Natalee Case Discussion #820 6/10/09 - 7/13/09

[crazybabyborg]

Jen? If you should want a little red white and blue, you're all fixed up!


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/4th%20of%20July/Jen.gif

Did I mention I can't sleep?   

 

[jen3560]

Too bad I didn't have the opportunity to tell Mr. Harms what I think about Aruba.   

 

Well I noticed that he blamed Beth, Greta, Dr Phil, etc for the negative perception of Aruba.

What I failed to notice in his article was the placing of the blame directly where it belongs - with Joran van der Sloot, Paulus van der Sloot, and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe.

Surely that man knows it was THOSE FOUR MEN who have caused and created this whole mess and put Aruba in a bad light? 

Good afternoon Monkeys! 

EXACTLY Jen!

I probably should have cooled down a bit before I made my post about the article.   

My anger at the "perception" problem being blamed on Natalee, Beth, and some of the media that kept her story in the news just infuriated me!  I'm so sick of the blame being misdirected.  I could have had a really good rant about it, but made my short and to the point comment instead.

Some of what I was thinking:

The authorities in Aruba know who is responsible for the crimes against Natalee.

They had a confession in less than two weeks.

They covered up that statement and any evidence.

They have stonewalled and tortured Natalee's family for four years.

They have put as much or more money and energy into a blatant disinformation campaign, as they have any investigation.

They made their bed, now they can lay in it!

 

And may that be a very rocky bed for some time to come.

[jen3560]

Txmom - these are as near to my thoughts as you could get.  Thank you for this post.

When a person is relying on someone else to do a good deed for them - there's not much that person can do or say to make any changes in a "humanitarian endeavor" on his behalf, without feeling like a complete heel.  Not to mention being perceived as ungrateful.

Poor Dave (and Tim) were at the mercy of those who had promised to help them.

Janet,

I don't know what you expect us to do.  I cannot accuse Tim Miller nor most especially Dave Holloway of intentionally furthering the Aruban coverup.

My thought is that both were estatic that Louis Schaefer was willing to FUND the Persistence mission in the beginning.  The mere cost of such an undertaking would be overwhelming for anyone that hoped such a mission could be launched in search of a loved one.  Tim Miller knows better than anyone how many individual donations and even corporate donations it would take to make such a mission possible.  YES...somewhere along the way that changed and TES was used to raise funds for it. 

Dave Holloway nor Tim Miller OWNED THE PERSISTENCE, which left John Silvetti to make the decision on where the boat was docked; and other decisions regarding the boat....WHO WAS ON BOARD....AND THE ACTIVITIES OF THE CREW.

My thought is that both Dave Holloway and Tim Miller TRUSTED those they were working with on the endeavor, and BELIEVED that these men were dedicated to helping this family.  I don't believe that Tim Miller nor Dave Holloway would have ever EVEN IMAGINED that these men that THEY considered American Heroes would ever even consider doing anything that would compromise the ultimate goal....FINDING NATALEE AND BRINGING HER HOME.  Yes, Tim Miller SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE when any samples were taken, I believe the timing of that was deliberate so that he wasn't there.

In MY OPINION at the point that Dave Holloway was informed that a large amount of money was needed or the mission would be over; he put John Silvetti in contact with the AHATA representative because he believed that with the prospect of Natalee's remains being found by the Persistence, AHATA should and would be willing to make a large contribution toward that effort.  Think about it...IF Natalee's remains had been recovered by the Persistence, and returned home where she belongs...IT WOULD HAVE BEEN MEGA HUGE NEWS!  Wouldn't AHATA want to be able to say that they made a large contribution to that effort?  There would still be the matter of NO JUSTICE FOR NATALEE, but her being returned home where she belongs...and AHATA helping make that possible would have been a very positive mark for AHATA in the minds of many Americans and people all over the world that have followed this case. 

Hindsight is always 20/20 Janet, and if Dave Holloway and Tim Miller are guilty of anything...it was TRUSTING THE WRONG PEOPLE TO DO THE RIGHT THING.  AGAIN.   

As far as the working relationship Tim Miller has with them now, I have no idea other than the possibilities I've stated previously which are pure speculation.

JMO

[jen3560]

Janet I posted an update last night in prayer thread.  Today is even better, tomorrow is on to a rehab center and then home from there.  Much better spirits today and can move her arm a little bit today.  One day at a time.

