Natalee Case Discussion #818 4/30/09 - 5/17/09

[Keepthefaith]

I agree with the Wreck....We need to get back in the groove,that we were in at one point,in regards to the Persistence and the cover-up!

[iris44]

Article posted at GM along with a credit to the MajorWager site because according to Vicki (VMS) at GM the original article link is no longer available. 

Here is the link to the original article in the NYPost.  It took me approximately 2 minutes to find it.  My point in all this is some people don't research and some people do:

http://www.nypost.com/gossip/archives/2005/07/20050713_aruba+suspect+no+poker+face.htm

Aruba suspect no poker face
 
July 13, 2005 --

JORAN Van Der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of vacationing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, is already guilty - of being a lousy poker player. Van Der Sloot, the 17-year-old son of an Aruban justice official, is being held in connection with the vanishing of 18-year-old Holloway. He was a bad bluffer and lost big during a Texas Hold 'Em tournament on the Caribbean island back in April. Miami club impresario Tommy Pooch, who played next to Van Der Sloot for more than two hours, tells us the Dutch-born youth "was as nice as can be, but he was a terrible poker player. "He kept buying back in, and finally he got knocked out when they stopped buy-ins," Pooch said. "He was a terrible bluffer . . . He was a young, excitable kid. He wore the sunglasses and the baseball cap like they do on TV, but even that didn't help." Van Der Sloot must have had a habit of losing money in the poker room of the Holiday Inn-Aruba. "It seemed like everyone knew him there," Pooch said. "It was his hangout. He knew all the dealers by name. He was a local yokel." Last week, an Aruba judge released two brothers held as suspects in the disappearance of Holloway, but ordered that Van Der Sloot be kept in custody for another 60 days. Holloway was last seen around 1 a.m. on May 30 leaving a local nightclub with Van Der Sloot and his buddies Satish Kalpoe, 18, and his brother Deepak, 21. It was the last day of Holloway's high school graduation trip with her classmates. This week's National Enquirer advances the theory that Van Der Sloot confessed to his father that he dumped Holloway's body in shark-infested waters after she accidentally hit her head and drowned in an Ecstasy-induced stupor on an Aruban beach. A source told the tabloid that Van Der Sloot and Holloway went swimming together after meeting at the club and taking drugs together. "Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned," the Enquirer quotes its source. "In a drug-and-alcohol induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of Natalee's body in the sea." Van Der Sloot has not been charged, and his family maintains his innocence.

Anyone know who "A source" was?

[Keepthefaith]

From reading the article it appears the NY post is quoting the "National Enquirer" who is quoting their source...Is there any reliability in that??????Me personally..I don't think so..........

[Keepthefaith]

                                  JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

                                      GOODNIGHT & GOD BLESS

                                              KEEPTHEFAITH

[texasmom]

                                  JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

                                      GOODNIGHT & GOD BLESS

                                              KEEPTHEFAITH

Good Night KTF!   

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[sharon]

Good morning my Monkey friends!

A blast from the past.

Knowing what we know now -- it's obvioius to me that the 'recent' pond search is not the first time the miscreants and their hoaxes were employed. It started very early on 
-----------------------------------------------------------

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/08/28/dave-holloways-request-helpfindnataleecomcastnet/

Dave Holloway’s request; HELPFINDNATALEE@COMCAST.NET
 
We received an email from Dave Holloway requesting help in the getting out the word of the email address to send evidence to in efforts to help find Natalee. Scared Monkeys is more than willing to help. The email was as follows:

I NEED YOUR HELP! WE HAVE CREATED A NEW EMAIL ADDRESS FOR PERSONS TO E-MAIL US INFORMATION THAT WOULD BE USEFUL IN THE INVESTIGATION. WE ARE NOT LOOKING FOR THEORIES, GUESSES, OR SUGGESTIONS, BUT RATHER HARD EVIDENCE, HEARSAY EVIDENCE, OR SOMETHING SOMEONE MAY HAVE SEEN. IF A PERSON WANTS TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS, I CAN ARRANGE THAT. THEY WILL NEED TO ADVISE ME OF THIS POSITION IN THEIR E-MAIL.

