Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 - 7/13/09

[San]

So..... what do you think scared the intruder the worst?   The threat of Jesus, your aunt , or the crazy neighbor????? 

The crazy neighbor 

[San]

Have a good night everyone.

[texasmom]

In Texas, the "Castle Law" is in effect. If someone is "breaking and entering" you can blow them away with no "questions asked". Our cime rate is down considerably! 

That's the way it should be!There is absolutely NO reason to be on another person's property..........

Exactly!  Texas got that right!   

Now,only if Washington could follow that lead!Our state is azz backwards.There is a gray area in our state.You can't shoot someone unless they are posing great bodily harm.If they come into your living room and are stealing stuff you theoretically just can't go out there and shoot them...They've got to be posing a threat..I've seen people go to trial because they shot a burglar in the back??? Go figure...

When I was at home and my dad would have to go out of town for a few days, he would tell me if anybody was prowling around the house go ahead and shoot em and drag em inside and swear they were trying to attack me!

 

My aunt said some guy was ringing her door bell.  She didn't answer the door and he kept ringing it.  She got so nervous she called her neighbor.  She said there is a strange man at my front door.  The neighbor looks out her door and says he is not at your front door he is at your side door.  My aunt told her call the cops for me she said all of a sudden she heard her neighbor outside her gate telling the guy Jesus will get you  .  My aunt goes here is a guy high as a kite and she is screaming Jesus will get you.  She goes to her neighbor get back in the house  .  Long story short after my aunt came out of the house and there was a stare down the guy left.

Moral to the story shoot first ask questions later 

Those are words I live by!   

[texasmom]

Have a good night everyone.

You too San!   

[texasmom]

[Keepthefaith]

  Now that's a funny story after knowing everyone is safe!

[Keepthefaith]

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

GOODNIGHT & GOD BLESS

KEEPTHEFAITH

 

[texasmom]

JUSTICE FOR NATALEE HOLLOWAY

GOODNIGHT & GOD BLESS

KEEPTHEFAITH

 

Good night Keepthefaith!   

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[billb's daughter]

I was wrong...Kobe in 5...not 6...

[billb's daughter]

I was wrong...Kobe in 5...not 6...

If only aruba/NL showed the same determination as Kobe did to win his 4th...
Justice for Natalee would have been a done deal...

[billb's daughter]

Good night good Monkeys....
We are one day closer to Justice for Natalee!!

[texasmom]

Good night good Monkeys....
We are one day closer to Justice for Natalee!!

Good night billb!  Sorry I missed ya!   

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[jen3560]

Too bad I didn't have the opportunity to tell Mr. Harms what I think about Aruba.   

 

Well I noticed that he blamed Beth, Greta, Dr Phil, etc for the negative perception of Aruba.

What I failed to notice in his article was the placing of the blame directly where it belongs - with Joran van der Sloot, Paulus van der Sloot, and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.

Surely that man knows it was THOSE FOUR MEN who have caused and created this whole mess and put Aruba in a bad light? 

[Tamikosmom]

Too bad I didn't have the opportunity to tell Mr. Harms what I think about Aruba.   

 

Well I noticed that he blamed Beth, Greta, Dr Phil, etc for the negative perception of Aruba.

What I failed to notice in his article was the placing of the blame directly where it belongs - with Joran van der Sloot, Paulus van der Sloot, and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.

Surely that man knows it was THOSE FOUR MEN who have caused and created this whole mess and put Aruba in a bad light? 

... and those involved in the coverup ... the ALE, the prosecution, the judiciary, the "powers that be" in both the Dutch/Aruban administrations.

Janet

++++


BETH HOLLOWAY ... IN HER OWN WORDS

The Jonesboro Sun - January 29, 2007

Twitty recalled the first days after her daughter's disappearance and the actions of the Aruban government.

"We did everything we could in looking for her.  There was a government coverup, and it has been documented," Twitty contended.

http://www.jonesborosun.com/story.php?ID=25809


'Scarborough Country' - October 23, 2005

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: They never—they never wanted to implicate these three young men.

They never wanted to implicate them from the beginning. And there is a list of reasons, you know, why we know that is true.

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9796403/from/RL.2/


'Rita Cosby Live&Direct' - December 2, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER: Well, of course, it's very frustrating. You know, the entire investigation, that's all we've had is frustration coming out of the officials from Aruba.  You know, evidence—you know when evidence is gathered and lost or evidence is never gathered when it's supposed to be, just (INAUDIBLE) the primary residence of Paulus Van Der Sloot was never searched —I mean, you know, it just can't help but raise all the questions of—and leave us frustrated.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10295536/


'Rita Cosby Live & Direct' - December 6, 2005

TWITTY: ... Remember, within the first 24 hours, we knew who the suspects were. We knew the persons that Natalee were taken from Carlos and Charlie‘s. We knew the license plate of the gray Honda they placed her in. We knew the condition that Natalee was in. We knew the behavior or the conduct in which they engaged in with Natalee.