Janet, I just don't know what to say about Tim and Dave other than I honestly do not believe they had anything to do with this coverup except for the fact they were naive and being used.  Used by AHATA, Aruba, and the ALE and finally by the crew of the Persistence.  Dave, to me, is very naive and wanted with all his heart to believe these people in Aruba could and would help him find his baby girl.  They didn't and all I can hope for for him now is it has gone on too long and now is the time to stand strong and against this corrupt island and tell it like it is.  Aruba WILL NEVER give justice for Natalee. 

All I can say at the moment is I am here foremost for Natalee and I pray a hero will rescue her and bring her home to her family.  I will stand beside Beth through it all for that very reason.  There has to be one honest person on that island who will do the right thing for Natalee and her family but I do know who that person/persons are not-AHATA, the Dutch elite, Julia R., Mark P., and so on and so on.  Precious time was wasted by believing in these scrums.  They did not care for Natalee and they really did not care for Natalee's mother--she told it like it is.  They did not like that.

Tim Miller will allow people to use him and vice versus if it helps him bring one more son/daughter/mother/father home to their families.  In my heart I believe Tim knew what he saw and that will forever haunt him just as finding the remains of his daughter did.  He knew then, he knows now.  JMO

Very well said Blue Moon.  Tim's heart is ALWAYS in the right place when it comes to missing loved ones.

[jen3560]

Thank you CBB!  I love it!

Jen? If you should want a little red white and blue, you're all fixed up!


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/4th%20of%20July/Jen.gif

Did I mention I can't sleep?   

 

[jen3560]

Like a wise monkey said a few pages back - we weren't aboard the Persistence when Silvetti gave Tim the boot.

Kyle wasn't even awake and topside to hear that discussion.  Argument?

It was John's boat, not Tim's and not Dave's.  It was Schaefer's money (ha-ha) not Tim's and not Dave's.  It was a crew taking on this project for pennies on the dollar in terms of their wages.

IMO, the ONLY THING either Dave or Tim could do was make suggestions, and take the whole endeavor with a huge THANK YOU to all of those mentioned above.

Very, very sad truth.  That saying about kicking a gift horse in the mouth comes to mind.

Likely, both of them had to grit their teeth at having no US law enforcement on board - and we know what Beth's brother's opinion was about how Silvetti handled all of it.

Considering it was John's boat - and KNOWING all that Tim Miller has done to try and bring Natalee home over the past 4 years, I can't imagine he left that ship happily, eagerly, or without some choice words for John.

BUT - just because Tim hasn't said anything publicly about what he saw, his feelings about what occurred, or any outrage at it all - doesn't necessarily mean that he, Beth, and Dave haven't discussed this in depth - with him providing other (unknown to us) information about what transpired.

[2NJSons_Mom]

Valero Delays Planned Shutdown of Aruba Oil Refinery (Update2)
Share | Email | Print | A A A

By Jessica Resnick-Ault and Barbara Powell

June 15 (Bloomberg) -- Valero Energy Corp., the largest U.S. refiner, will delay until July the planned two- to three- month shutdown of its Aruba plant, originally scheduled for June, Bill Day, a company spokesman, said in an interview.

Valero, based in San Antonio, said last week that the shutdown was for “economic reasons” and to make repairs. The length of the closing still will be two to three months, Day said in a telephone interview today.

Valero is trying to identify what improvements and repairs it will make to the refinery while it is shut. These are not related to Valero’s efforts to sell the refinery, Day said. Valero in November 2007 said it hired UBS Investment Bank to help sell the plant.

“We want to improve it regardless and not necessarily to get it ready for a sale,” Day said. “We had some lingering maintenance issues we want to take care of, including electrical upgrades.”

The plant’s 780 employees will either work on the repairs or will be in training, he said. The Aruba refinery is one of the island nation’s largest employers.

The Aruba plant, with a capacity to process 275,000 barrels of crude oil a day, produces diesel fuel and feedstock for other Valero refineries. It doesn’t make finished gasoline.

Day declined to say whether Valero would divert crude supplies from Aruba to refineries in the U.S.

To contact the reporter on this story: Jessica Resnick-Ault in New York at jresnickault@bloomberg.net; Barbara Powell in Dallas at Bpowell4@bloomberg.net.

