Natalee Case Discussion #817 4/22/09 - 4/30/09

[Anna]

And PLEASE don't anybody assume that Jug actually read any email he may have received.

I suspect he is inundated with all kinds of nonsense and also that he just doesn't bother having learned that the majority of it is inaccurate at the least.

[Tamikosmom]

PART THREE

In Kyle Kingman's email to Kermit ... the underlying threat of legal action is implied and ... understood perfectly.  However ... the threat is denied by Kyle in his email to Jug Twitty.

Janet

+++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - JUG TWITTY

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December

Kyle Kingman:  I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN - EMAIL TO KERMIT

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #786 12/17/08 -
« Reply #540 on: December 19, 2008, 06:15:18 PM »

Kyle sent me this today[/b]

Kermit,
 
You and the others agreed to a statement of confidentiality and nondisclosure at FB.  Before I posted any information, I posted a copyright notice at the very start which disallowed ANY and ALL of my posts, intellectual property, or pictures to leave the spot they were posted.  Everyone, including yourself, acknowledged this affirmatively. A lawyer said that ownership of that posted material cannot be transferred by a general claim of copyright such as a claim made on the front page of a website, or even by verbal consent. Written agreement, meaning a signed agreement, is required for the post to be owned by the site owner. Without a signed agreement, the poster owns the post. I did not give you permission, which I have stated many times when you were in violation. While the rest agreed, you violated this legal agreement repeatedly.  You have taken many of my posts, snipped what you wanted to put them into your context, and then shared them in a public forum.  The "public domain" notion only applies where someone has copyright ownership over the work in the first case and that ownership has lapsed. In that case, all posts can be freely reproduced by anyone, anywhere, without violating copyright law. However, this is clearly not the case.

I will state this with absolute clarity so there is no misunderstanding:
I have confirmed with the FBI on multiple instances that they have had possession of the ROV videos since very early on. I personally didn't send the ROV footage to them because another project lead had already at the first opportunity while we were still in Aruba. I sent all of the ROV screen shots directly to the FBI the day they were acquired.

I also got confirmation back in February by Tim Trahan who was in constant contact with Beth during the search that she indeed had all the information including the statements and has seen the ROV videos. I personally confirmed all of this with the senior FBI agent in charge of the investigation as well as given him my personal account of all that I witnessed and knew. They have this on record.  Birmingham is not the office in charge.
 
The information you have been spreading is not only inaccurate and a violation of a non-disclosure, it is slanderous and spreading misinformation. The damage it has done to my professional relationship with J. Silvetti is incalculable which has a direct effect on my ability to provide for my family, which includes my daughter named after Natalee.
 
I have neither publicly responded to your provocative antics, or retaliated with personal attacks in response to yours. I also have never threatened you as you publicly claimed.
 
I recently asked the senior FBI agent in charge how I should handle this situation which you have incited.   I thought his response was terrific. He replied: "Just sit back and keep quiet.  Kermit doesn't matter".

So this is exactly what I've done. I wrote this letter to you as a gesture of courtesy in hopes it would save you from further embarrassment from those who actually know something about this case.  I'm not referring to myself, rather the family and lead investigators who are out legitimately investigating this case in pursuit of justice right to the top.
 
Sincerely,
 Kyle

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4246.msg592482;topicseen#msg592482

[Anna]

Kyle said: "On the contrary, neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge Oh, noone has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself."

So is this why Kyle suddenly started sending stuff to JUG instead of the proper parties?

[Kermit]

Kyle said: "He {John Silvetti] did make several comments about trying to land some work through contacts he met while in Aruba. This alone isn't a conflict of interest, but it tainted his focus in my opinion.
June 29th Kyle flew to John Silvetti's house.

[Tamikosmom]

PART FOUR

All of the following Kyle Kingmans quotes to Jug Twitty in a December, 2008 email are challenged in the above posts.

Janet

+++++++

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ... 

Some exerts:

Quote
I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

Quote
About half of what said was opinion, which I clearly stated. They used a lot of my words taken out of context and confused opinions with facts.

Quote
I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't.

Quote
I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

Quote
I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

Quote
John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.

Quote
Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

[jen3560]

Those two freebirds are part of the give out personal information. Just so you know. I have screenshots of them doing it, just in case they think they are going to lie their way out of it!  What's that song - It's too late to apologize!

   Please tell me you are kidding!

I am not kidding in the slightest. They posted at CnG and I have the screenshots to prove it!

