Natalee Case Discussion #817 4/22/09 - 4/30/09

[Tamikosmom]

Some do not get it!!

It is not the disappearance of an 18 year old American citizen under suspicions circumstances on the Island of Aruba that Americans can not let go of after almost four years.  Crime happens everywhere.  Beth Holloway understood this.

It is the perception that conflicts of interest within the Aruban investigation ... prevented justice from prevailing ... justice that Natalee Holloway was intitled to under Dutch law.
 
+++++++

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Pages 209/210:  Bad things happen everywhere.  But the difference we need to consider when something bad happens outside the country is the help available for the victims and their families.  When we leave these borders, we leave behind all the privileges and rights we're all accustomed to and often take for granted.  We have expectations that there will be a safety net of law-abiding official, no matter where we travel, or that our US embassy will come to our rescue.  But that's terribly naive ...


NANCY GRACE - October 4, 2005

GRACE: … Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "EL DIARIO": Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html

[Tamikosmom]

Magnolia

It certainly was not a 24 hour flu that you and texasmom caught.  It appears that bug has hung around for most of the week.

Take care of yourself and ... have a nice weekend.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Good Morning Monkeys.......

[Tamikosmom]

Could it be that Aruban authories implicated innocent security guards in an attempt to distance Joran van der Sloot and the Kalpoe brothers from implication in the happenings encompassing the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

Anyways ...  it was all in vain.  Beth Holloway could not be appeased ... her voice could not be silenced.

++++++

THE DETAINMENT OF THE SECURITY GUARDS

BETH HOLLOWAY

'Rita Cosby' - Dec. 6, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY‘S MOTHER:  Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.

And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one ...

Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/

.
Fox News - June 12, 2005
Mom: Three Young Detainees 'Know What Happened' to Missing Teen

Beth Holloway Twitty (search) said Aruban authorities should pressure the young men to reveal what they know about the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway (search).

"All three of those boys know what happened to her," Holloway Twitty said during a 45-minute interview with The Associated Press in her room at the Holiday Inn, the same hotel where her daughter was staying before she disappeared on May 30. "They all know what they did with her that night."

Holloway Twitty, 44, declined to say what she thought the boys had done or whether she thought her daughter was still alive. She also said she thought that two former hotel security guards detained in connection with Holloway's disappearance were innocent and should be released.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159285,00.html

.
NORAINA PIETERSZ - ARUBAN ATTORNEY

Fox News - June 12, 2005
Mom: Three Young Detainees 'Know What Happened' to Missing Teen

Defense lawyers for the former security guards said there wasn't enough evidence to continue holding them.

"This is turning into a game, an illogical investigation," said Noraina Pietersz, the attorney representing Antonius "Mickey" John, 30. John and Abraham Jones, 28, had been detained a week as of Sunday, and have denied any connection to Holloway. "The prosecution is pretending it has information that we don't have."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159285,00.html

[Keepthefaith]

"This is turning into a game, an illogical investigation," said Noraina Pietersz

For some it still is a game..LOGIC DICTATES!

[Tamikosmom]

"This is turning into a game, an illogical investigation," said Noraina Pietersz

For some it still is a game..LOGIC DICTATES!

 

You bet Keepthefaith.

Hubby and I are off to do some grocery shopping.  YUK!

I offered to make a list and ... he could do it.  No Way!  Hey ... my neighbour's retired hubby likes to do the grocery shopping.

Have a good day.

Later, Janet
9:40 AM

[Keepthefaith]

"This is turning into a game, an illogical investigation," said Noraina Pietersz

For some it still is a game..LOGIC DICTATES!

 

You bet Keepthefaith.

Hubby and I are off to do some grocery shopping.  YUK!

I offered to make a list and ... he could do it.  No Way!  Hey ... my neighbour's retired hubby likes to do the grocery shopping.

Have a good day.

Later, Janet
9:40 AM

Make sure you get some Froot Loops for those attempting to still play games..

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER

When detentions overlapped ... one of the security guards had a conversation with Deepak Kalpoe and ... the conversation revealed that Paulus van der Sloot was a participant in the collaboration of the Holiday Inn drop off account.

Considering the Holiday Inn drop off account was relayed to Natalee Holloway's Mother and Stepfather on the morning of May 31, 2005 ... the collaboration must have taken place on May 30, 2005 ... the day of the morning Natalee Holloway went missing.

Why has a witness statement taken by Aruban Law Enforcement never emerged?

+++++++++

SECURITY GUARD - MICKEY JOHN

'On the Record w/ Greta' - June 29, 2005

Former Aruba Suspect Alleges Plot!

MICKEY JOHN, FORMER SUSPECT: ... He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: The father, too?

JOHN: All of them. They made up...

VAN SUSTEREN: Did he specifically say — Deepak specifically say to you the father was part of that?

