Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 - 7/13/09

[SuzieQ]

I total agree that as a discussion board, all questions/inquiries that lead to Justice for Natalee should be feverishly pursued. Having said that, what is the end game going down a path that may (at the most) reveal that Dave and/or Tim Miller have afforded entities/persons additional cover to prevent Justice for Natalee? Was it faith in human nature believing that people will always do the right thing make them pawns in the hands of the evil aruban agenda? If so, have they resigned themselves to that fate and are now passively accepted things that portray them as willing accomplishes by accepting the foils of their acts (Tim continuing to work with silvetti/loius s.-which - by the way - results in addition funds/equipment support to TES for other missing person searches while Dave lends credence so he may gain additional search efforts for Natalee (100 + targets) identified yet unexplored?
OK...for the sake of argument...lets say Dave and Tim  were either reluctant or even main participants that afforded aruba with additional help in covering up what happened to Natalee (whether willingly or not).
Lets say Dave and Tim willingly became participants furthering the cover up (I don't believe this!).
What would be their end game?
I don't believe for a second that either Dave or Tim would do anything that would distract from obtaining Justice for Natalee......
I do believe there is a conspiracy involving those who orchestrated the persistence search (specifically silvetti, louis s, now kyle kingman and tim trahan, backed by ata/ahata, aruba pm, om, jpk2....julia,mark p)...
So please, anyone, tell me what there is to gain in obtaining Justice for Natalee by dragging down Dave/Tim? I only see dragging down Dave/Tim, and that won't bring Justice for Natalee!
Justice for Natalee will be successful if the persistence/silvetti/louis s/kingman/trahan/julia/purcell/pm/om/aruba divers trap recovery/ roles are revealed.
Keep on the critical path to find Justice for Natalee........don't get worked up on a side track just because time passes and there is no observable progress...

Thank you billb, you have put into words what I have been thinking.  Robin is another story, but I will not throw Tim Miller or Dave Holloway under the bus. They may be too trusting, but never would they do anything knownly, to harm the search for answers as to what happened to Natalee.

[Keepthefaith]

Me personnally,i'm not done asking questions!If asking questions is throwing people under the bus,throw me the keys.In terms of staying on the critical path.Never knew i was off the path!

[Tamikosmom]

Me personnally,i'm not done asking questions!If asking questions is throwing people under the bus,throw me the keys.In terms of staying on the critical path.Never knew i was off the path!

My sentiments exactly!!

Thanks Keepthefaith.

Have a good day Monkeys.

Later, Janet
10:40 AM PT

[Keepthefaith]

Me personnally,i'm not done asking questions!If asking questions is throwing people under the bus,throw me the keys.In terms of staying on the critical path.Never knew i was off the path!

My sentiments exactly!!

Thanks Keepthefaith.

Have a good day Monkeys.

Later, Janet
10:40 AM PT

Have a great day Janet!

[Tamikosmom]

I am back home for a few minutes and ... then out again.

 

I just received an email reminding me a Tim Miller and John Silvetti/Louis Schaeffer venture involving Kurtis Productions took place following the unchallenged recovery of the contents of the the cage ... following the Dateline departure from the Persistence.

Could it be that the foundation phase of this undertaking ... which focused around Tim Miller and TES ...  took place when Bill Kurtis was on the Island in January, 2008?

Janet

++++++


THE DOCUMENTARY

SEPTEMBER, 2008 - UNITED STATES

Big Spender
 
Upcoming Airings:
Thursday, September 18 @ 11pm/10C
Friday, September 19 @ 3am/2C
Sunday, September 21 @ 4pm/3C

Bill Kurtis hosts this documentary special that looks at the case that shocked the nation–the disappearance of 18-year-old Natalee Holloway on the island of Aruba on May 30, 2005. Natalee was last seen alive leaving a bar with three young local men, who became the prime suspects. Natalee’s mother, Beth, is convinced that the men know what happened to her daughter, but authorities have been unable to come up with definitive proof that they are responsible for her death. Kurtis examines the key questions in the case: Will Natalee’s body ever be found? Why can’t authorities solve the case? And where did the investigation go wrong?

http://www.aetv.com/listings/episode_details.do?episodeid=360922&airingid=360996


JANUARY, 2009 - NEW ZEALAND

What Happened To Natalee Holloway
CRIME & INVESTIGATION – Sunday 11 January, 9.30pm

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them, a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway

http://www.throng.co.nz/documentary/what-happened-natalee-holloway


MARCH, 2009 - ASIA

What Happened to Natalee Holloway?
Thursday 12 March 8:00AM HK/SIN/MAL 7:00AM Thai/WIB
Thursday 12 March 2:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 1:00PM Thai/WIB
Saturday 14 March 1:00PM HK/SIN/MAL 12:00PM Thai/WIB

In December of 2007, eight men from across the United States will set out on an extraordinary mission. On a specially equipped, multi-million dollar ship, they will travel to the deep waters off the island of Aruba. They are searching not for sunken treasure, but something far more valuable to them – a missing 18 year-old named Natalee Holloway.

