Natalee Case Discussion #818 4/30/09 - 5/17/09

[Blue Moon]

Snip from Kermits post above:

johan555
Newbie

Re: The Cage
« Reply #161 on: Today at 12:46:47 pm »
But this is no all i have found about the content of the cage .
I have communicated with the directly involved and they told me there were No human remains in the Cage .
So we can close the whole cage case ,it is a dead end .
ndex.php?topic=980.150
...

So in other words Johan communicated with Kyle and KYLE said there were no human remains.  How stupid do they think we are---"we can close the whole cage case, it is a dead end".  How arrogant he is to tell US to close it, dead end?

[klaasend]

Snip from Kermits post above:

johan555
Newbie

Re: The Cage
« Reply #161 on: Today at 12:46:47 pm »
But this is no all i have found about the content of the cage .
I have communicated with the directly involved and they told me there were No human remains in the Cage .
So we can close the whole cage case ,it is a dead end .
ndex.php?topic=980.150
...

So in other words Johan communicated with Kyle and KYLE said there were no human remains.  How stupid do they think we are---"we can close the whole cage case, it is a dead end".  How arrogant he is to tell US to close it, dead end?

Johan claims to have emailed Dave Holloway.  My problem with this is how would Dave know what was in the cage when it was the Aruban's that took the evidence and not the Americans (according to Kyle).  So what was actually sent to the FBI? 

[Kermit]

No one knows what was in that fish trap.  Not Dave Holloway, not TIm Miller, not Beth because ALE was allowed sole access to the contents of it and allowed to abscond with those contents without so much as anyone from the Persistence being allowed to see the contents in reality.

We know what the FBI reported.  What we cannot know and neither can anyone else except those directly involved such as Dolphi Richardson, is what they actually sent to the FBI.

No one questions that the FBI reported back on no human remains.  What my question is and what the question of most thinking people is how do we know what ALE sent the FBI?

Some of us just don't take their word for much of anything.  Because the FBI was not sent human remains does NOT prove that there were none in the fish trap.  It only proves that ALE did not send the FBI any.

Anna you are exactly correct.

One of the major questions asked to Kyle was about the material sent to the FBI. Kyle stated he  had suspicions about the material being switched, in addition to his suspicions that the blue material was not sent nor tested. This coupled with the fact that all the evidence was retrieved by only Aruban divers while John Silvetti turned a blind eye.


Let's take the other side and let's say johan555's assertions that Dave Holloway told him in an email that there are no human remains in the trap and he learned this from the FBI.

* The FBI did not have the evidence turned over. It is in the hands of the Arubans!

*It completely contradicts what Kyle said.

* It completely gives any credibility to why Kyle, Louis Schaefer and Tim Trahan were trying to sell the images if no human remains were inside. 

The actions of ALL American's and Aruban's involved in that trap/cage clearly demonstrates
that something important was inside the cage.
No one can deny that.
No hermit crab is important enough to sell images of. It just did not happen the way johan555 has convinced himself of.

[crazybabyborg]

I'm just popping in to say hello................ and that you guys are really on a roll! Honestly, I don't think there is anything in this thread that ever stands without thorough examination, objective analysis, and absolute back-up. You all are amazing!

Hat Tip, Monkeys! 

[Anna]

Dave Holloway does not profess to know what was in the trap.  He says the FBI said what they were sent contained no human remains.

It's not the same thing at all as it is being portrayed to be.

And if I had to take the word alone of one person involved, it would be Tim Miller for me because he has seen the most remains of any of them.  He said it looked like remains and STILL looks like remains in his last interview.

Nothing he can do about it as the fix was in from the start to allow only ALE to have the contents.

[Blue Moon]

Snip from Kermits post above:

johan555
Newbie

Re: The Cage
« Reply #161 on: Today at 12:46:47 pm »
But this is no all i have found about the content of the cage .
I have communicated with the directly involved and they told me there were No human remains in the Cage .
So we can close the whole cage case ,it is a dead end .
ndex.php?topic=980.150
...

So in other words Johan communicated with Kyle and KYLE said there were no human remains.  How stupid do they think we are---"we can close the whole cage case, it is a dead end".  How arrogant he is to tell US to close it, dead end?

