Natalee Case Discussion #819 5/17/09 - 6/10/09

[2NJSons_Mom]

After the Pond Hoax and,the evidence of who was involved,it becomes more difficult for me to understand what the purpose of dealing with these people is?I could be wrong and Dave has a plan.I don't know!

I don't know either if he has a plan.

Or is it just Dave's character?  To look for the best in people?  To expect good intentions from all?

I was wondering the same......I would think anything done would be under advisement, but then, I don't really know.   Dave always seemed to put his trust in a higher power and thus expect the best in people, their intentions and an outcome.    We really don't know what his thoughts are about the pond, do we?

I remember reading that he felt he HAD to search it, that he didn't know of a reason for why this "tipster" would lie to him.  That he didn't hold out much hope for it - but that he would forever beat himself up if he hadn't had it searched.

Those aren't his exact words, but that was the gist of it, IIRC.

Yes, I recall reading such......I was thinking now, rather than earlier.  (if that makes any sense.)

[Magnolia]

I have tried a thousand times to figure what on earth Dave and Robin are doing.

The conclusion that I have drawn is that it is Robin who wants to conspire with
the likes of Mark Purcell and Julia Renfro and call them her friends.  I think the
common thread is that they all dislike Beth.  Robin might think that she may
garner some information from these people, but shse should have learned by now.

Dave, I think, just doesn't want to rock the boat.  He has two children with
Robin and I think he goes along to keep peace with her.  I think that Dave
loves his children.
That mess with Caps should have opened his eyes. And to discover that
Mark Purcell was part of the Caps diversion campaign should have been
a rude awakening for him.  But who knows what is in somebody else's heart?

[Tamikosmom]

Jen

You know in your heart that you and I would have anticipated the negative outcome of the Persistence endeavor if a protocol to assure an FBI presence was not in place.  You and I  would not have endorsed this huge undertaking nor would we have solicited donations for the cause.  You and I would not have gone along and ... just hoped for the best.

The question that I am in the process of researching is ... "When you consider their extensive background knowledge of the corrupt Aruban investigation ... were there underlying motivations that that Dave Holloway and/or Tim Miller ... two men who truly desire justice for Natalee ... went along with this huge expensive endeavor?"

Beth Holloway deserves answers.  Natalee Holloway deserves answers.  Those who prayfully and financially supported the Persistence undertaking deserves answers.

Kyle Kingman's concedes that he had an underlying motive to "hope for the best".  John Silvetti was underwriting his expenses.

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 06/13/08:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

You couldn't be more right Janet.  I DID know in my heart that if FBI wasn't on board, things would go South.  That's why that was the first question I asked Kyle after he emailed us = "what protocol is in place for if/when you find Natalee?"

 

And you're right again - neither you nor I would have endorsed, nor held out hope for a positive outcome of this search without an FBI presence.

But like Blonde pointed out, Dave is built of different stuff than you or I are.  Different stuff than Beth is.

Dave just had faith.  That's all he had. That faith was in Tim Miller and God.

Not the greatest of plans, I'll admit - but that was all the man had, unfortunately.  I liken that poor situation to Dave's need to have that pond searched.

The poor man has been torn in too many different directions, all with negative results by people with other agendas........and that has got to cause more grief than I can even fathom.

Janet - you know I'm not a religious person by any stretch of the imagination, so it is very hard for me to understand how a person (Dave) could rely on faith alone when such a monumental task was at hand.

But I cannot fault him for that, because that's who he is.

LEAK = "Jug knew the Persistence's main purpose was oil related"

I have to wonder if Dave was also made aware of that?  It would seem not, since he arranged a meeting with AHATA for Silvetti to get a large donation to continue the search.

Had Dave known what Jug supposedly knew - it's unlikely that he would have fallen for their bullsh*t "We need more money" pleadings.

Had Dave known what Jug supposedly knew - maybe he would have approached this whole "search" with a different frame of mind.

Edit:   

Faith does not imply that common sense based on knowledge is not applied to situations on a daily basis to determine if certain actions will or will not produce positive outcomes.

Considering there was not a protocol established in regards to an FBI presence on board the Persistence ... Tim Miller and Dave Holloway's common sense based on past experiences  should have determined that a negative outcome was a given if the enemy were afforded unchallenged possession of anything discovered that may be case related.

Janet

+++++++

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245


On the Record w/ Greta - April 11, 2006

DAVE HOLLOWAY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S FATHER: Oh, the media was our best friend. If it hadn't been for the media this thing would have been swept under the table the very first day and we'd have been calling back to Aruba "Have you heard anything? Have you heard anything?" I truly believe that.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,191377,00.html


On the Record w / Greta - November 1, 2005

TIM MILLER: We actually had our team from Florida State University. Our underwater divers actually had a connection with somebody with the Navy who was willing to go ahead and bring their equipment. Gene Ralston, one of our members has equipment to go 800ft deep and he’s done a lot of stuff with the FBI and made those contacts. We gave Chief Dompig the phone number at the FBI. They were willing to bring their equipment. Gene was willing to bring his equipment. Everything just literally stopped. We had no clue what went wrong, our trip was basically in vain.


