Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 - 7/13/09

[klaasend]

Gee what a shock: 

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_58791.php

[Tamikosmom]

Klaas

I was just reading in Musings that you were not well.  I hope you are now on the mend.

Janet

[texasmom]

texasmom

I hope you had a good day.

I feel great ... my house is perfectly clean.

 

I was motivated to vacuum and dust from top to bottom as hubby's sister and BIL where driving out from Vancouver mid afternoon for a visit, dinner and a movie.

Well ... BIL was called into work ... double time ... did not want to miss out.

Hubby and I decided to go to the movie anyways and .. invited friends to join us.  We will be leaving shortly.

Good Night Monkeys.

Janet
6:30 PM

I had a good day, thanks for asking Janet!  I hope you enjoy the movie, sounds like fun!

Good night Janet!   

[texasmom]

Does anyone know who this Jossy Mansur is, or is it just an old picture.
Friend of Julia Renfro
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1588057630&hiq=julia%2Crenfro

Maybe?

http://www.diarioaruba.com/diahuebs/staff/

snip

EDITOR
Agencia Arubano di Noticia

DIRECTOR
Jossy M. Mansur

DIRECTOR ASISTENTE
Luis M. Mansur

Jossy E. Mansur

Eduardo Mansur

Damilice Mansur

snip

http://www.diarioaruba.com/

6/6/2009 Diario Front Page

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.500





http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4129.msg546724#msg546724

In the middle picture, the guy on the far left, in blue shirt and blue jeans, has the same eyes/look as the "scary" guy, in the corner, in the Mos picture on the Persistence. The guy on boat looked heavier and had less hair but the face looks the same.   

If someone that has far better computer skills then i,could impose both pictures of this gentleman side by side,that would be greatly appreciated!TIA..

I don't know which one you meant KTF, and I'm not sure my skills are "far better"; but I tried. 
 

[texasmom]

I hope this is the one Buckeye meant! 

[texasmom]

Gee what a shock: 

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_58791.php

I know, I thought the same thing!   

[wreck]

Sidney Ponson is the biggest buffoon in Baseball .....................EVER!! 

[San]

Sidney Ponson is the biggest buffoon in Baseball .....................EVER!! 

He sure is.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Sidney Ponson is the biggest buffoon in Baseball .....................EVER!! 

He sure is.

Another of Aruba's finest.   

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[Tamikosmom]

Morning Exercises with Tamikosmom

One, Two, Three ...

[2NJSons_Mom]

[Tamikosmom]

REMINDER


THE CONFESSION - JUNE 10, 2005

On June 10, 2005, a spokesperson for the office of the Aruban Minister of Justice reported that authorities confirmed the death of Natalee Holloway and the location of her body was known.

The Aruban chief of police reported that one of the suspects had provided a confession but ... the chief refused to reveal which suspect.

Prior to the Aruban Justice Minister's denial and his spokesperson's retraction, Natalee Holloway's parents had been notified of their daughter's demise and ... some members were taken to the lighthouse located at Arisha beach.

Janet
7:35 AM PT

________

'Fox News'

David Cruz, a spokesman for the Aruban Minister of Justice (search) told FOX News Natalee Holloway (search), who was on vacation with friends with a graduation trip when she disappeared, was confirmed dead and that authorities knew the location of her body.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html


'Fox News'

RICK LEVENTHAL: We reconfirmed the information with Croues before going on-air with it.
 
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159664,00.html
 

'CBS News'

Holloway's family rushed late Friday to an old stone lighthouse beside Arisha beach after Deputy Police Commissioner Gerold Dompig told The Associated Press that one of three young men in custody admitted that "something bad happened" to Holloway and was leading police to the scene of the alleged crime.
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/06/10/national/main700829.shtml


'Meridian Star'

DAVE HOLLOWAY: At some point into this investigation, as time goes on and you don’t find her, you start realizing that things are not looking good. We got that confirmation pretty much from the FBI on June 10. They came to us and said the investigation appears to be heading toward a homicide case.

http://www.meridianstar.com/local/local_story_148205455.html


'Scarborough Country'

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, MOTHER OF NATALEE HOLLOWAY:  And that was the day that the FBI came in, Doug Shipley (ph) came in and said that the way the interrogations are unfolding, there‘s a strong possibility that Natalee may not be alive. That was huge. That was the day that—I think, Joe, everyone buried Natalee that day, on June 10.