Johan claims to have emailed Dave Holloway.  My problem with this is how would Dave know what was in the cage when it was the Aruban's that took the evidence and not the Americans (according to Kyle).  So what was actually sent to the FBI? 

Is he emailing Dave or communicating with Robin thru BFN where he is a member there?  He appears very careful in saying Dave, almost like it is "almost" Dave he is communicating with but not actually Dave (as close to Dave as he will get is Robin). JMO

[klaasend]

BlueMoon - he makes it appear he has an email from Dave Holloway but who really knows for sure.  I don't really care.  It doesn't change things for me.  We do not know what was sent to the FBI so how can we trust the results?

[Anna]

Blue Moon,

He has a two line email he is tauting as being from Dave.  It says nothing except that the FBI reported no human remains in the contents of the trap that were sent to them.

So Dave gets rid of HotShot and now Johan is "bugging" him using the very word Dave used in regard to that bogus pond search.

[wreck]

Dave Holloway does not profess to know what was in the trap.  He says the FBI said what they were sent contained no human remains.

It's not the same thing at all as it is being portrayed to be.

And if I had to take the word alone of one person involved, it would be Tim Miller for me because he has seen the most remains of any of them.  He said it looked like remains and STILL looks like remains in his last interview.

Nothing he can do about it as the fix was in from the start to allow only ALE to have the contents.

And now Silvetti and Schaefer continue to "butter up" Tim by donating to TES! 

[Blue Moon]

BlueMoon - he makes it appear he has an email from Dave Holloway but who really knows for sure.  I don't really care.  It doesn't change things for me.  We do not know what was sent to the FBI so how can we trust the results?

No tests can be trusted IMO.  The pictures of the cage and the plastic bags containing the contents of the cage cannot be explained away by anyone.  If the cage didn't contain anything or remains then why did ALE bag up the contents and then retrieve them never to be seen again?  I don't believe Dave can explain that away and I do not think Dave would/could write in an email to a total stranger what he knows/believes to have happened that day of the dive.  I guess this is what irritates me so much about all this is WHY would Dave listen to all these nut cases who was not on Aruba when Natalee disappeared?    I think it is ludicrous of these people to be contacting him with this penny-anny foolish stuff they are bothering him with.

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle Kingman's had his doubts in regards to what the FBI were sent.  Logic dictates that the enemy who has prevented justice from prevailing since the getgo was not about to send the FBI anything Natalee Holloway case related.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally do not feel we should disregard the trap or it's contents until we know how that trap got there and what the nature of its contents were IMO.

[Blue Moon]

Blue Moon,

He has a two line email he is tauting as being from Dave.  It says nothing except that the FBI reported no human remains in the contents of the trap that were sent to them.

So Dave gets rid of HotShot and now Johan is "bugging" him using the very word Dave used in regard to that bogus pond search.

Did Johan post that email from Dave here or at GM or CnG?

[Tamikosmom]

Janet,

I cannot tolerate inconsistencies.  What I don't understand is that if Destiny truly feels that way about Robin, why would she rush to a forum that unequivocally supports Robin?

 

Just to post a questionable claim about SM?  We all know that the only one contacting Aruba claiming to represent SM is most likely Destiny herself.

I don't think anyone but Red can speak for SM.  And maybe Klaas.  Otherwise, it's just a poster who might happen to post here or who did at one time like Destiny.

But it confuses me as to her position on support for Robin and the Aruban trolls by her most recent action.  Also that of her Master of Ceremonies who is introducing her as though she is some great prize.

 

So does this mean they have done a 180 degree turn on this?  Maybe so given CLW connection so some of those very same trolls.

 

I think I recall Red, long ago, copyrighted his site for protection and anything posted on his site belongs to his copyrighted protection. Which means = all material posted on Red's site belongs to Mister Red. If I understand it correctly and/or remember it being discussed long ago correctly.

 

I hope not.

My research ... my posts ... are mine ... all mine.  Wherever and whenever I sincerely believe that my data posts assist infurthing the Natalee Holloway cause is where I will share.

