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Author Topic: Natalee Case Discussion #817 4/22/09 - 4/30/09  (Read 251332 times)
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Rob
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« Reply #580 on: April 27, 2009, 06:10:23 PM »

What's Hotshots explanation for all her shenanigans?

You remember - she couldn't talk here in the open on a public forum... she had to take it back stage where she works her magic.

I smell a free trip at an all inclusive like the Divi 

Mark my words - she will claim some moved the body right before Rhino "Lighttanks" Golba arrived.

Current odds

Dompig moved the body - 1 million to one (she loves her some Gerold Dompig and Stevie Croes). 

Kyle moved the body - 500,000 to one (Kyle WAS in the pond - he's a suspect) 

Kermit flew to Aruba and moved the body to make her look like shit - 1 to 1 

Note to Kath - you do a great job making yourself look like shit 
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« Reply #581 on: April 27, 2009, 06:10:40 PM »

Not that I want to interrupt anyone's train of thought here but is there any way to get this whole FBI poster on a T-shirt? PLEASE SEE:  http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm

It can be done but I'm not sure if it will end up large enough to be read on a t-shirt.  Might be better if the top half is on the front and the bottom on the back:



http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub6_022109/nh1.jpg
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Helen Back
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« Reply #582 on: April 27, 2009, 06:14:27 PM »

To some extent I do fault the Aruban people.  Aruba is a democracy and ... freedom to assemble is a right afforded them under Dutch law.

The Aruban people excercise this democratic right in the form of public protests when it comes to stikes for higher wages ... environmental concerns ... choller (prostitute) issues and ... a distraught mother who dare to call two of lying suspects in the Natalee Holloway case ... CRIMINALS.

However ... not once did the Aruban people empathize with Dave and Beth in the public arena by demanding that a just investigation was forthcoming into the disappearance of their daughter.

This lack of support by both Arubans and their representatives is the foundation that the voluntary boycott against Aruba was built on.


Janet
_______

THE BOYCOTT

BETH HOLLOWAY

'48 Hours Mystery'


Last fall, Twitty called for a boycott of Aruba. The island’s tourism industry has suffered: Travel bookings are off more than 4 percent from a year ago.

Does she still support a boycott of Aruba?

"The only leverage that we have in getting any traction in the investigation is when they feel the effects of a boycott," says Twitty.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/03/22/48hours/main1430644_page2.shtml

.
DAVE HOLLOWAY

'On the Record w/ Greta'


DAVE HOLLOWAY:  I made sure that the prime minister understood our position. You know, I had been holding off on this boycott as long as I could, and I told him, I said, you know, The big wave is coming, and if you guys are not going to listen, I can't help you anymore.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,175925,00.html

.
GOVERNOR RILEY

'CBS News'


Gov. Bob Riley called for a nationwide travel boycott of Aruba on Tuesday on behalf a missing Alabama teenager's family, who accuse the island's government of not fully cooperating with the investigation into her disappearance.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/08/national/main1025538.shtml

.
GOVERNOR RILEY AND SENATOR FRENCH

'The Birmingham News'

Alabama Senate votes to support boycott of Aruba
1/19/2006, 3:43 p.m. CT
The Associated Press


MONTGOMERY, Ala. (AP) — Gov. Bob Riley's call for a tourism boycott of Aruba has picked up support from the Alabama Senate, which says the investigation into the disappearance of an Alabama teenager has suffered from too many missteps.

On Thursday, the Senate voted 27-0 for a resolution supporting a boycott of the Dutch Caribbean island. Sen. Steve French, R-Birmingham, said he proposed the resolution at the request of the family of Mountain Brook teenager Natalee Holloway.

Holloway disappeared May 30 while on a graduation trip with classmates. She was last seen leaving a bar with a young Dutch national and two Surinamese brothers.

The Senate-passed resolution said a boycott is needed because the investigation into Holloway's disappearance "has been plagued with an unacceptable amount of missteps, miscommunications and inconsistencies."

"It's my hope this will cause the Aruban people to be more demanding that their officials conduct a thorough investigation," French said.

During a special session in July, the Alabama House passed a resolution calling for a boycott of Aruba.

http://www.al.com/newsflash/regional/index.ssf?/base/news-18/1137707351114580.xml&storylist=alabamanews



Janet, that's it....in a nutshell.  No matter how many other ways Julia and the AHATA try to spin it.

I would like to nominate Janet as head of interrogations for JP2K and the rest of the GANG!  No polygraph needed!   

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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #583 on: April 27, 2009, 06:21:29 PM »

Bastibro...Would it be fair to say that if Disetti was from the Netherlands he would speak Dutch?
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« Reply #584 on: April 27, 2009, 06:29:52 PM »

Not that I want to interrupt anyone's train of thought here but is there any way to get this whole FBI poster on a T-shirt? PLEASE SEE:  http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm

It can be done but I'm not sure if it will end up large enough to be read on a t-shirt.  Might be better if the top half is on the front and the bottom on the back:



http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub6_022109/nh1.jpg

oooh, that would be great!
any way you could demo that?

TIA

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whiskey for my men/beer for my horses
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« Reply #585 on: April 27, 2009, 06:41:21 PM »

Bastibro...Would it be fair to say that if Disetti was from the Netherlands he would speak Dutch?

I guess our posters from NL have retired for the evening, as it's later there....maybe you'll get a response tomorrow.

