Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 - 7/13/09

[SuzieQ]

Does anyone know who Mayra Arambatzis Smalley, friend of Helen Lujuez who is a friend of Donna Oduber who is a friend of Rob Smith, is?

I'm not sure that makes a bit of sense, but who is Mayra Arambatzis Smalley. She doesn't look young enough to be Freddie's sister.

[texasmom]

Good Night All

Janet
8:35 PM PT

Good night Janet.   

[Sleuth]

Hello monkeys,

Jen:  I didn't want you to think I missed your question - we are just on at different times.  Not a forensic search (although my opinion of a forensic search is totally different than ALE) - more like "let's just move the stuff around to see if there is anything blatently there to hide investigate".   And not early on.  Reminds me of the secondary search of the VDS residence - any one of us monkeys good have done a more thorough job.

BTW, I agree with your definition of hypocrisy.

[Sleuth]

Hello monkeys,

Jen:  I didn't want you to think I missed your question - we are just on at different times.  Not a forensic search (although my opinion of a forensic search is totally different than ALE) - more like "let's just move the stuff around to see if there is anything blatently there to hide investigate".   And not early on.  Reminds me of the secondary search of the VDS residence - any one of us monkeys good have done a more thorough job.
BTW, I agree with your definition of hypocrisy.

sorry for the mis-type - it was a cross between "any one of us monkeys could have" and "any good monkey would have" ...

[BUCKSHOT]

Just a real quick question...Who is Debbie?

[texasmom]

Does anyone know who Mayra Arambatzis Smalley, friend of Helen Lujuez who is a friend of Donna Oduber who is a friend of Rob Smith, is?

I'm not sure that makes a bit of sense, but who is Mayra Arambatzis Smalley. She doesn't look young enough to be Freddie's sister.

SuzieQ, here's a link to some information on the Arambatzis family.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2973.0

In a fairly recent picture of Freddy, note the name tag:  Freddy Zedan

http://epiaruba.com/mambo//index.php?option=com_ice&Itemid=54&catid=16&mode=0&PageNo=32770#IceGallery

[Sleuth]

This may be a repeat of other articles regarding the musical...

After all the hype - now 'Natalee - The Musical'
Published on : 22 June 2009 - 5:19pm | By Johan van Slooten
First there was the TV documentary, then came the book and the film and now there’s even the musical: the tragic story of the disappearance of American teenager Natalee Holloway on the Caribbean island of Aruba in 2005. But does that story really lend itself to entertainment?

Natalee – The Musical, conceived and performed by Dutch students with the Amsterdam PIPS Lab theatre company, focuses on the worldwide media coverage of Natalee’s disappearance. “It’s about the media hype”, director Thijs de Wit says. “No questions were asked about the motives that some people used to create this hype – until now”.
 
The show uses simple techniques to attract the audience’s attention: the small stage features a car, cameras everywhere, and 11 students in beach clothes. Above the stage there’s a large video screen.
 
Clips
Thijs de Wit says the musical is a performance of clips featuring Natalee Holloway, based on renowned Dutch crime reporter Peter R. de Vries’s TV documentary, with various clips taken from the internet. “We’ve edited these images and put them in a different sequence, turning them into something completely different”, he says.
 
Hype
Mr De Wit got the idea for Natalee – The Musical after he had become intrigued by the commercial media hype that surrounded the personal suffering of the Holloway family. “Although I do recognise the intense suffering the family had to go through, there are numerous girls like Natalee”, Mr De Wit says.
 
“You don’t hear anything about all those other girls that are missing. Natalee’s case has been blown out of proportions and I don’t understand why”.
 
The show starts with a wall of thunderous music, with lyrics that are almost impossible to understand – but that’s deliberate, Thijs says. “I don’t want the audience to ask themselves any questions during the first 15 minutes of the show. They can do that after the show”.
 
Tasteless?
But isn’t it a bit strange – tasteless even – to stage a musical show on the suffering of others? Thijs de Wit doesn’t think so. “This case has already been exploited by people who were directly involved, like Natalee’s mother Beth, or Joran van der Sloot [who to many is the prime suspect], and TV and film producers".
 