Now, as I am reading this, I see that they never told anyone at GM that Idstlou was lying about Kyle or Kyle to Idstlou.

[/quote]


I am SO sorry kerm honey!!!  I cannot believe they would stoop that low.  To think, they were once people that we trusted with everything. 

That they would discard their integrity all in favor of the "pond search hoax", even AFTER we had pointed out the many inconsistencies in the "witness" statement - to the point of giving out your personal info so their cohorts could try and find any little bit of dirt on you for Shooting The Messenger purposes is making me, very VERY angry.

I wish you had told me this sooner, my friend.

[Kermit]

Kyle said: "On the contrary, neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge Oh, noone has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself."

So is this why Kyle suddenly started sending stuff to JUG instead of the proper parties?

In Brazil, the preparations for the IMR contact with Petrobras, commencing in JUNE
(page 1 of 11)
http://www.deepocean.no/index.cfm?id=65087

Remember it was JUNE that those Petrobras talks/meetings were held in ARUBA

John Silvetti, according to Kyle, wanted to set up a business in Aruba.

[Kermit]

Kyle said: "I just want it out in a way that doesn't leave me as "the leak". I'm glad Beth has seen it and wants it out. The question is how to get "it out". I'm working on that. It is not considered evidence as it was deemed not case related by the authorities"

[jen3560]

PART FOUR

All of the following Kyle Kingmans quotes to Jug Twitty in a December, 2008 email are challenged in the above posts.

Janet

+++++++

ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December ... 

Some exerts:

Quote
I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

Quote
About half of what said was opinion, which I clearly stated. They used a lot of my words taken out of context and confused opinions with facts.

Quote
I didn't dodge questions. I didn't have this information. I disappeared from the board because I was working offshore of Norway in the North Sea and also in remote places in North Africa and Egypt. I was gone from July through September. When I came back, I logged into the forum and saw they were about to release this grand document containing basically everything I said or posted. Much of it I knew was incorrect and based on opinion. I didn't agree with this, knowing it was inaccurate and also it was understood that nothing I posted was to be made public. They pressured me to change my mind and I wouldn't.

Quote
I didn't threaten any of them. I said that I personally didn't want to get sued for breaking a confidentiality agreement with information ending up on the Internet. Them pushing it all out put me at risk legally and jeopardized my relationship with John (which is now destroyed over this). Also, this information did not belong posted on the Internet in the first place. It was a huge naive misjudgement on my part to trust this group enough to share it in confidence.

Quote
I said the FBI did a DNA analysis on the sample they received. They re-interpreted this as having found remains in the trap.

Quote
John wasn't refusing to give it any credence before inspection on Jan 7th, he was remaining objective and keeping focused. I said John wasn't convinced. He wasn't. He said he wouldn't be convinced unless he heard otherwise from the FBI.

Quote
Tim Miller went to Nicaragua on his own terms and Dateline followed him. Tim was chasing down the Nicaraguan lead. He wasn't removed from the Persistence.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191

Thank you Janet.

I cannot fathom that the people who have been attacking kermit and others have all been doing it based on this Bull Sh*t from Lisa.

Every single little thing he states can be proven to the contrary.  And has been.

I'm still trying to figure out who is the liar here - Kyle (boy, that would be dumb as everything stated as his words to us can be factually proven) or Lisa?

[Tamikosmom]

PART FIVE

It does not appear to me that Kyle Kingman in his own words is implying that he is in "awe" of John Silvetti in regards to the events encompassing the trap and its contents.  Lou ... I respectfully disagree.

Janet

++++++
 
ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

So it appears to me as though in March of 2008 Kyle is posting regret that the family was informed it was Natalee before they actually knew what was in the cage and he was in  "awe" of how John Silvetti conducted himself during the cage search.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191
 

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Imagine how I felt having found the trap. I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images.

Kyle Kingman:  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further.

Kyle Kingman: I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally do not feel we should disregard the trap or it's contents until we know how that trap got there and what the nature of its contents were IMO.

we know how that trap got there and what the nature of its contents were IMO.

[Kermit]

I am SO sorry kerm honey!!!  I cannot believe they would stoop that low.  To think, they were once people that we trusted with everything. 

That they would discard their integrity all in favor of the "pond search hoax", even AFTER we had pointed out the many inconsistencies in the "witness" statement - to the point of giving out your personal info so their cohorts could try and find any little bit of dirt on you for Shooting The Messenger purposes is making me, very VERY angry.