The leader of the effort is Tim Miller, founder of Texas EquuSearch and the father of a 16 year- old girl who was kidnapped and murdered in 1984. Miller has now taken on the recovery of Natalee Holloway as a personal calling. Miller and Natalee Holloway’s father Dave Holloway, believe that Natalee was likely placed in a crab trap or a steel drum and dumped 3-5 miles offshore, which is where they will focus the search.

Miller has assembled a team of underwater engineering experts from Underwater Expeditions and will bring an arsenal of resources, including hi-tech sonar scanning equipment, underwater video and the help of the FBI and Dutch authorities. The team has but one goal: to bring Natalee home.

Kurtis Productions has been granted exclusive access to what will be the most extensive deep water search to date for Holloway’s body. In this documentary special, Bill Kurtis will join the search and document the recovery mission. He will also revisit Natalee Holloway’s disappearance and subsequent investigation to try and answer the questions on everyone’s mind – where is Natalee? And will her case ever be solved?

http://www.citvasia.com/detailssynopsis.aspx?libId=336&sId=168&sTime=1200


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Louis is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search.  I learned this from Tim T. yesterday. I do not know how far along this documentary is. I have not had any part in it. In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis. Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle Kingman - 02/12/08: We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives. Things have only just begun to get interesting. We'll likely require a film crew on board for most of the remaining work, so once aired you'll have a lot more information

Kyle Kingman - 03/20/08: Since I got the go ahead from Tim (T), we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

Kyle Kingman - 06/10/08: Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

[Keepthefaith]

So,after the cage discovery/recovery did the people on the Persistence stay down there to make a documentary??

[Tamikosmom]

Monkeys

I am a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words that exposed John Silvetti's participation with the Arubans in the finale to the coverup agenda that has prevented justice for Natalee Holloway from prevailing since the morning of May 30, 2005.

When I scan the OIL & GAS PIPELINE INFO Thread ... it is obvious that Monkeys believe that the John Silvetti betrayal must be researched and exposed in the the name of justice of Natalee Holloway.  Although I feel completely out of the loop in this effort ... I support it 100% nevertheless.

On the other hand ... I am a believer that those who are personally aware of the John Silvetti betrayal ... but choose to remain silent while continuing a professional relationship with Silvetti ... with those who embrace an Aruban agenda ... are also participants in the Aruban coverup.

Justice for Natalee Holloway will always be my focus and ... those who deter this objective will not be given a free pass no matter who they are.

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

So,after the cage discovery/recovery did the people on the Persistence stay down there to make a documentary??

Keepthefaith

I apologize.  ONly one of the quotes I provided in my previous post was applicable.

Considering Bill Kurtis was on the Island at the end of January, 2008 ... I suspect the Persistence left Aruba following the production of the documentary.

I believe that targets were being investigated in the period following the recovery of the contents of the trap on January 7, 2008.

Jen may be able to expand on this topic.

Janet

+++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 02/12/08: We are all holding up well. I just flew back to New Jersey for a much needed break. I've been on the Persistence in Aruba since the 15th of December and will be back on board in about a week amid ROV dives. Things have only just begun to get interesting. We'll likely require a film crew on board for most of the remaining work, so once aired you'll have a lot more information


The Search for Natalee Holloway
XVIII. Sonar Search Complete
 Update: Mon 03-March 1345 hrs

With the sonar search completed, the RV Persistence sets sail heading to its home port in Louisiana. With mixed emotions, the search team returns home. When we arrived in Aruba in mid-December we were mentally prepared to return home either having found Natalee, or after having exhausted all possibilities in the quest to find her. It is difficult going home with many questions left unanswered and so many sonar targets remaining to be explored. Our comfort lies in knowledge that we have done the best job we could, that we can return to dive on the remaining targets when funded, and that answers may come in time. We feel that the search is not over but rather entering a new phase. We are thankful for the outpouring of generosity, love, support, and prayers throughout the entire search effort.