And then it just—from there, the night went on. There were body sightings, countless. They were knocking on my door. They thought they found her. Oh, no, they didn‘t. It went on from 2:00 a.m. to 3:00 a.m. to 4:00 a.m. It was horrific.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9813596/


'Crime/Punishment'

Then Justice Minister Rudy Croes told reporters early Saturday morning that the rumor that one of the students had confessed was a lie, throwing the media on the island into confusion and prompting conflicting news alerts from the Caribbean. Croes emphatically denied that any confession had been made.

http://crime.about.com/b/2005/06/10/confusion-reigns-in-natalee-holloway-case.htm


'Fox News'

Cruz later retracted the statement, saying he was a victim of a "misinformation campaign."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,159252,00.html

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER

The personals and professional connections that existed between Paulus van der Sloot and those within the investigation ... within the government .... within the judiciary ... implies legal conflicts of interest under Dutch law.

Justice for Natalee Holloway never stood a chance!

______

CONFLICTS OF INTEREST

THE ACCORDING TO RUDY CROES

Dutch News - December 4, 2008

Van der Sloot father hindered Natalee probe’

Dutchman Jan van der Straten, who the Caribbean island of Aruba when US teenager Natalee Holloway disappeared, seriously hindered the investigation in the first few days, Aruban justice minister Rudy Croes is quoted as saying by news agency ANP.

ANP says Croes claims Van der Straten was slow to take action in order to help his friend Paul van der Sloot protect his son Joran, who was suspected of being involved in the disappearance. Such rumours have circulated on the island for some time, ANP says.

According to ANP, Croes made the statement following criticism of the Aruban police force made by Van der Straten earlier this week.
Questioning

Croes said that Joran and two other suspects were only taken in for questioning 10 days after Holloway went missing ‘when the first days are crucial in a disappearance’. And he claims he heard Van der Straten say ‘I cannot do that to my friend Paul’.
 
Croes also claims there were a lot of telephone conversations between Van der Sloot senior and Van der Straten and that a ‘second class’ police team was put on the investigation. ‘It was the team used during the carnival celebrations,’ ANP reports him as saying.

In addition, Croes accuses the Dutch government of failing to provide any moral support to Aruba. He says the Aruban authorities were pressurised to present Joran van der Sloot as an Aruban, not a Dutch national.

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2008/12/van_der_sloots_father_hindered.php


ACCORDING TO JOSSY MANSUR

NANCY GRACE - October 4, 2005

Latest in Search for Natalee Holloway

GRACE: … Jossy, regarding the connection, what I perceived to be a close connection between the judge, Paulus Van Der Sloot and the retired chief of police who initially handled Natalee`s case, Van Der Stratten, were they friends?

MANSUR: Of course, they were friends. It stands to reason they were friends because Paul Van Der Sloot had many friends within the police department; he had many friends within the Department of Justice. And he had many friends with -- and he was friendly with all the judges in Aruba. He worked out of the same office as they did and did the same work.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0510/04/ng.01.html


ACCORDING TO PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT

NOVA - June 28, 2005

TWAN HUYS:  Do you know the people very well, for example, the people here from the public prosecutors' office that ordered your detention?

PAULUS VAN DER SLOOT: Yes, for sure, because, before that, I have worked for eight years as chief of the cabinet of the prosecutor general.

HUYS: So, you also know the current prosecutor general?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.

HUYS: Mrs. Croes.

