in making any move for revenge against that person. 
   
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« Reply #410 on: May 14, 2009, 04:52:17 PM »

Heck I don't know but in my opinion they need to ARREST these people so we know who they are! Call me nuts but it would make it a bit easier to protect children if we knew exactly who to protect them from. In that trailor park is a man who works with children everyday at his martial arts studio, is he one? Slayder goes to schools and does assemblies with the snakes and so on, is he one? He also has a disabled child, does this person need protecting? 

I wonder  when they say, it made it a challenging environment, they meant it when they were investigating Sandra murder and abduction?

I wonder also if the Minister and his wife's computer was one of the computers on which that they found the pornography?  They did take their computer the grandma stated. It would not suprise me at all.
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« Reply #411 on: May 14, 2009, 04:52:56 PM »

Heck I don't know but in my opinion they need to ARREST these people so we know who they are! Call me nuts but it would make it a bit easier to protect children if we knew exactly who to protect them from. In that trailor park is a man who works with children everyday at his martial arts studio, is he one? Slayder goes to schools and does assemblies with the snakes and so on, is he one? He also has a disabled child, does this person need protecting? 

I wonder  when they say, it made it a challenging environment, they meant it when they were investigating Sandra murder and abduction?

I wonder also if the Minister and his wife's computer was one of the computers on which that they found the pornography?  They did take their computer, or so the grandma stated. It would not surprise me at all.
typo..sorry
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JessStar
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« Reply #412 on: May 14, 2009, 05:02:08 PM »

JessStar, thank you so much for your take on things!  Doesn't matter to me when/if you get long-winded, cuz I learn SO much from what you say.  For me it's like.. when JessStar speaks....... I listen.  heeeee     Thank you for choosing to spend some of your time in here with us and helping with all of this. 

It's very helpful too for me and others who've said the same thing, when you help to explain legal proceedings, possible reasons why something is said/done and likely meant by that, etc.  So often to me, the legal system seems like a mysterious group of folks who speak their own language, set apart from others, who have to jump at their command.  When two of my sons were in trouble with the law I felt so frustrated in not even being able to understand the proceedings, let alone the language the attorneys/judge were using. 

So it helps a GREAT deal having someone such as yourself help to explain the slegal aspects where possible, as they come along in this case.  Thank you so much! 
     
    


Wyks, you're making me blush.  But you are so very welcome.  I'm glad I can add something of value. Of course, what I say is only one attorney's point of view.   

I truly understand the frustration with the legal/judicial system.  It is like a different language.  I learned that in law school.  I was always a pretty good writer and speaker.  I was blessed in undergraduate school with a professor that tested only by essay, and who was a stickler for writing "perfection."  I took every class he offered because he leaned on me all the time.  So when I entered law school and took "legal writing" and trial/appellate advocacy, I thought, this will be a cake walk.  Boy was I wrong.  The experience really humbled me.  I quickly learned that in undergraduate school, you write and speak creatively for a general audience.  That's the antithesis of legal writing and speaking.  In law school and the legal profession, you're not writing for or speaking to a general audience--you're audience is a judge or jury.  So you write and speak logically, forcefully, and persuasively.  There's an INCREDIBLE difference between the two.  That difference is foreign to most non-lawyers because the "default" is to read and understand things from the "creative" point of view.  After all, that's how we learned to do it from grade school up.

Here's a fun exercise that kind of drives all this home.  What point do you think the writer of this sentence is trying to make:  "John said it was dark out when they left the movie theater after seeing the movie, 'Star Wars, Episode II'."

You don't have to answer the question, because we'd be flooded with different interpretations.     In fact, that seemingly innocuous little sentence can be interpreted probably 20+ different ways.  The point of the exercise is that most people will focus on the word "dark" because, as creative thinkers, the sentence draws us there.

Sorry for rambling. I'm sure all of this is OT.   




