Natalee Case Discussion #819 5/17/09 - 6/10/09

[Keepthefaith]

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller have been aware from early one in regards to the underlying dynamics of the Aruban investigation which was preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee.  Dave authored a book ... "Corruption in Paradise".

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller were the key motivators behind the ocean search in Aruban waters by the Persistence.

Why was a safeguard not established in the planning stages of the endeavour … a safeguard which would assure that there would be an FBI present on board the Persistence to observe the chain of custody encompassing any significant find?

Logic dictates that without a safeguard of an FBI present established prior to entering Aruban waters … the outcome was a given.  Any find that was Natalee Holloway case related would only serve to further the Aruban cover up.

I do not believe for a minute that Tim Miller and/or Dave Holloway were involved in the John Silvetti betrayal revealed by Kyle Kingman's own words but ... considering the back ground knowledge both these men possessed regarding the perceived Aruban coverup ... I fail to comprehend.
 
Janet

++++++

BETH HOLLOWAY

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'  - January 12, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think that it was in the—in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that‘s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


KYLE KINGMAN – IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

This has to be one of the most troubling aspects for me in regards to the search.You can't tell me there weren't discussions in regards to having some type of LE on board,as well as protocol to ensure this EXACT thing didn't happen.If this type of conversation never took place,i would be shocked,to say the least!If the conversation did take place.Why no LE on that boat 24/7 until the search was done???...Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me????

[Anna]

KTF,

The FBI was never given even the courtesy of recognition in this investigation.  They would not have jurisdiction in Aruban waters as we have been told so very many times.

And I don't think Aruba would assign a member of LE 24/7 for four months for any reason.  What the Persistence did likely complies with the letter of the law.  I doubt much was discussed beforehand as they would have assumed that anything found would be divided or perhaps the agreement was that the FBI would do the testing even.  Which they did.

Could have been any number of ways to mislead about what would be done in the event something was actually located.

[Tamikosmom]

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller have been aware from early one in regards to the underlying dynamics of the Aruban investigation which was preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee.  Dave authored a book ... "Corruption in Paradise".

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller were the key motivators behind the ocean search in Aruban waters by the Persistence.

Why was a safeguard not established in the planning stages of the endeavour … a safeguard which would assure that there would be an FBI present on board the Persistence to observe the chain of custody encompassing any significant find?

Logic dictates that without a safeguard of an FBI present established prior to entering Aruban waters … the outcome was a given.  Any find that was Natalee Holloway case related would only serve to further the Aruban cover up.

I do not believe for a minute that Tim Miller and/or Dave Holloway were involved in the John Silvetti betrayal revealed by Kyle Kingman's own words but ... considering the back ground knowledge both these men possessed regarding the perceived Aruban coverup ... I fail to comprehend.
 
Janet

++++++

BETH HOLLOWAY

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'  - January 12, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think that it was in the—in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that‘s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


KYLE KINGMAN – IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

This has to be one of the most troubling aspects for me in regards to the search.You can't tell me there weren't discussions in regards to having some type of LE on board,as well as protocol to ensure this EXACT thing didn't happen.If this type of conversation never took place,i would be shocked,to say the least!If the conversation did take place.Why no LE on that boat 24/7 until the search was done???...Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me????

That letter of invitation from the Aruba to the FBI should have been in the possession of Louis Schaffer and John Silvetti prior to the Persistence planning stages.  I Aruban refused to afford an invitation to allow an FBI presence ... the search efforts should have been abandoned as a negative outcome was a given.

Keepthefaith ... even if an observing FBI agent was not on the Persistence 24/7 ... a letter of invitation from tAruba should have been on file so that the FBI presence could be requested if anything Natalee Holloway case related was located.

I am not letting Dave Holloway and Tim Miller off the hook for the eventual outcome ... not by a long shot ... they should have known better and acted accordingly but ... I believe that John Silvetti/Louis Schaeffer took full advantage of Dave and Tim's appeasing natures ... appeasing natures that tend to give those who appear to be assisting the benefit of the doubt.

Justice for Natalee as well as  accountability to those who donated to the undertaking dictated that those behind the scenes were qualified to make informed decisions.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

DECEMBER 30, 2007 -  TIM MILLER - A LIABILITY?