IN OTHER WORDS, INFORMATION THAT I CAN FORWARD TO THE FBI, OUR ATTORNEY, AND THE PROSECUTION TEAM.

THE E-MAIL ADDRESS IS HELPFINDNATALEE@COMCAST.NET WE HAVE ALSO SET UP A PAYPAL ACCOUNT WITH THE SAME NAME. WE ARE UTILIZING THIS FOR ATTORNEY FEES, SERVICES RENDERED FOR SPECIFIC SEARCHES, AND DIVE ARRANGEMENTS. I AM HOPING WE CAN PUT ANOTHER DETECTIVE ON THE GROUND THAT WILL REMAIN ANONYMOUS.

IN THE LAST FEW DAYS, I HAVE RECEIVED A NUMBER OF GOOD LEADS THAT I HAVE FORWARDED TO OUR ATTORNEY TO PROVIDE TO THE PROSECUTION TEAM. ANOTHER LEAD WAS FORWARDED TO THE FBI FOR A LEAD IN THE US.

I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP

DAVE
____________________________________________________________________

AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT...IT DOES !!!!
Justice for Natalee Holloway

Peace for her family and loved ones.

4 years and counting.......

[Buckeye]

Article posted at GM along with a credit to the MajorWager site because according to Vicki (VMS) at GM the original article link is no longer available. 

Here is the link to the original article in the NYPost.  It took me approximately 2 minutes to find it.  My point in all this is some people don't research and some people do:

http://www.nypost.com/gossip/archives/2005/07/20050713_aruba+suspect+no+poker+face.htm

Aruba suspect no poker face
 
July 13, 2005 --

JORAN Van Der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of vacationing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, is already guilty - of being a lousy poker player. Van Der Sloot, the 17-year-old son of an Aruban justice official, is being held in connection with the vanishing of 18-year-old Holloway. He was a bad bluffer and lost big during a Texas Hold 'Em tournament on the Caribbean island back in April. Miami club impresario Tommy Pooch, who played next to Van Der Sloot for more than two hours, tells us the Dutch-born youth "was as nice as can be, but he was a terrible poker player. "He kept buying back in, and finally he got knocked out when they stopped buy-ins," Pooch said. "He was a terrible bluffer . . . He was a young, excitable kid. He wore the sunglasses and the baseball cap like they do on TV, but even that didn't help." Van Der Sloot must have had a habit of losing money in the poker room of the Holiday Inn-Aruba. "It seemed like everyone knew him there," Pooch said. "It was his hangout. He knew all the dealers by name. He was a local yokel." Last week, an Aruba judge released two brothers held as suspects in the disappearance of Holloway, but ordered that Van Der Sloot be kept in custody for another 60 days. Holloway was last seen around 1 a.m. on May 30 leaving a local nightclub with Van Der Sloot and his buddies Satish Kalpoe, 18, and his brother Deepak, 21. It was the last day of Holloway's high school graduation trip with her classmates. This week's National Enquirer advances the theory that Van Der Sloot confessed to his father that he dumped Holloway's body in shark-infested waters after she accidentally hit her head and drowned in an Ecstasy-induced stupor on an Aruban beach. A source told the tabloid that Van Der Sloot and Holloway went swimming together after meeting at the club and taking drugs together. "Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned," the Enquirer quotes its source. "In a drug-and-alcohol induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of Natalee's body in the sea." Van Der Sloot has not been charged, and his family maintains his innocence.

Anyone know who "A source" was?

OK, I'll bite.  I'm a little surprised that the heavy duty researchers, you post with, did not give (or label) the source:

For the first time, police are investigating information from several sources that a panic-stricken Joran confessed to his father Paulus that Natalee died accidentally and that he fed her body to the sharks.