And then not only that, Jane, within 72 hours, we knew that their first story was totally fabricated, that within the first 72 hours, I faced a room of 12 -- at least 12 detectives, Aruban and Dutch detectives, and a lead detective, Dennis Jacobs (ph), and they knew after we reviewed video footage from the Holiday Inn casino lobby that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. They knew that those suspects were fabricating a story from day one.

TWITTY: Well, Jane, something that the family knew—and we have to keep reminding everyone—after 72 hours -- 72 hours—we knew definitively that these suspects were not telling the truth. We knew that my daughter had never been brought back to the Holiday Inn. Of course we were becoming frustrated. Who wouldn‘t, at this point? You know, we—and what was so unbelievable about this, is they knew this information and still chose to pursue the two security guards on June the 5th.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10348437/


Beth Holloway
LOVING NATALEE - Beth Holloway

Page 194: It's quiet in the room when i add, 'Oh, come on. Everyone knows there was a cover-up.' And to this, Jorge Pesquera, president and CEO of the Aruba Hotel and Tourism Association, shrugs his shoulders, nods in the affirmative, and says softly, 'Yes...yes there was'."

[Tamikosmom]

Inquiring minds want to know:

1.  Why was Tim Trahn unable to determine if there was anything Natalee Holloway case related in the visual dive of December 30, 2008.  The conclusion of the Aruban divers was a certainty?

2.  Why did Tim Trahan leave the Dateline viewers with the deceptive impression that the visual dive revealed nothing Natalee Holloway case related rather stating that underlying factors dictated that he was unable to determine conclusively the contents of the trap?

3.  When the ROV footage was consider ... why did Time Trahan not make a second dive?

4.  What exactly was discussed at the meeting with Hans Mos and Adolph Richarding prior to the visual dive?

5.  Why was Tim Trahan not a participant in the January 7, 2008 recovery dive?

6.  Considering Tim Trahan claims he could not "conclusively" determine anything case related in the December 30, 2007 visual dive and ... did not participate with the Aruban dive team on January 7, 2008 ... why did he play a role in the happenings throughout 2008 in regards to the ROV footage?

7.  What redeeming role did Tim Trahan play as the American diver on board the Persistence in the search for Natalee Holloway's remains?

Janet

+++++++


TIM TRAHAN - THE VISUAL DIVE - DECEMBER 30, 2007

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Richardson was onboard the Persistence several times and attended the meetings on the boat.

Kyle Kingman:  On the morning of the 30th we met on board the Persistence with Hans Mos, Richardson, and the rest of the police brass and dive division. I showed them all the 29th dive video and they agreed that it was very suspicion and looked promising.

Kyle Kingman:  Later that day 30-Dec we conducted the dive with the Aruban divers along with our own Tim Trahan. We discussed ahead of time 1 thumb up means positively human remains, 2 thumbs up... something conclusively identifying Natalee.  When Tim T. gives one thumb down, he said that it was inconclusive. He couldn't tell by his own admission.

Kyle Kingman:  To clarify the thumb down issue: It was agreed immediately before the 30-Dec dive that 2 thumbs up (by Tim Trahan) meant positive ID on Natalee from something conclusive. One thumb up was to indicate human remains.  There was no set signal pre-dive for anything but the above scenarios.

Kyle Kingman:  By Tim's own admission, his observation of the inside of the trap (lasting a few seconds) was inconclusive.  What you can't see is immediately before Tim approached the trap opening, a large skate stirred up sediment reducing visibility. The quick signal came because the dive time was nearly up.

Kyle Kingman:  Aruban divers deemed the cage to be not case related, and therefore Aruba had no interest in it.

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection.


TIM TRAHAN - THE RECOVERY DIVE - JANUARY 7, 2008

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman: The Persistence had no divers on the 7th. Tim Trahan was our diver on the 30th-Dec, but he was out of the country at the time. The Aruban divers were on the police boat, dove from their boat, and returned to their boat.

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.


TIM TRAHAN - ROV FOOTAGE INVOLVEMENT - 2008

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  No one has possession of any footage except Tim Trahan, an archived copy on the Persistence, and myself."

Kyle Kingman:  Louis [Schaefer] is currently working with someone who I do not know to put together some documentary on the case, the way it was handled, and what happened during the search. I learned this from Tim T. yesterday.  I do not know how far along this documentary is.  I have not had any part in it.  In fact, I heard this documentary has distanced most everyone from Louis.  Louis was sold on the idea that it will make him a lot of money.

Kyle Kingman: She [BETH] needs to know exactly what we found in the proper timing. The way to do that would be through Tim Trahan and I. I can arrange any meeting with him. He represents the owner and the rights to the data, in this case, Louis S. I have everything but I don't want to go around him for chain of custody reasons, professional courtesy, and friendship.

Kyle Kingman:   Since I got the go ahead from Tim (T), we can legally move forward. The document should follow-up the screen shots and trap content description. We can sent the document after the initial dialog. I trust then she (Beth) will be interested in the document.

The contents of the document should be discussed and agreed upon by the birds. Since I'm new here, I should take a back seat to this IMO. I would think it would be a case synthesis which culminates with the trap contents and lack of interest and motivation to fully process the site. Perhaps Beth will then use the document to create the proper motivation using the information to apply political pressure from both sides. The problem I ran into earlier with the FBI was that their hands are tied to do anything unless they're invited to the party. I think political pressure properly applied will ensure an invite to the party. Thoughts?