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - January 13, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think that it was in the—in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that‘s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/

[Buckeye]

... Parliament on Tuesday also rejected another motion from Brinkman which called for an investigation by Dutch detectives (Rijksrecherche) into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba in May 2005. Brinkman wants the detectives to particularly look at the first ten days of the disappearance of the young American woman.

Bijleveld-Schouten pointed out during last week’s meeting in Parliament that Dutch detectives didn’t have the authority to investigate on Aruba. She explained that the federal detectives (Landsrecherche) were already carrying out an investigation. Only the PVV supported Brinkman’s motion. ....

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/m020/brinkm020.html

[Tamikosmom]

Janet - if I'm understanding where your mind is tentatively heading with Dave.............

A good avenue to investigate would be the foundation/trust/charity that he set up.

The one BFN Debbie is on the board of directors for.

Thanks.

This foundation topic is on my research list but have not touched it yet as my DIL has determined that financial records are not necessarily forthcoming upon request but ... for now I am going in another direction ... a direction the encompasses the Persistence undertaking.

Janet

[Keepthefaith]

After the Pond Hoax and,the evidence of who was involved,it becomes more difficult for me to understand what the purpose of dealing with these people is?I could be wrong and Dave has a plan.I don't know!

I don't know either if he has a plan.

Or is it just Dave's character?  To look for the best in people?  To expect good intentions from all?

I was wondering the same......I would think anything done would be under advisement, but then, I don't really know.   Dave always seemed to put his trust in a higher power and thus expect the best in people, their intentions and an outcome.    We really don't know what his thoughts are about the pond, do we?

No we don't 2nj.I pray that it made him take pause and contemplate whom Robin,and or himself are choosing to deal with.Then again,maybe he has.As i'm just someone on a forum,all i can go on is what i read,as well as what is backed up with a solid foundation!

[jen3560]

After the Pond Hoax and,the evidence of who was involved,it becomes more difficult for me to understand what the purpose of dealing with these people is?I could be wrong and Dave has a plan.I don't know!

I don't know either if he has a plan.

Or is it just Dave's character?  To look for the best in people?  To expect good intentions from all?

I was wondering the same......I would think anything done would be under advisement, but then, I don't really know.   Dave always seemed to put his trust in a higher power and thus expect the best in people, their intentions and an outcome.    We really don't know what his thoughts are about the pond, do we?

I remember reading that he felt he HAD to search it, that he didn't know of a reason for why this "tipster" would lie to him.  That he didn't hold out much hope for it - but that he would forever beat himself up if he hadn't had it searched.

Those aren't his exact words, but that was the gist of it, IIRC.

Yes, I recall reading such......I was thinking now, rather than earlier.  (if that makes any sense.)

Ah!  gotcha.

[jen3560]

... Parliament on Tuesday also rejected another motion from Brinkman which called for an investigation by Dutch detectives (Rijksrecherche) into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba in May 2005. Brinkman wants the detectives to particularly look at the first ten days of the disappearance of the young American woman.

Bijleveld-Schouten pointed out during last week’s meeting in Parliament that Dutch detectives didn’t have the authority to investigate on Aruba. She explained that the federal detectives (Landsrecherche) were already carrying out an investigation. Only the PVV supported Brinkman’s motion. ....

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/m020/brinkm020.html

Thanks Buckeye.

Sad, but not surprising I guess.

[Keepthefaith]

... Parliament on Tuesday also rejected another motion from Brinkman which called for an investigation by Dutch detectives (Rijksrecherche) into the disappearance of Natalee Holloway on Aruba in May 2005. Brinkman wants the detectives to particularly look at the first ten days of the disappearance of the young American woman.

Bijleveld-Schouten pointed out during last week’s meeting in Parliament that Dutch detectives didn’t have the authority to investigate on Aruba. She explained that the federal detectives (Landsrecherche) were already carrying out an investigation. Only the PVV supported Brinkman’s motion. ....

http://www.thedailyherald.com/news/daily/m020/brinkm020.html

Thanks Buckeye.

Sad, but not surprising I guess.

Not at all!Those politicians know exactly what Dirty Lil Aruba is all about..My moneys on Paulus VDS setting up many accounts for many politicians..Whatta ya Bet????

[2NJSons_Mom]

[Tamikosmom]

I have no problem ... in the process of elimination ... the personal following up of tips by Dave Holloway.  However ... decernment is crucial when agendas that are meant to divert from the truth are taken into consideration.