Two of those sources are Jim Dooley, a South Carolina job recruiter for the health care industry, and his wife, Bella.

In an exclusive interview, the Dooleys said they contacted the FBI after learning of Joran's confession to his dad during a shopping trip to a clothing store in Charlotte, N.C. The date was June 11, just a few days after Aruba police had arrested Joran and the Kalpoe brothers as "persons of interest" in the case.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315

[Blue Moon]

Article posted at GM along with a credit to the MajorWager site because according to Vicki (VMS) at GM the original article link is no longer available. 

Here is the link to the original article in the NYPost.  It took me approximately 2 minutes to find it.  My point in all this is some people don't research and some people do:

http://www.nypost.com/gossip/archives/2005/07/20050713_aruba+suspect+no+poker+face.htm

Aruba suspect no poker face
 
July 13, 2005 --

JORAN Van Der Sloot, the prime suspect in the disappearance in Aruba of vacationing Alabama teen Natalee Holloway, is already guilty - of being a lousy poker player. Van Der Sloot, the 17-year-old son of an Aruban justice official, is being held in connection with the vanishing of 18-year-old Holloway. He was a bad bluffer and lost big during a Texas Hold 'Em tournament on the Caribbean island back in April. Miami club impresario Tommy Pooch, who played next to Van Der Sloot for more than two hours, tells us the Dutch-born youth "was as nice as can be, but he was a terrible poker player. "He kept buying back in, and finally he got knocked out when they stopped buy-ins," Pooch said. "He was a terrible bluffer . . . He was a young, excitable kid. He wore the sunglasses and the baseball cap like they do on TV, but even that didn't help." Van Der Sloot must have had a habit of losing money in the poker room of the Holiday Inn-Aruba. "It seemed like everyone knew him there," Pooch said. "It was his hangout. He knew all the dealers by name. He was a local yokel." Last week, an Aruba judge released two brothers held as suspects in the disappearance of Holloway, but ordered that Van Der Sloot be kept in custody for another 60 days. Holloway was last seen around 1 a.m. on May 30 leaving a local nightclub with Van Der Sloot and his buddies Satish Kalpoe, 18, and his brother Deepak, 21. It was the last day of Holloway's high school graduation trip with her classmates. This week's National Enquirer advances the theory that Van Der Sloot confessed to his father that he dumped Holloway's body in shark-infested waters after she accidentally hit her head and drowned in an Ecstasy-induced stupor on an Aruban beach. A source told the tabloid that Van Der Sloot and Holloway went swimming together after meeting at the club and taking drugs together. "Natalee fell, hit her head on a rock and drowned," the Enquirer quotes its source. "In a drug-and-alcohol induced panic, Joran felt he had no other choice but to dispose of Natalee's body in the sea." Van Der Sloot has not been charged, and his family maintains his innocence.

Anyone know who "A source" was?

OK, I'll bite.  I'm a little surprised that the heavy duty researchers, you post with, did not give (or label) the source:

For the first time, police are investigating information from several sources that a panic-stricken Joran confessed to his father Paulus that Natalee died accidentally and that he fed her body to the sharks.

Two of those sources are Jim Dooley, a South Carolina job recruiter for the health care industry, and his wife, Bella.

In an exclusive interview, the Dooleys said they contacted the FBI after learning of Joran's confession to his dad during a shopping trip to a clothing store in Charlotte, N.C. The date was June 11, just a few days after Aruba police had arrested Joran and the Kalpoe brothers as "persons of interest" in the case.

http://www.nationalenquirer.com/crime/63315

Thanks Buckeye.  I just logged in to post the same thing you just did.  I for one believe that story told by friends of the Van Der Sloots from N.C.

