Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 - 7/13/09

[Magnolia]

I have been thinking about Tim Miller and the Persistence.

My thought is that Tim may have thought that Aruba was ready to get the case behind them.

If Natalee was found, he may have trusted that they would let it be known, since it would be
hard to directly link Joran to her remains after such a long time in salt water.
I must admit that was my thought way back in 2007.

I am not trying to argue, just offering a "maybe"

[texasmom]

I have been thinking about Tim Miller and the Persistence.

My thought is that Tim may have thought that Aruba was ready to get the case behind them.

If Natalee was found, he may have trusted that they would let it be known, since it would be
hard to directly link Joran to her remains after such a long time in salt water.
I must admit that was my thought way back in 2007.

I am not trying to argue, just offering a "maybe"

I think it's a reasonable "maybe" Magnolia.  I had hoped the same was true about Aruba myself way back in 2007.

A tennis shoe found in the same location that could be connected to one missing may have posed a problem; but I'm sure there would have been an easy defense of that too....set up!

[iris44]

When Tim Miller's past experience with the Aruban "powers that be" in the Natalee Holloway investigation is considered ... what foundation did Tim derive his contention that the enemy ... who has had a coverup agenda since May 30, 2005 ... would partner with the Persistence crew in the quest for justice if anything Natalee Holloway related was discovered in Aruban waters.

Janet

++++++

On the Record w / Greta - November 1, 2005

TIM MILLER:  We actually had our team from Florida State University. Our underwater divers actually had a connection with somebody with the Navy who was willing to go ahead and bring their equipment. Gene Ralston, one of our members has equipment to go 800ft deep and he’s done a lot of stuff with the FBI and made those contacts. We gave Chief Dompig the phone number at the FBI. They were willing to bring their equipment. Gene was willing to bring his equipment. Everything just literally stopped. We had no clue what went wrong, our trip was basically in vain.


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - January 13, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think that it was in the—in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that‘s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine.  ... What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#

So it seems that at least Dompig thought Natalee was in the ocean.  I can't remember, did Dompig say publicly that he thought she was in the ocean?  I seem to recall he told Dave that at some point.

[2NJSons_Mom]

When Tim Miller's past experience with the Aruban "powers that be" in the Natalee Holloway investigation is considered ... what foundation did Tim derive his contention that the enemy ... who has had a coverup agenda since May 30, 2005 ... would partner with the Persistence crew in the quest for justice if anything Natalee Holloway related was discovered in Aruban waters.

Janet

++++++

On the Record w / Greta - November 1, 2005

TIM MILLER:  We actually had our team from Florida State University. Our underwater divers actually had a connection with somebody with the Navy who was willing to go ahead and bring their equipment. Gene Ralston, one of our members has equipment to go 800ft deep and he’s done a lot of stuff with the FBI and made those contacts. We gave Chief Dompig the phone number at the FBI. They were willing to bring their equipment. Gene was willing to bring his equipment. Everything just literally stopped. We had no clue what went wrong, our trip was basically in vain.


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - January 13, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think that it was in the—in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that‘s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine.  ... What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#

So it seems that at least Dompig thought Natalee was in the ocean.  I can't remember, did Dompig say publicly that he thought she was in the ocean?  I seem to recall he told Dave that at some point.

Here is one instance from Oct.,2005....he was all over the place, imo.....there may be more out there somewhere:

(snipped)

COSBY: And also, real quick, Chief, I know that there’s sort of a renewed search, from what we heard, at the lighthouse, also the fisherman’s hut, two of the sort of the key areas there in Aruba. Is there anything, any new evidence to sort of suggest that they should start those searches there again?

DOMPIG: No, no, no. I regret to say no. We’re still looking in the ocean. And don’t forget that, by this time, we’re not looking for a body anymore. But basically, if a body was dropped there, you’re talking about bones.

http://scaredmonkeys.com/2005/10/31/dompig-i-can-say-even-though-we-butted-heads-a-couple-of-times-but-we-basically-renewed-our-vows-to-work-together/

[Tamikosmom]

When Tim Miller's past experience with the Aruban "powers that be" in the Natalee Holloway investigation is considered ... what foundation did Tim derive his contention that the enemy ... who has had a coverup agenda since May 30, 2005 ... would partner with the Persistence crew in the quest for justice if anything Natalee Holloway related was discovered in Aruban waters.

Janet

++++++

On the Record w / Greta - November 1, 2005

TIM MILLER:  We actually had our team from Florida State University. Our underwater divers actually had a connection with somebody with the Navy who was willing to go ahead and bring their equipment. Gene Ralston, one of our members has equipment to go 800ft deep and he’s done a lot of stuff with the FBI and made those contacts. We gave Chief Dompig the phone number at the FBI. They were willing to bring their equipment. Gene was willing to bring his equipment. Everything just literally stopped. We had no clue what went wrong, our trip was basically in vain.


