Natalee Case Discussion #818 4/30/09 - 5/17/09

[2NJSons_Mom]

Updated Timeline:


Part 1:  1985 - 11/20/2007

Part 2:  11/20/2007 - 12/21/2007

Part 3:  12/22/2007 - 12/31/2007

Part 4:  01/01/2008 - 01/31/2008

Part 5:  02/01/2008 - 02/28/2008

Part 6:  03/01/2008 - 05/06/2008

Part 7:  05/08/2008 - 11/10/2008

Part 8:  11/14/2008 - Present


Uh, Klaas & TheAmazingMods...      I made a mess!   

Can you delete from Reply #1 through Reply #13 in the Timeline thread?  The current version actually begins with Reply #14, it's just hard to tell that!   



There's still a lot to add, both old and new, like the outing of CLW, new Oil/Gas connections, etc.  This format should keep it easier for us to keep adding to it though.

On we go... 

Lifesong,

Great job on the timeline, I have yet to go through it all, but did see you were working on it today. 

I'll check with Klaas about the cleanup request.  It hadn't been done when I just checked. 

[klaasend]

Updated Timeline:


Part 1:  1985 - 11/20/2007

Part 2:  11/20/2007 - 12/21/2007

Part 3:  12/22/2007 - 12/31/2007

Part 4:  01/01/2008 - 01/31/2008

Part 5:  02/01/2008 - 02/28/2008

Part 6:  03/01/2008 - 05/06/2008

Part 7:  05/08/2008 - 11/10/2008

Part 8:  11/14/2008 - Present


Uh, Klaas & TheAmazingMods...      I made a mess!   

Can you delete from Reply #1 through Reply #13 in the Timeline thread?  The current version actually begins with Reply #14, it's just hard to tell that!   



There's still a lot to add, both old and new, like the outing of CLW, new Oil/Gas connections, etc.  This format should keep it easier for us to keep adding to it though.

On we go... 

Lifesong,

Great job on the timeline, I have yet to go through it all, but did see you were working on it today. 

I'll check with Klaas about the cleanup request.  It hadn't been done when I just checked. 

Great job.  I think I cleaned everything up.  Hope I didn't delete something I shouldn't have. 

[Keepthefaith]

I wonder what happened to Disetti??????

[Lifesong]

Lifesong,

Great job on the timeline, I have yet to go through it all, but did see you were working on it today. 

I'll check with Klaas about the cleanup request.  It hadn't been done when I just checked. 

Great job.  I think I cleaned everything up.  Hope I didn't delete something I shouldn't have. 

Looks good!  Thank you, guys!!

[2NJSons_Mom]

I wonder what happened to Disetti??????

Maybe Muisje & Cageman won the tag team match.     

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[Lifesong]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

Thank you, Texasmom!!   

[texasmom]

YW Lifesong!  Thank you for all your work on the timeline!   

[Keepthefaith]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

 

                                JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

                                     GOODNIGHT & GOD BLESS
 
                                              KEEPTHEFAITH

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

 

                                JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

                                     GOODNIGHT & GOD BLESS
 
                                              KEEPTHEFAITH

Good Night and God Bless you too, KTF! 

[jen3560]

Art,

You are asking one of the big mysteries in all of this.  I don't think anyone knows or understands why they would prefer the company and to deal with those particular individuals.

 

it was the catalyst that ended up creating the Freebirds so there was a benefit.

 

[jen3560]

I'm not so sure about Shaefer, perhaps at the beginning he might have been a dupee but I think by the time the Arubans were all over the Persistence he could no longer be unaware. At some point he became complicit.

Even if you remove the question of whether it was Natalee in the trap or not.........Silvetti was never in this to find her. It was just one more fly-over like the dutch jets, except this time Aruba chose to make it appear to be totally unrelated to Aruban resources or LE or powers that be. I 'think' that's because even Aruba realizes their credibility was shot.

That PO box in Kemah requesting donations prior to the Persistence leaving the US - registered to Louis Schaefer, the man who was "paying for this on his own, out of the kindness of his heart - is what leads me to believe he was not interested in doing the right thing.

Then there is also the sudden, and last minute switcheroo of the ship that was to go to Aruba.

Why did that happen, I wonder............

[jen3560]

Art,

You are asking one of the big mysteries in all of this.  I don't think anyone knows or understands why they would prefer the company and to deal with those particular individuals.

 

it was the catalyst that ended up creating the Freebirds so there was a benefit.

 

The stench from BFN was overwhelming. And disgusting. There was no way for 'logic' to apply.

There was no way for reasonable discussion to take place.

There was no way that Justice for Natalee was EVER going to be found in that $hithole.

Poor Dave. His own wife 


AVOID ARUBA AS IF YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON IT...IT DOES!!
Justice for Natalee Holloway
Peace for her family and loved ones

 

Bless the Monkeys -- for keepin' on keepin' on 

Love you Sharon.  And I miss you, my friend!!!

[jen3560]

She also could have requested the FBI to ACTIVELY investigate and give direction.  Many, many countries, bigger than Aruba have requested the FBI....and not as observers.

She was also ORDERED by Oduber to turn all information over to the FBI, and to let them in fully.

Yet she never did.

[jen3560]

It could be that the "little" fish were not aware of the dynamics of the Aruban coverup.  I think that Kyle Kingman was a "little" fish until he was informed by Monkeys ... by Private Eye.
Think about it.  If Tim M. and Dave Holloway went into this venture without any preparation for FBI backup in the event that a trap which appeared to contain human remains were discovered in Aruban waters... the "little" fish probably ... along with Kyle Kingman ... took their cue from these men in the know and also trusted the Aruban divers ... the Aruban authoriites.