Last Updated: June 15, 2009 12:26 EDT
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601072&sid=a3iy5VC2e8U8

[2NJSons_Mom]

UBS Investmant Bank:

 http://www.ubs.com/1/e/about/ourprofile.html

UBS Homepage > About us > ...in a few words

UBS in a few words
Headquartered in Zurich and Basel, Switzerland, UBS is one of the world's leading financial firms. It serves a discerning, international client base with its

wealth management

investment banking and

asset management businesses.

In Switzerland, UBS is the market leader in retail and commercial banking.

More about our businesses
Presence
 

UBS is present in all major financial centers worldwide. It has offices in over 50 countries, with about 38% of its employees working in the Americas, 34% in Switzerland, 15% in the rest of Europe and 13% in Asia Pacific. UBS employs more than 75,000 people around the world. Its shares are listed on the SIX Swiss Exchange, the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) and the Tokyo Stock Exchange (TSE).

Locations
Top
Page last updated: May 26, 2009, 4:54 PM
Print this page  Rate this page  Send this page   

   

[hotping]

I guess if they just cruise on by Aruba in their yachts, the following may be true!

 

http://www.24ora.com/content/view/9722/6/



msnbc: aruba one of the destinacionan of more "safe" at world

monday, 15 june 2009 - 12:18

recientemente msnbc owing to make one reportahe on the destinacionan of more assure rond world. the medio of comunicacion is informa cu despite of the caso big of natalee holloway at aruba, the islands abc is one of the lugarnan of more assure for viaha. the stadisticanan is talk cla. level of crimen contra tourist is abow, instabilidad politico casi do not take lugar y the islands is situa mucho south for one horcan. aruba was the unique island cu the haja one "perfect score" in one the encuesta of turism of yacht. click read more for more detayes. for can owing to make the investigacion here msnbc owing to compila several dato of "u.s state department" encuanto crimen contra ciudadanonan mericano in exterior y also owing to analisa the ultimo relato of united nations. come across

TM This article...Goes with Your Post... 

http://www.aruba.com/news/general-news/aruba-bonaire-and-curacao-dutch-abc-islands-on-a-list-of-the-worlds-safest-places-to-travel/

[crazybabyborg]

Hi Monkeys!

It's a year today in Caylee's case, and I am mindful of the first anniversary of Natalee's disappearance we all spent together. I thought there would be some stab at justice before now. BUT, we know much more, and like Hotping says, "Prayers are answered in time".

Hotping? I'm trying to make deliveries, so please forgive the O/T! If you should want it..........   


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/4th%20of%20July/hotping.gif

[hotping]

Hi Monkeys!

It's a year today in Caylee's case, and I am mindful of the first anniversary of Natalee's disappearance we all spent together. I thought there would be some stab at justice before now. BUT, we know much more, and like Hotping says, "Prayers are answered in time".

Hotping? I'm trying to make deliveries, so please forgive the O/T! If you should want it..........   


http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c100/crazybabyborgs/4th%20of%20July/hotping.gif

Thank You CBB..Of Course I want it....I'll go change right now! 

[jen3560]

Looking for any help my fellow Monkeys can provide here.....................

Does anyone know of a connection between Rosalie Klein (AKA Scubajap) and ANY former Monkey?

I received a copy of a communication that might open up a door with LOTS of answers.  Maybe.

TIA!!

[jen3560]

Looking for any help my fellow Monkeys can provide here.....................

Does anyone know of a connection between Rosalie Klein (AKA Scubajap) and ANY former Monkey?

I received a copy of a communication that might open up a door with LOTS of answers.  Maybe.

TIA!!

Let me clarify just a bit - a connection with any Stateside former Monkey?

[jen3560]

This might be helpful.

Michelle posted this way back when on her blog (I think 2007):


 **This was emailed to me by "a concerned blogger named 'FNJ' who felt it was necessary to "out" this person. I'm all for outing people if necessary...so here goes!


ROSALIE KLEIN IS SCUBAJAP



1. Scubajap moved to Aruba in 1980 to be a Scuba Instructor


"My English is very good because I am an American. I came to Aruba in 1980 to work as a Scuba instructor, the first first female instructor on the island."


Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 04, 2005 at 04:16 AM

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/warrant_issued_.html#comments


2. Scubajap is a female and a mother
3. Scubajap is an American
4. Scubajap is Jewish
5. Scubajap has two children
6. Scubajap is a reporter for a newspaper and also freelances
7. Scubajap has traveled extensively
8. Scubajap has lived in Aruba over 25 years, and has ties to the Scuba diving industry
9. Scubajap was 34 when she had her daughter
10. Scubajap lived in New York
11. Scubajap has a brother who is engaged
12. Scubajap has a married sister
13. Scubajap paints on silk
14. Scubajap attended University in Ohio



1. Rosalie Klein moved to Aruba in 1980 to be a Scuba Instructor
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:SEG8w_pwy2kJ:solodipueblo.com/index.php%3Foption%3Dcom_docman%26task%3Ddoc_download%26gid%3D527%26Itemid%3D2+%22rosalie+klein%22+aruba&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=19

2. Rosalie is a "she" and a mother
3. Rosalie Klein is an American
4. Rosalie Klein is Jewish
5. Rosalie Klein has two children
6. Rosalie Klein is a reporter for Aruba News and freelances
7. Rosalie Klein has traveled extensively
8. Rosalie Klein has lived in Aruba over 25 years, and has ties to the Scuba diving industry
9. Rosalie Klein was 34 when she had her daughter
10. Rosalie Klein lived in New York in the 70’s
11. Rosalie Klein has a brother who is engaged
12. Rosalie Klein has a married sister
13. Rosalie Klein paints on silk
14. Rosalie Klein attended University in Ohio




Does Rosalie Klein get paid to spread filth about Natalee and her family? Or is it "just personal"? Perhaps it is simply another Aruba lover focusing attention away from any possibility of a crime. She describes her intentions best, with the following post:




Of course, now it would appear I am in the middle of a real, life drama, with some real evil to battle. Perhaps that is why I feel compelled to take up arms in this propaganda war...

Posted by: scubajap Sun Jan 15th, 2006 01:42 pm
http://freedomofblog.com/view_topic.php?id=36&forum_id=39&jump_to=873#p873




TELL US, Rosalie, how you feel about Natalee's mother. Please throw in some speculation as well, to fuel the internet rumors...




Everything is he said this and he said that or “Beth said so and so said this” and though I have complete sympathy for the women, it has also been proven her statements aren’t always reliable.

Posted by: scubajap | Thursday, August 04, 2005 at 01:22 AM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/08/warrant_issued_.html#comments



I am also American and a mother-so don't tell me I don't "feel" for Beth. I have always been sympathetic, but why does she have to lie constantly, even about little things like this? So it really makes one wonder, if she feels impelled to lie about these little things, what else is she lying about, and why?

Posted by: scubajap | Sunday, November 06, 2005 at 06:06 PM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/11/beth_twitty_las.html



If the Twittys hadn't kept on pushing...

Posted by: scubajap | Monday, December 05, 2005 at 09:25 PM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/12/natalee_hollowa.html



Bizarre indeed, as is just about everything about this case, including the behavior of the family. There are a number of other points that bear examination, but there have been roadblocks set up by the family constantly along the way............

Posted by: Scubajap | Monday, December 05, 2005 at 10:48 PM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/12/natalee_hollowa.html



I am sorry, I had lots of sympathy for Beth, I am a mother, and I felt for her, but what she is doing, and the people she will hurt by it is an evil thing, I don't care how you try to justify it, it is WRONG.....REally, do you think 1000 of those children are worth on Natalee?

Posted by: scubajap | Monday, December 05, 2005 at 11:26 PM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/12/natalee_hollowa.html



Aside from that, I have found out all these things, the lying, the shoving, long, long ago, and then in the light of that, to see what they are doing, and the people the Twittys associate themselves with and how can I find their actions defendable?....................

Posted by: scubajap | Monday, December 05, 2005 at 11:51 PM
http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2005/12/natalee_hollowa.html



Do you all ever feel like we're in a huge, scripted sinister soap opera? From the time Betty & crooks moved Faux News into Aruba with hours of the disappearance to the VDS' being foolish enough to travel to NYC seems like a hell of a lot of coincidences.

Posted by scubajap: Fri Feb 17th, 2006 05:38 pm
http://freedomofblog.com/view_topic.php?id=248&forum_id=29&jump_to=4332#p4332



People are assuming that simply because Dave is an insurance man he had a policy on his daughter's life? sorry, I would like a bit more proof than that. Of course, who needs insurance, when you have book and movie deals? Just a thought.