JOHN: Deepak told me that he and the family sit down and they made up the story.

VAN SUSTEREN: So family and not father?

JOHN: Well, I don't know who the family consists of. But I know the father was involved, according to him.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161044,00.html

[Tamikosmom]

REMINDER

2007

THE OCEAN SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

In mid December of 2007 a crew of Americans on board a vessel named The Persistence begins a search for Natalee Holloway's remains in the waters off Aruba.  On Christmas Day a discovery is made while sonar scanning the ocean floor.  The discovery was a large fish trap.  On December 29th an ROV is ultilized to capture images of what is contained within.

Kyle Kingman, the ROV operator and remote analysis on board the Persistence, came to the conclusion that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been placed within that trap.

However, on a December 30, 2007, Aruban divers claimed that their investigation revealed there was nothing related to the Natalee Holloway case inside the trap.

John Silvetti, the Project Lead on board the Persistence, accepted the words of the Aruban divers unconditionally.   
______


The Persistence - Key Personnal

John Silvetti - Project Lead and Key Contributor- Responsible for overall project planning and development. Owner of Marine Surveys, LLC . Donated the R/V Persistence for the search effort.
http://silvettigroup.com/

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising.

Kyle Kingman: Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.

Kyle Kingman:  When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection.

Kyle Kingman:  John (Silvetti) is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

[Tamikosmom]

REMINDER

2008

THE RECOVERY DIVE

On January 7, 2008 Aruban divers sampled and recovered the contents of the large fish trap disovered with sonar on the ocean floor off the coast of Aruba on Christmas Day, 2007 by the ROV operator and remote analyst on board the Persistence.

The crew of the Persistence were not involved in the recovery process ... only the Arubans.

________


In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were deliberately placed there after the divers sampled the contents. The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

[oldiebutgoodie]

Oooo... I knew there was something missing this morning! Thanks for reminding me! Gonna go make me a cup of coffee. BRB.

[oldiebutgoodie]

GRACE: … Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

JOSSY MANSUR, MANAGING EDITOR, "EL DIARIO": Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html

Before Paulus uprooted his family from the Netherlands and moved them to Aruba, he was involved in finding legal protections for Dutch politicians who were involved in a pedophile/kiddie porn scandal in the Netherlands. Some very important people were involved. Paulus, in many more ways than one, knows where the bodies are buried.

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER

In November, 2007, ten Aruban attorneys concluded that the Aruban prosecutor had sufficient evidence to rearrest Joran van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe on suspicion of involvement in the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005 when Natalee Holloway went missing.

However, less that one month later all three suspects were released.  A judge deemed that evidence did not justify the rearrest.

How did the Aruban prosecutor and ten Aruban attorneys get it so wrong?

Could John Q. Kelly have been right on when he referred to the rearrests as nothing but a "Dog and Pony Show" ... a "Dog and Pony Show" to give America the impression the Natalee Holloway investigation was going forward?
_________


CATCH AND RELEASE


CONVINCED

'ABC New' - November 26, 2007

Hans Mos, Aruba's chief prosecutor, told ABC News he believes the the new evidence makes the case against the three men stronger than it was two years.

"We are convinced if we had had this evidence we have now they would not have been released by the court at that time," Mos said.

http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3912737


CATCH

'On the Record w/ Greta' - November 27, 2007

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Breaking news from Aruba, Joran van der Sloot ordered to stay behind bars for at least eight more days. Now, the Kalpoe brothers already got the same news last week. Now, all three suspects were re-arrested. Why? The prosecutor has now charged all three with voluntary manslaughter of Natalee Holloway.

HANS MOS: And this decision to re-arrest these three suspects was a decision taken by 10 lawyers, by 10 lawyers sitting around a table (INAUDIBLE) whole afternoon, being presented the new material.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,313168,00.html


RELEASED

'ABC News' - December 21, 2007

A suspect in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway never mentioned her death in an online chat, his lawyer said Friday, contradicting Aruban prosecutors who called the comment key new evidence in the case. The chat log fell far short of justifying the arrest of Deepak Kalpoe, one of three men seen with the American teen the night of her disappearance, said attorney Ronald Wix.

A court in the Dutch Caribbean island agreed and quickly released Kalpoe, along with brother Satish and a third suspect, Joran van der Sloot. Now, authorities should leave the three men alone, Wix told reporters.

http://www.wjla.com/news/stories/1207/482539.html


DOG AND PONY SHOW?

'On the Record w/ Greta' - December 4, 2007

Holloway Attorney: 'Extraordinarily Painful'

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him (Hans Mo) Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY:  I can say it with 99 percent.  ... I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made.  And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

[Magnolia]

Janet,
Thank you for your persistence in posting the reminders.
I am not good for much except knitting goat wool socks.
I am afraid that the posting of private information and the
follow-ups have done exactly what was intended....stop the
discussion of Natalee's case.
It makes me so sad.
 

