Natalee Case Discussion #819 5/17/09 - 6/10/09

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[texasmom]

Good night billb and Keepthefaith!   

[billb's daughter]

Ktf...lakers played hard...almost pulled it off....that had to scare magic at home...
lakers in 6.....

You're soooooo bad billb!   

However, this was on the front page of Aruba Today!   

BillB..Aruba watching the Finals with you..

The good arubans are always welcomed in Southern California...I have room for both of them.....

There are two?   

Maybe not...I've been diagnosed with double vision!

I think I may have it too!   

Or are you just trying to make me think I do....BILLB!   

Is it just me or is there,like,40 monkey's laughing and looking at me in this post?Please tell me i haven't lost it.....

OK..i exxagerated a bit..I think it's like 22 including these..

And I didn't actually count, but there are a LOT of them!  

Good Night TM & Ktf.....
We got our stack groove back...just like riding a bike....
Agree full heartedly...2NJ_SONS is an 

[Keepthefaith]

Ktf...lakers played hard...almost pulled it off....that had to scare magic at home...
lakers in 6.....

You're soooooo bad billb!   

However, this was on the front page of Aruba Today!   

BillB..Aruba watching the Finals with you..

The good arubans are always welcomed in Southern California...I have room for both of them.....

There are two?   

Maybe not...I've been diagnosed with double vision!

I think I may have it too!   

Or are you just trying to make me think I do....BILLB!   

Is it just me or is there,like,40 monkey's laughing and looking at me in this post?Please tell me i haven't lost it.....

OK..i exxagerated a bit..I think it's like 22 including these..

And I didn't actually count, but there are a LOT of them!  

Good Night TM & Ktf.....
We got our stack groove back...just like riding a bike....
Agree full heartedly...2NJ_SONS is an 

Goodnight BillB...2nj will arise to a warm cup of Coffee and a smile!

[Keepthefaith]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[Keepthefaith]

Good night billb and Keepthefaith!   

To all a goodnight!

[billb's daughter]

got ahead of myself posting...Agree full heartedly...2NJ_SONS.

i know better and no excuses (laziness on my part)  2NJSONS_MOM..you are an 

[wreck]

Ktf...lakers played hard...almost pulled it off....that had to scare magic at home...
lakers in 6.....

Nick Montana verbally commits to the University of Washington.....

Hannah's Brother??

[Tamikosmom]

Thank you all for your input regarding my concerns regarding Dave Holloway's relationship with those who are one with the Aruban coverup that has prevented justice from prevailing from the getgo.

Food for Thought

Considering his extensive background knowledge regarding the dynamics encompassing the corrupt Aruban investigation into the disappearance of his daughter ... why did Dave Holloway not determine for himself that this huge undertaking that was intended to bring closure was all for naught if there was no assurance in place that an FBI presence would be permitted on board to observe a chain of custody of any discovery that might be case related?

Natalee Holloway's uncle was shocked that no protocol regarding a chain of custody had been established.  Monkeys were shocked that no protocol regarding a chain of custody  had been established.

Janet

++++++++

DAVE HOLLOWAY - SUSPICIOUS FROM THE GETGO

Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 183:  I commented to Jacobs about how short my statement was. He said that I could add anything I wanted to it. Also, I noticed that Eric Soemers's name was on it, but that detective was not even present during the interview. Now I wondered if Jacobs was making up everyone's statement and getting Eric to sign on to them. If that were the case, he could state anything he wanted, and it would look like an official statement made in front of a witness.


On the Record w/ Greta - April 11, 2006

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S FATHER: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html


Corruption in Paradise - Dave Holloway

Page 9/10: Jacobs also told us that the day before we arrived, he had interviewed the boys who eventually became the three main suspects in Natalee's disappearance, Joran van der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe, and his brother Satish. Beth had informed him of them after receiving information about videotapes taken from the security cameras outside of the Holiday Inn and in the hotel's casino. It had been determined that they were the last people to be seen with her.

Jacobs considered the boys' statements to be consistent in that they had all said that they dropped Natalee off at the hotel.  However, I did not realize at the time that Beth had already told him that the tapes did not show Natalee returning to the Holiday Inn that night.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Books/Story?id=1819038&page=1


NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S UNCLE - THE GAME WAS FIXED

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

[jen3560]

Thank you all for your input regarding my concerns regarding Dave Holloway's relationship with those who are one with the Aruban coverup that has prevented justice from prevailing from the getgo.

