Natalee Case Discussion #819 5/17/09 - 6/10/09

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_57353.php

Heavy weather for restaurants

May 30, 2009, 16:59 (GMT -04:00)

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Le Dôme Restaurant at Eagle Beach recently closed its doors.

ORANGE CITY - The French / Belgian restaurant Le Dôme last week concluded. According to owner Ramon Groot Antink 'to prevent the company in trouble. " He was the restaurant later this year at a different location to continue. Almost 12 years, the chic restaurant not to imagine the Aruban culinary world.

by Alex Laclé

The name Le Dôme years was synonymous with exclusive, high quality and upscale dining. Properties in times of crisis may not always be useful. Thus, guests often choose lower and faster for 'cheaper' restaurants. But other restaurants have a hard time. Havana beach recently closed its doors and the new Kool Runnings Jamaican restaurant in Palm Beach was the lack of customers only a month open. Chino Latino restaurant and decided to save money, too close to lunch and to concentrate on dinner. Some restaurants owner Frank Booi is for sale. Booi confirmed that two of the three restaurants of Le Petit Cafe for sale. These are the offices in Royal Beach Mall and Paradise Beach Villas. The establishment in Playa Linda hotel is not sold but will thoroughly rebuilt and refurbished to be.

"I saw it all coming months," says Booi. "It is particularly bad on the island. Who has money, it can sustain, which funds the bank has borrowed the forgotten. "The reason that the two sites sold, Booi indicates that he wants to concentrate on the hotel area. "It's become too difficult in the city. There is almost no one. "Only things that many tourists cruise control, can still maintain some, he believes. "A potential buyer of the plant in Royal Plaza want the restaurant with a nightclub. There is still something to earn. "

Competition
The large number of new restaurants in the hotel area Northern opens, will make Booi problems. He indicates that the rents at new shopping mall as Paseo Herencia enormously high and says to expect a number of restaurants quickly on the go. So he called TGI Fridays and Hard Rock Cafe and large kanshebbers to 'not long survive. " On the other hand, now is the time to invest is Booi. "If you have money you can set up something relatively cheap and the economy six or seven months you will attract benefit," says Booi.

[texasmom]

REMINDER

THE FABRIC - THE TARP - THE VERTEBRAE - THE SKULL

KYLE KINGMAN IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning. I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed. Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp and blue fabric was confirmed by Richardson and Mos. Remember, they each only confirmed one piece. One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp. From the video you see both.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman:  John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of vertebrae.

Kyle Kingman:  As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI: The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman:  Remember it was Richardson who said to us that he personally handled the evidence and sent it immediately to our FBI)

Kyle Kingsman:  The sediment in this case is fine-grained sand which is preferencially deposited to make a body form. For sand to preferentially deposit, there needs to be a lower energy state where the sand collects and stays. This can be achieved either with a shallow depression creating accomodation space and lower potential energy (not the case) or by creating small eddy currents due to surface friction. The sediment around the door area is being eroded or removed by currents. Where the body was, it is being deposited. Basically, the fabrics created enough resistence for sediment to preferentially collect on it. Further, bacterial staining due to decaying organics acts as a mild cementing agent. Combined, you will have sediment erosion around the body form and deposition on the body form which collects through time. In this case, possibly 2 1/2 years.

Kyle Kingman: I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.


ROV IMAGES

Video 1 - December 29, 2007


Images:  Kyle Kingman

Credit: Klass

Bump:  Thank you Janet!   

[texasmom]

REMINDER

THE CONSPIRACY COVER UP CARD

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 06/10/08:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Bump:  Thank you Janet!   

[texasmom]

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
.
Pages 209/210:  Bad things happen everywhere.  But the difference we need to consider when something bad happens outside the country is the help available for the victims and their families.  When we leave these borders, we leave behind all the privileges and rights we're all accustomed to and often take for granted.  We have expectations that there will be a safety net of law-abiding official, no matter where we travel, or that our US embassy will come to our rescue.  But that's terribly naive.


BOYCOTT ARUBA!!

Thank you Janet for all of your reminders!

I would only add this suggestion to the excerpt from Beth's book above. 