I wish you had told me this sooner, my friend.

Believe me, I was probably more shocked then anyone to see it with my own eyes from people that we trusted.
All because they want to protect Capslockwizard! Well, they don't even know the truth about all of that pond hoax - yet.
Operative word is .....yet. tick...tock....

[Kermit]

BEFORE Kyle approached Freebirds, he was trying to cut deals about the ROV images


Klye said: "I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level.
We met in mid-Feb about this already

Feb 14 Kyle is in US talking to Executives

[Kermit]

Quote from: LegallyLex on April 03, 2008, 07:42:52 PM John, a lot of BFN posters have asked me how much money would be needed to complete the search. Can you provide an estimate on what amount would be needed? John:
It is very difficult to say, since Louis has not selected a ROV vessel and we do not know how much of a humanitarian discount we can count on by the vessel and ROV owners, but my guess is that we will be looking at
around 1 million dollars

[Tamikosmom]

PART SIX

Kyle Kingman failed to realize when he made the decision to backtrack on his initial honorable intentions to expose the deception of John Silvetti who was project lead on the Persistence ... a private research group that was dedicated to expose the Aruban coverup agenda that has prevented justice from prevail for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 was not about to sit on info which revealed an American's involvement in furthering that coverup agenda.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMANS OWN WORDS - JUG TWITTY
 
ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December …

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN’S OWN WORDS - NATALEE FREEBIRDS
 
Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08: Since I got the go ahead from Tim (T), we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

 

[Kermit]

Who goes on an ocean search in a missing person's case, arrives/boards ship by Dec. 18th finds a target cage/trap like the one they were looking for by Dec. 29th, dives on it several times, THEN lets Aruba ONLY divers retrive the evidence on Jan 7 and has other targets they could check, but do not! Instead they meander around while sending the geophysicist boy to meet with Executives to try to sell the ROV images that contain only Hermit crabs according to one poster, can't get a deal for Hermit crabs photos and he returns to the ship, tries to obtain funds through donations, and then  March 1 announces they need another million dollars to which SM members start donating and they are going home and keep all thinks Holloway.

Kyle starts to find a way to get the information to Beth without John Silvetti's knowledge. So he can keep a foot in John Silvetti's pockets too. Remember, Kyle and Tim Tehran were allegedly trying to get meetings with Beth and also with a film crew!

Alls I know is Beth said she needed time to "digest" the images I emailed her.


 

[Tamikosmom]

THE ABOVE S/B PART SIX

Fixed.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Did someone say tick tock?     

[oldiebutgoodie]

Not that I want to interrupt anyone's train of thought here but is there any way to get this whole FBI poster on a T-shirt? PLEASE SEE:  http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm

[Tamikosmom]

PART SIX

Kyle Kingman failed to realize when he made the decision to backtrack on his initial honorable intentions to expose the deception of John Silvetti who was project lead on the Persistence ... a private research group that was dedicated to expose the Aruban coverup agenda that has prevented justice from prevail for Natalee Holloway since May 30, 2005 was not about to sit on info which revealed an American's involvement in furthering that coverup agenda.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMANS OWN WORDS - JUG TWITTY
 
ldstlou
Re: The Cage « Reply #157 on: March 19, 2009, 12:25:09 pm »

The last posts are taken from the e-mail that Kyle sent to Jug and I in December …

Kyle Kingman: I had questions which were very unsettling about what I had observed during the search including the events surrounding the trap inspection by the Aruban divers and how the samples were handled by ALE - solely Richardson. This made me very uneasy. It was unsettling and I had no one to talk about it with. The Freebird forum was a place where I could safely discuss the unsettling aspects of the search and see if there were any connections. I only did so after the group agreed that nothing would leave the forum. I never wished for any of it to leave the forum.

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg12191#msg12191


KYLE KINGMAN’S OWN WORDS - NATALEE FREEBIRDS
 
Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08: Since I got the go ahead from Tim (T), we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I couldn't agree more. It was wrong to sit on the footage. I did everything I could to get them out and get them to Beth. Imagine how I felt having found the trap. I was told to move forward and to forget about the trap. I was told not to show anyone the images. I got around this through Tim Trahan. It took months. The only way I felt I could do anything was through here. I hoped through here that at least the images could get to Beth.

[Tamikosmom]

THE ABOVE S/B PART SIX

Fixed.

Thank you.

I promise never to again bother Klaas or mods in regards to editing or deleting my posts.

 

Janet