Lively Case Discussion #540 11/1 - 11/5/2006

[mrs. red]

Yes, as a mother, I know when one of my kids is lying and always could tell.  They figured this out pronto and learned they were in bigger trouble if they lied.  And every fiber in my being just screamed during that Greta interview that he was lying!

I am not a parent... but yes, it was obvious that he was lying !!

[mrs. red]

Good night Monkeys....

keep the faith...

gotta run but I will see y'all tomorrow!! Especially after I have the chance to hear the entire interview..

[Sue]

Klaas,
I am searching everywhere for that Joran/ Rooney  Comparison thread
you did ?? did someone take it down  

[Anna]

The website says if there is a great contrast in the two sides of the face, the person is more complicated.  In other words, the face they want to project and their real face are very different.  This photo is very small but I think you can see the big difference in the two sides.  The right side is much more cheerful and wide eyed innocent and the left looks rather devious.  IMO only.

[justinsmama]

That left eye thing of Joran, it is very odd. It shows up in quite a few of his photos. And his live interviews. But, what does that mean ?

That he is evil.  

[Anna]

Some of the time in that Greta interview, Joran appeared barely able to suppress a giggle.  And then he would get all wide-eyed and try to look younger than he normally does.  But with him, I definitely get the impression he is secretly if not openly smirking and he thinks he has really fooled a lot of people.

That is why I think JORAN.ANGRY! because he has some how learned deVries is not fooled.  Joran thought with Greta saying what she did, he was home free and totally believable.  Well, mommy believed him, didn't she?   Uncle Jan, Uncle Ben, Aunt Julia and Aunt Karen all believed him so it must come as a total shock to the kid that everybody knows he is lying.  If one lives in a total world of enablers, maybe they never learn to see themselves as other well might but only through supportive eyes.

Rude awakening!  He might as well be wearing a sign saying LIAR!

.

[klaasend]

Klaas,
I am searching everywhere for that Joran/ Rooney  Comparison thread
you did ?? did someone take it down  

It was a front page post

[Kat_Gram]

I do believe in this kind of stuff... reading the unsaid.
Recently, I was looking at the tape of the interview in NY where they were doing the interview with Mama and Papa Sloot. This was just after they were served and Joran was on his way. They are talking to Paulus... but look at Anita. Look at her face and body movements. Turn off the sound and just watch HER. She is getting quite worked up and you can see it and she hasn't said a word. Then she puts on the red coat and gets ino the cab. Before she goes, she comes back and give Papa a kiss I believe for the camera because her mind was on Joran and what was happening at the airport.  
I will certainly look at the left side of some faces this week ! !

[LilPuma]

I do believe in this kind of stuff... reading the unsaid.
Recently, I was looking at the tape of the interview in NY where they were doing the interview with Mama and Papa Sloot. This was just after they were served and Joran was on his way. They are talking to Paulus... but look at Anita. Look at her face and body movements. Turn off the sound and just watch HER. She is getting quite worked up and you can see it and she hasn't said a word. Then she puts on the red coat and gets ino the cab. Before she goes, she comes back and give Papa a kiss I believe for the camera because her mind was on Joran and what was happening at the airport.  
I will certainly look at the left side of some faces this week ! !

I agree there are a lot of things that give us good or bad impressions or make us believe/disbelieve someone.  We can't always articulate or aren't even aware of what it is, so we say it's a "feeling" or "instinct".  The problem is how does that translate in different cultures?  Even within the US, there are huge differences in body language, speech patterns and expressions/reactions.  How can you do this across cultural lines?  People who do business internationally often take classes to learn what to do or not do because of what it means in another country.

[Kat_Gram]

Politicians here have " media advisors " who know these things and tell them what not to do. How to stand, what hand movements to use and the whole package. All the unsaid things. The things that we pick up on a subliminal basis. How to appear sincere.
If there was zip to this stuff, then why media advisors or jury selection
experts ?