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: I know Tim (Miller) believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive. John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman:  On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it.

Kyle Kingman:  After the Dec 30th dive John [Silvetti] didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee.

Kyle Kingman: He (Tim Miller) stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Kyle Kingman:  I hadn't slept in 48 hours. I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John [Silvetti] assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks. Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

Kyle Kingman: We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap.

[Keepthefaith]

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller have been aware from early one in regards to the underlying dynamics of the Aruban investigation which was preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee.  Dave authored a book ... "Corruption in Paradise".

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller were the key motivators behind the ocean search in Aruban waters by the Persistence.

Why was a safeguard not established in the planning stages of the endeavour … a safeguard which would assure that there would be an FBI present on board the Persistence to observe the chain of custody encompassing any significant find?

Logic dictates that without a safeguard of an FBI present established prior to entering Aruban waters … the outcome was a given.  Any find that was Natalee Holloway case related would only serve to further the Aruban cover up.

I do not believe for a minute that Tim Miller and/or Dave Holloway were involved in the John Silvetti betrayal revealed by Kyle Kingman's own words but ... considering the back ground knowledge both these men possessed regarding the perceived Aruban coverup ... I fail to comprehend.
 
Janet

++++++

BETH HOLLOWAY

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'  - January 12, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think that it was in the—in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that‘s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


KYLE KINGMAN – IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

This has to be one of the most troubling aspects for me in regards to the search.You can't tell me there weren't discussions in regards to having some type of LE on board,as well as protocol to ensure this EXACT thing didn't happen.If this type of conversation never took place,i would be shocked,to say the least!If the conversation did take place.Why no LE on that boat 24/7 until the search was done???...Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me????

That letter of invitation from the Aruba to the FBI should have been in the possession of Louis Schaffer and John Silvetti prior to the Persistence planning stages.  I Aruban refused to afford an invitation to allow an FBI presence ... the search efforts should have been abandoned as a negative outcome was a given.

Keepthefaith ... even if an observing FBI agent was not on the Persistence 24/7 ... a letter of invitation from Aruba should have been on file so that the FBI presence could be requested if anything Natalee Holloway case related was located.

I am not letting Dave Holloway and Tim Miller off the hook for the eventual outcome ... not by a long shot ... they should have known better and acted accordingly but ... I believe that John Silvetti/Louis Schaeffer took full advantage of Dave and Tim's appeasing natures ... appeasing natures that tend to give those who appear to be assisting the benefit of the doubt.

Justice for Natalee as well as  accountability to those who donated to the undertaking dictated that those behind the scenes were qualified to make informed decisions.

Janet

In bolded.Agree 110%..Find the cage,Call the FBI,FBI fly's down to monitor the recovery of the Cage/Trap.Very Simple!

[nonesuche]

What if...

Kyle did the right thing.

What if...

The Persistence wasn't in it for the money and soley in it for Natalee.

What if...

The Persistence crew didn't turn over the fabric to Aruba.

What if..

Everyone just told the truth.

What if...

We stopped looking for the truth.

We wish for the first four.  The fifth is impossible.

I agree Sleuth and San.




I hope everyone is well, I've been really busy with work and family lately to post much.

Take care all  for Natalee.

[Blue Moon]

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller have been aware from early one in regards to the underlying dynamics of the Aruban investigation which was preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee.  Dave authored a book ... "Corruption in Paradise".

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller were the key motivators behind the ocean search in Aruban waters by the Persistence.

Why was a safeguard not established in the planning stages of the endeavour … a safeguard which would assure that there would be an FBI present on board the Persistence to observe the chain of custody encompassing any significant find?

Logic dictates that without a safeguard of an FBI present established prior to entering Aruban waters … the outcome was a given.  Any find that was Natalee Holloway case related would only serve to further the Aruban cover up.

I do not believe for a minute that Tim Miller and/or Dave Holloway were involved in the John Silvetti betrayal revealed by Kyle Kingman's own words but ... considering the back ground knowledge both these men possessed regarding the perceived Aruban coverup ... I fail to comprehend.
 