Janet

[Anna]

Blue Moon,

He has a two line email he is tauting as being from Dave.  It says nothing except that the FBI reported no human remains in the contents of the trap that were sent to them.

So Dave gets rid of HotShot and now Johan is "bugging" him using the very word Dave used in regard to that bogus pond search.

Did Johan post that email from Dave here or at GM or CnG?

At GM for one place.  I haven't looked anywhere else for it.

As I said, it is all of two lines, lol.

Buggin Dave, yes he is.

[klaasend]

Blue Moon,

He has a two line email he is tauting as being from Dave.  It says nothing except that the FBI reported no human remains in the contents of the trap that were sent to them.

So Dave gets rid of HotShot and now Johan is "bugging" him using the very word Dave used in regard to that bogus pond search.

Did Johan post that email from Dave here or at GM or CnG?

It's posted at GM and BFN

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg17616#msg17616

[Anna]

Janet,

I cannot tolerate inconsistencies.  What I don't understand is that if Destiny truly feels that way about Robin, why would she rush to a forum that unequivocally supports Robin?

 

Just to post a questionable claim about SM?  We all know that the only one contacting Aruba claiming to represent SM is most likely Destiny herself.

I don't think anyone but Red can speak for SM.  And maybe Klaas.  Otherwise, it's just a poster who might happen to post here or who did at one time like Destiny.

But it confuses me as to her position on support for Robin and the Aruban trolls by her most recent action.  Also that of her Master of Ceremonies who is introducing her as though she is some great prize.

 

So does this mean they have done a 180 degree turn on this?  Maybe so given CLW connection so some of those very same trolls.

 

I think I recall Red, long ago, copyrighted his site for protection and anything posted on his site belongs to his copyrighted protection. Which means = all material posted on Red's site belongs to Mister Red. If I understand it correctly and/or remember it being discussed long ago correctly.

 

I hope not.

My research ... my posts ... are mine ... all mine.  Wherever and whenever I sincerely believe that my data posts assist infurthing the Natalee Holloway cause is where I will share.

Janet

Janet, I don't think that is what this means.  It means if you leave or are banned, you can't demand all your posts be deleted.  I am sure Red would approve of any posts being used with proper attribution to help find justice for Natalee.

However, Klass worked really hard on those PV's running them through translator after translator to be sure they were correct, etc.  And to have people just steal them the way they have is just not right.

So the way I understand it is once you give your posts to SM, you can't take them back.  You may post them elsewhere and keep copies on your computer, etc. but you can't demand SM remove them.

[klaasend]

The point is really very simple.  When you post something on the internet, especially in a public forum, the posts are now the property of "internets"    Once you've posted it it's very hard to take it back.  In the case of the forum, we don't remove posts in the forum simply because the member is banned or left.

[Blue Moon]

Blue Moon,

He has a two line email he is tauting as being from Dave.  It says nothing except that the FBI reported no human remains in the contents of the trap that were sent to them.

So Dave gets rid of HotShot and now Johan is "bugging" him using the very word Dave used in regard to that bogus pond search.

Did Johan post that email from Dave here or at GM or CnG?

It's posted at GM and BFN

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg17616#msg17616

Duh, am I slow or something?  The contents were not human according to the FBI.  The FBI only said the Fabric did not match Natalee's.  Logic says if fabric was tested that fabric belonged to a human at some point in time.  Fabric is not a by-product of the ocean floor.  The FBI cannot say what was in that cage except what they were sent to test and the only thing they tested was fabric which that fabric Had to have belonged to a human in real life.

[Tamikosmom]

FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008

ORANJESTAD, Aruba  —  An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by divers in about 90 feet of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the Aruban public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

Special Agent Ann Todd, a spokeswoman for the FBI Laboratory in Quantico, Va., said the lab could not comment on the case.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html

[Blue Moon]

I would like for Lisa, Johan and any others putting out lies about SM to SHOW where anyone on here ever said that the cage had Natalee's remains in there and the family knew it.  I believe all we have stated is most thought remains were in that cage BUT we would never know who those remains belong to because the Persistence crew/owner allowed ALE to dive on that cage and remove the entire contents of the cage without any accountability.  I am sick of their out and out lies.