   On the other hand, would it be fair to say that if someone is from the USA, he would speak English? 
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klaasend
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« Reply #586 on: April 27, 2009, 06:43:09 PM »

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Keepthefaith
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« Reply #587 on: April 27, 2009, 06:46:28 PM »

Bastibro...Would it be fair to say that if Disetti was from the Netherlands he would speak Dutch?

I guess our posters from NL have retired for the evening, as it's later there....maybe you'll get a response tomorrow.

   On the other hand, would it be fair to say that if someone is from the USA, he would speak English? 

One would think 2nj.
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"A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history."

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« Reply #588 on: April 27, 2009, 06:50:58 PM »

Not that I want to interrupt anyone's train of thought here but is there any way to get this whole FBI poster on a T-shirt? PLEASE SEE:  http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/seekinfo/holloway.htm

It can be done but I'm not sure if it will end up large enough to be read on a t-shirt.  Might be better if the top half is on the front and the bottom on the back:



http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o100/klaasen3/Sub6_022109/nh1.jpg

oooh, that would be great!
any way you could demo that?

TIA



Front and back.  This is just a quick example.  If t-shirt were actually done you would want a high resolution photo for the best final product.  The ones I'm doing right now are not:



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« Reply #589 on: April 27, 2009, 07:11:42 PM »

Quote from: Rob on April 25, 2009, 12:46:01 PM
Good afternoon all!! I hope everyone is healthy and happy and enjoying some much needed warm weather and sunshine.

Something has been on my mind for the longest time and I guess today is the day.

Remember the gardener? I think his name was Ramos... but it's been so gosh darn long I think I might have forgot it. I know Natalee's dogs name... but the gardener - well, there's a blank there. (Janet warned me that getting older was hard)

Let's suppose, for one second, that this guy was in the employ of the crooked and corrupt Mansur family. Ohhh wait - we don't have to do that. He WAS. (There's no doubt in my mind, THAT'S ONE CROOKED FAMILY. And I have known alot about that family for a long time, but generally don't mention Jossy cause he APPEARS to be a family supporter. But, he's crooked and we all know that.)

Let's say that his story is not true. And by not true. I MEAN it's just not TRUE. It's a fallacy.

In all of the maps I made I include his account of a 2:30 am to 3 am sighting at the pond near the Aruba Racquet club. You have all seen those maps. It's part of the recognized time-line in Natalee's case. So I always include it.

In that account he has placed Joran in the FRONT DRIVER'S seat, Deepak in the front passenger's seat and an unknown in the back seat. Could be Freddy, could be Satish, could be Val. We have no clue who that was according to the declaration and we really don't even know if he saw Joran because he said that the person quickly covered his face with his hands. Now, where I live it's dark at 2:30 - 3 am. I still think it's dark on Aruba too. I have a hard time really getting my mind around this guy, his hawk-eyes and his story. And I always have.

This alone was always suspect to me. Why would Joran ever be in the driver's seat of Deepak's car if Deepak was able to be seated in the passenger's seat? I think you know what I'm implying here. Deepak was not in the back seat doing what ever these raping murdering thugs do.

Remove the gardener - just don't pay any attention to him or his story and follow this ->

Leave the crime dump at 1:08 am stop at another bar - possibly Choose A Name... and arrive at the Sloot dump at 1:40 am. So far so good. Everything fits.

Raping and murdering begins in car ride to Sloot dump as Natalee is going in and out of consciousness and concludes in the apartment where Joran rapes girls between the ages of 12 and 18.

Something bad happens between 1:45 am and 2:05 am (roughly) and Satish is gone in the blink of an eye and back home on the computer at 2:20 am (roughly) Drive from Sloot dump to Big People Lie homestead at nite - 12 minutes max.

Deepak's I got out at Arashi to take a pee declaration makes sense now. Deepak is outta the car and worried someone saw him. So - SOMEONE SAW HIM. And he knows it. That person has either not come forward or is the jogger.

Deepak freaks when confronted with the story of the gardener while in jail and allegedly flips over the dominos game board. But, why would he freak? That seem easy enough - PIN JOB. Seems someone was placing two of the three raping murdering maniacs somewhere they weren't. And Deepak knew it.

Eliminating the gardener's declaration makes everything fit nice and smooth.

Now what has happened in the last year? Well, for one thing there was a trap found 2.1 -2.2 miles off the shore of Arashi. Deepak himself places himself RIGHT there.

I suspect either of the Sloot vehicles were used in this instance to take Natalee to the beach or Satish took either the Suzuki or the Kia to get home. The Sloot cars were impounded, so there may have been a real cause there. Three people and one car and two appear to go in one direction and the other in yet another direction. It's also very possible that this is when the blood turned to chocolate and cleaning fluid. I suspect that it was Deepak's car that was used to take Natalee to the beach. After-all, they cleaned the bejeezers outta that thing at 3:30 am that morning.

Let's wrap this up  

1:08 am leave the crime dump and go to another bar - possibly Choose A Name. Head to Sloot house of rape and murder and arrive at 1:40 am.

5 minutes to get everyone from the car to the apartment - something bad happens between 1:45 am and 2:05 am. Leave Sloot house of rape and murder and head to the beach to drop Natalee somewhere and arrive at Arashi at 2:20 am. Just get her outta the house. And don't think for one second I've forgotten about that diabolical alcoholic Paulus. It was most likely at his instruction (or worse yet - his hands) that Natalee made her way to Arashi.