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Wyks
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« Reply #413 on: May 14, 2009, 05:03:14 PM »


<respectfully snipped>

We need the power of the federal government to address the war on our children.


Exactly!!  And this has been attempted by some, God love em. 

I will add the following as an FYI only, folks can go to the link and read or not, become aware or not.  Personally, this whole thing is too close to home for me (emotionally) and I get drained and overwhelmed easily these days.  That's mainly why I'm not posting as much or even answering emails, in case some are wondering, it's nothing personal to anyone else.  Am taking care of me and stepping back as needed. 

So am just saying, I don't have the energy to discuss this right now, nor do I want to get into a debate with anyone in here or disrupt the thread, or have to defend against accusations from anyone for having put on my tin-foil hat (as in conspiracy etc). 

To the mods, IMO this is not off-topic, (hope you feel the same way, if not then I know you'll delete as needed) as we are discussing some aspects of this that might pertain to this case. 

This concerns an attempt to get the federal government to step in and address the war on our children.  In particular, sev right here in the good ole US of A, and what the CIA did ... instead. 

-------------

Snipped from the link that follows...

"  1. A case of obvious child neglect/abuse involving child pedophile sexual abuse/child pornography/Satanic cult ritualistic abuse wherein the perpetrators were caught directly in the act by law enforcement, arrested on the basis of irrefutable evidence at the scene, and faced serious charges which typically bring sentences of decades in prison.

   2. Search warrants were obtained for the "Finders" cult office in Washington, DC and a complete search was enacted by law enforcement which provided irrefutable pictures, movies and documents of such abuse/neglect evidence and access to the confidential arrest reports on the "Finders" cult from the arrests in Tallahassee which occurred only a day earlier (suggesting very high level connections to US intelligence in and of itself.)

   3. All investigation of the "Finders" cult by the FBI, US Customs and local law enforcement was ordered stopped by the US Justice Department on the grounds of "national security" and the matter of the "Finders" cult was turned over to the Central Intelligence Agency as an "internal security matter," since the "Finders" is and has been a domestic and international covert operation of the Central Intelligence Agency.

   4. Any and all investigation of the "Finders" was immediately stopped, all evidence was supressed and denied, and the abused children were released back to the adult perpetrators who had been arrested "in the act" and the CIA resumed its ongoing covert operation of the "Finders" cult which is used to procure and produce.

To date only one media outlet has dared publish anything about this (US News)."

More from the following link, and:
**warning for some of the language**

http://www.voxfux.com/features/cia_child_sex.html
 
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Wyks
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« Reply #414 on: May 14, 2009, 05:08:40 PM »

Sorry, forgot to add that for those who'd like other sources re what I just posted, simply google " The Finders ". 

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« Reply #415 on: May 14, 2009, 05:38:29 PM »

I guess a couple of reasons for my posting the above, is that while LE/FBI/CIA investigates, accumulates evidence and/or proof enough to make arrests and bring charges.... many innocent children continue to be abused and suffer.  Altho understandable that the authorities want to nail everyone involved, and this takes time, what about the children? 

And when one LE agency realizes this is totally out of their element and goes higher up for help, time marches on, more children are added by the perps, more are abused and others continue to be abused.  Now the FBI is involved, and one would hope that the children would be rescued, the abuse would stop.  Ermmm no, they have to do their own investigation. 

And then the FBI realizes this is totally out of their element and goes higher up for help, to the CIA.  Time marches on, more children have been added, and etc. 

At any point is the public made aware of what is going on, what is being done?  NOOOOOOOO!  That would cause a frenzy.  It would cause a public outrage.  It would cause the public to rise up and take things into their own hands and put a stop to the abuse at once!  The authorities do not want an out-of-control enraged public.  So it becomes "covert" and hush-hush.  To the point that the unsuspecting public has NO clue. 