Janet

++++++

BETH HOLLOWAY

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'  - January 12, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think that it was in the—in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that‘s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


KYLE KINGMAN – IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

This has to be one of the most troubling aspects for me in regards to the search.You can't tell me there weren't discussions in regards to having some type of LE on board,as well as protocol to ensure this EXACT thing didn't happen.If this type of conversation never took place,i would be shocked,to say the least!If the conversation did take place.Why no LE on that boat 24/7 until the search was done???...Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me????

According to Jossy, Eduardo Mansur was on board the entire time.  He needs to talk and tell what transpired on board that ship. JMO

[Blue Moon]

O.K., the four year anniversary of INJUSTICE to Natalee Holloway will occur in just a few days.  We need to REMIND stations like Greta and Nancy Grace so they at least bring this up on the anniversary.  Aruba DOES NOT need to forget about it just yet.  They need to understand we will be here as long as Beth says we need to.  When Beth says it is over is the only way it ends.

[Blue Moon]

O.K. I just posted this to Greta's blog.  Anyone have Nancy Grace's blog address?:

Blue Moon says:
May 26, 2009 at 5:43 pm

Greta, the 4 year anniversary of the disappearance/murder of Natalee Holloway is fast approaching. Do you have anything in the works for this this year? If not please join the many people who have not and will not forget Natalee Holloway and the grave injustice Aruba has served to her and her family. Thanks in advance.

[Magnolia]

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller have been aware from early one in regards to the underlying dynamics of the Aruban investigation which was preventing justice from prevailing for Natalee.  Dave authored a book ... "Corruption in Paradise".

Dave Holloway and Tim Miller were the key motivators behind the ocean search in Aruban waters by the Persistence.

Why was a safeguard not established in the planning stages of the endeavour … a safeguard which would assure that there would be an FBI present on board the Persistence to observe the chain of custody encompassing any significant find?

Logic dictates that without a safeguard of an FBI present established prior to entering Aruban waters … the outcome was a given.  Any find that was Natalee Holloway case related would only serve to further the Aruban cover up.

I do not believe for a minute that Tim Miller and/or Dave Holloway were involved in the John Silvetti betrayal revealed by Kyle Kingman's own words but ... considering the back ground knowledge both these men possessed regarding the perceived Aruban coverup ... I fail to comprehend.
 
Janet

++++++

BETH HOLLOWAY

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'  - January 12, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think that it was in the—in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that‘s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


KYLE KINGMAN – IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The FBI told me they could not send a representative down to us in Aruba unless they were specifically invited to do so by the Aruban authorities. They were simply uninvited.

Kyle Kingman:  The FBI said they needed an invitation. I brought it up to Mos and Richardson and they were talking as if it were a possibility along with a Dutch forensic team. Mos said it would take about 10-14 days to have a Dutch forensic team on site. Never heard another word about it.

This has to be one of the most troubling aspects for me in regards to the search.You can't tell me there weren't discussions in regards to having some type of LE on board,as well as protocol to ensure this EXACT thing didn't happen.If this type of conversation never took place,i would be shocked,to say the least!If the conversation did take place.Why no LE on that boat 24/7 until the search was done???...Maybe someone can shed some light on this for me????

According to Jossy, Eduardo Mansur was on board the entire time.  He needs to talk and tell what transpired on board that ship. JMO

I am not sure that it was Jossy who made that statement.  All we have is Hotshot saying that she got an email
from Jossy.  What we actually have is Hotshot saying that Eduardo was aboard the entire time.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_57129.php

Google translation:

Aruba

Research on governance to Aruba

May 26, 2009, 17:42 (GMT -04:00)

  Email this article
  Print this article
 
ORANGE CITY / THE HAGUE - A study of the administration at Aruba. This was State Secretary of Kingdom Relations Ank Bijleveld-Schouten (CDA) today know in a letter to the Lower House. The reign wife in the letter a number of observations about the process on the island and believes that a combination of signals so worrying is that there is a research institute to do a more complete picture of the state of the board of Aruba to obtain. Based on the results of that investigation, the Secretary of State to see if further action should be taken and at what level that should happen.

by our correspondent
Christel of Bebber

During a debate in the Senate last week said Bijleveld to worry about the state of governance in Aruba. In the letter today to the Lower House, it sent a few observations from which they drew the conclusion to an inquiry. For example, the Public Prosecutor (OM) is insufficient focus on the prosecution of criminal offenses. That is the proper role of the OM, but is compromised by including understaffing. The Agricultural Research shows so heavily burdened by corruption investigations that other issues on the shelf, according to the State.