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - January 13, 2006

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY: I think that it was in the—in October, possibly early November, when Tim Miller was trying to finish this search when, of course, the depth of the water exceeded his equipment. And that‘s when he was needing the officials on the island to contact or pick up the phone and make one phone call to the FBI for some additional equipment. And they refused to do that.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10836208/


private eye
Discussion #742 3/10 -
« Reply #686 on: March 13, 2008, 06:38:07 PM »

But sharing information with people who work for people who are directly orchestrating the cover up, Rudy, or the Dutch, is the most irresponsible investigating I can imagine.  ... What I pray that Kyle and the crew of the Persistence will determine, is that regardless of how hard working the man that they are working with appears to work, his work belongs to Rudy, and Rudy belongs to the local dutch.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2689.msg364750#

So it seems that at least Dompig thought Natalee was in the ocean.  I can't remember, did Dompig say publicly that he thought she was in the ocean?  I seem to recall he told Dave that at some point.

Yes he did Iris but ... Gerald Dompig would not do what needed to be done to allow Tim Miller to search for Natalee Holloway remains in November, 2005.  The trap discovered by Kyle Kingman was located in the exact location indicated by Dompig.

Why?

Hey ... Gerold Dompig ... whose position dicated that he had an indepth knowledge of what was taking place within the Aruban investigation ... implicated Joran, Deepak and Satish in the happenings encompassing the morning of May 30, 2005.

However ... four years later Natalee Holloway's remains have not been returned to her family and ... Joran, Deepak and Satish have not been held accountable.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman – 03/18/08:   The tip Dave go said the trap was 2-3 miles offshore. I found this one 2-3 miles offshore. 2.1-2.2 miles if memory serves.


ARUBAN CHIEF OF POLICE - GEROLD DOMPIG

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'

GEROLD DOMPIG: I still believe that these boys have been lying, they're still lying, and everybody knows that by now. So there's no doubt in my mind that they know something, they're guilty of something.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12187266/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'

RITA COSBY: Do you believe, Chief—you said to me even before this interview that you believe the boys are guilty as hell. Do you believe they‘re involved in her disappearance?
GEROLD DOMPIG: Yes.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9910586/from/RL.3/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct'

GEROLD DOMPIG: Joran went back and forth with his statements, and he withdrew two statements which he had already given to us. So basically, none of his statements were really trustworthy.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9727957/


'Abrams Report'

GEROLD DOMPIG: Well, it would take me, I think, a little over two days to go over all the inconsistencies. None of the stories match up, let me put it that way. So when it comes to believing this individual, we know in which category to place him.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9676188


'The Abrams Report'

GEROLD DOMPIG: I go by the rule of thumb that, in the first 40 days -- as I said in a different program -- the first 40 days, law enforcement has probably also already spoken to the perpetrators. So we feel strongly that we have already spoken to them. And there's no one else outside this group that could be involved or responsible.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9676188/page/2/


'The Abrams Report'

GEROLD DOMPIG: So sometimes people will ask us that, "Are you not tunnel-visioned? Maybe you should look at other possibilities." Of course. We did that. But we still feel that, every time you go on a path, a different path, that path leads back, comes back to these three boys.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9676188/page/2/

[Tamikosmom]

On the Record w/ Greta - February 27, 2008

TIM MILLER: The report we got is the DNA that came back did not match Natalee's DNA and when we located that it looked like more than just a piece of cloth and I mean we, we felt as though we seen a skull in there. We got the Aruba authorities involved, they felt there was something in there, we dove on it and the thing is that's only 1 of over 170 targets out there we still have to investigate, so we've got a lot of work ahead of us.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, HOST: Alright you said DNA, this was found in a crab trap below the surface in the water right?

MILLER:  It was in the water and Greta we was looking for a crab trap because we got reports that the night Natalee disappeared one of the fishermen's huts was broken into and a crab trap was stolen and I actually talked to a man there at the fishermen's huts, he verified about the hut being broken into and the crab trap being taken so it was really one of the things we was looking for.  In fact Chief Dompig told me 2-1/2 years ago in October when we was at the landfill that we needed to be out in the water, and he felt as though Natalee was put in a crab trap or some type of container ...

[Tamikosmom]

'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - October 28, 2005

RITA COSBY, HOST::  And also, real quick, Chief, I know that there‘s sort of a renewed search, from what we heard, at the lighthouse, also the fisherman‘s hut, two of the sort of the key areas there in Aruba.  Is there anything, any new evidence to sort of suggest that they should start those searches there again? 