Here's where the gardener makes his appearance and if you know his complete story - you know he has told three accounts of why he was in the area at that time of night. First, his air conditioner didn't work or he had none. Second, he wanted to start the day early (huh? wtf? on Aruba? that guy would either be arrested for hard-work or given a certificate and deported, no one starts the day early on Aruba. NOT EVER EVER EVER!) Third, he was having an affair and told the other stories to have an alibi with his wife. Well, if he needed an alibi that badly maybe he would have just been better off keeping his mouth shut altogether and not risking that relationship - just sayin'.

Now use Jan Van Der Straaten chicken scratch cell phone triangulation. And the whole thing fits like a glove. In the area of Arashi the cell phones could probably been picked-up by the super large tower behind Amazonia and McDonald's. That's one huge tower and not like the smaller towers at the Tierra Del Sol. It is that large tower that Van Der Straaten using as his ping point.

In this scenario Joran is actually able to drive Deepak home or Deepak is able to drop Joran off and make it home himself. Joran is at home with plenty of time to begin his 3:26 am his alibi.

With the elimination of the gardener it all fits very nicely and easily especially when you consider that Joran was taped on the Patrick tapes saying that a friend - Daury - took her out to sea.

With the Mansur witness the whole case is off kilter. Without him, it all fits.

Anyway - It was on my mind and I thought I would post it. Have at it now. Show me where I'm wrong. LOL

Everyone have a great day and it's good to see Ms. Marple again  

Quote from: BUCKSHOT on April 26, 2009, 11:09:10PM

Rob,

I think you have brought up valid points. Very nice and thought provoking post.

**A "fast lane" teenager, such as Joran, who runs around the town, would think nothing about calling an impromptu after-hours (pool/apartment) party at his home with his friends and latest (tourist [preferred last-nighter]) bar conquests.
**The main area of the Sloot home has never been searched.
**Anita was out of town that night. Paulus was out having fun.
**A bloody mattress is found some time later.
**Concrete work is done around the Sloot pool.
**A furniture truck is spotted at the Sloot home.

Lots of unexplained things make the Sloot house a (most probable) crime scene for me, too. Ony other scene to consider would be a secluded (non-tourist) spot up near the rocks.

About the gardener...and Jossy...

**Jossy probably has nothing personal against NH or BHT or DH, but his loyalty is with Aruba first. It is a relatively small island, and since ALE (Straaten) has decided to cover instead of solve, a whistle blower would not go over well for the individual, nor the tourism-driven economy. Who else would know better than Jossy? His (extended) family has interests to safeguard. "Dogs do not Shit where they Eat." A corny, yet true, adage.
**The gardener testimony and story has always been "that piece of juicy info" you want to put stock in. Deepak tipping the domino board. Due to the imcompetent and deceptive nature of this case, though, the gardener could definitely have been fabricated. Clouding the waters was Aruba's game plan. Entrusted sources (due to a presumption that a similar justice system was in place) sometimes contrived stories with the sole purpose of steering away from the truth.
**Taking his racquetball sighting out of the story coincides with the general timeline. Paulus, whether home or not, wasted no time in taking over as mastermind. Getting her off Sloot property (if there) was important. Temporary arrangements were soon followed by permanent arrangements, for sure.
**PJ2K wanted to be invisible that night. However, the next night, they wanted to be super visible.

Just my humble thoughts...Feel free to add or subtract...

BUCKSHOT


Quote from: Rob on April 27, 2009, 11:48:43AM
Let's take this thing with Carlos Ramos just a step further. And thanks to Buckshot for the reply.

I'll put it together - you show me where I'm wrong and Ramos where told the truth. Remember - without Ramos - Natalee is in a trap off Arashi.

Here we go!! Let's Roll!

CARLOS RAMOS - PART 1 of 5 7/26/2005 BACKGROUND TO DECLARATION. PART ONE
On Tuesday, July 26, 2005 around 17:30, I, KELLY showed, at the police force guard North, to the witness C.A. PENATA RAMOS, the seized gray Honda Civic belonging to the suspect D.S. KALPOE.The car became of interest in the search of the missing girl Natalee Holloway and was intentionally seized.

RAMOS STATEMENT
I recognize the car which you now show me as the car in which I had seen the three boys on the night of Monday. It is the car in which I had spoken in my declaration.
W.n.g.C.A. PENATA RAMOS
After I, KELLY, read the declaration of the witness to him in Spanish, he explained that he would not sign it.He explained that he will grant no further collaboration to the police force.Of which by me, KELLY, on oath of office made up this warrant which has been closed and has been signed at Bubali on 26 July 2005.


Ok, this alone is the first very troubling sign. Actually there are two very troubling signs in the opening statement.
 1. He comes forward with info and then won't sign the statement.
   A. Possibly not statement he made.
   B. Statement has minor alterations.
   C. Last sentence clearly says - and has been signed at Bubali. Signed by Kelly I assume, but not Ramos.
 2. This all takes place at the Bubali Polis station.
   A. Bubali is where Jacobs worked.
   B. Beth was railroaded at that station multiple times.
   C. Deepak's Honda outside Bubali before arrests.
   D Theodore van Loon outside station in yellow jeep carrying trailer and large barrel - reference Beth's book.

EXTREMELY INTERESTING SIDE NOTE FROM SAME DECLARATION.
He explained that he will grant no further collaboration to the police force.

He came forward voluntarily but yet wants no more further collaboration with the polis. HUH? As if you open your mouth and then are exempt from testimony?