The Public Prosecutor in Oranjestad hear six prosecutors have. There are only four. "Not because there is not enough suitable candidates, but because a discussion about the salary," says the letter to the Board of Bijleveld. Furthermore, the boss of the OM, the Attorney-General, so long lost to difficult issues and to solving discussions with the Netherlands that he hardly deserves prosecution. "This, combined with the relatively large number of reports on corruption in politics and bureaucracy that worries me," writes Bijleveld. "The proper function of the OM is one of the pillars of the rule of law."

Common Court
Another pillar in the State are concerned, the judiciary. This has been against Prime Minister Oduber said. Bijleveld points out that the Court barely Aruba them has worked on the creation of a Common Court of Justice. Ultimately, Aruba or agreed with most of the bill that allows Common Court.

A shortage of staff is also in prison. Bijleveld notes that the situation in the police cells and prison over the past two years has improved after the visit of the European Committee for the Prevention of Torture and Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment (CPT). The physical conditions are addressed. But she has also seen that there are insufficient qualified personnel and that the treatment of prisoners still to be desired. Her biggest concern in this area remains the vreemdelingendetentie. Last August showed that since the visit of the CPT no point improvement was made.

The aliens chain function properly. The various organizations along each other and the division is not consistent with the statutory powers. Because the laws and regulations are not always clear and consistently interpreted, is arbitrary in wait. "It is that Aruba really significant and visible improvements to make," said Bijleveld, in its letter.
Also on democracy Bijleveld comments. "The controlling function of parliament is not always well. Thus has it that Statenleden questions remain unanswered or that a lack of public debate. I also see that the opposition-initiated legislation is debated in the States. "She points out that this situation is that only the inside can be resolved.
Some events from 1993 on a well-functioning public administration are not yet implemented. "I consider it very important that in any case the agreement on party funding and the establishment of an independent complaints body still be achieved," said Bijleveld.
 
Transparency
There are no known cases in the State of corruption that are not already in research in the OM. "However, by lack of transparency in decision-making in sensitive cases the lack of interest or appearance of corruption should be eliminated," said Bijleveld. The Secretary of State has said that further research is needed in Aruba. In this letter they repeat that again. There currently performs consulting the Aruban government. The new research should show whether additional measures are needed. Wednesday meets the Netherlands Antillean and Aruban Affairs on the state of governance in the Netherlands Antilles and Aruba.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_57125.php

Google translation:

Aruba

No new prosecutor Holloway case

May 26, 2009, 17:37 (GMT -04:00)


ORANGE CITY - Prosecutor Elivia Lugo remains the investigation of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway lead. The spokesmen after the departure of chief officer Hans Mos by Attorney-General (PG) Rob Pietersz.

Contrary to what Dutch media said, the new chief officer is not the research result. The spokesmen is thus the PG because he believes that the Public Prosecutor (OM) in the Holloway case and other investigations the press' access to detail has given. "I have a different view on press matters. I deny the link between the OM and the press and also not very good. But we must be careful as the place to make you aware that not all companies details a study at any time to give prices. That must be very close to be taken, because everyone has the right to privacy. "

Pietersz was thus that the Holloway case too many details of the investigation are given in more so by head officer Hans Mos. "Look, you can have some suspicions as for police, but the question is whether or not such suspicions should also share with the whole community." Rumors that circulated that Mos leave because botert it is not between him and the new PG, Pietersz Points off. "It is too much said that I have is that he leaves. I can guarantee that no sanction against him has been. "Mos leave it because the Public Prosecutor General has asked him if kwartiermaker and possibly the first head of the new officer for St. Maarten. Meanwhile, a new chief officer (and Advocate General) in the Netherlands found. This will soon be proposed.

