Natalee Case Discussion #818 4/30/09 - 5/17/09

[jen3560]

Destiny's open letter to Robin Holloway is as pathetic as a chat I have with ******* talking about how much he hates both me and Debbie at BFN.

 

Should some "member" at BFN take that post of Destiny's over there and put it up.  Wonder how that would go over?

Oh, most of them read here anyway.  Remember this is the only forum where you can at least read without having to register and we don't have hidey holes.

I'm a member of bfn and I have never known them to have hidey holes.
I know you didn't suggest that Anna, just thought I'd set the record straight for those unfamiliar with bfn. 
 

Actually - they do have at least one hidey hole.

While I haven't read there in a few years, they used to have this area that showed what threads had the recent posts.

In that area, it used to show threads that were not open to the general members.

They fixed that in a hurry though! 

[Helen Back]

FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008

ORANJESTAD, Aruba  —  An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by divers in about 90 feet of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the Aruban public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

Special Agent Ann Todd, a spokeswoman for the FBI Laboratory in Quantico, Va., said the lab could not comment on the case.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html

All I read is that the FBI did not comment on the case. I just see the ARUBAN PROSECUTORS are the ones commenting on the FBI analysis. So who knows WHAT the FBI had?!?!? Do any of you trust what the Arubans say or do??????????????? 

Good morning monkeys,

I think this bears repeating.  The FBI cannot comment on the case.   All statements regarding FBI findings are suspect.


Helen Back

 

[klaasend]

Klaasend, is SM a US based website?
If so, they can't do anything. Because this is a Dutch thing now.

It was just with the PVV leader Wilders. He wanted to browse his footage of the docu "Fitna", he browsed it on a US website.
The Dutch government couldn't do anything then about it.... so...  ....

Yes DiSetti, SM is a US based website.  Johan is bluffing and doesn't have a leg to stand on. In simple terms, Johan is vol met troep.

[jen3560]

FBI Says Fabrics Found in Aruban Crab Trap Not From Holloway
Tuesday, February 26, 2008

ORANJESTAD, Aruba  —  An FBI analysis of fabric collected from a crab trap off Aruba showed the material did not match clothing worn by missing American Natalee Holloway, prosecutors said Tuesday.

The fabric was recovered in January by divers in about 90 feet of water as they searched for the body of the missing woman, the Aruban public prosecutor's office said in a statement.

The FBI compared the material to a blouse worn by Holloway, who was 18 when she disappeared on the final night of a high school graduation trip to the Dutch Caribbean island in May 2005. The results "showed that the two materials were not a match," the statement said.

Special Agent Ann Todd, a spokeswoman for the FBI Laboratory in Quantico, Va., said the lab could not comment on the case.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,332848,00.html

All I read is that the FBI did not comment on the case. I just see the ARUBAN PROSECUTORS are the ones commenting on the FBI analysis. So who knows WHAT the FBI had?!?!? Do any of you trust what the Arubans say or do??????????????? 

NO!!  I do not, have not, and likely will not trust what Aruban officials have to say about this case.

Kyle said:

After the Dateline broadcast and the results were claimed to be in, the FBI issues their statement which Mos uses for his press release claiming the fabric not a match to her blouse.
Interesting points to ponder:
1) Does the FBI statement really say anything at all in light of the evidence? - NO
2) Does the press release from Hans Mos say anything at all in light of the evidence? - NO
3) Do these statements say anything different to the press and therefore the public (family included)? - YES.
---

Kyle said:
I hope you're able to make sense of it... if it's related. I don't know why the time is so long between the sample date (7-Jan) and when the FBI claims to have received the items (22-Jan). Richardson claims to have personally sent the items immediately to the FBI. He didn't say anything about it being sent anywhere else. The FBI claims half the samples were sent to Holland for analysis. Richardson says the FBI got it all. The FBI says there were human remains (this is aside from the fabrics). - this is a big lurking question in the forums, whether or not there were human remains. To my understanding, there were indeed remains. The trap appeared to be badly scavenged, with items scattered radially away from the trap opening. Tim Trahan couldn't conclusively identify any bone inside the trap (hence the thumbs down). I couldn't see anything from the video other than the contested skull (which I have dubbed the caribbean skull-sponge).

I have my reservations about the trap we found coming from the fishermen huts, but it's certainly possible. The trap is almost straight out from Arashi in 90ft of water.

If it isn't her who is it?
I'm still convinced it is.
Stay the course. Lets keep moving forward.

Gob Bless,
~Kyle

[jen3560]

Blue Moon,

He has a two line email he is tauting as being from Dave.  It says nothing except that the FBI reported no human remains in the contents of the trap that were sent to them.

So Dave gets rid of HotShot and now Johan is "bugging" him using the very word Dave used in regard to that bogus pond search.

