Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 - 7/13/09

[2NJSons_Mom]

Update...

Cruise ship with swine flu outbreak heads to Aruba   
     
 By DANIEL WOOLLS, Associated Press Writer Daniel Woolls, Associated Press Writer – 2 mins ago

MADRID – A Spanish cruise ship hit by a small outbreak of swine flu was headed Thursday for the Caribbean island of Aruba, where more than 400 passengers will disembark, the vessel's Spanish owner said.

A Venezuelan state health official, Jorge Alchaer, initially said the passengers and crew would be held in quarantine aboard the Ocean Dream off Venezuela's Isla Margarita, but he confirmed on Thursday that the vessel was headed to Aruba.

The ship was originally carrying 759 passengers and 400 crew members for a planned nine-day tour that began last Friday. But 342 Venezuelan passengers got off in Isla Margarita Wednesday because that was their final destination anyway, said an official with Spanish tour operator Pullmantur, which owns the ship. She spoke on condition of anonymity in line with company rules.

Three crew members have tested positive for swine flu and 11 others have flu symptoms but no passengers have fallen ill, Pullmantur says.

The ship was denied permission to dock in Grenada and Barbados on Wednesday. At that point, the company had not yet received confirmation of the positive cases but warned the authorities in those two countries that some crew members were sick, the company says.

The ship is now scheduled to arrive Thursday in Aruba, where the cruise originally began.

Passengers have apparently complained they are not getting enough information on the swine flu outbreak.

"We are out on the water, with people who do not want to tell us anything. This is not a quarantine, it is a kidnapping," passenger Mario Infantini told the newspaper El Pais.

But the company official said the ship's crew had provided travelers with all information it had as it became available.

Venezuela's state news agency, Agencia Bolivariana de Noticias, said the passengers included 198 Spaniards, 151 Colombians, 11 Argentines, 11 Peruvians, seven U.S. citizens, five from Holland, four from Brazil, Chile and Panama, three from Uruguay, two each from Russia, Romania, France and one from Belgium, Ireland and Italy.

Passengers will receive a partial refund for not having made the planned port calls in Grenada and Barbados, the company official said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap_travel/20090618/ap_tr_ge/eu_travel_brief_spain_swine_flu_cruise_ship_2

[Blue Moon]

O/T

No news from Blue Moon?  I just checked in the prayer thread.

If you stop in, I'm thinking about you Blue Moon!   

Just a quick note--I have been going to Hospital every day after work and now they have moved her to a rehab facility (she is very mad about this) and today I will be going there after work.  Storms are severe and hitting us each late afternoon so it is not wise to plug in and get online with the lightning we are having with these storms.  Hopefully sister will be out in at least 10 days (unless she checks herself out first) and I can settle down some.

Thanks TM for asking.

[Tamikosmom]

O/T

No news from Blue Moon?  I just checked in the prayer thread.

If you stop in, I'm thinking about you Blue Moon!   

Just a quick note--I have been going to Hospital every day after work and now they have moved her to a rehab facility (she is very mad about this) and today I will be going there after work.  Storms are severe and hitting us each late afternoon so it is not wise to plug in and get online with the lightning we are having with these storms.  Hopefully sister will be out in at least 10 days (unless she checks herself out first) and I can settle down some.

Thanks TM for asking.

Blue Moon ... it is very frustrating when you have no control over a situation.  Sometime the tunnel is so dark that it is impossible to see the light at the end.  All the reassuring in the world is for naught.

Your sister is very fortunate to have your unconditional support ... unconditional love ... in her journey back from the depths.

One day at a time.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER

The fabric - The Tarp - The vertebrae - The Skull

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Dateline (Tim Uelinger) had an agreement with Tim Miller to 'do a story to tell about and help promote TES and give TM recognition, and perhaps a 10 minute side-line story on Natalee along with 11 other missing persons. Dateline tagged along with TM for a while pre-NH search. They (TM and Dateline) came on the Persistence between 15-Dec and 30-Dec. I found the trap on 1:45am Christmas morning.  I got the OK to begin our ROV dive series for the 29th, so I made it our first dive. We got visual of the fish trap and that it was suspicious. Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt. I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand and he said he's going to tell the parents. I said definitely not until we sample the trap and get results. He made the call to Dave and Beth independently.

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Kyle Kingman: We all know it wasn't a blouse, but I believe they were sent some piece of fabric other than the fabric found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman: The portion of the discolored blue fabric was presumably on the bottom of the fabric. In my opinion this discoloration is not another type of fabric, but rather biological staining or discoloration from biological growth caused from a high organic carbon content and decay. Basically, during decay a biological mat will form around the organics from remains. This is what I believe it is on the bottom of the fabric.