[Blue Moon]

Let me clarify, I believe Paulus told this story to the friends in NC, not that I believe it totally true.  I do believe the rocks, falling and hurting herself, Freddy (I think) who told of her running, falling, until she didn't get up anymore.  There are bits of truth in some stories told and the falling and hurting herself is that one bit of truth a lot of people told over and over. JMO

[Buckeye]

BlueMoon

I always thought it odd that Paulus would discus the case with those in NC.  But then, I remembered that the Sloots sent (took?) the younger boys to the states "for safety".  There could be a group of stateside friends that were told the story or perhaps Val told the story to them. I do think Joran's first lie, at school may have been to account for the head injury.  He may have been afraid Natalee would have been found....he didn't give her drugs...they took them...he didn't hit her in the head...she hit her head....she was by the beach (until she was moved out further) because they were swimming...he makes a story up for every "real" issue.

[Blue Moon]

BlueMoon

I always thought it odd that Paulus would discus the case with those in NC.  But then, I remembered that the Sloots sent (took?) the younger boys to the states "for safety".  There could be a group of stateside friends that were told the story or perhaps Val told the story to them. I do think Joran's first lie, at school may have been to account for the head injury.  He may have been afraid Natalee would have been found....he didn't give her drugs...they took them...he didn't hit her in the head...she hit her head....she was by the beach (until she was moved out further) because they were swimming...he makes a story up for every "real" issue.

I think telling the story to friends in N.C. by Paulus was an attempt by him to explain the severe injury that would have been found once her body was recovered.  Same with the lie told about her falling getting out of the car at the Holiday Inn.  You are right, bits of truth spun into all the lies.  And the truth was too BAD to be told hence the coverup by ALE because the true story of what happened to Natalee would have sunk their island.  That's why the coverup is worth it, the truth is worse than the coverup.

[msmarple]

Hi Monkeys, good morning and Happy Saturday.

This is probably old hat by now, but thought I would throw it out there.

I watched a re-run of a “Law and Order – Criminal Intent” episode a few nights ago. There were jaw-dropping similarities to Natalee’s case – with the glaring difference that of course NY’s finest found the body and solved the case. (Well, it IS a TV show.)

* A high school girl (age 16) didn’t show up to return home from a several-day class Field Trip to NYC.

* She was “placed” as last seen with a NYC boy, at an outing the class went to the night before – to one of those laser tech places.

* He had seen her earlier that day, when the class went to the NY Public Library.

* The teen-aged NYC boy, still a juvenile, son of a judge, was the immediate suspect.

* The judge told his wife and son, “No body, no case”.

Turned out the son drugged and procured her for sex. Took her home. After he went to bed, the judge had at her.

Wasn’t the first time the son and his father shared a female. (There was, indeed, a previous unsolved case of a missing girl, that was subsequently tied to the same suspects.)

In this case, the mother/wife found the judge and the girl in the judge’s study at home.
 
I *think* the girl had died of an overdose – I missed the actual cause of death.

The mother/wife disposed of the body, attempting to protect (primarily) her son. (I will say that apparently the son did not know the girl had died until later.)

All three were arrested – I *think* manslaughter for the drugging, kidnapping, statutory rape, accomplice, other related charges.

It was as though the writers KNEW of Natalee’s case, and did a spin on it for L&O.

[Tamikosmom]

Jug Twitty's friend ... viet vet ... claims that the "assistant" headmaster told him and others that Joran had hit Natalee with a baseball bat and ... that Joran had slept at the school.  The sleeping at the school turned out to be true ...

Who was the "assistant" headmaster?

Janet

++++++++++

viet vet
FP comments
December 6, 2006

66.  viet vet on December 6th, 2006 8:11 pm
Speaking of off the record comments, we were told were to find Joran at the International School on a Friday , June 2 or 3, have it in my notes. Was also told Joran hit Natalee with an aluminum baseball bat…in the head. The same man told me both stories and guess what, Joran was at the International School that day, hiding. He was sleeping over there rather than home,,, scared he was. The fine Aruba Police followed us to the school that day or maybe we would already have solved this case. Yeah Karin, a bounch of cowboys…

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2006/12/06/diario-they-went-into-panic-when-natalee-remained-passed-out/


Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Pages 81/82:  We go back to the hotel to update the new group of men on all that has transpired since we first arrived on the island.  The come up with the idea to try to find Joran va der Sloot at his school to see if they can talk with him directly.  Bill, Charlie, Mitch, and Jeff head to the International School of Aruba and leave the rest of us at the hotel to continue tracking leads.  Upon their arrival, they encounter the assistant headmaster, who takes them to the office.  As he leads them, they ask if Joran attends this school.  "Yes, yes.  And he has been sleeping here."  Surprised that he offers this, they store this information and make their way to the office ...