Title - perhaps "Case Synthesis and Search Results", or something to that effect.

Kyle Kingman:   Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere.  We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kyle Kingman: I will soon propose a meeting with Beth and other family members, myself, Tim Trahan, Peter DeVries, and whomever else necessary to go over the ROV video, contents, and case status. I would like a couple people very familiar with the case documents also present to help connect dots during the meeting. I would prefer meeting towards the end of April or mid-May to allow adequate time for things to shake themselves out if is going to. If necessary, I have an ABC (20/20) and CBS (early show) film crew ready and willing to take part in such a meeting should it require press coverage. I've already had a meeting with ABC about this and they are "definitely interested" at the executive level. We met in mid-Feb about this already. The question becomes timing, who needs to be there, and whether or not it's covered by the press. I prefer not, but it may be useful. DeVries doesn't need to be there in my opinion but he's good for ratings and helps ABC be cooperative if needed.

Kyle Kingman:  Differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

[Tamikosmom]

SPY ON BOARD?

When it is considered that Eduardo Mansur ... who never dived on the Trap ... and Jossy Mansur are one in the Aruban divers' and John Silvetti's contentions that there was nothing case related in the trap/cage  ... could there have been a negotiated agreement with the Aruban “powers that be” ... a negotiated agreement which would imply a betrayal of trust in regards to Natalee Holloway and her family to further the coverup agenda?
 
What was the actual purpose of Eduardo Mansur's constant presence on board the Persistence?  Could the “powers that be” have taken advantage of the trusted relationship that existed between Jossy Mansur and the family of Natalee Holloway?   Could the “powers that be” had assumed that Eduard Mansur presence on board the Persistence would not be questioned  or undermine?

One member of the crew, who held a professional position on board the Persistence, had his suspicions.


EDUARDO MANSUR

KYLE KINGMAN - ACCORDING TO HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.

Kyle Kingman:  I would really like to know how that got out on the [JAN] 23rd. I know for a fact the following cast of characters knew about the trap and sampling. This is not a complete list, just who I know who knew:  Dateline NBC, Tim Miller, Dave and Robin H., Beth, Persistence crew, Aruban police dive division, Tim Trahan, Louis Schafer (sp), Mos, Richardson, Eduardo Mansur.

Kyle Kingman:  We're close to finding the Dirty Hand and a major leak plaguing the investigation. I believe they're linked. I'm assuming Caps isn't deep inside ALE, but do we know that he isn't? We need to figure out who Cap's source is and what he does. Can we confirm Destiny's source is a Dairio reporter? If so, do we know who this would be? Could it be Eduardo Mansur???

Kyle Kingman:  For Jan 7th, Eduardo wasn't on the boat, neither were any media, Tim Miller, or Tim Trahan.


JOSSY MANSUR

JOSSY MANSUR:  No, my son was not on the dive team, but he was on board the ship every day. What he told me is that the cage is of an industrial type and not similar to the one that went missing the same morning Natalee disappeared. The ship did map a vast area and was able to pinpoint close to 100 items of interest on the bottom of the ocean along the coast. Just when they were about to examine them, they ran out of money because it is an expensive venture.

[Tamikosmom]

Good Morning Monkeys

Behinds the scenes ... I am in the process of compiling with assistance a rather large document that questions the actions of the following persons who each has a connection to the Persistence endeavor ... who I sincerely believe ... intentionally or unintentionally ... played a role in the furthering the Aruban coverup agenda.

1.  John Silvetti
2.  Louis Schaefer
3.  Tim Trahan
4.  Kyle Kingman
5.  Tim Miller
6.  Dave Holloway
7.  Eduardo Mansur

Considering the lack of like-minded responses from Monkeys on THIS forum to my backup posts ... I have come to the conclusion that I am ... for the most part ... in the minority in regards to this topic being "fully" explored but ... I am compelled to following my heart.

It is my prayer that that one of the above listed persons will be the catalyst who will bring closure to the mother of Natalee Holloway by revealing the truth.

I will share when the document is completed.

Janet
10:55 AM PT

++++++++




Credit: Klaas

[Tamikosmom]

A REMINDER

Beth Holloway deserves to bring her precious daughter home ... home to her country ... home to her family.  ANYBODY who ... intentionally or unintentially ... has participated ... is participating ... with the enemy ... the enemy who has prevented justice from prevailing since May 30, 2005 ... must be held accountable ... must take responsibility.

Janet

++++++

'Scarborough Country' - July. 15, 2005

JUG TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S STEPFATHER: Beth and I have been through this emotional roller coaster. And all we want is Natalee, whether she's alive or dead. We want to bring her back to the United States, and we'll leave and they can do whatever they want to do.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8551824/


'The Abrams Report' - July. 6, 2005

BETH HOLLOWAY TWITTY, NATALEE HOLLOWAY'S MOTHER:  We cannot forget to demand and expect to have Natalee.  Natalee deserves to return to her country.  She deserves it, and everyone knows it, Martin, every single person.  Every single person knows that.  They know it.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8485029/