I believe that Kyle Kingman's education ... regarding the far reaching dynamics encompassing the Natalee Holloway case in regards to the coverup ... was obtained through a crash course from Monkeys ... from Private Eye.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.

Janet - I can't give Kyle a pass on this one.  He was given a heads up personally, by me, before the Persistence ever arrived in Aruba about the lack of integrity on the part of Aruba - their government as well as their law officials.

He claimed to already be aware of that.

[jen3560]

OK..........So I  keep going back and forth between what I am supposed to be doing (Unpacking and packing boxes    ) and poppin in here.

There are so many things about the Persistence endeavor that just don't add up.  Today, I keep thinking about CLW's post about having been down to the trap himself, and the fact that if it was evidence, why it's still there.  Good question.

What's rollin around in my head is that if CLW has been there, supposedly after the Persistence.....who knows how many folks, including CLW,  have been down there prior to the arrival of Persistence? Taking into account that there is the "guy and his brother who had the vision" about the location of the trap.  What are the chances that this discovery was made by Persistence so soon after their arrival, first of targets identified, to dive on?  Nothing there according to Tim T.  Dave and Tim Miller and Dateline all leave the ship.  Then, dive is made, turn it all over to Aruba, run out of money, and head for home.  Oh, and don't provide evidence to the FBI or the family.

It's just a crackpot story.  Or maybe a crockpot.

 

     

Don't forget - go and map search out in deeper waters for nearly 2 more months before "running out of money" and heading for home.

[jen3560]

Now that we know about the CLW Mark Purcell/ATA/AHATA connection, what I'm wondering is when the mission of the Persistence became tainted? 

 

Helen - my thoughts (though I cannot prove anything.............YET) is that this mission became tainted long before they ever even arrived in Aruba.

Remember - LEAK said Jug was aware that the Persistence's main purpose was oil related.

Remember - the Persistence took the place of two other ships that were to be going - and this happened at the last minute of preparations.

[oldiebutgoodie]

Now that we know about the CLW Mark Purcell/ATA/AHATA connection, what I'm wondering is when the mission of the Persistence became tainted? 

 

Helen - my thoughts (though I cannot prove anything.............YET) is that this mission became tainted long before they ever even arrived in Aruba.

Remember - LEAK said Jug was aware that the Persistence's main purpose was oil related.

Remember - the Persistence took the place of two other ships that were to be going - and this happened at the last minute of preparations.

Jen, I don't know why Persistence thought they had to hide their other purpose in being in Aruban waters. Trying to make a buck and/or mapping out oil exploration targets isn't exactly E-V-I-L. So why not be up front about it from the get-go? I think they made a serious tactical and credibility error right there in not being totally honest about their purpose.

Multi-tasking is not a heinous crime so it really wasn't necessary to hide the fact that they were doing other things in addition to "Oh, by the way, if we happen to run across any bodies we'll let you know..."

Why did they set themselves up this way to be exposed as the exploiters of the memory of a dead girl and the heartbreak of her parents?

And even being nasty exploiters like that, they still probably had little criminal liability for what they did UNTIL they began soliciting money from the general public to finance their endeavor for ONE purpose when, once that purpose had been dispensed with, they still remained for yet ANOTHER purpose. At that point, they had no right to ask for money to search for Natalee if, in fact, they were pretty sure that the last time they saw "Natalee," she was being sped away in baggies in an Aruban LE boat.

I would like to see Aruban LE bring forth in a public press conference the contents of those baggies and having allowed FBI forensics experts to examine said contents, explain what they are. Why hasn't Aruba done this? You would think they would be especially keen to do that if they knew they did NOT have any human remains in those baggies.

And why would any individual or group of people, online and off, react with not mere hostility but something approaching full-on rage and stalking behavior against American citizens (and others) who just followed the Logic Trail to see where it would lead? I can't even think of people like that as being "fellow Natalee supporters" because I now suspect they never were. I think it's becoming pretty obvious that scum like that never was in it for Natalee and her family. Creating discord and dissension seems to have been their main goal and I can't even pity the once-genuine Natalee supporters who've fallen in line with the scum because the truth has been in front of their eyes for a long time now. They know better. Sure they do.

Just ranting here, I guess. But, it is Monday morning and my arthritis medication hasn't kicked in yet so I'm not of a mind to skirt around B.S. - I feel like clobbering it head-on.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Some of this discussion about the ocean search reminded me of a statement I thought Tim Miller made about the search being planned since 2006.  I was just listening to Dana Pretzer's radio shows from 2007, interviews with Tim Miller, Jossy Mansur, Dave & Robin Holloway.  In the one from early June, 2007 Tim mentions Schaefer being involved in oil fields internationally.  If anyone else has the time and is interested, here is the link to them.

http://scaredmonkeysradio.com/category/guests/tim-miller/page/2/

[Lifesong]

Good Morning, Monkeys!


I've taken my crash course in Mark Purcell by reading through the thread that Tamikosmom linked.

Yuck! 

Not much I didn't already know about from talk on the main threads, and it reinforced why I've avoided letting that garbage into my head all these years.  I can't imagine the effect of reading that kind of vitriol on a daily basis. 

I am left a bit confused on just one point - I know that MIP6 and Doc Holladay are both Mark Purcell, but I'm not sure if Reality is Mark Purcell as well or someone else?  Sorry if that's a stupid question...I'd honestly rather remain ignorant of this miscreant, Purcell, but it seems that like Hotshot, he just cannot stop inserting himself into the case.