[Buckeye]

Hi Monkeys, good morning and Happy Saturday.

This is probably old hat by now, but thought I would throw it out there.

I watched a re-run of a “Law and Order – Criminal Intent” episode a few nights ago. There were jaw-dropping similarities to Natalee’s case – with the glaring difference that of course NY’s finest found the body and solved the case. (Well, it IS a TV show.)

* A high school girl (age 16) didn’t show up to return home from a several-day class Field Trip to NYC.

* She was “placed” as last seen with a NYC boy, at an outing the class went to the night before – to one of those laser tech places.

* He had seen her earlier that day, when the class went to the NY Public Library.

* The teen-aged NYC boy, still a juvenile, son of a judge, was the immediate suspect.

* The judge told his wife and son, “No body, no case”.

Turned out the son drugged and procured her for sex. Took her home. After he went to bed, the judge had at her.

Wasn’t the first time the son and his father shared a female. (There was, indeed, a previous unsolved case of a missing girl, that was subsequently tied to the same suspects.)

In this case, the mother/wife found the judge and the girl in the judge’s study at home.
 
I *think* the girl had died of an overdose – I missed the actual cause of death.

The mother/wife disposed of the body, attempting to protect (primarily) her son. (I will say that apparently the son did not know the girl had died until later.)

All three were arrested – I *think* manslaughter for the drugging, kidnapping, statutory rape, accomplice, other related charges.

It was as though the writers KNEW of Natalee’s case, and did a spin on it for L&O.

I remember that and I always thought that Joran contacted Anita.  That bit about Paulus with Anita's phone was just a little too convenient, for me. I also remember Paulus saying he was worried that they would come to get him, Anita....or one of the other children.  Why would he be worried about that??

[Blue Moon]

Hi Monkeys, good morning and Happy Saturday.

This is probably old hat by now, but thought I would throw it out there.

I watched a re-run of a “Law and Order – Criminal Intent” episode a few nights ago. There were jaw-dropping similarities to Natalee’s case – with the glaring difference that of course NY’s finest found the body and solved the case. (Well, it IS a TV show.)

* A high school girl (age 16) didn’t show up to return home from a several-day class Field Trip to NYC.

* She was “placed” as last seen with a NYC boy, at an outing the class went to the night before – to one of those laser tech places.

* He had seen her earlier that day, when the class went to the NY Public Library.

* The teen-aged NYC boy, still a juvenile, son of a judge, was the immediate suspect.

* The judge told his wife and son, “No body, no case”.

Turned out the son drugged and procured her for sex. Took her home. After he went to bed, the judge had at her.

Wasn’t the first time the son and his father shared a female. (There was, indeed, a previous unsolved case of a missing girl, that was subsequently tied to the same suspects.)

In this case, the mother/wife found the judge and the girl in the judge’s study at home.
 
I *think* the girl had died of an overdose – I missed the actual cause of death.

The mother/wife disposed of the body, attempting to protect (primarily) her son. (I will say that apparently the son did not know the girl had died until later.)

All three were arrested – I *think* manslaughter for the drugging, kidnapping, statutory rape, accomplice, other related charges.

It was as though the writers KNEW of Natalee’s case, and did a spin on it for L&O.