“So why shouldn’t an artist be allowed to do the same and turn it into something grotesque?" he adds. "Besides, a musical is the most commercialised form of theatre, so I thought it was appropriate to use that form for a stage production that dealt with commercialisation”.
 
Frown
Mr De Wit allows the audience to frown on these things, but on one condition: “They should then consider everything else that’s been happening”, he says. “Seven million people [in the Netherlands] watched Mr De Vries’s TV programme, which was much more commercialised than this performance. He sold it to American networks for a lot of money. So who is wrong here?”.
 
Mock the subject
The show’s audiences have responded well to the musical. “The singing was good and the show was less serious than I’d expected”, says one spectator. Some people do wonder whether it's a good thing to stage such a show, but the answers to this question are positive: “You can do it the way they did it”, says another visitor. “But if you do it any other way, it will be difficult. You clearly see they are mocking the subject itself. It’s not dealing with what actually happened to that girl. This is just a fun, crazy show”.
 
Listen to a Newsline interview with Thijs de Vries
http://www.rnw.nl/english/article/after-all-hype-now-natalee-musical


Johan van Slooten - Newsline host and radio producer

[2NJSons_Mom]

Just a real quick question...Who is Debbie?

Admin of BFN, Buckshot.  (Good to see you, again, btw)

[2NJSons_Mom]

The use of the word WE is very strange....I wonder if the Persistence crew did a sample dive but left everything there to watch ALE...Then ALE took off with all the contents of the trap...hmmm 

hotping ... Tim Trahan was not on the boat on January 7th but ... Kyle never specified when he left the ship following the December 30th visual dive.  Could it be that Tim Trahan did another dive on the trap prior to the recovery process.
If there was nothing case related in that trap .... considering Kyle Kingman's own words ... in his defence ... I cannot comprehend why John Silvetti would not turn over ROV videos and documentation to the FBI.

If there was nothing case related in that trap ... considering Kyle Kingman's own words ... in his defence ... I cannot comprehend why John Silvetti is not joining forces with the former administrator of the Natalee's Freebirds ... in obtaining evidence that can be used in a defamation lawsuit?

If there was nothing case related in that trap ... considering Kyle Kingman's own words ... why were Kyle Kingman, Louis Schaefer and Tim Traham attempting to make a deal with networks to expose the "conspiracy"?

It is as if John Silvetti and his supporters are hoping Kyle Kingman's words will just go away and ... give the family and those who supported the search effort prayfully and financially the impression that John Silvetti did not participate in the finale to the the Aruban coverup that has denied justice to an 18 year old American citizen since May 30, 2005.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:   On the contrary, neither Dave, Robin, or Beth has seen any of the ROV footage aside from what was broadcasted on Dateline or the pictures leaked from the FBI to Dave (and Robin H.). Beth has seen nothing in my knowledge.  Oh, noone has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself.

Kyle Kingman – 05/19/08:  I couldn't get the logs from the Persistence. All things "Holloway" were stripped from the boat once it got back to Louisiana. I had some stuff on my hard drive, but not those logs with the names. The logs and other information are in an unknown secure location. Only two people know that location and I am not one of them. I know better not even to ask about it, especially now."

Kyle Kingman:  Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

I believe that Tim Trahan could have made a second dive..... 

I believe you could be right.  I believe that Kyle's words may have been orchestrated.....just my thoughts at the moment and at other times.  I just cannot prove them.

My thoughts were that it was a slip up on Kyle's part that He did not consciously mean to say WE.....JMO

I am not sure what he was meaning to say, at this point.  ..thus the term orchestrated....I'm having a no trust moment with a lot of his posts....you may be on the mark as I said.  Time will tell. 

[BUCKSHOT]

Just a real quick question...Who is Debbie?

Admin of BFN, Buckshot.  (Good to see you, again, btw)

U2, as well as others.

Debbie is a stage name for the internet, I presume.
Does her real name coincide with known connections?