If "something bad" happens to you in another country.  There are many who will contact your family and offer their assistance.  Some are genuine, and will do everything in their power to bring you home; some are not.  No matter how genuine those who offer assistance seem to be; when they go to that foreign country they should work in concert with and under the direction of United States based law enforcement.  If it was necessary for those from the United States to go into that country to search for you; it is very likely that the country involved had no intention of finding you or returning you to your country.  Sending others to that country to search for you without the proper supervision, could result in their being influenced or controlled by the foreign country in many ways that may lead to inappropriate behavior regarding the search. 

In other words, that I have heard somewhere before....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245#msg372245

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

 

[texasmom]

Would a kind mod please correct my spelling error!  exerpt s/b excerpt

Thanks in advance!   

Fixed...first attempt had it azz backwards.   

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

 

[Helen Back]

Crime - The Enemy Within
David Jessop
May 31, 2009

By David Jessop; Director of the Caribbean Council

Across the Caribbean, from Guyana to Belize, once peaceful and well ordered societies have become hosts to narcotics trafficking, money laundering, extortion, gun crime, kidnapping, robbery with violence, and more recently, those who would support acts of international terrorism.

The growth has been exponential and no nation has been exempt, although some so far have managed to avoid the headlines.

The origins lie largely in the Caribbean’s geographic location; its relative economic underdevelopment; the presence of significant pockets of social deprivation; and the attraction these factors all present to narcotics traffickers who are able to command sums larger than national budgets.

There are of course other contributory reasons, including social disaffection among youth; weak and underpaid law enforcement agencies; the presence of largely US criminal deportees; and the cross border trafficking of US arms between the Dominican Republic and Haiti that enables their subsequent shipment to the rest of the region.

In early May, the World Bank published a report confirming the developmental damage that high rates of crime and violence are having across the Caribbean. Their study, Crime, Violence and Development: Trends, costs and Policy Options in the Caribbean, argues that narcotics trafficking are at the core. It is what makes the murder rates in the Caribbean higher than in any other region of the world and rates of assault significantly above the world average.

The World Bank report makes clear that crime is having an impact on the transactional costs of legitimate business and has become a major obstacle to investment. Lawlessness, it notes, is causing skilled workers to leave the region and is resulting in nations spending increasing amount of their scarce resources on security. It argues that if Haiti and Jamaica were able to bring their homicide rate down to that of Costa Rica, both countries would experience an increase in growth of more than 5%.

A while ago I participated in a conference discussing in part Caribbean security. There, experts from the region and beyond suggested that the global economic crisis would negatively affect the security of the region through increased demand for narcotics and a rise in associated crime.

They also noted that if the US/ Mexico Merida Initiative – the joint operation to halt the brazen power struggle by Mexican drug lords for control of the border with the United States – is successful this would displace narcotics transit routes, transferring them to the Western Caribbean in particular.

They believed too that there was a need for the US to be much more sensitive about the movement of weapons, narcotics and deportees to the Caribbean and even to begin a debate about legalization. At the recent summit of the Americas, the US President, Barack Obama, did just this.

He made clear that the US recognized the linkages between demand for narcotics in the US and elsewhere and the criminality it was spawning in the Americas and the Caribbean. He promised to help the region combat this and on May 20 sought from the US Congress, US$45m for the security needs the region have identified, to develop a common security agenda with the US. Despite this, no one should underestimate the indirect costs.

For example, in Mexico, areas most significantly affected by violence have experienced reduced investment, falls in tourism, and a dramatic escalation in transactional costs such as protection rents, ransoms, and costs of bodyguards to say nothing about the deterioration in the quality of life and public safety.

Alarmingly, in the Caribbean it is far from clear whether similar criminality has now become so insidious an evil that Caribbean Governments and more importantly the region’s people are any longer willing to confront the menace. The truth is that there is an enemy within who for years now have been corrupting governance, business and daily life who threaten stability and prey on underdevelopment.

A year or so ago I was sitting with a Caribbean businessman when he received a phone call from a well known Jamaican ‘Don’. He had no option but to take it. The conversation was difficult and embarrassing for us both. Subsequently I gathered that my friend acquiesced to the ‘request’ being made. This situation is repeated daily not only in Jamaica but across the region. The perpetrators are relatively few and well known.