To me it wouldn't be too far a stretch to envision that Anita came home from the NL and cleaned up the mess her son and dear hubby made with BOTH their involvement in this.  Anita cannot control either her son or her husband but I can picture her going to any means possible to "make this go away" and I also believe it would have been her influence that affected the outcome of this case more so than her failure husband who was not a judge (just a judge in training).  So to me this scenario would not have been too far a stretch to image.  I have always believed with Anita away Paulus played and inserted himself in the games his son and friends were playing and I would think this wasn't the first time it had happened (it happened 20 times before).  Joran and his elite friends learned this game from someone before them and I say they all learned it from their fathers.  This whole thing (to me) appears to be a rite of passage into adulthood and I believe it went terribly wrong.

[Tamikosmom]

Hi Monkeys, good morning and Happy Saturday.

This is probably old hat by now, but thought I would throw it out there.

I watched a re-run of a “Law and Order – Criminal Intent” episode a few nights ago. There were jaw-dropping similarities to Natalee’s case – with the glaring difference that of course NY’s finest found the body and solved the case. (Well, it IS a TV show.)

* A high school girl (age 16) didn’t show up to return home from a several-day class Field Trip to NYC.

* She was “placed” as last seen with a NYC boy, at an outing the class went to the night before – to one of those laser tech places.

* He had seen her earlier that day, when the class went to the NY Public Library.

* The teen-aged NYC boy, still a juvenile, son of a judge, was the immediate suspect.

* The judge told his wife and son, “No body, no case”.

Turned out the son drugged and procured her for sex. Took her home. After he went to bed, the judge had at her.

Wasn’t the first time the son and his father shared a female. (There was, indeed, a previous unsolved case of a missing girl, that was subsequently tied to the same suspects.)

In this case, the mother/wife found the judge and the girl in the judge’s study at home.
 
I *think* the girl had died of an overdose – I missed the actual cause of death.

The mother/wife disposed of the body, attempting to protect (primarily) her son. (I will say that apparently the son did not know the girl had died until later.)

All three were arrested – I *think* manslaughter for the drugging, kidnapping, statutory rape, accomplice, other related charges.

It was as though the writers KNEW of Natalee’s case, and did a spin on it for L&O.

msmarple ... thank you.

I wish I had seen this episode of L&O.  To tell the truth ... I have seldom watch television.  The news is where it is at for the most part.

I believe that a "fictional" book that mimics the Natalee Holloway story based on the Aruban coverup research that has been accumulated ... could reveal the truth without fear of any lawsuit.

The timeline of the story could extend from the moment a graduation class from a fictional country arrives on a fiction Island for a four day getaway and ... extends to the ultimate betrayal of the fictional victim by one of her own.

I am getting ideas.

 

Good Morning Monkeys.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Me too, but I think she needs a partner!   




 

 

[msmarple]

Janet,

I don't watch much TV either, and that was another bizarre thing about seeing something so amazingly similar ... the story opened  with the class gathering in front of their hotel, at the bus door, and telling a chaperone about the missing girl. It certainly grabbed my attention. Someone even had her luggage ready!

[Tamikosmom]

Loving Natalee -  Beth Holloway
.
Page 207:  I tell these students "You're at the age where your parents have loosened the reins.  You're breaking out on your own, excited about your newfound independence.  And somewhere  caught between that healthy fear of danger your parents taught you, and complacency.  You're too old to be guarded by your mom and dad, and too young not to be reminded that there are dangerous people and dangerous places in the world."

The best thing I can ask these students to do is protect themselves by initiating a full-circle safety plan -- no matter where they are.

"You are responsible for your own safety now.  Your parents aren't going to be around anymore to watch over you" I tell them explaining that once Natalee got into that car she was at the mercy of her perpetrators and could no longer protect herself.

"Your safety plan must come full circle.  You must pay as much attention to how you plan to end your evenings as you spend deciding what you're going to wear and who you're going out with.  A full-circle safety plan is something you have to take responsibility for."

What if Natalee had made a plan with her friends that they would all leave together at the end of the night?  What if she and a friend had set a time and place to meet before they left the establishment?  What if ...