Kyle Kingman: It was confirmed by the FBI that they received a fabric sample send by Richardson and that it wasn't a match to Natalee's blouse. I think the video can prove or disprove whatever the FBI was sent was the same object or not. I strongly believe it's blue denim.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand. I believe her left arm was outstretched with her legs slightly bent. I did not edit the legs. I believe the tarp was placed over her and tucked around her, or perhaps tied down. I believe there are several rocks laying on the sand which were placed on the tarp, or inside the tarp over her body which explains their unusual location. Either way, the proportions appear promising.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric. If the other bag contains fabric, it was also in the sand. There was also something possibly recovered from far inside the trap. In the video the diver is inside the trap with just below his knees showing. I don't know what was sampled far inside the trap if anything.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion that last pic from Jan 7th should be absolutely intriguing and flip your mind from what you thought you knew. In case it isn't clear.. notice the blue denim-like fabric.

Kyle Kingman: Notice the blue fabric swayed in the current.

Kyle Kingman: The blue tarp piece was found approx 6-10 ft away from the trap opening.

Kyle Kingman:  I am 100% confident other important items are at that site and can be found during processing of the site with a suction system.  The only confirmation of items sampled were blue fabric and the piece of tarp.  This is the only thing Richardson and Mos independantly confirmed.  Remember, they each only confirmed one piece.  One confirmed blue fabric, the other confirmed tarp.  From the video you see both.

Kyle Kingman: The most likely to remain at or near it's original location was the skull, which is why I was so convinced the object pictured was a skull.

Kyle Kingman:  John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand.

Kyle Kingman: I'm sorry if this is disturbing. I took the picture of Natalee standing on the beach and cropped, rotated, and scaled the image to correlate with the trap body form. Notice the end of the skirt is an identical match to the 90 degree angle in the sand.

Kyle Kingman: The bag that is above the denim bag looks to me as though it contains pieces of vertebrae.

Kyle Kingman:  As of the 2nd week of Feb, this is what I had learned from the FBI: The contents of the trap were being actively investigated. The forensic results of a fabric sample showed the fabric sample was not a match to Natalee's blouse and that no DNA match to Natalee was found within that fabric sample. Human remains were found, but the FBI was not and would not comment on the case. The FBI did not comment on the remains, but rather the fabric sample.

Kyle Kingman: In my opinion, the blue fabric is quite possibly Natalee's skirt. The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

[Mere]

O/T

No news from Blue Moon?  I just checked in the prayer thread.

If you stop in, I'm thinking about you Blue Moon!   

Just a quick note--I have been going to Hospital every day after work and now they have moved her to a rehab facility (she is very mad about this) and today I will be going there after work.  Storms are severe and hitting us each late afternoon so it is not wise to plug in and get online with the lightning we are having with these storms.  Hopefully sister will be out in at least 10 days (unless she checks herself out first) and I can settle down some.

Thanks TM for asking.

Do be careful...we were hit about 5 pm and lightening danced inside the room...whole house shook...it fried the laptop connection...and telephone and electricity were out for a while.  I was so lucky.  I am putting this here for Blue Moon and any other monkey who has a computer on during a storm.  Prayers continue for your sister.

[Keepthefaith]

BTW O B S E R V E R is a good man. God loves him just like He loves you and me

Good Night Monkeys

You apparently missed his blue-balls talk to an underage girl.

Any response Bastibro?

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best


Lifesong
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #807 3/12/09 -
« Reply #360 on: March 14, 2009, 06:52:02 PM »

No, Kyle.  No.  You were not FORCED to sit back and hope for the best.  YOU CHOSE to sit back and hope for the best.  There are a number of things YOU could have done.  YOU could have contacted the FBI.  YOU could have contacted Tim Miller.  YOU could have contacted the family.   

INSTEAD you chose, that's right Kyle, YOU CHOSE to participate in the attempted PIMPING of the only evidence not absconded with by the Arubans, the ROV videos.

You, KYLE KINGMAN, need to stop acting like you were one of the good guys.  YOU CHOSE at the time to do exactly what ALE did, and that is WITHHOLD POSSIBLE EVIDENCE.

And if you think talking to the Freebirds redeemed you, you're wrong.  Because when it came time to sh*t or get off the pot - you LIED, MADE THREATS OVER INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY and finally, RAN AWAY.  You CHOSE, Kyle Kingman, to do everything in your power to PROTECT THE PIMPING OF THE ROV VIDEOS.