And that's IF there is no one in any of the agencies involved in the investigation actually involved in the abuse of our children in the first place.  Cuz if there is, the investigation will come to a screeching halt just because of that.  Please don't think for a minute that doesn't happen, cuz it does.  Yes in our local LE depts and court systems, yes in our FBI, yes in our CIA. 

My point?  What happens to our children while all this is going on?  How many children were abused before LE even found out about T60, for example?  How many have been abused since they found out?  And how many more will be abused before they finish the investigation, if ever? 

At every level of authority, hands are often tied, evidence is often 'lost' .. oops, delay delay delay.  Some delay for good reason, some not.  Yes I am jaded.  It seems that bringing this matter even as high as the CIA still does not stop the abuse.  It still continues. 

What can be done then?  IMO <------- it's going to have to take public awareness, public outrage, and even a public uprising if necessary.  And that's exactly what the authorities and the media suppress and are trying to avoid. 

At the cost of the very ones they are trying to advocate for.  Our precious children. 
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« Reply #416 on: May 14, 2009, 06:10:16 PM »

(also respectfully snipped"

What can be done then?  IMO <------- it's going to have to take public awareness, public outrage, and even a public uprising if necessary.  And that's exactly what the authorities and the media suppress and are trying to avoid. 

At the cost of the very ones they are trying to advocate for.  Our precious children. 


Wyks, I am soooooooooo with you.  I have been working on a few ideas, which is why I haven't posted the letter I mentioned some time ago.    They may have been tried before, I don't know.  There's one pseudo "legislative" angle that I'm focusing on that I don't think has been tried.  But even if it has, that won't stop me, and I promise it's coming for 2 reasons.  First, I will need the support of as many people as possible to get it passed.  And second, I shed (and continue to shed) too many tears this time around to not do something.  Too, too, too many tears.


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« Reply #417 on: May 14, 2009, 06:17:22 PM »

(also respectfully snipped"

What can be done then?  IMO <------- it's going to have to take public awareness, public outrage, and even a public uprising if necessary.  And that's exactly what the authorities and the media suppress and are trying to avoid. 

At the cost of the very ones they are trying to advocate for.  Our precious children. 


Wyks, I am soooooooooo with you.  I have been working on a few ideas, which is why I haven't posted the letter I mentioned some time ago.    They may have been tried before, I don't know.  There's one pseudo "legislative" angle that I'm focusing on that I don't think has been tried.  But even if it has, that won't stop me, and I promise it's coming for 2 reasons.  First, I will need the support of as many people as possible to get it passed.  And second, I shed (and continue to shed) too many tears this time around to not do something.  Too, too, too many tears.




O/T and apoligies mods -- Jess - IIRC you are an attorney - do you do federal law? if so can you email me at cindygillie@yahoo.com - TIA
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« Reply #418 on: May 14, 2009, 06:49:58 PM »

(also respectfully snipped"

What can be done then?  IMO <------- it's going to have to take public awareness, public outrage, and even a public uprising if necessary.  And that's exactly what the authorities and the media suppress and are trying to avoid. 

At the cost of the very ones they are trying to advocate for.  Our precious children. 


Wyks, I am soooooooooo with you.  I have been working on a few ideas, which is why I haven't posted the letter I mentioned some time ago.    They may have been tried before, I don't know.  There's one pseudo "legislative" angle that I'm focusing on that I don't think has been tried.  But even if it has, that won't stop me, and I promise it's coming for 2 reasons.  First, I will need the support of as many people as possible to get it passed.  And second, I shed (and continue to shed) too many tears this time around to not do something.  Too, too, too many tears.


Count me in JessStar, I'll stand with you.  I can even name names, give dates, towns, states, places, and the particulars if need be .. or not .. but focus on the overall general sense of things.  Am ready to do what it takes.  I don't think I have anymore tears.  sigh. 
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« Reply #419 on: May 14, 2009, 11:08:38 PM »

Me, too!!!!
Monkey Hugs...
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