August 3, 2005, at around 17.30 EIGHT DAYS LATER. PART TWO
On August 3, 2005, at around 17.30, I, CROES, had called the witness C.A. PENATA RAMOS on its mobile tel., number xxx-xxxx. I had shared with the witness that we need him the next day at around 09.30 that it was necessary concerning further settlement of the procedure in this matter. The witness had told me, CROES, to call him around 20.00 because he had to ask for permission from his employer. According to the witness he had to work the next day in the morning hours. Around 20.30 the under inspector first class R.R. TROMP, called the witness C.A. PENATA RAMOS on its mobile telephone. The witness did not take the call. Of which has been closed by me, CROES, on oath of office made up and this warrant and has been signed at North on August 3, 2005.
Signed,
L.A.G. CROES


Actually I can't blame the polis here. They did what they were supposed to do for once. Which makes me wonder if they knew he wouldn't cooperate. Remember, a witness who lies goes to jail. I think Ramos found that out in the preceding eight days.

Ramos does not take the call. Mr. Ramos KNOWS THE POLIS WILL CALL. He's already given one statement he HAS REFUSED TO SIGN. Interesting that Mr. Croes does not indicate if Mr. Ramos returned the call. I assume he was not collaborating with the polis further. This appears to be the only instance where the polis are fully engaged and the witness is non-collaborating. Show me another, please.

col⋅lab⋅o⋅rate
/kəˈlæbəˌreɪt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuh-lab-uh-reyt]    Show IPA
–verb (used without object), -rat⋅ed, -rat⋅ing.
1.    to work, one with another; cooperate, as on a literary work: They collaborated on a novel.
2.    to cooperate, usually willingly, with an enemy nation, esp. with an enemy occupying one's country: He collaborated with the Nazis during World War II.


Possible the statement was indeed altered and Mr. Ramos didn't like what it said or it was all fabrication and Mr. Ramos wanted no parts of that. It's a KNOWN fact THAT the polis altered Beth's statement and didn't take Jug's for two weeks.
I interpret the no further collaboration to the police force - to mean not cooperate - but he will not work with them to place someone where they were not.

Court Order to Appear 08/09/2005 PART THREE
The judge-commissar, given the warrants dated August 3, 2005 in the criminal matter against Joran Andreas Petrus van der Sloot, Deepak Sharma Kalpoe and Satish Sharma Kalpoe.
Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos,
born in Columbia on February 25, 1979 and residing at L.G.Smith boulevard xxxxxx in Aruba,
if witness under and in presence of the council man wants hearing on Thursday, August 4, 2005 at 10.00;
Considering the fact that the witness has not been found at home and that the house owner resident refused take the rebelling on behalf of him in reception: (?)
Considering the fact that witness on aforementioned date has not appeared;
HAS:
ordered that the witness Carlos Alberto Penata Ramos, born in Columbia on February 25, 1979 and residing at L.G. Smith xxxxxxxxxx in Aruba, must appear Thursday, August 11, 2005 summoned at 09.30 to be present in the Courthouse at Aruba and ordered in addition that he will be brought for the judge by the bailiff or servant of the public power.
This arrangement has been thus given on August 9, 2005, by Mr. H.A.C. Smid, judge-commissar and on behalf of these by Mr. J.S. Kulperdal, signed, in the presence of the clerk.
for duplicate,
the clerk.


So much to say here, but the statement speaks for itself. One item of extreme importance.
Bases on the warrant issued on August 3rd (remember this is Court Order to Appear 08/09/2005) and derived on the same day he didn't answer his phone. So - wtf?

Court Hearing 8/15/2005 PART FOUR AND FOUR DAYS LATER.
FROM THE FIRST COURT OF ARUBA
OPENING STATEMENT SNIPPED AND FOUND HERE > http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=271.0


1.   Can you remind yourself the declaration, which you have taken off 22 July 2005 on around 19.25 compared with the police force? Yes
The 22nd of July? where is that declaration? I only see July 26th as the opening date.

2.   Have you then spoken the truth? I have explained what I have seen.Remember he wanted no further collaboration with the polis. Now he claims to have explained what he has seen.

3.   The witness is asked to make a situation drawing (make production 1). The witness gives to where the car of suspect stood and the route he took.Who knows what this really entails. WE will never know.

4.   Did you see the face of the driver when you went past? Yes. Doubtful. At 2:30-3am?

5.   Did you recognize him with a photograph confrontation? Yes, on the day that I gave a declaration at the police force they left me a photograph see from an illustrated magazine. That is the only photograph that they showed me.Huh? Remember this happened at cover-up central - Bubali.
From a illustrated magazine? What does that mean? Doesn't sound good.
Only one photo? That makes no sense. These are FBI trained polis?
Maybe a book is in order - Polis work for Dummies and how to ignore everything the FBI taught you. By Gerold Dompig.

6.   Did you recognize the faces of the other persons in the car? Yes, the face of the person who sat beside the driver.  When I came past I saw, in the light of my car, that the person beside the driver had his head and face covered with his hands. I have recognized that person from his illustration (photo)[/color]. You ask me how I recognized the driver who sat beside the man who screened its face? I have seen him in the light of my "in the light of" (van). He moved himself a bit to the back.It's all pretty clear here. Hands cover face (and this is a saving grace move on the part of Ramos in case he is wrong).

7. You have also recognized Deepak Kalpoe? yes, on the same photograph which the police force showed me.Another photo? That's not listed. Ramos claims he saw one photo. It is Joran or Deepak? Or the CnC pic of all of them together?