Alarmingly, so pervasive has the role of these criminal godfathers become in deprived areas in some Caribbean nations that they have, as with the narcotic cartels in Mexico and Colombia, now embarked on social programmes in urban areas where government is unable or unwilling to provide education, employment or policing.

This ‘social role’, the increasing cost of doing business and the application of these individuals’ illicit gains to political and to seemingly legitimate commercial activities, threaten to lead eventually to states in which these people are beyond the rule of law. These are issues that are not publicly debated in Caribbean society.

Whether through fear or complicity, there is a silent acceptance of the role of the Dons or their like, of their connections with leading politicians in both government and opposition parties, and it seems a resigned willingness to acquiesce to their ‘protection’.

This suggests that if a moment does not come soon, when important groups in civil society including the media, the church and the academic community ask questions about the role and impact of so far unnamed individuals involved in criminality in Caribbean or initiate a debate about the future society that they as ordinary citizens want, the perpetrators and their successors will become still more entrenched, confirming that crime and its consequences are endemic.

http://www.pamdemocrat.org/Newspaper/Details.cfm?Nz=(0GIZ4I%26%3DAG8%20%0A&Iz=%23)BDL%0A

[Tamikosmom]

Good Night Monkeys.  Good Night Zookeepers.

A quick came of Scrabble or 500 Rummy with hubby.  I choose Scrabble so I guess Jan-ken-po (Rock, Paper, Sissors) is where it is at.  Hubby is getting downright stubborn in his old age.  I used to get my own way all the time.

 

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
.
Pages 209/210:  Bad things happen everywhere.  But the difference we need to consider when something bad happens outside the country is the help available for the victims and their families.  When we leave these borders, we leave behind all the privileges and rights we're all accustomed to and often take for granted.  We have expectations that there will be a safety net of law-abiding official, no matter where we travel, or that our US embassy will come to our rescue.  But that's terribly naive.


BOYCOTT ARUBA!!

Thank you Janet for all of your reminders!

I would only add this suggestion to the excerpt from Beth's book above. 

If "something bad" happens to you in another country.  There are many who will contact your family and offer their assistance.  Some are genuine, and will do everything in their power to bring you home; some are not.  No matter how genuine those who offer assistance seem to be; when they go to that foreign country they should work in concert with and under the direction of United States based law enforcement.  If it was necessary for those from the United States to go into that country to search for you; it is very likely that the country involved had no intention of finding you or returning you to your country.  Sending others to that country to search for you without the proper supervision, could result in their being influenced or controlled by the foreign country in many ways that may lead to inappropriate behavior regarding the search. 

In other words, that I have heard somewhere before....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245#msg372245

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

 

I miss Private Eye.

 

texasmom ... I do believe that in our excitement our hugs hurt him and our screams scared him away when we spotted him lurking a while back.

 

Janet
8:35 PM PT

[2NJSons_Mom]

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
.
Pages 209/210:  Bad things happen everywhere.  But the difference we need to consider when something bad happens outside the country is the help available for the victims and their families.  When we leave these borders, we leave behind all the privileges and rights we're all accustomed to and often take for granted.  We have expectations that there will be a safety net of law-abiding official, no matter where we travel, or that our US embassy will come to our rescue.  But that's terribly naive.


BOYCOTT ARUBA!!

Thank you Janet for all of your reminders!

I would only add this suggestion to the excerpt from Beth's book above. 

If "something bad" happens to you in another country.  There are many who will contact your family and offer their assistance.  Some are genuine, and will do everything in their power to bring you home; some are not.  No matter how genuine those who offer assistance seem to be; when they go to that foreign country they should work in concert with and under the direction of United States based law enforcement.  If it was necessary for those from the United States to go into that country to search for you; it is very likely that the country involved had no intention of finding you or returning you to your country.  Sending others to that country to search for you without the proper supervision, could result in their being influenced or controlled by the foreign country in many ways that may lead to inappropriate behavior regarding the search. 

In other words, that I have heard somewhere before....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245#msg372245

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

 

I miss Private Eye.