When ... according to Kyle Kingman's own words ... John Silvetti was afforded unchallenged possession of the contents of the trap to the enemy ... the Aruban coverup agenda was furthered.

Dave Holloway's indepth knowledge regarding the dynamics encompassing the corrupt Aruban investigation implies that he was a participant in furthering the Aruban agenda when he endorsed an undertaking that involved only the enemy who has prevented justice from prevailing for his daughter from the getgo.

It is beyond comprehensible.  Justice for his daughter and bringing her home to rest on American soil should have been Dave's only objectives.  Diverting/compromising even a little bit from these objectives ... for whatever reason ... is not acceptable.

    

Janet

+++++++

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

[Keepthefaith]

Wow...We had 10guests there for a minute and they all disappeared...Where'd they all go?BastiBro??Any ideas?

[2NJSons_Mom]

Wow...We had 10guests there for a minute and they all disappeared...Where'd they all go?BastiBro??Any ideas?

Dinner in NL, Lunch in US (ET, CT).......just a guess.

[Keepthefaith]

Wow...We had 10guests there for a minute and they all disappeared...Where'd they all go?BastiBro??Any ideas?

Dinner in NL, Lunch in US (ET, CT).......just a guess.

Bastibro is having dinner with 10guests?? 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Wow...We had 10guests there for a minute and they all disappeared...Where'd they all go?BastiBro??Any ideas?

Dinner in NL, Lunch in US (ET, CT).......just a guess.

Bastibro is having dinner with 10guests?? 

Maybe a web meeting with a sandwich on the side.   

Some of the guests are monkeys who read and have nothing to say at the moment, too. 

We've been through quiet times like this before.  With any luck something will kick everything back into gear.....or hit a nerve....that works, too.   

[Keepthefaith]

Wow...We had 10guests there for a minute and they all disappeared...Where'd they all go?BastiBro??Any ideas?

Dinner in NL, Lunch in US (ET, CT).......just a guess.

Bastibro is having dinner with 10guests?? 

Maybe a web meeting with a sandwich on the side.   

Some of the guests are monkeys who read and have nothing to say at the moment, too. 

We've been through quiet times like this before.  With any luck something will kick everything back into gear.....or hit a nerve....that works, too.   

I do apologize 2nj.I shouldn't generalize like that!

[Keepthefaith]

I do find this interesting because we know Paulus & Son luv to play poker.Online poker too..Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.Wonder why?

In a letter dated Friday and faxed to Alliance Bank, the prosecutor said accounts held by payment processor Allied Systems Inc. are subject to seizure and forfeiture "because they constitute property involved in money laundering transactions and illegal gambling offenses." The letter was signed by Arlo Devlin-Brown, assistant U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uspoker0610,0,5993995.story

[2NJSons_Mom]

Where's Joran?   

[Nut44x4]

Where's Joran?   

 

[WhiskeyGirl]

I have no problem ... in the process of elimination ... the personal following up of tips by Dave Holloway.  However ... decernment is crucial when agendas that are meant to divert from the truth are taken into consideration.

When ... according to Kyle Kingman's own words ... John Silvetti was afforded unchallenged possession of the contents of the trap to the enemy ... the Aruban coverup agenda was furthered.

Dave Holloway's indepth knowledge regarding the dynamics encompassing the corrupt Aruban investigation implies that he was a participant in furthering the Aruban agenda when he endorsed an undertaking that involved only the enemy who has prevented justice from prevailing for his daughter from the getgo.

It is beyond comprehensible.  Justice for his daughter and bringing her home to rest on American soil should have been Dave's only objectives.  Diverting/compromising even a little bit from these objectives ... for whatever reason ... is not acceptable.

   

Janet

+++++++

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #746 4/4
« Reply #499 on: April 09, 2008, 12:39:50 AM »

If I understood Kyle correctly, and that would be that the Arubans retrieved and possessed all finds, not sharing anything with the crew, then that effort was a waste of time and effort. The only thing it could have accomplished was to locate additional evidence for the Arubans to destroy. I am not sure if that was the protocol out of Aruba's waters though. The effort was superb, but the game was fixed.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2769.msg372245;topicseen#msg372245

The early posters with Renfro's cell phone number were always suspect in my mind.  The callers to the Aruba tip line are up there to.  I wonder if anyone kept track?  Recorded the tips?

The tip line with the Dutch number after the re-enactment - what happened to all those tips?  Maybe they could be made public after all this time?

What's worse than the tip lines?  How about the missing van der Sloot phones.  Anyone pull the phone records on those puppys?  Wouldn't it be interesting to know who those phones/numbers had contact with in the days prior and after Natalee went missing?  Maybe someone was using them after they were lost?  Might there be some clues there?

Missing VDS phones - top of the suspect list.

jmho