Posted by Kyle Kingman
http://nholloway.blogspot.com/2008/02/xviii-sonar-search-complete.html

[2NJSons_Mom]

Why did Silvetti feel he had to mention hate sites & defend his purpose in the search?   This has always bothered me.   I think it was in the first video:

http://www.silvettigroup.com/Media.html

[Tamikosmom]

Monkeys

I am a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words that exposed John Silvetti's participation with the Arubans in the finale to the coverup agenda that has prevented justice for Natalee Holloway from prevailing since the morning of May 30, 2005.

When I scan the OIL & GAS PIPELINE INFO Thread ... it is obvious that Monkeys believe that the John Silvetti betrayal must be researched and exposed in the the name of justice of Natalee Holloway.  Although I feel completely out of the loop in this effort ... I support it 100% nevertheless.

On the other hand ... I am a believer that those who are personally aware of the John Silvetti betrayal ... but choose to remain silent while continuing a professional relationship with Silvetti ... with those who embrace an Aruban agenda ... are also participants in the Aruban coverup.

Justice for Natalee Holloway will always be my focus and ... those who deter this objective will not be given a free pass no matter who they are.

Janet

Monkeys are all one in the contention that Kyle Kingman should not be given a free pass for not being forthcoming to Beth Holloway or the FBI regarding his genuine concerns encompassing the the trap.

Janet

++++++++


KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman - 06/13/08:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. i would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

[Tamikosmom]

Gotta go!

Friend just drove up the driveway.  I am shopping for a dress to wear to a family wedding on July 11th.  I trust her judgement.  I do believe I will take her out for dinner later.

Janet
2:10 PM PT

[Keepthefaith]

Have a great day Janet..

[texasmom]

Why did Silvetti feel he had to mention hate sites & defend his purpose in the search?   This has always bothered me.   I think it was in the first video:

http://www.silvettigroup.com/Media.html

Silvetti's comment about that starts at :58

<a href="http://i21.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/EENVANDAAG_1Persistence_0001.flv" target="_blank">http://i21.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/EENVANDAAG_1Persistence_0001.flv</a>

[Keepthefaith]

Why did Silvetti feel he had to mention hate sites & defend his purpose in the search?   This has always bothered me.   I think it was in the first video:

http://www.silvettigroup.com/Media.html

Silvetti's comment about that starts at :58

<a href="http://i21.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/EENVANDAAG_1Persistence_0001.flv" target="_blank">http://i21.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/EENVANDAAG_1Persistence_0001.flv</a>

Did Silvetti bring it up himself or was there a question posed to him?Couldn't hear..Maybe edited?

[Blue Moon]

Good evening all. 

I posted a picture of the tornado forming above my house in Musings.  I also posted an update on my sister's surgery.

I need to do some catching up so talk to yall later.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_57998.php

Google translation:

[texasmom]

Why did Silvetti feel he had to mention hate sites & defend his purpose in the search?   This has always bothered me.   I think it was in the first video:

http://www.silvettigroup.com/Media.html

Silvetti's comment about that starts at :58

<a href="http://i21.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/EENVANDAAG_1Persistence_0001.flv" target="_blank">http://i21.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid21.photobucket.com/albums/b258/texasmom55/Persistence/EENVANDAAG_1Persistence_0001.flv</a>

Did Silvetti bring it up himself or was there a question posed to him?Couldn't hear..Maybe edited?

I think oil was mentioned in the statement by the reporter just prior to Silvetti's comment.  I really would like a transcript of that show!

[texasmom]

Good evening all. 

I posted a picture of the tornado forming above my house in Musings.  I also posted an update on my sister's surgery.

I need to do some catching up so talk to yall later.

Thanks Blue Moon! 

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_58005.php

Google translation:

'Closing Valero political game'

12 Jun, 2009, 15:21 (GMT -04:00)

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Valero refinery in San Nicolas close because of expected losses for three months already its doors.

SAN NICOLAS - Oil refinery Valero stops due to high oil prices and the global recession for three months to produce. Prime Minister Nelson Oduber (MEP) called the temporary closure 'suspicious'. He suspects that there is a political game. Workers have been worried at the news that came yesterday afternoon, although union Iouwa it was somewhat likely that it no longer could.