 

texasmom ... I do believe that in our excitement our hugs hurt him and our screams scared him away when we spotted him lurking a while back.

 

Janet
8:35 PM PT

Maybe loose lips sink ships was more the reason.  Dunno, just throwing it out there as a possibility.  Silence is golden. 

[texasmom]

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
.
Pages 209/210:  Bad things happen everywhere.  But the difference we need to consider when something bad happens outside the country is the help available for the victims and their families.  When we leave these borders, we leave behind all the privileges and rights we're all accustomed to and often take for granted.  We have expectations that there will be a safety net of law-abiding official, no matter where we travel, or that our US embassy will come to our rescue.  But that's terribly naive.


BOYCOTT ARUBA!!

Thank you Janet for all of your reminders!

I would only add this suggestion to the excerpt from Beth's book above. 

If "something bad" happens to you in another country.  There are many who will contact your family and offer their assistance.  Some are genuine, and will do everything in their power to bring you home; some are not.  No matter how genuine those who offer assistance seem to be; when they go to that foreign country they should work in concert with and under the direction of United States based law enforcement.  If it was necessary for those from the United States to go into that country to search for you; it is very likely that the country involved had no intention of finding you or returning you to your country.  Sending others to that country to search for you without the proper supervision, could result in their being influenced or controlled by the foreign country in many ways that may lead to inappropriate behavior regarding the search. 

In other words, that I have heard somewhere before....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245#msg372245

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

 

I miss Private Eye.

 

texasmom ... I do believe that in our excitement our hugs hurt him and our screams scared him away when we spotted him lurking a while back.

 

Janet
8:35 PM PT

I know Janet!     I miss him too!

If I see him again, I'm going to be soooooo quiet; everyone will wonder where I am.
I wish he would come by and say hi, and tell us how things are with him.
I know they were going to try to get him to join the new darkside; but he's smarter than that.
I don't believe he would ever have any part of it! 
Hope everything's as good as it can be for him and his family.
 

[Tamikosmom]

2NJ ... what do you mean?

Thanks

Janet

[texasmom]

Would a kind mod please correct my spelling error!  exerpt s/b excerpt

Thanks in advance!   

Fixed...first attempt had it azz backwards.   

  Thanks 2NJ!   

[texasmom]

Good Night Monkeys.  Good Night Zookeepers.

A quick came of Scrabble or 500 Rummy with hubby.  I choose Scrabble so I guess Jan-ken-po (Rock, Paper, Sissors) is where it is at.  Hubby is getting downright stubborn in his old age.  I used to get my own way all the time.

 

Janet

Good night Janet! 

[2NJSons_Mom]

2NJ ... what do you mean?

Thanks

Janet

I had a feeling my post would be questioned....it was not meant to be perceived as negative, at all. 

I was just thinking that PI was very open and frank in his posts, including those about the Persistence search.  It was my thought that the family decided to be quiet....let things go on to see how it goes.  It was just my thought, with nothing to back it up. 

[Tamikosmom]

Loving Natalee - Beth Holloway
.
Pages 209/210:  Bad things happen everywhere.  But the difference we need to consider when something bad happens outside the country is the help available for the victims and their families.  When we leave these borders, we leave behind all the privileges and rights we're all accustomed to and often take for granted.  We have expectations that there will be a safety net of law-abiding official, no matter where we travel, or that our US embassy will come to our rescue.  But that's terribly naive.


BOYCOTT ARUBA!!

Thank you Janet for all of your reminders!

I would only add this suggestion to the excerpt from Beth's book above. 

If "something bad" happens to you in another country.  There are many who will contact your family and offer their assistance.  Some are genuine, and will do everything in their power to bring you home; some are not.  No matter how genuine those who offer assistance seem to be; when they go to that foreign country they should work in concert with and under the direction of United States based law enforcement.  If it was necessary for those from the United States to go into that country to search for you; it is very likely that the country involved had no intention of finding you or returning you to your country.  Sending others to that country to search for you without the proper supervision, could result in their being influenced or controlled by the foreign country in many ways that may lead to inappropriate behavior regarding the search. 