Did Johan post that email from Dave here or at GM or CnG?

It's posted at GM and BFN

http://goldmonkey.org/index.php?topic=980.msg17616#msg17616

I see he's using Copyscape.  The little I read about it seems to say to protect 'your site or blog' from plagarism.   If he posts at GM or elsewhere, is it his site or blog?         

Well I wonder how he reconciles his demand of klaas with his prior incessant posting of quotes from Natalee's Freebirds verbiage/documents here at SM without attributing so much as our blog addy?

 

(Not that we ever gave a flying fig - getting the facts out there was our whole purpose, regardless of how it was done)

[jen3560]

Daily Commentary - Friday, May 8th, 2009 - A Police Officer’s Prayer for Dana’s Dad
 
Today’s commentary is dedicated to Dana’s father, who passed away yesterday.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2009/05/08/daily-commentary-friday-may-8th-2009-a-police-officer%e2%80%99s-prayer-for-danas-dad/

Dana, we at SM are all saddened by your loss. Our hearts and prayers are with you.

Dana - I am terribly sorry for your loss, my heart and thoughts are with you!

[klaasend]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,519458,00.html

Mystery Surrounds U.S. Woman's Death in Thailand
Friday , May 08, 2009



BANGKOK —

Two young women — one from the United States and the other from Norway — died after suddenly falling ill within hours of each other at a guesthouse on a tourist resort island in southern Thailand.

Police said Thursday they did not know the cause of the deaths, though various theories have circulated, including food or alcohol poisoning and toxic fumes.

The two women were staying on Koh Phi Phi, a popular destination for budget travelers. The American was identified by her family as Jill St. Onge, 27, a bartender and artist from Seattle, who died Sunday.

Norwegian media and the Web newspaper Andaman Times identified the Norwegian as Julie Michelle Bergheim, 22. She died Monday.

Both women, who stayed at the Laleena guesthouse but were not known to have been in contact with each other, suffered severe vomiting and stomach pains.

Another 19-year-old Norwegian woman staying with Bergheim also fell ill with the same symptoms but survived. She was recovering in intensive care at a hospital.

Doctors said the women died at a hospital on Phi Phi "due to dehydration and shock," Police Capt. Pantanan Santhong said.

"Right now, we do not have any further information on what happened and how it happened," Pantanan said. "We are investigating."

The bodies were taken to the Thai capital Bangkok for autopsies but no results were available Thursday.

St. Onge's fiance, Ryan Kells, who was with her, said in a blog entry they both became sick after eating dinner together, though he recovered.

Few details were available about Bergheim, who Norwegian media said came from Drammen, near Oslo. "I don't know if it was something she ate or if it was because she went out to party," guesthouse owner Asan Buntam said.

Just wondering where Joran is?

[DiSetti]

Morning monkeys
Good afternoon Bastibro

Klaasend I thought so that Johan was bluffing.
I was searching some info about him... but still not what I wanted... But I will try...

[Helen Back]

For the record, I believe there were human remains in the trap.  Tim Miller's experience in the finding of human human remains cannot be denied.  The fact that the Aruba divers bagged evidence and took off with it, and that Kyle was trying to sell the footage would indicate an important finding.

My problem is this.  Who would Kyle have gotten the information from regarding whether or not there were human remains?

snipped from Jen's post:
Richardson says the FBI got it all. The FBI says there were human remains (this is aside from the fabrics). - this is a big lurking question in the forums, whether or not there were human remains. To my understanding, there were indeed remains.

So Dolph Richardson shared the results of FBI testing with Kyle?  And those findings are that there were human remains in the trap.  According to Kyle, Silvetti did not believe that the cage was even related to Natalee's disappearance. Silvetti must have been very surprised to hear of these results, since he just dismissed the mission totallly and forfeited the contents to the Arubans. 

I have no problem holding Kyle to his own statements.  I just have problems with many of them.

[Tamikosmom]

I would like for Lisa, Johan and any others putting out lies about SM to SHOW where anyone on here ever said that the cage had Natalee's remains in there and the family knew it.  I believe all we have stated is most thought remains were in that cage BUT we would never know who those remains belong to because the Persistence crew/owner allowed ALE to dive on that cage and remove the entire contents of the cage without any accountability.  I am sick of their out and out lies.

Blue Moon

Bottom Line!

Dialogue posted on the SM forum in regards to the happenings on board the Persistence and ... happenings encompassing the recovery of the trap are based on Kyle Kingman's own words.  Dialogue encompassing the contents of the trap are also based on Kyle Kingman's own words.

When Kyle Kingman's presence on board the Persistence is considered and ... when Kyle Kingman's field of expertise is considered ... some Monkeys are inclined to believe that a John Silvetti participated with Aruba to further the coverup that has denied Natalee Holloway justice since May 30, 2005.