The PG says however that the outgoing principal officer has approached several times, including certain statements. And on the admission of foreign agencies, which Pietersz is that much more reticent to deal should have been. This is great investigative bodies such as the FBI, but also agencies such as recently by Dave Holloway, Natalee's father, which was enabled on the island with a ranger was sought.
"They have no powers here. You should also double into, because you could own people to run and your feet so watch out for their own people not to move aside. "The PG has recently been with the American consul had spoken earlier and sent a letter so that the authorities in their own country at the height could make. The message is that Aruba is not some foreign, including American, investigation may operate without prior request to the PG. "So that in the Convention on Mutual Assistance between the United States and the Netherlands. We must respect otherwise you get this wild scenes, all the authorities and people for their own feet to walk. "

Leading Saturday, May 30 is the four years since Natalee disappeared in Aruba. The criminal investigation is still ongoing.

[Tamikosmom]

When I consider Jossy Mansur's connection to the witness as well as his alleged words in that email and ... then when I consider Kyle Kingman's suspicion encompassing Eduardo .... I am not counting light being shed onto the contents of the trap coming from the direction of the Mansurs.

Janet

++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Re: Eduardo

Kyle Kingman:  We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.


EMAIL - JOSSY MANSUR

Jossy Mansur:  No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

Credit: Kermit

[Tamikosmom]

O.K. I just posted this to Greta's blog.  Anyone have Nancy Grace's blog address?:

Blue Moon says:
May 26, 2009 at 5:43 pm

Greta, the 4 year anniversary of the disappearance/murder of Natalee Holloway is fast approaching. Do you have anything in the works for this this year? If not please join the many people who have not and will not forget Natalee Holloway and the grave injustice Aruba has served to her and her family. Thanks in advance.

Blue Moon ... an excellent idea.

I will submit a post right now.  Would you please provide a link.

Thanks you.

Janet

[Blue Moon]

O.K. I just posted this to Greta's blog.  Anyone have Nancy Grace's blog address?:

Blue Moon says:
May 26, 2009 at 5:43 pm

Greta, the 4 year anniversary of the disappearance/murder of Natalee Holloway is fast approaching. Do you have anything in the works for this this year? If not please join the many people who have not and will not forget Natalee Holloway and the grave injustice Aruba has served to her and her family. Thanks in advance.

Blue Moon ... an excellent idea.

I will submit a post right now.  Would you please provide a link.

Thanks you.

Janet

Here, try this one, I posted on an open blog:

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/05/26/open-thread-blog-808/comment-page-8/#comment-4885007

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER


THE FINAL GOODBYE
.
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway

Page 15/16:  On Thursday May 26, 2005, Natalee came into my bedroom at three o'clock in the morning to tell me it was almost time to go. Everyone was gathering at a friend's house for the ride to the airport. My job was to pick everyone up at the airport when they returned on Memorial Day, Monday, May 30, 2005 ...

In the wee hours on this Thursday morning Natalee and I loaded her things into the back of the car and headed off to her friend's house.  It was very dark at that hour, and we were both ony half awake.  But we did talk some.  Small talk.  We reviewed what she had packed, going through a mental checklist of passport, cash, camera, suncreen, and the like.  When we arrived at her friend's house, she came to life.  The adventure she had been excitedly awaiting for months was finally about to begin.  She jumped out of the car and bounced to the back to get her bag.  I got out and walked around the car to help her.  She gathered her things and looked up long enough for me to kiss her on the cheek.

"I love you!  Have a great time!" I told her.

She replied "Bye, Mom! Love you!" and slung her purple duffel bag over her shoulder.

The bag made her walk slightly bent to its opposite side.  I got back in the car as she made her way up the long walkway to the front door.  Turning the car around to leave, I stopped and looked over my shoulder to see her go inside.  The front door of the house opened just wide enough for her to slip in.  I saw her silhouette in the beam of light that shone from inside.  The light narrowed as the door closed, then disappeared completely.  It was pitch-black again.  I drove away not knowing that would be the last time I would ever see Natalee.