GEROLD DOMPIG, DEPUTY POLICY CHIEF OF ARUBA:  No, no, no.  I regret to say no.  We‘re still looking in the ocean.  And don‘t forget that, by this time, we‘re not looking for a body anymore.  But basically, if a body was dropped there, you‘re talking about bones. 

COSBY:  And you believe there may still be some bones or something there, real quick? 

DOMPIG:  I hope so. 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9849849/

[Tamikosmom]

DOMPIG AND SON?


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: Just before Christmas they are contacted by a detective and his brother who gave them information that turned out to be the correct latitude

Kyle Kingman:  While we were searching shortly before Christmas, we were contacted by an Aruban detective who was involved in the Holloway case.  He claimed that his brother had a vision about Natalee¢s body offshore and had coordinates. He and his brother agreed to meet on the Persistence. The detective¢s brother gave what he thought were coordinates, but turned out to be a line of latitude. This latitude aligned with Arashi beach and came within a half mile of the fish trap.

Kyle Kingman:  IF a keydetective's brother knew the latitude the trap was disposed at or very near, then it's probable the detective knew the same.

Kyle Kingman:  The detective and his brother were both brown-skinned, but not black.

Kyle Kingman:   the detective was very internet and computer savy, which was unusual for the bulk of the Polis.

Kyle Kingman:  It seemed he knew who I was when we were introduced, and said something indicating he had been reading the blog.

Kyle Kingman:  The brother of the detective came to us and was very persistent over the information. He was almost in tears and just had to "clear his conscience" about it.  His brother, the detective came with him to 'validate him'.

Kyle Kingman:  I think he used his brother and gave us only the amount of information he felt we needed to come across the trap.  Basically, by using his brother and claiming the information he shared was only based on a vision, it distances the detective from responsibility and makes it hard to point back to him should it be a problem later.

Kyle Kingman:  However, this man was intelligent enough, cared about the case, yet was self implicated to a high enough level to want to be kept his knowledge a secret. He spoke well enough english and knew everything in my opinion.

Kyle Kingman:  The implications of this are tremendous. If true, it means that the early investigators knew where and how Natalee was disposed and it was kept secret and covered up.

Kyle Kingman:  Since the trap was only in 90ft of water and the detective knew about the latitude, did the Polis already know if it's location prior to the search?

Kyle Kingman:  The detective originally wouldn't meet with us and only wanted us to meet with his brother. We convinced him to meet along with his brother and made him feel as comfortable as possible. He reluctantly agreed but wouldn't talk.

Kyle Kingman:  After a while the detective started asking some questions and loosened up a bit. With the pointed questions he asked he proved he knew a lot, but we didn't press him.

[MuffyBee]

OT
Farrah Fawcett Thread: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5486.20

Michael Jackson Thread: http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?board=20.0

Janet~  Thank you for the articles/vid and links.  I've moved them to their threads.

[Tamikosmom]

GERALD DOMPIG AND THE OCEAN SEARCH

'Scarborough Country' - October 25, 2005

GERALD DOMPIG, ARUBAN DEPUTY CHIEF OF POLICE: Well, that‘s basically the reason why we are looking at the ocean right now, because, although we don‘t have an official statement or declaration that a fishing trap has been missing, there are enough rumors out there that we—lead us to believe that maybe that is the case.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9827906/


DATELINE - February 22, 2008

The deputy police chief saw Tim Miller and Dave Holloway and shared a hunch.

Tim Miller: And said, "There's no need for you all to be searching the landfill anymore." He said, "I think you all need to be out in the sea, three to five miles."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23301056/page/3/

[Tamikosmom]

GEROLD DOMPIT - THE OCEAN SEARCH

Fox Online Show - Jamie Colby - July 15, 2005
 
JAMIE COLBY:  Tim, let me ask you about this search. You want to go back, you want to search and focus underwater

TIM MILLER:That's another thing that Gerold Dompig actually told us when Dave and I was over there; that he felt that Natalee was out in the water, that the night the fishermen's hut was broken into, a knife was stolen, a rope was stolen and a large crab trap was stolen.  Gerold Dompig's words were "Natalee was put in that crab trap, they put rocks in it and they took her out 3 to 5 miles and she's 800 to 1,000 feet deep and we always thought about the water anyhow.

When Dave and I were over there we actually found the boat we truly feel took Natalee out to sea, so

[Tamikosmom]

I have been thinking about Tim Miller and the Persistence.

My thought is that Tim may have thought that Aruba was ready to get the case behind them.

If Natalee was found, he may have trusted that they would let it be known, since it would be
hard to directly link Joran to her remains after such a long time in salt water.
I must admit that was my thought way back in 2007.