Johan should have emailed Kyle Kingman's own words to Dave Holloway and ... asked his opinion.

Kyle Kingman's own words are the issue!

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

REMINDER

2007

THE OCEAN SEARCH FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

In mid December of 2007 a crew of Americans on board a vessel named The Persistence begins a search for Natalee Holloway's remains in the waters off Aruba.  On Christmas Day a discovery is made while sonar scanning the ocean floor.  The discovery was a large fish trap.  On December 29th an ROV is ultilized to capture images of what is contained within.

Kyle Kingman, the ROV operator and remote analysis on board the Persistence, came to the conclusion that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been placed within that trap.

However, on a December 30, 2007, Aruban divers claimed that their investigation revealed there was nothing related to the Natalee Holloway case inside the trap.

John Silvetti, the Project Lead on board the Persistence, accepted the words of the Aruban divers unconditionally.   
______


The Persistence - Key Personnal

John Silvetti - Project Lead and Key Contributor- Responsible for overall project planning and development. Owner of Marine Surveys, LLC . Donated the R/V Persistence for the search effort.
http://silvettigroup.com/

Kyle Kingman - Field Project Manager, Geophysical Engineer and Marine Geologist - Responsible for side scan sonar acquisition, digital processing, analysis, and target identification. Kyle will assist in side scan sonar operation and guide the ROV (remotely operated vehicle) team to each sonar target.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2007/11/mobilization.html


In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman:   I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand.

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising.

Kyle Kingman: Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman: What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility.

Kyle Kingman:  When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive.  He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection.

Kyle Kingman:  John (Silvetti) is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

[Tamikosmom]

REMINDER

2008

THE RECOVERY DIVE

On January 7, 2008 Aruban divers sampled and recovered the contents of the large fish trap disovered with sonar on the ocean floor off the coast of Aruba on Christmas Day, 2007 by the ROV operator and remote analyst on board the Persistence.

The crew of the Persistence were not involved in the recovery process ... only the Arubans.

________


In His Own Words

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman: They were immediately whisked away by the Aruban police and not seen of again by us on the 7th

Kyle Kingman:  The bags were deliberately placed there after the divers sampled the contents. The bags were removed just after the ROV got out of the way when the divers took the samples to their boat.... and took off.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains.

Kyle Kingman:  I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it. The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap. From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography. I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

[DiSetti]

I just found something, and it is called;

Internet Forum Wars.
http://internetforumwars.blogspot.com/

I found this a stupid site, only speculations.
I recommend you that you will keep in mind that  some monkey's will be mentioned here on this site by "truthordare".
The one that I also mentioned in the post with Capslock.

[Tamikosmom]

REMINDER

DISETTI / STUART / CAPSLOCKWIZARD COINCIDENCES-NO DISCUSSION

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4984.0

[DiSetti]

REMINDER

DISETTI / STUART / CAPSLOCKWIZARD COINCIDENCES-NO DISCUSSION

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4984.0

  why? if I may ask

[2NJSons_Mom]

I just found something, and it is called;

Internet Forum Wars.
http://internetforumwars.blogspot.com/

I found this a stupid site, only speculations.
I recommend you that you will keep in mind that  some monkey's will be mentioned here on this site by "truthordare".
The one that I also mentioned in the post with Capslock.

The sites you posted have all been brought to our attention either here or in the Musings thread.  Nothing new, imo. 

[DiSetti]

I just found something, and it is called;

Internet Forum Wars.
http://internetforumwars.blogspot.com/

I found this a stupid site, only speculations.
I recommend you that you will keep in mind that  some monkey's will be mentioned here on this site by "truthordare".
The one that I also mentioned in the post with Capslock.

The sites you posted have all been brought to our attention either here or in the Musings thread.  Nothing new, imo. 

Sorry didn't knew  that. But also the things I send about capslock, was also brought to you're attention ? ?

[DiSetti]

Well sorry but I have to go now. . . .
I will be back on Monday.

Have a great week everyone ! 

[bastibro]

Well sorry but I have to go now. . . .
I will be back on Monday.

Have a great week everyone ! 

Wasn`t it DiSetti who told us he had no pc at home?
I find that very hard to believe

[2NJSons_Mom]

I just found something, and it is called;

Internet Forum Wars.
http://internetforumwars.blogspot.com/

I found this a stupid site, only speculations.
I recommend you that you will keep in mind that  some monkey's will be mentioned here on this site by "truthordare".
The one that I also mentioned in the post with Capslock.

The sites you posted have all been brought to our attention either here or in the Musings thread.  Nothing new, imo. 

Sorry didn't knew  that. But also the things I send about capslock, was also brought to you're attention ? ?

Nothing new.