THE PROVERBIAL DREADED PHONE CALL
.
Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
.
Page 23:  Rested and refreshed, we leave Memphis late Monday morning with Linda driving and Marilyn up front with her.  I take the backseat.  We sail along, chatting like we alway do, talking about our plans for another road trip one day soon.  Marilyn and I are happily speculating about what our daughters' reactions will be when they open their presents to find a set of extraordinary Wizard of Oz figures.  Natalee will gasp with excitement when she sees these.  Before we know it, we've crossed over into Mississippi.  Somewhere amid our conversation, between the chuckles and the small talk, my cell phone rings. I don't recognize the number, but answer it anyway, which I usually don't do.

It's a young girl.  "Mrs. Twitty?  My mom ... umm ... my mom, she umm ... wants to talk to you."  It's the daughter of Judi, the travel agent.  She developed appendicitis right before the trip, so she and Jodi didn't get to go to Aruba.  They are in Birmingham.  It seems like an eternity before Jodi takes the phone.

"Tell me what's going on," I say in a voice much firmer than the one I usually hear coming from my mouth.

She simply says, "Natalee didn't show up this morning to get on the plane."

And instantly I know.  It's more than a mother's intuition.  It's certainty.  Something terrible has happened.  I have just answered the proverbial dreaded phone call that no mother or father every wants to receive.   The one we fear from the moment our children are born.  The one that changes a parent's life forever.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_57125.php

Google translation:

Aruba

No new prosecutor Holloway case

May 26, 2009, 17:37 (GMT -04:00)


ORANGE CITY - Prosecutor Elivia Lugo remains the investigation of missing American teenager Natalee Holloway lead. The spokesmen after the departure of chief officer Hans Mos by Attorney-General (PG) Rob Pietersz.

Contrary to what Dutch media said, the new chief officer is not the research result. The spokesmen is thus the PG because he believes that the Public Prosecutor (OM) in the Holloway case and other investigations the press' access to detail has given. "I have a different view on press matters. I deny the link between the OM and the press and also not very good. But we must be careful as the place to make you aware that not all companies details a study at any time to give prices. That must be very close to be taken, because everyone has the right to privacy. "

Pietersz was thus that the Holloway case too many details of the investigation are given in more so by head officer Hans Mos. "Look, you can have some suspicions as for police, but the question is whether or not such suspicions should also share with the whole community." Rumors that circulated that Mos leave because botert it is not between him and the new PG, Pietersz Points off. "It is too much said that I have is that he leaves. I can guarantee that no sanction against him has been. "Mos leave it because the Public Prosecutor General has asked him if kwartiermaker and possibly the first head of the new officer for St. Maarten. Meanwhile, a new chief officer (and Advocate General) in the Netherlands found. This will soon be proposed.

The PG says however that the outgoing principal officer has approached several times, including certain statements. And on the admission of foreign agencies, which Pietersz is that much more reticent to deal should have been. This is great investigative bodies such as the FBI, but also agencies such as recently by Dave Holloway, Natalee's father, which was enabled on the island with a ranger was sought.
"They have no powers here. You should also double into, because you could own people to run and your feet so watch out for their own people not to move aside. "The PG has recently been with the American consul had spoken earlier and sent a letter so that the authorities in their own country at the height could make. The message is that Aruba is not some foreign, including American, investigation may operate without prior request to the PG. "So that in the Convention on Mutual Assistance between the United States and the Netherlands. We must respect otherwise you get this wild scenes, all the authorities and people for their own feet to walk. "

Leading Saturday, May 30 is the four years since Natalee disappeared in Aruba. The criminal investigation is still ongoing.

I'm going to add the original text here and hope that Cageman or Caesu might stop by and clarify what Robert Pietersz states in the above article.  The translation was a bit lacking IMO.
Thanks in advance to anyone that is willing to clarify for us!  

   

Aruba
Geen nieuwe aanklager Holloway-zaak
26 Mei, 2009, 17:37 (GMT -04:00)




ORANJESTAD – Officier van Justitie Elivia Lugo blijft het onderzoek naar de vermiste Amerikaanse tiener Natalee Holloway leiden. De woordvoering wordt na het vertrek van hoofdofficier Hans Mos overgenomen door procureur-generaal (PG) Rob Pietersz.