[texasmom]

Hello monkeys,

Jen:  I didn't want you to think I missed your question - we are just on at different times.  Not a forensic search (although my opinion of a forensic search is totally different than ALE) - more like "let's just move the stuff around to see if there is anything blatently there to hide investigate".   And not early on.  Reminds me of the secondary search of the VDS residence - any one of us monkeys good have done a more thorough job.
BTW, I agree with your definition of hypocrisy.

sorry for the mis-type - it was a cross between "any one of us monkeys could have" and "any good monkey would have" ...

It's always good to see you Sleuth!   

[2NJSons_Mom]

Just a real quick question...Who is Debbie?

Admin of BFN, Buckshot.  (Good to see you, again, btw)

U2, as well as others.

Debbie is a stage name for the internet, I presume.
Does her real name coincide with known connections?

      I have no idea if Debbie is her real first name or not.   Others, who have had experience there may have more input than I.....I am reigstered under another name and have never posted and have had minimal reading time there. 

[texasmom]

IRIS44

Since when is wondering if members of Natalee's family or Tim Miller may have been "duped" by members of AHATA disquised as friends, the same thing as not supporting the family?

We have always supported Natalee and Natalee's parents (Beth and Dave).  I have also supported Jug as he did his best to stand by Natalee and Beth.  Robin on the other hand does her best to stand by Reality and MIP6 who have both said horrible things about the MB kids, Beth and Jug.  That is something I personally cannot support.

Iris44 - my post above too simple to reply to?

I'm giving this a bump up, maybe Iris44 didn't see it?   

[SuzieQ]

Thanks Texasmom,
Started reading at the link you gave me and got very confused. I think MumInOhio got some of it wrong. In the Spanish community( and by them being from Venezuela I assume they are Spanish) they go by two surnames. The father first, and the mother last. So Freddie's name would be Freddie Arambatzis Zedan. Arambatzis being his father and Zedan being his mother. When they live in other countries they either hyphonate the names or just go by their mothers' name.

[2NJSons_Mom]

IRIS44

Since when is wondering if members of Natalee's family or Tim Miller may have been "duped" by members of AHATA disquised as friends, the same thing as not supporting the family?

We have always supported Natalee and Natalee's parents (Beth and Dave).  I have also supported Jug as he did his best to stand by Natalee and Beth.  Robin on the other hand does her best to stand by Reality and MIP6 who have both said horrible things about the MB kids, Beth and Jug.  That is something I personally cannot support.

Iris44 - my post above too simple to reply to?

I'm giving this a bump up, maybe Iris44 didn't see it?   

She has a different posting schedule than some of us, it seems.  Irregular, imo. 

[BUCKSHOT]

The crime was fairly simple...
The cover-up has been never-ending...

Just when a person thinks they have it all figured out...More questions...
Good thing there are a lot of smart Monkeys around here...

[2NJSons_Mom]

Thanks Texasmom,
Started reading at the link you gave me and got very confused. I think MumInOhio got some of it wrong. In the Spanish community( and by them being from Venezuela I assume they are Spanish) they go by two surnames. The father first, and the mother last. So Freddie's name would be Freddie Arambatzis Zedan. Arambatzis being his father and Zedan being his mother. When they live in other countries they either hyphonate the names or just go by their mothers' name.

When I worked in personnel years ago, I thought it was the middle surname that was the mother's .....guess they had me fooled. 

[SuzieQ]

Forgot to add, Spain is one of the few Matriarchal socities in the world.

[texasmom]

Thanks Texasmom,
Started reading at the link you gave me and got very confused. I think MumInOhio got some of it wrong. In the Spanish community( and by them being from Venezuela I assume they are Spanish) they go by two surnames. The father first, and the mother last. So Freddie's name would be Freddie Arambatzis Zedan. Arambatzis being his father and Zedan being his mother. When they live in other countries they either hyphonate the names or just go by their mothers' name.

YW SuzieQ, I'm not surprised by the confusion at all; been there done that.   

I knew that many had contributed to the information, and thought you might find something helpful there.

Your input is appreciated!   

[2NJSons_Mom]

Thanks, SusieQ and everyone.  Was away for the weekend and am fading.  (tired blood?...     )   

Have a good night.

Justice for Natalee.