Posted by: scubajap Sun Jan 15th, 2006 12:33 am
http://freedomofblog.com/view_topic.php?id=26&forum_id=29&jump_to=849#p849



Actually, the interesting aspect of the fact that the guard had the items is simply that they NEVER were reported stolen. There is some speculation that the kids might have traded them for, well, who knows what. If he had anything of Natalee's, as far as I know, it has not been identified as such.

Posted by: scubajap Fri Jan 20th, 2006 11:37 am
http://freedomofblog.com/view_topic.php?id=78&forum_id=29&jump_to=1320#p1320



I can only speculate on what I have heard, and that he is someone from the coast guard stationed out of Curacao, and was here for the night, Natalee's first or second night, and then went back to Curacao. this is from people that know him. Supposedly, he was interviewed by police, I have been told. Just a bit of seculation on my part.

Posted by: scubajap Sun Jan 22nd, 2006 11:22 am
http://freedomofblog.com/view_topic.php?id=78&forum_id=29&jump_to=1432#p1432



I personally did not feel it was important as to what the fluid was, as to whose DNA it belongs to, that is another matter. If not Jug's or J2K, then whose? Does this bring someone else into the room with Natalee? someone she was kissing? just kind of an interesting loose end left hanging there, and until identified, how significant is it?

Posted by: scubajap Sun Jan 22nd, 2006 06:45 pm
http://freedomofblog.com/view_topic.php?id=78&forum_id=29&jump_to=1446#p1446



I think a great deal will be accomplished by interviewing the people from MB....For one thing, I would like to see them question Natalee's roommates very carefully about all thier movements that night and get a time reference as to their comings and going from their room....There are a lot of other pressing questions, IMHO, which can only be answered by talking to those kids....I have a list of questions I would like to see them ask those kids, I sincerely hope they ask them.

Posted by: scubajap Mon Jan 23rd, 2006 11:14 am
http://freedomofblog.com/view_topic.php?id=78&forum_id=29&jump_to=1527#p1527
==================

I wonder just how prophetic Rosalie knew what I highlighted in blue would be. 

[klaasend]

Maybe her facebook can give us some answers:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?sid=1a718c6587e17b439e086e16175aee5d&id=836109440&hiq=rosalie%2Cklein&ref=search

She has 622 friends 

[jen3560]

Maybe her facebook can give us some answers:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?sid=1a718c6587e17b439e086e16175aee5d&id=836109440&hiq=rosalie%2Cklein&ref=search

She has 622 friends 

thanks klaas!!!!!!!

[jen3560]

crap.  I guess I have to register with an account to do anything on Facebook, huh? 

[2NJSons_Mom]

Checking out FB, but had this:

http://www.aruba.com/forum/f13/wedding-photographer-38397/

CindyO and I renewed our wedding vows in April of 2008. We used Rosalie Klein for the photography and she did a wonderful job. Her price was very reasonable.

Rosalie also works as a freelance journalist, and covered my daughter's 16th birthday party at Hard Rock Cafe for the newspaper "The News". Again, very professional.

I've contacted her via e-mail....she is very responsive.

rosalie.klein@gmail.com

Good Luck!
__________________

[jen3560]

Maybe her facebook can give us some answers:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?sid=1a718c6587e17b439e086e16175aee5d&id=836109440&hiq=rosalie%2Cklein&ref=search

She has 622 friends 

At first glance, I don't see who I'm looking for.

But check this page of her friends for some interesting names that might help discern what direction I'm going

http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=836109440&flid=&view=everyone&q=&nt=0&nk=0&s=550&st=0

[2NJSons_Mom]

Maybe her facebook can give us some answers:

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#/profile.php?sid=1a718c6587e17b439e086e16175aee5d&id=836109440&hiq=rosalie%2Cklein&ref=search

She has 622 friends 

At first glance, I don't see who I'm looking for.

But check this page of her friends for some interesting names that might help discern what direction I'm going

http://www.facebook.com/friends/?id=836109440&flid=&view=everyone&q=&nt=0&nk=0&s=550&st=0

I follow.....starting from the beginning, I was just noticing local names we all know...Jairo, Dilma, Alberto, Tito, etc.