Premier Oduber said this morning that the suspect is that the refinery shortly before the election decision to temporarily close. He gives to know that the opposition (ASF) with Valero speaks. "In a democratic country can not with the government and the opposition 'dealing'. You mix in your internal affairs. "
Oduber expects the refinery to reopen as soon as the weather money. "They (Valero, ed) to know exactly how it is. They know how much to invest, they know that December 31, 2010 the tax holiday expires. Let us sit together and talk about it. Something acceptable and realistic. They want a lot of money for the refinery, which continues the discussion. I doubt that the refinery closes. Everybody wants money. If the refinery money he will keep running. The refinery is in a reasonable state, has a good port, but is not entirely of our time. "According to experts, there is 2.5 billion dollars necessary to him for a period of ten years to keep running, says the Prime Minister.

On the other hand Oduber says that there can be no guarantee that the refinery finally closes its doors. "We will also contact the top of Petro China and we're going to ask to buy or not?

The government wants as soon as possible call with Valero to clarify. "We can not have two, three months of uncertainty remain."

In an email to all employees late Valero-boss Bill Klees know that the Texas company expects losses in the second quarter. The sharp increase in oil prices, the margins become so small that it is not worthwhile to continue to produce. There is still sufficient supply of the products Valero Aruba produces, making the company its prices can not throw up. It now hopes to create a scarcity which may have a number of months it profitable to operate. In Klees hold a Battle of the arm or the refinery in San Nicolas actually three months from opening. It is after this first period and then reviewed again decided whether Valero Aruba back in production.

The conclusion is now used to carry out maintenance at the refinery. None of the more than 700 permanent workers are fired. Guarantees for the longer term, however, not given, as also industrial Iouwa know. The association has the news yesterday of the Executive Board hearing. Today consult the union with its members to take. Trade Union Leader Boy Anthony says that given the current economic situation is not 'can be affected. "Workers are worried, but it was to be expected. The first months of the year were very bad and also the last half year of 2008 was not good. The production was already at 133,000 barrels, while normal is 225,000. "

He is also no news on negotiations between Valero and the Government on the future of the refinery. Whether the company already has found a buyer is not known says Anthony.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_58004.php

Google translation:

"Valero close by BBO and government

12 Jun, 2009, 15:18 (GMT -04:00)

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ORANGE CITY - AVP-leader Mike Eman blames the conclusion of the sales tax Valero BBO and the unprofessional attitude of Prime Minister Nelson Oduber. According to Eman Bill Klees several occasions have complained about the tax policy on the island, that from one day to the other would change.

Valero would be after false promises by the government on fiscal policy are persuaded to take over the refinery. Eman says Klees by themselves have been told the current fiscal circumstances, the reason for the temporary closure. The party says in the possession of a letter from Klees stating that under the current policy BBO see no way for the refinery to continue operating. Valero would the Government have offered to pay profit tax instead of BBO.

According to the PDR party underlines the fact that the Government through the press to know that Valero had to temporarily close its doors, the poor relationship between the government and the oil companies. "It even gives the impression that there is more behind the closure is only the global demand for oil." The party says at the table to sit down with employees, subcontractors and other interested parties to better insight into the reasons for the closure .

Stretch
"I wonder how Valero in a short time is fully operational after a shutdown," said Chamber of Commerce President Edwin Roos. "When Lago once ceased its operations, it took a whole year before it was operational again." Roos is unlikely that the refinery to the conclusion it will resume operations again. "The refinery on Aruba processed oil into diesel and jetfuel. The diesel they produce is not suitable for the U.S. market because it has a high sulfur content. These experts would be a renovation of the refinery to all the current measures to bring some two billion dollar cost. This has inter alia the sale hitherto hindered. The asking themselves between half and two billion. "Rose points to a mention by Valero's arguments for the temporary closing stretch. "Valero has always bought its oil on the spot market, hence the consistently the best price. This means that the risk and hence the margins have remained virtually flat. "Rose finally points to an interview that Bill Klees earlier this year, which he indicated that where Valero refineries off will and will not be sold, most likely permanently close.

"When we heard yesterday that Valero three months closing, we were scared," said Mayra Oduber, Director of Finance lasbedrijf Oduber Contractor. "We assume that a closure of three months." Oduber According to the company can handle this. "We are independent of Valero projects with other major companies such as WEB, Aruba Ports Authority, Wickland Oil Company and have enough work for the next time." Forty percent of the projects of Oduber Contractor with Valero, but the projects are Valero are continuing. "Could not open Valero than facing the company with injury and then we go for plan B", said Oduber.

Stephen Daal, chairman of ATIA employers would no comment on the closure of Valero. "I have received news only today and I am not in the wild way to say something about this."