Food for Thought

Considering his extensive background knowledge regarding the dynamics encompassing the corrupt Aruban investigation into the disappearance of his daughter ... why did Dave Holloway not determine for himself that this huge undertaking that was intended to bring closure was all for naught if there was no assurance in place that an FBI presence would be permitted on board to observe a chain of custody of any discovery that might be case related?snip

Janet - I would have to say it was because he had faith in Tim Miller to ensure the right thing was done.

He couldn't possibly have known that Tim would be booted from the boat by Silvetti at the crucial time.

I would hope that Dave had discussed with Silvetti and/or Schaefer prior to Persistence leaving the US his thoughts on an FBI present aboard the ship.

If he did, I have to presume he was fed some song and dance by Silvetti/Schaefer about Aruba not letting them dock if such a person was aboard..............and so Dave had to rely on his faith in Tim Miller.

[Tamikosmom]

I don't give Dave a pass, but I'm not ready to throw him under the bus either.  His trusting the wrong people could have very well furthered the Aruban agenda of divide and conquer when it comes to Natalee's family.  As far as I'm aware of Dave doesn't spend a lot of time in the forums.  The last I know of Robin was not posting at BNH anymore.  I'd hoped that when she stopped posting there that it was because she (or together with Dave) had realized what those people were all about.  I really don't know.  I do not believe that Dave would have intentionally done ANYTHING that would have disrupted the investigation, or gone along with anything that would have prevented Natalee being found or brought home.  All indications I have are that Dave fully trusted and believed that the Persistence mission was to finally bring Natalee home where she belongs; and any revelations that this is not so must be devastating for him.  I also don't believe a damn thing that Charlierat says about anything.  Throw bananas at will, that's just my opinion.

I don't either texasmom.

My point was that those from the forums (RU/BNH) who despicably undermine Beth Holloway's every word, action and motivation are the same who uphold Dave Holloway.

texasmom ... why do you believe that Dave Holloway would get a pass from these trolls with an Aruban agenda?

Charlierat claims that Beth's LOVING NATALEE is 90% fiction because she exposes what she perceives to be a corrupt Aruban investigation ... an exposure that has the potential of affecting the Aruban tourist industry which these troll are attempting to protect.

However ... Dave 's CORRUPTION IN PARADISE which was released in 2006 ... prior to his Mark Purcell connection ... exposes what he perceives to be a corrupt Aruban investigation and ... in my debate with him on the Lifeline forum ... Charlierat attempts to distance Dave's words by implying Dave never actually authored his book ... Larry Garrison did.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

Thank you all for your input regarding my concerns regarding Dave Holloway's relationship with those who are one with the Aruban coverup that has prevented justice from prevailing from the getgo.

Food for Thought

Considering his extensive background knowledge regarding the dynamics encompassing the corrupt Aruban investigation into the disappearance of his daughter ... why did Dave Holloway not determine for himself that this huge undertaking that was intended to bring closure was all for naught if there was no assurance in place that an FBI presence would be permitted on board to observe a chain of custody of any discovery that might be case related?snip

Janet - I would have to say it was because he had faith in Tim Miller to ensure the right thing was done.

He couldn't possibly have known that Tim would be booted from the boat by Silvetti at the crucial time.

I would hope that Dave had discussed with Silvetti and/or Schaefer prior to Persistence leaving the US his thoughts on an FBI present aboard the ship.

If he did, I have to presume he was fed some song and dance by Silvetti/Schaefer about Aruba not letting them dock if such a person was aboard..............and so Dave had to rely on his faith in Tim Miller.

Jen

You know in your heart that you and I would have anticipated the negative outcome of the Persistence endeavor if a protocol to assure an FBI presence was not in place.  You and I  would not have endorsed this huge undertaking nor would we have solicited donations for the cause.  You and I would not have gone along and ... just hoped for the best.

The question that I am in the process of researching is ... "When you consider their extensive background knowledge of the corrupt Aruban investigation ... were there underlying motivations that that Dave Holloway and/or Tim Miller ... two men who truly desire justice for Natalee ... went along with this huge expensive endeavor?"

Beth Holloway deserves answers.  Natalee Holloway deserves answers.  Those who prayfully and financially supported the Persistence undertaking deserves answers.

Kyle Kingman's concedes that he had an underlying motive to "hope for the best".  John Silvetti was underwriting his expenses.