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,
Thank you for your persistence in posting the reminders.
I am not good for much except knitting goat wool socks.
I am afraid that the posting of private information and the
follow-ups have done exactly what was intended....stop the
discussion of Natalee's case.
It makes me so sad.
 

Magnolia ... you are welcome.  Maybe you could knit my DIL's mother a pull over sweater with a matching cardigan lickity split for a special event she and hubby are attending tomorrow evening.  She had search  all the shops in her area ... nothing. 

Anyways ... as long as there are guests in the rafters reading ... maybe one of them will be in a position to make a difference.  That is what my reminders are all about.

I miss everybody.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

Janet,
Thank you for your persistence in posting the reminders.
I am not good for much except knitting goat wool socks.
I am afraid that the posting of private information and the
follow-ups have done exactly what was intended....stop the
discussion of Natalee's case.
It makes me so sad.
 

KEEPTHEFAITH IS GOING NOWHERE.........JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY....

Is anyone at any other Forums talking about the FRAUD of the pond search orchestrated by the almighty CapsLockGizzard??

[Tamikosmom]

According to the security guards' attorney ... tactical arrests are not legal under the justice system in Aruba.
______

SECURITY GUARDS - TACTICAL ARRESTS?

RUBEN TRAPENBERG - SPOKESPERSON FOR ARUBAN GOVERNMENT

FOX News - June 11, 2005

Aruban PM Seeks Answers

Aruba Attorney General Caren Janssen (search) said the three were arrested at 6 a.m. Thursday. She refused to say whether they were connected to the two men already being detained in the disappearance.

"It is likely it may have been a police strategy to let these three men go to gather more information," Ruben Trapenberg, spokesman for the Aruba government, told FOX News Thursday morning.  "The three witnesses gave information about the two guys [already in custody] and that is why they were held. If one of those two has an alibi, then the story [given by the three witnesses] doesn't fit and therefore the two may then be released depending on the proof."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159006,00.html

.
NORAINA PIETERSZ - ARUBAN ATTORNEY

'Scarborough Country' - June 14, 2005

SCARBOROUGH: But to those of us in America, this seems so obvious that for 11 days they let the prime suspect run free, simply because he was politically connected. Are you willing to say that that may have played a role on your suspect landing in jail, instead of the main suspect who was seen with this young woman leaving the bar the night she disappeared?

NORAINA PIETERSZ, ATTORNEY FOR MICKEY JOHN: You know, I have heard a lot of rumors about some strategic plan or something like that. I don‘t want to believe so, because, even according to the Aruban law, it is not allowed to take in an innocent person as a suspect, whereas you might have some other suspect walking out there.  And that was the case with my client. Three—three people were heard as witnesses. They were witnesses from the beginning.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8231452/

[Lifesong]

I'm Here!!

 


I've been trying to read and stay caught up, it's been a busy week!!


Happy Friday, Everyone!  Hotping, good luck to your grandson!  You know...if you have a big enough cooler you could purchase a really, big fish and take it....      

Janet, I love the reminders!!


    

[Tamikosmom]

When Karin Janssen's words are considered ... could a rumor be where it is at in regards to your contention that belongings of the MB students were found at the residences of the security guards.
++++++

KARIN JANSSEN - ARUBAN PROSECUTOR

FOX News - June 5, 2005

Two Arrested in Disappearance

Janssen declined to provide specific charges, saying the case will go before a judge within 48 hours to determine whether they can be legally held. She said authorities had not found any of Holloway's belongings at the suspects' homes.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158622,00.html

[Keepthefaith]

jury is not needed. the name is correspondin his ip. the place that i figure out was just a mather of time. i mail allot to and with kees van der spek. he knows. and as i said i post to klaasend if nessesary when im not here. i also don't believe joran go's to the instutution in den dolder nl. i think that a quest reader is a (close) friend of joran, so this potencial friend can keep track. note that im only here to help and keep you guys informed of any actions here in nl. and that i am  a friend of kouwe family. im back tomorrow.

Hello DiSetti. I read you know the kouwe family. Maybe you mean the Van der Kouwe family. I happen to be a Van der Kouwe, actually the father of Marlies. Do I have the honour to have met you before, or know you otherwise?

Thanks.  These games are not fun anymore or amusing.  I hope you and your family are doing well.

The cryptic messages ... the riddles ... are nothing but distractions intented to focus attention away from the truth ... the truth about Kyle Kingman's own words in regards to happenings encompassing the contents of the trap ... the trap discovered in Aruban waters by the Persistence undertaking.

Janet

BUMP


What are your thoughts on Disetti Bastibro?