Shame right on you.

JMO and only MO

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4675.msg720012;topicseen#msg720012

[MuffyBee]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[bastibro]

BTW O B S E R V E R is a good man. God loves him just like He loves you and me

Good Night Monkeys

You apparently missed his blue-balls talk to an underage girl.

Any response Bastibro?

I would have to choose from a thousand responses that are ringing loud in my head right now.

I bet you wouldn`t want me to add any of them I`m sure.

At rumors no shortage KTF 

[Keepthefaith]

BTW O B S E R V E R is a good man. God loves him just like He loves you and me

Good Night Monkeys

You apparently missed his blue-balls talk to an underage girl.

Any response Bastibro?

I would have to choose from a thousand responses that are ringing loud in my head right now.

I bet you wouldn`t want me to add any of them I`m sure.

At rumors no shortage KTF 

Why does your response not suprise me!

[bastibro]

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_58300.php

Google translation:

Ocean Dream tonight Aruba
18 Jun, 2009, 13:47 (GMT -04:00)

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ORANGE CITY - The Ocean Dream cruise ship, which at least three crew members were infected with the Mexican flu is around ten o'clock tonight to Aruba. If the situation worsens, so no more passengers are infected, should everyone ashore, said Health Minister Booshi Wever.

The cruise of the Spanish owner Pullmantur Aruban four passengers on board was last week Friday from Aruba gone. Saturday was the first stop on the island found that five crew members had symptoms of the flu. These were tested, but when the results of three positive cases was again left the boat. The islands of Grenada and Barbados refused then to the ship to moor. Yesterday, the cruise ship called up to the Venezuelan island of Isla de Margarita. The media speculated that the passengers of the Venezuelan authorities ten days in quarantine should continue. They were in that period of board. This was denied this morning by Pullmantur. About 340 Venezuelan passengers this morning the cruise ship leave. The boat was then moved to Aruba.

According to the spokesman of Pullmantur Cruises in Madrid, Juan Jose Sanchez, there is no reason to panic. "The Mexican flu is less serious than ordinary flu and there are more dead people to normal flu." The situation is worse than it actually is, he says. The three crew members who have the virus is it has worked well so far.

Passengers on the
A mother of one of the Aruban passenger says they make. They have no symptoms, according to her. Her son, the 17-year-old Ashton Croes, yesterday's call from the boat. "He said that he had won 90 in the casino."

A rumor circulated yesterday that the passengers on the cruise ship was not properly informed about what exactly would happen and where they are and that they could not moor. Minister Wever with the PAHO Director Mirta Roses has spoken, says a different picture to this: "Passengers are not treated as hostages and are informed when necessary." Pullmantur also denies that the passenger information is remembered. "It's not that we as a crèche address, and to the minute information. But if there is something new to report, then certainly on the passengers informed. "

Revealed in Aruba still the confusion this morning about the arrival of the cruise ship. According to Maduro Travel would arrive this morning. Minister Wever did not initially have the Ocean Dream from all Isla de Margarita was gone.

Weaver says that Aruba is well prepared for a possible outbreak. "We are even prepared for a worse situation than it is with the ship. Suppose that it appears that more infected people or people on board were seriously ill, then we have our Air Ambulance all ready for people abroad to be treated. "According to the minister is not enough space in the intensive care to a serious outbreak.

The final decision on the mooring of the Ocean Dream, after consultation between him and Prime Minister Nelson Oduber and Minister of Tourism and Transport Edison snort taken Wever says finally.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_58299.php

Google translation:

Aruba

RED: 'Invest in Valero'

18 Jun, 2009, 13:43 (GMT -04:00)


ORANGE CITY - Political Party RED wants the government to invest in Valero. The 180 million florin tax on turnover (BBO), which - pending arbitration case - to an account established, would Rudy Lampe party should be used to modernize the refinery.

This is one of the proposals that he has a team of experts would give. The team would be on behalf of the Government should negotiate with the oil. This to ensure that the refinery in San Nicolas not definitively close its doors. Lampe party wants to negotiate with Valero on Valero 180 million florin that possible BBO to pay. This amount would be RED can be used for a so-called Hydro Cracker buying. This may include kerosene, diesel and LPG are produced. The investment group may be used to become a shareholder of the refinery on the island. "This is the time when the price is low. Soon as the price rose, the shares are sold at a profit. As with the Plant Hotel. "RED also wish that the government abolish export BBO. The annual amount of 40 million florin that Valero wants to contribute should be accepted and invested in the development of San Nicolas, said party Lampe.