The witness is shown 3 photos (productions no 2., 3, and 4).
He is asked to designate the persons, who are involved in this matter.
Production no.2 on this wise the witness photograph no 6 to, the driver of the car.
Production no.3. The witness designates to photograph no 6 and tells that this person in the back of seat. After the witness shows no doubt left that this is the person in the seat.
Production no.4. The witness recognizes nobody from the photograph. On the questions of Mr. De Bie, Council man of the suspect J. van der Sloot, the witness answers as follows:


Just a giant mess. Who know what happened here.

LET'S LOOK CLOSELY AT THIS
I looked and saw that on my watch it was at 02:30. For 03.00 I was at my work. I’m not sure exactly how precise it is. When I encountered the car in question, it was on that dirt road. I had slowed down to drive past there. The lights of my car "from" shining on that car. The person beside the driver, kept its hand for its head and face. I saw that the driver slid a bit to the back. You asks me how I interrogate myself on this have prepared. I have been nervous. I have "stress" of the matter. This is the first time that something like this has happened to me. I was on holiday. You ask me why I did not appear the previous time. There are persons, who put pressure on me to talk. I have discussed the matter with my boss. I had discussed my holiday and knew of the rebellion. I have been placed under pressure by someone from Bubali, two inspectors and another man. They wanted that I come and give a statement. The second time I wasn’t here. When I drove along the car, it was dark that evening. By the lights of my "of" the car it was entirely lighted. The lights did not reflect in the car. You ask me why I have waited with giving my statement. Two guards have been apprehended firstly, who were innocent. The person who worked on the tattoo also knew of nothing. Days after the photograph appeared in Diario, I told some of it to my boss.

OK, there it IS. Right there in front of everyone's face.
1. There are persons, who put pressure on me to talk. I have been placed under pressure by someone from Bubali, two inspectors and another man.
That really says all we need to know. How that got in there is anyone's idea. I would think that would be redacted, but it could be left to make the reader come to the conclusion that Ramos was telling the truth and was coerced when none existed.

Because of the attention that the matter got, my boss said that I should wait as I have almost lost my job.
Huh, a Mansur threatens job loss? And why should he have waited? Waited for what?

D. Kalpoe suspect on the questions of Mr. R. Oomen, Council man of, asked the witness as follows:
I look after the maintenance to the house, the hunting and ranch of Eric Mansur. I do this already 6 years. I deserve the minimum wage of afl. 1.250. live = I reside at L.G. Smith boulevard xxxxxx. The house is of Eric Mansur. In the time then the police force looked for me I was fishing. [/b]I was with my boss[/b]. There were also still 5 others with us. We have fished in Bonaire and Curacao. Up to and including yesterday I was on the boat. By having to come here my holiday has been spoiled. You ask me if I knew that the police force wanted me.  After I returned I learned they wanted me. It was Saturday and a week had passed.  I had left around August 6th.  Nobody had told me that I had come as a witness.  YOU ask me how long for my departure I was called.  I think that that was Thursday.  The first questions took place in Bubali.  Present was one Luis and 2 police constables.  The night


ok, so much to say here, but you have the idea. He didn't KNOW he was gonna be a witness? Where did he get that idea? He made a declaration, HE KNEW. And Eric Mansur owns the house he lives in. I wonder if this is the same Mansur that wanted everyone down at the dump and even supplied the bulldozer when the polis and Aruban Authorities claim they had no working equipment? Why did a witness come forward with the white truck and the half naked girl and Junior the crackhead keep everyone at the dump for weeks? Why did someone want everyone away from Arashi where the suspects place themselves? And Mansurs are all over this. One pretends to be a family supporter and others keep the focus else where.

I have seen the car in the morning of 30 May of Sunday on Monday. I went to Lorena on Monday night, then I went to work, told that I saw a car standing along the way when I drove along there. I cannot remember on which day I saw the photograph of the persons in the newspaper. The photograph, which the police force showed me, is the same photograph as the photograph that appeared in the Diario. You ask me how can I know or recognize the persons from the photograph in the newspaper or that I had seen that night. The first time then I saw the photograph in the Diario I had been astonished and I said that to colleagues. You represent me that I have explained that I have recognized the persons from their construction and mail hour. You ask me if I could see from my position in the car. My position was a bit is higher, in the turning I had drive concerning a sand hill as a result of which my position was a bit slanted. As a result, I could look at in the car. I have recognized the car from the rims. Also to the color and the transparent squares. You ask me if I can designate the persons, which sat in the car. Yes.

More Mansurs just subtly included here to add credibility.

Observation: the indication of these persons in the Council chamber does not take place. The councel Oomen and Zeppenfeldt make to objection against this since three the some in the Council chamber are which qualify to are designated, suspect.
On closer questions of Mr. De Bie, the witness answers as follows: I have not heard from   Eric Mansur nor from anyone else anything concerning the father of Joran van der Sloot.
On closer questions of Mr. Oomen, the witness answers: The police force has shown only a gray car to me.
Read persisted in Spanish, and signed.
CARLOS PENATA RAMOS


WHY HAS NO ONE HEARD FROM ERIC MANSUR? - just sayin'
The public prosecutor requests once again the suspect designate persons. That request is rejected.
The lawyer Mr. E. Zeppenfeldt, Council man of suspected S. Kalpoe was asked if he had any questions for the witness. He had no questions.
Suspected of Joran van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe and Satish Kalpoe was asked if he had any questions for the witness.  He had no questions.


very very interesting - no questions. Someone has place two of the three suspects at a locale and there are no questions. I would be all over this guy, but there are no questions. Just mind boggling. Sounds like two attorneys knew the outcome to me.