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes.

HUYS: Yes, and what does that mean when your colleagues stop by to arrest you?

VAN DER SLOOT That gives a feeling of absurdity. It is indeed almost unimaginable that by someone you actually know very well, where you worked together with for a long time, that that one comes to tell you that you are suspected of complicity to murder.

HUYS: Who was that in your case?

VAN DER SLOOT: That was, in this case, that was the leader of the team of police commissioners.

HUYS: Jan van der Straaten.

VAN DER SLOOT: That was Jan van der Straaten, yes.

HUYS: And you know each other very well?

VAN DER SLOOT: Yes

http://scrux.com/natalee/paulusinterview.htm

[WhiskeyGirl]

In December, 2007 ... SS was distancing herself from John Silvetti and CAPS.  She was a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words.  What/Who cased her backtrack and ... once again embrace those whose loyalty to the cause of justice for Natalee Holloway now took a backseat.

Janet

++++++++


DECEMBER, 2007

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #702 on: December 06, 2008, 03:41:17 PM »

Tim became a liability because her had the film footage from the 29th and the 30th.  He knew what was in the cage.  Just from the original Photographs on the 29th, we can clearly see a skull and a shoe.  I think Tim probably became a source of contention and was distracted away from the ship so the contents could be turned over to ALE.  Tim has to have figured out what happened.  I wonder if it's difficult for him to look at Beth and Dave in their eyes.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569184#msg569184


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  On Dec 30th the Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present). After the Dec 30th dive John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability. I don't know what that exactly means, but Tim wasn't hurting anything except releasing the statements to the press and Holloways that we found Natalee. Although likely true, it was premature and should have been replaced with action- seeing that the evidence was collected and handled properly.

I know Tim believed me and was convinced 100% which is why he went and told Dave that we found Natalee on Dec 29th. John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis to arrange the next dive -Dec 30th's which was the visual-only dive.

On the night of the 30th (I believe this was Tim's last night on the Persistence) I approached Tim and proposed some ideas to him. I suggested that we shouldn't take the Aruban Polis divers at their word and proceed with planning a recovery of the trap. Also, I proposed the trap site may not be pristine or the Polis may have already knew about it. This statement was backed up by several comments we heard, behavior we observed, and other things. Tim told me he thought I was right but didn't know what to do about it. I hadn't slept in 48 hours

I crashed for a few hours rest and by the time I got up Dateline and Tim Miller had left the boat. That is when John assumed full control over the remainder of the project and had us searching in the deepest portions of our search area which coincided with Richardson's remarks.

Richardson told us after the Jan-7th dive to keep searching in deep water.

John told me then he didn't want to hear me ever mention the trap again. Of course this didn't set well with me.

Kyle Kingman:  It's unanimous that Tim M. should never have told Dave and Beth anything about the trap until it's contents were forensically examined.  After the diver visual inspection of the trap he was obligated to report what the Aruban divers reported because although limited, it's the only information he had and the family rightfully wanted answers. It was a royal mess.

Kyle Kingman:   Tim Miller was never on the Persistence while I was not on board.  He stepped off on or about the 1st of Jan to follow up on the false lead in Costa Rica IIRC.

Persistence, John Silvetti, and all those who searched for Natalee will always be on the hero list.  How many would spend long days searching the water, the dump, the crack houses?  

Humans may form opinions of their conduct.  My opinion - all the searchers are on the hero list.

God knows what is in their heart.

[bastibro]

WHO was able to convence SS to backtrack?  I contend that it is very important that this person is identified.

SS was able to articulate so well why she was a believer that Natalee Holloway was in that trap.