I am not trying to argue, just offering a "maybe"

Magnolia ... you may be right.

However ... there is not one Monkey on this forum with an indepth knowledge of the Natalee Holloway case who would have been a participant in such a huge undertaking without assurance that there would be an FBI presence on board to observe the recovery process of anything that appeared to be Natalee Holloway related.

Considering the H--- on Earth that the Aruban "powers that be" put both Dave Holloway and Tim Miller through in their past respective quests for answers ... why did these men not foresee the negative outcome?

I contend that the cause of justice for Natalee and ... accountability to those who financially donated to the search effort implied certain established conditions should have been a given to insure what happened did not happen.  Giving the benefit of the doubt to those who have been behind the coverup from the getgo was so naive.

Kyle Kingman learned very quickly the dynamics encompassing the Aruban coverup from Monkeys and Freebirds just prior to the discovery and ... was very uncomfortable with affording the Arubans unchallenged custody of the cage contents.

Natalee Holloway's uncle also comprehended perfectly.

Janet

++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

DECEMBER 30, 2007

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive.  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.


JANUARY 7, 2008

Kyle Kingman   I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

Kyle Kingman:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap.


private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435

Edit/typo

[Tamikosmom]

Mods

Please edit my typo in Magnolia name in my above post.

Thank you.

Janet
Done.

[Magnolia]

GEROLD DOMPIT - THE OCEAN SEARCH

Fox Online Show - Jamie Colby - July 15, 2005
 
JAMIE COLBY:  Tim, let me ask you about this search. You want to go back, you want to search and focus underwater

TIM MILLER:That's another thing that Gerold Dompig actually told us when Dave and I was over there; that he felt that Natalee was out in the water, that the night the fishermen's hut was broken into, a knife was stolen, a rope was stolen and a large crab trap was stolen.  Gerold Dompig's words were "Natalee was put in that crab trap, they put rocks in it and they took her out 3 to 5 miles and she's 800 to 1,000 feet deep and we always thought about the water anyhow.

When Dave and I were over there we actually found the boat we truly feel took Natalee out to sea, so

That would be the boat that Rosalie Klein bought from the Gottenbos family, I think.
Dompig ws off by about 900ft and a couple of miles.

[Magnolia]

Somebody had told Tim Miller where the body was. IMO
He knew exactly where to go to look.
Kyle said something on the order of.... We found the cage almost exactly where Tim had thought it was.

[wreck]

Somebody had told Tim Miller where the body was. IMO
He knew exactly where to go to look.
Kyle said something on the order of.... We found the cage almost exactly where Tim had thought it was.

That is why I find Tim's reactions/subsequent behavior so puzzeling. 

[Tamikosmom]

Somebody had told Tim Miller where the body was. IMO
He knew exactly where to go to look.
Kyle said something on the order of.... We found the cage almost exactly where Tim had thought it was.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman – 03/18/08:   The tip Dave got said the trap was 2-3 miles offshore. I found this one 2-3 miles offshore. 2.1-2.2 miles if memory serves.

[Tamikosmom]

Somebody had told Tim Miller where the body was. IMO
He knew exactly where to go to look.
Kyle said something on the order of.... We found the cage almost exactly where Tim had thought it was.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman – 03/18/08:   The tip Dave got said the trap was 2-3 miles offshore. I found this one 2-3 miles offshore. 2.1-2.2 miles if memory serves.

GEROLD DOMPIT - THE OCEAN SEARCH

Fox Online Show - Jamie Colby - July 15, 2007
 
JAMIE COLBY:  Tim, let me ask you about this search. You want to go back, you want to search and focus underwater

TIM MILLER:That's another thing that Gerold Dompig actually told us when Dave and I was over there; that he felt that Natalee was out in the water, that the night the fishermen's hut was broken into, a knife was stolen, a rope was stolen and a large crab trap was stolen.  Gerold Dompig's words were "Natalee was put in that crab trap, they put rocks in it and they took her out 3 to 5 miles and she's 800 to 1,000 feet deep and we always thought about the water anyhow.

[billb's daughter]

this is the problem with 3rd world countries that put politics ahead of justice...
in a civilized society, you have FBI, Interpol, or another above board (not politicized) investigative agent that will take charge and impose justice.
I wish it would happen in aruba...
put kj, dompig, mos, richardson, jacobs, cohen, Jan van der Straten (my 1st choice!)  under the spotlight of justice!
The house of cards would crumble...BIG TIME!!!!

[billb's daughter]

Good night billb and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
Good talking with you..
Good night good Monkeys...
We are one day closer to Justice for Natalee!

Edit/typo