PROCESS – VERBAAL PART FIVE
We, Dennis Dominico JACOBS and Eric Louis SOEMERS, head agent and under inspector at the Korps Police force Aruba, former classified at the team particular projects and last at the section criminal organizations classified, explain the following.
On Monday, August 16, 2005, around 14:15, the man named:
Carlos Alberto PENATA RAMOS


Mr. Cornflakes is all over this witness and I suspect he is -> There are persons, who put pressure on me to talk. I have been placed under pressure by someone from Bubali, two inspectors and another man.

lso known as "Compa", born at Cartagena in Colombia on February 25, 1979, of profession gardener (family MANSUR) and living L.G. Smith boulevard xxxxxxxxxx on Aruba, by the judge-commissar Mr. J.S. KUIPERDAL at the Court bldg. at J.G. Emanstraat number 51 on Aruba, as witness in the matter of the missing American girl named "Natalee Ann HOLLOWAY".
After this interrogation, in the guard chamber at the Court, C.A. PENATA RAMOS gave this statement:
-    that the judge-commissar, during the interrogation, he authorized him to go to the w.c.:
-   that he saw two (2) young persons sitting (in car?) on a bank:
-   that he recognized those two young persons as those of which, with the Dutch boy who were in the photograph in the newspapers (with the Dutch boy he meant JVDS):
-   that he also recognized the gray car the boys were the Salinja in and:
-   that the two young persons appearance had changed but that he still nevertheless recognized them:
Of what our, statement, on oath of office made up this warrant, and has been signed at Oranjestad on August 16, 2005 has been closed.
Signed,
DD JACOBS             E.L. SOEMERS


Claims to see Joran according to PV, yet no mention of Deepak.

ok, have at it. I say this witness lied for the polis to expand the timeline. I say the journey is from CnC to Choose A Name to the Sloots to Arashi.
It's probably that simple.
Everyone have a great day and please feel free to snip and clip and of course I would love to see your comments.


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Tamikosmom
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« Reply #590 on: April 27, 2009, 07:15:12 PM »

There are those who discredit Beth Holloway's every word ... action and ... motivation in her quest for answers to what happened to her beloved daughter.  Now there are trolls are are focusing the blame for the entire Aruban tragedy on the mother of Natalee Holloway.  Why!  Beth did not discourage Natalee from going on the Aruban granduation holiday.

I am sure in hindsight Beth wishes she had discouraged Natalee and ... Dave wishes that he had designated the $500.00 graduation gift to his daughter towards anything except the trip.  However ... neither parents did anything wrong.

For crying out loud ... Natalee Holloway was eighteen years old.  She was legally permited to be on the premises of the Excelsior Casino and Carlos 'n' Charlies.  Natalee was leaving home in the fall to attend university.  In other words ... Natalee was not a child.

If any parent was to be faulted  for the chain of events that led to the demise of Natalee Holloway ... if would be Paulus van der Sloot
______

PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT - THE ENABLER

'Rita Cosby Live&Direct' - April. 4, 2006

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: Well, if you look at the surveillance video footage, it appears that he’s the one sitting directly next to her and tries to engage her in conversation a couple of times.  And it’s sort of ironic that it’s his father who brought his underage son to a casino and left him there after he left, with access to his line of credit, to put this unfortunate chain of events in process.

You know, if Joran had never been there, not been allowed in there, because he’s underage and wasn’t accompanied by his father, the whole rest of the night wouldn’t have happened.

COSBY: You know, and, John, also, why would that be a significant—why is that in conflict to something else we’ve heard maybe from Paulus before?

KELLY: Well, he’s just claiming that, you know, he’s kept an eye on his son, you know, he’s kept him on a short leash, and, you know, his son is very well-behaved. And it turns out that he’s, you know, got him at casinos. If you’re under 18, you’re not legally even allowed in casinos, so his son was breaking the law with him enabling it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12150698/

.
DANA PRETZER - July 23, 2007

Dana Pretzer: One thing that makes my listeners scratch their heads so to speak and wonder, myself included and we'll talk about it again, is the fact of the underage drinking and gambling that had been going on admittedly by young van der Sloot.  Was there ever any discussion or has there ever been any discussion at least of filing some charges as far as that goes?

Jossy Mansur:  No, there hasn't been any of that. The authorities have just (inaudible) it aside, they haven't paid any attention to it then and they're not paying any attention to it now and over the past 26 months.    I haven't seen anything in the direction of trying to make some kind of statement that this is not (inaudiable) at least make some sort of a statement that this is not (inaubible) because it is a known fact that as an underage he wasn't supposed to be in the casino, much less in the company of his father. He was there, there are video tapes to prove that and still the authorities haven't done anything with regard to that specific case.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/2007/07/23/the-dana-pretzer-show-monday-july-23rd-2007-special-guests-larry-sinclair-jossy-mansur-ladonna-meredith-attorney-jay-paul-deratany/
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #591 on: April 27, 2009, 07:16:47 PM »

Sorry for the long post.

Crime was simple. Cover up is endless/infinite.

Cnc, ChooseAName, Sloot home, temporary disposal, final disposal.

There are/were lots of fabrications, witnesses included.

Nothing would surprise me in this case.
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« Reply #592 on: April 27, 2009, 07:17:32 PM »

Front and back.  This is just a quick example. 