[San]

Some of the time in that Greta interview, Joran appeared barely able to suppress a giggle.  And then he would get all wide-eyed and try to look younger than he normally does.  But with him, I definitely get the impression he is secretly if not openly smirking and he thinks he has really fooled a lot of people.

That is why I think JORAN.ANGRY! because he has some how learned deVries is not fooled.  Joran thought with Greta saying what she did, he was home free and totally believable.  Well, mommy believed him, didn't she?   Uncle Jan, Uncle Ben, Aunt Julia and Aunt Karen all believed him so it must come as a total shock to the kid that everybody knows he is lying.  If one lives in a total world of enablers, maybe they never learn to see themselves as other well might but only through supportive eyes.

Rude awakening!  He might as well be wearing a sign saying LIAR!

.

I agree Anna.  He was smirking quite a few times.  If he felt a little pressure or that Greta was staring to hard he would pick up his water and take a sip to create a distraction.  JMO.

[Kat_Gram]

There was another technique and that was where do the eyes go ?
when the person is thinking of the answer they are going to give. Do they go up as if they are trying to find the visual or are the eyes looking straight ahead to repeat a pre rehersed lie ?  
Do you remember when they brought in the special juvenile investigators
to question Joran ? But, by then, he was not speaking, just would put his hands over his ears.

[Anna]

San,
He would even scoot back in the chair and sort of slump and look all big eyed as well, trying to look younger, smaller and more innocent.  I really believe he is a very practiced if not successful liar.

I remember at least once Arlene burst out laughing when she was dishing out her load of crap and I think some times Joran has come very close to doing so himself.  Then he reminds himself how this is all about poor Joran and can get all sad again just thinking about how it has impacted his own life.

Joran's right side face is much more open and actually looks larger than his scrunched up left side.  Even his unibrow seems lower on the left side.

.

[San]

San,
He would even scoot back in the chair and sort of slump and look all big eyed as well, trying to look younger, smaller and more innocent. I really believe he is a very practiced if not successful liar.

I remember at least once Arlene burst out laughing when she was dishing out her load of crap and I think some times Joran has come very close to doing so himself.  Then he reminds himself how this is all about poor Joran and can get all sad again just thinking about how it has impacted his own life.

Joran's right side face is much more open and actually looks larger than his scrunched up left side.  Even his unibrow seems lower on the left side.

.

You are right Anna.  How many times have we heard people say he is only 17.  He was trying to portray himself as this scared innocent 17 year old kid that Joe Tocopina kept on saying in all his interviews.

[Kat_Gram]

http://www.blifaloo.com/info/lies.php

here is a really good one... it mentions putting the barrier between the
you and the interviewer... a coffee cup...  in Joran's case, the water...

It also goes into where do the eyes go ?

[LilPuma]

Who was the last caller on Dana's show?  The one who talked about knowing when your kids are lying?  Is she a monkey?  


I'm going to read more on Glenna Trout's website.  Only problem is how can we be sure which side of the face is which in a photo on the Internet?
I did take notes on what she said about Dana.  If anyone needs them for reference.  

[klaasend]

Who was the last caller on Dana's show?  The one who talked about knowing when your kids are lying?  Is she a monkey?  


I'm going to read more on Glenna Trout's website.  Only problem is how can we be sure which side of the face is which in a photo on the Internet?
I did take notes on what she said about Dana.  If anyone needs them for reference.  

   

[LilPuma]

Who was the last caller on Dana's show?  The one who talked about knowing when your kids are lying?  Is she a monkey?  


I'm going to read more on Glenna Trout's website.  Only problem is how can we be sure which side of the face is which in a photo on the Internet?
I did take notes on what she said about Dana.  If anyone needs them for reference.  

   

Is that dumb?  I thought that between the camera, the uploading, the downloading and playing with it online, it could be reversed.  I think I can do that in my minimalist picture software.

[San]

One more picture of Joran's mug.  I bet this girl wishes she never met him

[Anna]

.
If you cover the right side of Joran's face and only look at the left, it almost looks like a different person.  

.