Janet

++++++++

DECEMBER, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #697 on: December 06, 2008, 03:26:15 PM »

I have pretty much been a believer that Natalee was buried on land, but after Kyle's calculations, I don't think so anymore.  Kyle is a trained oceanographer and he has been taught how to make those calculations of objects on the ocean floor.  Kyle's calculations are actually the first piece of scientific data that we have after three and a half years .....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569178#msg569178


JANUARY, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #795 1/23/09 -
« Reply #508 on: January 26, 2009, 11:00:46 PM »

I don't believe Natalee was in the cage.  I have believed for a long time that Natalee was put in a cemetery .....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4434.msg646440#msg646440

I think SS just came to her senses, unlike some others
It`s also possible that she is more informed

[2NJSons_Mom]

WHO was able to convence SS to backtrack?  I contend that it is very important that this person is identified.

SS was able to articulate so well why she was a believer that Natalee Holloway was in that trap.

Janet

++++++++

DECEMBER, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #697 on: December 06, 2008, 03:26:15 PM »

I have pretty much been a believer that Natalee was buried on land, but after Kyle's calculations, I don't think so anymore.  Kyle is a trained oceanographer and he has been taught how to make those calculations of objects on the ocean floor.  Kyle's calculations are actually the first piece of scientific data that we have after three and a half years .....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569178#msg569178


JANUARY, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #795 1/23/09 -
« Reply #508 on: January 26, 2009, 11:00:46 PM »

I don't believe Natalee was in the cage.  I have believed for a long time that Natalee was put in a cemetery .....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4434.msg646440#msg646440

I think SS just came to her senses, unlike some others

So, you believe Natalee is on land, as some others also believe?
It`s also possible that she is more informed

Can you elaborate?  Do you know for a fact that SS is more informed?

[2NJSons_Mom]

    Were my questions that difficult?     

[Tamikosmom]

WHO was able to convence SS to backtrack?  I contend that it is very important that this person is identified.

SS was able to articulate so well why she was a believer that Natalee Holloway was in that trap.

Janet

++++++++

DECEMBER, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #697 on: December 06, 2008, 03:26:15 PM »

I have pretty much been a believer that Natalee was buried on land, but after Kyle's calculations, I don't think so anymore.  Kyle is a trained oceanographer and he has been taught how to make those calculations of objects on the ocean floor.  Kyle's calculations are actually the first piece of scientific data that we have after three and a half years .....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569178#msg569178


JANUARY, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #795 1/23/09 -
« Reply #508 on: January 26, 2009, 11:00:46 PM »

I don't believe Natalee was in the cage.  I have believed for a long time that Natalee was put in a cemetery .....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4434.msg646440#msg646440

I think SS just came to her senses, unlike some others
It`s also possible that she is more informed

What does one have to do or ... what does one have to be ... to be be afforded the priviledge of being "informed"?

Could it be that when SS strayed from the John Silvetti/CAPS flock and ... embraced the implications of Kyle Kingsman's own words ... there was immediate damage control and ... she was influenced by the "masters of deception" who are participating in the furthering of  the coverup in the Aruban investigation to return to the fold?

bastibro ... Since jumping back on the John Silvetti/CAPS bandwagons after affording credit to Kyle Kingman's own words ... SS has despicably attacked Kermit ... the messenger.   SS's silence regarding Kyle Kingman's own words implies that this young man has been given a free pass.  What is wrong with this picture?

Prodical Monkeys have a choice ... either Kyle Kingman is the grandfather of all liars and John Silvetti has been despicably defamed OR ... Kyle Kingman was revealing the truth and John Silvetti participated with the enemy in furthering the Aruban coverup.

Which is it?

Janet

+++++


PRODICAL MONKEY

Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #202 on: December 04, 2008, 03:07:37 AM »

... You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS. There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help. I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg565899#msg565899


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

DECEMBER 30, 2007 - VISUAL DIVE

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive.  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.


JANUARY 7, 2008 - RECOVERY DIVE

Kyle Kingman   I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

Kyle Kingman:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.


NATALEE'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435

[Tamikosmom]

GIVE HER BACK!

SS - how bout I expose you?

Kermit

What is the holdup?

 

Janet

BUMPED