OK, thank you ... Cool

I get a lot of comments/questions
when I wear my Natalee t-shirts

(every little bit helps)

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whiskey for my men/beer for my horses
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« Reply #593 on: April 27, 2009, 07:50:38 PM »

Wreck email please.

Please do not use any of the Missing Persons threads in this manner.  It's unacceptable.  Thank you.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2009, 07:53:17 PM by 2NJSons_Mom » Logged


I am A1 because I am saucy!!!
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« Reply #594 on: April 27, 2009, 07:55:29 PM »

Bastibro...Would it be fair to say that if Disetti was from the Netherlands he would speak Dutch?

I'm not Bastibro and didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night but unless mute, one would think so.

Is a bear Catholic or something like that, lol.

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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #595 on: April 27, 2009, 08:06:34 PM »

Rob,
ITA and while not ready to write off Jossy completely none of his witnesses ever seemed to work out for one reason or another.

Once again, I was sure in the beginning his heart was in the right place and he might be the one to bring this whold farce down.

But since his brother is using the Carlos law firm featuring Paulus I have had serious doubts.  What happened to the alleged bad blood between Mansurs and Paulus?  I think there never was any in reality.

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PERSONA NON GRATA

All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
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« Reply #596 on: April 27, 2009, 09:16:02 PM »

GradCity.com and Beth Holloway Stress Safety this Spring Break Season
Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:30am EDT

Organizations Offer Easy Tips to Make Student Travel Safer


PEABODY, Massachusetts, March 24 /PRNewswire/ - GradCity.com, a division of First Choice Student Travel, and the International Safe Travels Foundation,a non-profit organization founded by Beth Holloway, the mother of missing teen Natalee Holloway, have jointly released a series of steps students can take to make their travel experiences safer. This announcement follows GradCity.com's 2007 launch of its BreakSmart (http://gradcity.com/breaksmart.php) campaign, which was created to encourage responsible decision-making while on Spring Break.

"With Spring Break right around the corner, stressing safety while traveling is paramount. And since Natalee Holloway's disappearance just underthree years ago, students and other young adults, as well as parents andteachers have been seeking out ways to make student travel safer - both internationally and domestically," said Joe Bush, Managing Sales Director of First Choice Student Travel. "Our BreakSmart program, which makes available safety tips and cautionary advice for students, is one way students can arm
themselves with information to help ensure a memorable and safe travel experience."

There are many steps students can take to travel more safely this spring and summer. Travel experts at StudentCity.com and InternationalSafeTravelsFoundation.org recommend the following tips to start:

-   Research the destination - Familiarize yourself with laws and customs, research potential health and safety risks, and look into news and current events in the area you are visiting before you travel. The United States Department of State offers itemized destination information at http://travel.state.gov. Lindsay Waits, Director of Education for the International Safe Travels Foundation, points out that it is wise to be aware of not only U.S. advice, but also that which is offered to travelers from other countries. She suggests that travelers visit the Australian Department of Foreign Affairs at http://www.smartraveller.gov.au.

-   Know your limits - Alcohol impairs good decision-making, so stay in control and stay safe. Never accept drinks from people you don't know. Also, be aware that the amount of alcohol in popular drink choices may vary from country to country.

-   Travel in pairs - Using the "buddy system" is of utmost importance when traveling. NEVER go anywhere without a buddy, and stay in large groups when possible. Be a buddy to your friends by keeping track of their whereabouts.

-   Know who to call - Create a list of emergency contact numbers before embarking on your trip. Include local hospitals, police stations and the U.S. Consulate in the area you're visiting. Carry numbers at all times while traveling and always contact the U.S. Consulate immediately if a situation arises while traveling internationally.  Make sure you know the 24-hour number for the Consulate, in addition to its address and hours.

-   Be cell-phone savvy - Prior to traveling, activate international calling on your cell phone, rent an international cell phone, or get an international calling card. Most importantly, learn how to call internationally from the country you're visiting.

-   Ask questions - Talk to your trip organizers and ensure you have all the proper contact information for onsite staff and onsite travel offices before you depart.

"International travel is a wonderful and exciting experience for most students. It should be safe as well," said Beth Holloway, President & CEO, International Safe Travels Foundation. "I established the International Safe Travels Foundation to help travelers of all ages plan a safer trip, regardless of destination. The foundation encourages travelers of all ages to prepare for trips by researching the destination fully, and becoming as educated as possible. And most importantly we encourage parents and students to talk openly about how to stay safe while traveling, so that students can focus on having a good time while on their vacations."

About GradCity.com

As the leader in leisure student travel, GradCity.com partners with airlines, hotels, clubs and entertainers to professionally plan and manage unforgettable travel experiences. Since 1987, GradCity.com professionals havearranged and hosted thousands of students on tours to the Caribbean, Mexico and various travel destinations throughout the United States for Spring Break, Winter Break, Graduation and other school-sponsored trips.

GradCity.com provides exclusive student events and has the highest staff to student ratio
in the industry. GradCity.com is owned by First Choice Student Travel under the corporate umbrella of TUI Travel, PLC. TUI is one of the world's leading leisure travel companies operating in 180 countries, with over 30 million customers from more than 20 countries and 48,000 colleagues across all businesses and is listed on the London Stock Exchange.

About The Safe Travels Foundation

The Safe Travels Foundation is a US tax-exempt, charitable organization qualified under Section 501c3 of the Internal Revenue Code established to inform and educate the public to help them travel more safely as they travel internationally.