In tegenstelling tot wat in Nederlandse media wordt beweerd, zal de nieuwe hoofdofficier dus niet het onderzoek gaan leiden. De woordvoering wordt dus voortaan door de PG gedaan omdat hij vindt dat het Openbaar Ministerie (OM) in de Holloway-zaak als ook andere lopende onderzoeken de pers ‘te gedetailleerd inzage’ heeft gegeven. “Ik heb een andere kijk op perszaken. Ik ontken de band tussen het OM en pers niet en die moet ook heel goed zijn. Maar we moeten even pas op de plaats maken om bewust te maken dat je niet alle details ven een onderzoek op elk gewenst moment prijs moet geven. Dat moet heel nauwlettend in het oog worden gehouden, omdat iedereen recht heeft op privacy.”

Pietersz vond dus ook dat in de Holloway-zaak teveel details van het onderzoek zijn weggegeven onder meer dus door hoofdofficier Hans Mos. “Kijk, je kunt bepaalde vermoedens hebben als OM, politie, maar de vraag is of je die vermoedens ook zou moeten delen met de hele gemeenschap.” Geruchten die circuleren dat Mos weggaat omdat het niet botert tussen hem en de nieuwe PG, wijst Pietersz af. “Het is teveel gezegd dat het door mij komt dat hij weggaat. Ik kan garanderen dat ook geen enkele sanctie tegen hem is geweest.” Mos vertrekt volgens hem omdat het parketgeneraal hem heeft gevraagd als kwartiermaker en eventueel eerste hoofdofficier van het nieuwe OM op St. Maarten. Inmiddels is al een nieuwe hoofdofficier (en ook advocaat-generaal) in Nederland gevonden. Deze worden binnenkort voorgesteld.

De PG zegt overigens wel dat hij de vertrekkende hoofdofficier diverse keren heeft aangesproken, ook over bepaalde uitlatingen. En over het toelaten van buitenlandse agentschappen, waarin Pietersz vindt dat er veel terughoudender mee omgegaan had moeten worden. Het gaat om grote opsporingsinstanties als de FBI, maar ook agentschappen zoals recentelijk door Dave Holloway, de vader van Natalee, werd ingeschakeld waarbij op het eiland met een speurhond werd gezocht.
“Deze hebben geen enkele bevoegdheden hier. Je moet er bovendien dubbel voorzichtig in zijn, omdat je hiermee eigen mensen voor de voeten loopt en je dus moet oppassen om de eigen mensen ook niet opzij te schuiven.” De PG heeft onlangs met de Amerikaanse consul hierover gesproken en stuurde al eerder een brief zodat deze ook de autoriteiten in eigen land op de hoogte kon stellen. De boodschap is dat op Aruba geen enkele buitenlandse, dus ook Amerikaanse, opsporingsdienst kan opereren zonder voorafgaand verzoek aan de PG. “ Zo staat dat ook in het verdrag over wederzijdse rechtshulp tussen de Verenigde Staten en Nederland. Dat moeten we respecteren anders krijg je hier wilde taferelen, dat allemaal de instanties komen en eigen mensen voor voeten komen lopen.”

Aanstaande zaterdag 30 mei is het vier jaar geleden dat Natalee op Aruba verdween. Het strafrechtelijk onderzoek loopt nog steeds.

[Tamikosmom]

O.K. I just posted this to Greta's blog.  Anyone have Nancy Grace's blog address?:

Blue Moon says:
May 26, 2009 at 5:43 pm

Greta, the 4 year anniversary of the disappearance/murder of Natalee Holloway is fast approaching. Do you have anything in the works for this this year? If not please join the many people who have not and will not forget Natalee Holloway and the grave injustice Aruba has served to her and her family. Thanks in advance.

Blue Moon ... an excellent idea.

I will submit a post right now.  Would you please provide a link.

Thanks you.

Janet

Here, try this one, I posted on an open blog:

http://gretawire.foxnews.com/2009/05/26/open-thread-blog-808/comment-page-8/#comment-4885007

Thanks

Janet

[texasmom]

Sorry, just noticed I didn't spell his name correctly!  s/b Pietersz

 

   Fixed.

[texasmom]

Sorry, just noticed I didn't spell his name correctly!  s/b Pietersz

 

   Fixed.

Thanks 2NJ!