In other words, that I have heard somewhere before....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245#msg372245

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed:)

 

I miss Private Eye.

 

texasmom ... I do believe that in our excitement our hugs hurt him and our screams scared him away when we spotted him lurking a while back.

 

Janet
8:35 PM PT

I know Janet!     I miss him too!

If I see him again, I'm going to be soooooo quiet; everyone will wonder where I am.
I wish he would come by and say hi, and tell us how things are with him.
I know they were going to try to get him to join the new darkside; but he's smarter than that.
I don't believe he would ever have any part of it! 
Hope everything's as good as it can be for him and his family.
 

SHHH

Could it be that Private Eye is lurking?  Could it be that he is disquised as a "guest"?

 

texasmom ... when I consider Private Eye's words of astonishment in his posts regarding the Arubans being afforded unchallenged possession of the contents of the trap ... it is hard to belief he would feel at home on a forum that uphold sJohn Silvetti.

If that happens.  I am done.

 

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

2NJ ... what do you mean?

Thanks

Janet

I had a feeling my post would be questioned....it was not meant to be perceived as negative, at all. 

I was just thinking that PI was very open and frank in his posts, including those about the Persistence search.  It was my thought that the family decided to be quiet....let things go on to see how it goes.  It was just my thought, with nothing to back it up. 

I know what you mean 2NJ.  I was thankful for Private Eye's presence.  His affirmation ... insight ... was appreciated in regards to the happenings on board the Persistence that many of us found somewhat hinky.

Janet

+++++++


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #715 1/25 -
« Reply #103 on: January 26, 2008, 12:38:25 PM »

Thought you all may find this interesting if you're willing to accept it-

To date, the Aruban police and dive team has been a tremendous help.  They've honestly done a great job. Over the last month we've established a very good working relationship based on openness and trust.  Most of the relationship success was due to getting the media out of the way and working together shoulder to shoulder over time.  We've helped each other however and whenever we can.  They've treated us with decency and respect and we have treated them as friends and allies, which they are. Most of the police and divers are new since this case started and both eager and careful to do things right.  I wish we had a month ahead of the project just to establish the relationships and trust. I know many of you would likely doubt this view, but it's based on the experiences in the field of the entire search team. I too was extremely worried, paranoid, and suspecting in the beginning.  Now, it's clear we're all working towards a common goal.


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

... But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine. What kills this investigation is people having to come into it, wanting to apply basic investigatory protocols into place, and then having those channels sabotage the new evidence that the new players discover. Of course, as is happened everytime in this case, the new people eventually come to a point where the manipulation of the evidence is undeniable, but by then the fruits of their work are gone, and there is simply another member of the believers of the cover up group. What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

We are not hysterical, ignorant, paranoid people. We have seen the cover up in action, in broad daylight, with impunity, and if you disregard our warnings, you will become the next chump in a series of chumps, no matter how sophisticated your equipment, the level of your educational achievement, or the extent of your job skills and work history.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#msg364750


+++++++++


oceanexploration
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #744 3/19 -
« Reply #201 on: March 19, 2008, 08:21:47 PM »

We had little option other than to have the Aruban dive division recover the samples and bring them back under their care.  Remember we are Americans working in Aruban waters, subject to their laws, invitation, and blessing.  Our hands are tied for the most part. I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2721.msg366857;topicseen#msg366857


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

[texasmom]

I know how you feel, Janet!

I don't think I could give up, but my head would probably look like wreck's did for awhile!   

If we found out that he had joined, it would be because he had been lied to about what that forum represented.  And that would REALLY PISS ME OFF!

   

[Tamikosmom]

Well ... I guess I procrastinated on the forum too long and lost out on my game of Scrabble.  I was therock, paper, sissors winner too.

 

Hubby is laughing away at that reality show "Jon and Kate plus eight".  I will not let that happen again.

Good Night All.

Janet
9:25 PM

[texasmom]

Well ... I guess I procrastinated on the forum too long and lost out on my game of Scrabble.  I was therock, paper, sissors winner too.

 

Hubby is laughing away at that reality show "Jon and Kate plus eight".  I will not let that happen again.

Good Night All.

Janet
9:25 PM

Good night Janet!