SOURCE  GradCity.com

Joe Bush, First Choice Student Travel, (978) 573-2004,
jbush@fcstudenttravel.com

http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS110510+24-Mar-2008+PRN20080324
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
Tamikosmom
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« Reply #597 on: April 27, 2009, 09:36:25 PM »

THE JUNE 10TH CONFESSION

Could it be that either Joran, Deepak or Satish broke and revealed all but ... Paulus van der Sloot went into damage control behind the scenes and had the confession retracted?

Could it be that Paulus was not about to have Joran or himself implicated as participants in the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005?

Could it be that the Kalpoes must also be protected/silenced?  Think about it.  If these two go down ... they are not going to go down alone.  In all probability ... Deepak and Satish have the ability to point fingers at Joran, Paulus as well as the sons of the elite.

+++++++

THE INVOLVEMENT OF PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT?

THE HOLIDAY IN DROP OFF FABRICATION

On the Record w/ Greta – June 29, 2005

Former Aruba Suspect Alleges Plot!


MICKEY JOHN, FORMER SUSPECT: ... He (Deepak) said a story being made up about dropping the girl of at a Holiday Inn, was all something being made up. He, and the Dutch guy, and the Dutch guy's father, they sit and made up the story.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,161044,00.html

.
THE PICKUP

Loving Natalee: A Mother's Testament of Hope and Faith
by Beth Holloway


Page 151:  A few days later Paulus is arrested and questioned by Aruban police after they say he changed his story about what time he picked up Joran on the night Natalee disappeared.  First Paulus states that he picked “them” up at McDonald’s at four in the morning on May 30.  We do not know who he means by “them.”  Later he changes his story completely, saying he picked Joran up at eleven at night on May 29 at McDonald’s.  By making this change, his story now coincides with the one Joran gave police on June 9.  But according to Aruban police officials it also makes Paulus another lying witness.

.
Phil McGraw Witness Log

Paulus van der Sloot
Name: Paulus van der Sloot
Date: 23 June 2005 / 14:30
Pages: 13
Writer/Initiator: Roland Tromp
Description: transcript of interrogation
Responsive to Request 41

.
CBS News – August 5, 2008

(Roland) Tromp said investigators believe van der Sloot, who turns 18 on Saturday, is the prime suspect and that he had some assistance from his father, Paul, an apprentice judge on the island.

"We believe something went wrong with the girl, and the first person you are going to call is your daddy," said Tromp. "In this case, daddy would know exactly what to do."

Tromp, who declined to provide details about exactly what investigators believe happened to Holloway, said that Paul van der Sloot has also changed his account the night Holloway vanished.

"Why should you do that if you are telling the truth?" he said.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/08/05/world/main763210_page2.shtml

.
THE SONS OF THE ELITE

'Scarborough Country' - August 29, 2005

LISA DANIELS, GUEST HOST:  It definitely smells that way.  You know, if you take the prosecution‘s statement at its face, we are talking on a whole new level, the charges here.  We are talking about drugs.  We are talking about rape and we are talking about rape of many different people.  There are four guys now in custody, four best friends.  What does that tell you?
 
JOSSY MANSUR, EDITOR, “DIARIO”:   Well, what it tells me is that, really, these four guys are friends.  They belong to the same group, these party boys that go out and prey on young, unsuspected girls or other kinds of girls also that are out to have a good time, not suspecting what they‘re in for with these predators around.

And they are—they not only appear in photographs together, but I understand that Freddy lives very near to the Joran house.  So, there is a bond between them.  There is a group that they call themselves the pimps, in which all of these participate.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9119491/
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Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
Page 219: I have to make difficult choices every day.  I have to make a conscious decision every morning when I wake up not to be bitter, not to live in resentment and let anger control me.  It's not easy.  I ask God to help me.
_____

“A person of integrity expects to be believed and when he’s not, he let’s time prove him right.” -unknown
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« Reply #598 on: April 27, 2009, 09:47:01 PM »



Kyle's email makes me throw up in my mouth a little.   

 


Anybody notice what Kyle's email absolutely did not say?


"DAVE HOLLOWAY WAS KEPT INFORMED"

or even better...

"JOHN SILVETTI AND THE CREW OF PERSISTENCE WERE WORKING ON BEHALF OF DAVE HOLLOWAY AND PERFORMED THE OCEAN SEARCH STRICTLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH HIS WISHES"


 

The dog that didn't bark.
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ARUBA: It's all about Natalee...we won't give up!


« Reply #599 on: April 27, 2009, 10:13:05 PM »



Kyle's email makes me throw up in my mouth a little.   

 


Anybody notice what Kyle's email absolutely did not say?


"DAVE HOLLOWAY WAS KEPT INFORMED"

or even better...

"JOHN SILVETTI AND THE CREW OF PERSISTENCE WERE WORKING ON BEHALF OF DAVE HOLLOWAY AND PERFORMED THE OCEAN SEARCH STRICTLY IN ACCORDANCE WITH HIS WISHES"


 

The dog that didn't bark.


Yes I noticed Lifesong.   
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I stand with the girl, Natalee Holloway.

"I can look back over the past 10 years and there were no steps wasted, and there are no regrets,'' she said. "I did all I knew to do and I think that gives me greater peace now." "I've lived every parent's worst nightmare and I'm the parent that nobody wants to be," she said.

Beth Holloway, 2015 interview with Greta van Susteren
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