Waiting
Meanwhile makes Willem Vrolijk political party MPA is very concerned about the lack of plans "in case the refinery no longer opens. He wonders what the government does not like Valero opens? "In a letter to the media he firm to the government and criticism of 'lax policies.

As an example retrieves the politician airline KLM to. "The government has waited until they no longer flew before they were talking," said Merry. Also on the absence of government measures against global recession, the MPA is not a good word about it. "They have the same wait and see attitude. There is no plan for the recession that the door to fight. "

Valero refinery Although her departure has not yet announced, according to Vrolijk but signals that the company leaves. "The people want to know what the government will do with the 700 employees of Valero, whose job is uncertain. What will happen to the 1,500 workers through contractors working for Valero? What will happen to all those people who directly or indirectly dependent Valero? What is the plan of the government? "The people of San Nicolas are concerned, says Merry. "It is still fresh in the memory of San Nicolas was a ghost town in 1985 decided to close oil Lago. We do not want a repetition. "

MPA also wants the government as soon as possible at the table sits down with Valero to a solution. Moreover, the party hopes that the Government is prepared, if the oil company still decided to stay close.

[bastibro]

And Justice For All . .

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_58296.php

Cars and buurtsuper in fire

18 Jun, 2009, 13:23 (GMT -04:00)

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ORANGE CITY - Unknown have last night in two places brand founded in the district Madiki. Both incidents took about four hours at night instead. The fire was first to extinguish the supermarket Kin Wah, the gas cylinders in fire were stabbed outside. The fast action was to prevent the fire to nearby buildings could skip, including that of the adjacent restaurant United Dinner. The injury was thus limited to the outside of the buurtsuper. Shortly later, the fire a few streets away to Lucanitastraat, where two cars were on fire. The fire department suspects that the fire is lit.

[klaasend]

Last nights Dana Pretzer segment with Tim Miller - the part where Tim talks about Natalee and going back to search in Aruba:

Click on the picture below, the audio/video is in photobucket:

[Artcolley]

Last nights Dana Pretzer segment with Tim Miller - the part where Tim talks about Natalee and going back to search in Aruba:

Click on the picture below, the audio/video is in photobucket:

Thank You, Klaas.

[texasmom]

Last nights Dana Pretzer segment with Tim Miller - the part where Tim talks about Natalee and going back to search in Aruba:

Click on the picture below, the audio/video is in photobucket:

Thanks Klaas!   

This is not perfect but I tried to do a transcript of what Tim Miller said:

Tim Miller on Dana Pretzer 6/17/09 About the Holloway Case

You know what we’re having a big fundraiser in July and Beth is actually coming to our fundraiser.  You know we’ve done so very very much work in Aruba.  And I was actually with John Silvetti that did the water search over there and Louis Schaefer who actually funded that thing last time I was with them just a couple of weeks ago and the Natalee Holloway case is one of them that we still have 140+ targets over there that we located with the sonar equipment, it’s one of those things that we do want to get over there and investigate every one of them with the ROV send it down some of that stuffs in 1100 feet of water.  And again it’s going to be an extremely expensive search upwards of a million and a half dollars and again there’s one irresponsible reporter out of Birmingham Alabama that reported that we already had that one and a half million dollars secured.  And it’s one of the things that just killed our donations..I mean just killed em.  We got emails and phone calls of people that had donated to us said how in the world can you spend one and a half million dollars on the Natalee Holloway case when we have all these missing persons cases over here.  Again it’s was not like that.  We don’t have ten cents secured for the Natalee Holloway case to go back to Aruba yet, it’s one of the things that Louis Schaefer is working on.  I know for a fact we will be back there someday.  I don’t think Fred Golba helped our relationship out over there in Aruba when he took his dog over there.  But I think we can mend all that stuff and move forward but I am certainly looking forward to the day when we get back over to Aruba continue that search and investigate every one of them objects that we’ve got out there in the sea.  See if we can pull off that miracle and get Natalee located.  Natalee is of course not priority right now and it’s because of funding and because of other cases we’ve got.  But I’m not going to say that she’s totally on the back burner neither. So you know it’s going to take another one of them miracles for Louis Schaefer to go ahead and generate the money and I know if anybody can do it it will be Louis Schaefer.  And when God blesses us with that then we’ll go over there and put every effort into seeing if by chance one of them objects is Natalee and we feel as though one of them are, we’ve just got to get the right one.

[texasmom]

Thanks Dana for asking!   

[wreck]

Thanks Dana for asking!   

Thanks for asking -- but I am not amused by the answer.