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 06/13/08:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

[Blonde]

IMO only Dave have faith and believed that it was enough.
Dave is  much different then Beth.
 

[jen3560]

Jen

You know in your heart that you and I would have anticipated the negative outcome of the Persistence endeavor if a protocol to assure an FBI presence was not in place.  You and I  would not have endorsed this huge undertaking nor would we have solicited donations for the cause.  You and I would not have gone along and ... just hoped for the best.

The question that I am in the process of researching is ... "When you consider their extensive background knowledge of the corrupt Aruban investigation ... were there underlying motivations that that Dave Holloway and/or Tim Miller ... two men who truly desire justice for Natalee ... went along with this huge expensive endeavor?"

Beth Holloway deserves answers.  Natalee Holloway deserves answers.  Those who prayfully and financially supported the Persistence undertaking deserves answers.

Kyle Kingman's concedes that he had an underlying motive to "hope for the best".  John Silvetti was underwriting his expenses.

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 06/13/08:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

You couldn't be more right Janet.  I DID know in my heart that if FBI wasn't on board, things would go South.  That's why that was the first question I asked Kyle after he emailed us = "what protocol is in place for if/when you find Natalee?"

 

And you're right again - neither you nor I would have endorsed, nor held out hope for a positive outcome of this search without an FBI presence.

But like Blonde pointed out, Dave is built of different stuff than you or I are.  Different stuff than Beth is.

Dave just had faith.  That's all he had. That faith was in Tim Miller and God.

Not the greatest of plans, I'll admit - but that was all the man had, unfortunately.  I liken that poor situation to Dave's need to have that pond searched.

The poor man has been torn in too many different directions, all with negative results by people with other agendas........and that has got to cause more grief than I can even fathom.

Janet - you know I'm not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination, so it is very hard for me to understand how a person (Dave) could rely on faith alone when such a monumental task was at hand.

But I cannot fault him for that, because that's who he is.

LEAK = "Jug knew the Persistence's main purpose was oil related"

I have to wonder if Dave was also made aware of that?  It would seem not, since he arranged a meeting with AHATA for Silvetti to get a large donation to continue the search.

Had Dave known what Jug supposedly knew - it's unlikely that he would have fallen for their bullsh*t "We need more money" pleadings.

Had Dave known what Jug supposedly knew - maybe he would have approached this whole "search" with a different frame of mind.

Edit:   

[jen3560]

sorry 2NJ! 

[Keepthefaith]

After the Pond Hoax and,the evidence of who was involved,it becomes more difficult for me to understand what the purpose of dealing with these people is?I could be wrong and Dave has a plan.I don't know!

[jen3560]

After the Pond Hoax and,the evidence of who was involved,it becomes more difficult for me to understand what the purpose of dealing with these people is?I could be wrong and Dave has a plan.I don't know!

I don't know either if he has a plan.

Or is it just Dave's character?  To look for the best in people?  To expect good intentions from all?

[2NJSons_Mom]

After the Pond Hoax and,the evidence of who was involved,it becomes more difficult for me to understand what the purpose of dealing with these people is?I could be wrong and Dave has a plan.I don't know!

I don't know either if he has a plan.

Or is it just Dave's character?  To look for the best in people?  To expect good intentions from all?

I was wondering the same......I would think anything done would be under advisement, but then, I don't really know.   Dave always seemed to put his trust in a higher power and thus expect the best in people, their intentions and an outcome.    We really don't know what his thoughts are about the pond, do we?

[jen3560]

Janet - if I'm understanding where your mind is tentatively heading with Dave.............

A good avenue to investigate would be the foundation/trust/charity that he set up.

The one BFN Debbie is on the board of directors for.

[jen3560]

After the Pond Hoax and,the evidence of who was involved,it becomes more difficult for me to understand what the purpose of dealing with these people is?I could be wrong and Dave has a plan.I don't know!

I don't know either if he has a plan.

Or is it just Dave's character?  To look for the best in people?  To expect good intentions from all?

I was wondering the same......I would think anything done would be under advisement, but then, I don't really know.   Dave always seemed to put his trust in a higher power and thus expect the best in people, their intentions and an outcome.    We really don't know what his thoughts are about the pond, do we?

I remember reading that he felt he HAD to search it, that he didn't know of a reason for why this "tipster" would lie to him.  That he didn't hold out much hope for it - but that he would forever beat himself up if he hadn't had it searched.

Those aren't his exact words, but that was the gist of it, IIRC.