Lively Case Discussion #488 7/6 - 7/7/2006

[shadow]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

[Tylergal]

FOM -       You crack me up!      

ty.......not  everyone appreciates my style but i am glad to give u a laugh anytime klass

FOM, I think that island might be full of people who enjoy golden showers, not sure, but they are pretty kinky.  I thought it was hilarious.

[thirdstrike]

Ok.....so Anita says a full search of the whole property was done.....BUT.....we hear otherwise and that only Joran's apt. was searched. Are there documents to any searches on the whole property? I suppose if any docs did exist, that now they are in the damn trash, just like everything else in this case......,no,??

One other thing to add to this as well...if there was a video taken that night, you can betthe farm that it no longer exists!  It has been destroyed, IMO.  They'd be candidates for the dumbest people in the history of human existence if they didn't...

Third, I totally agree with you that there was a video being made or made and Natalee became cognizant of what was going on and threatened them with legal authorities but I do disagree when you say it has been destroyed.  I do believe that video still exists and it might be in Aruba or made its way to Holland with Guido.  It is still out there.  Somoene has it for a souvenir.  That's the way criminals behave.  They save something for a souvenir and videos are usually what they save although I think Joran or Deepak has Natalee's earrings, perhaps Fanita has them, even wearing them and flaunting them in public to see if anyone can see them.  She would do that.

I do agree (in regards to the videotape still existing) that criminals would keep things like this as a souvenir if their M.O. was that of raping and killing on more of a "routine" (and I use this loosely) basis.  By that, I mean that I'd agree more with saying the tape still exists if they (Joran and the K2's) used murder as their ultimate goal in victimizing tourists on the island (instead of only raping and filming them).  Am I making any sense?  I guess I should explain that I believe they are responsible for her death, but IMO, as an accident (as a byproduct of the drugs being administered to her without her knowledge, or rather a result of rough sexual activity).  What you describe is more the actions of someone who did this more frequently (killing, that is)...

Damn, I feel like a mumble-mouth today! Can't get out anything that makes any kind of sense.  Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say anyway...

[Tylergal]

Well...gotta run!! Off to the office (YUCK!!)
Read earlier where someone went to NHI for rare disease..so sorry...have been speed reading and not real thorough!! If meant NIH instead (National Institute of Health) instead and need any help or special attention...please let me know. My brother is doing his post doctorate there and may be able to help. Just let me know. I know it's a HUGE place w/ tons of research going on...but trust me....I know from when my sister had cancer...knowing someone on the "inside" really does help get you some extra attention!!

It really is an awesome place.  I received treatment there.  It cost a lot when I came home on it as a maintenance dose but it was worth it.  I gave a (deposition) (testimony) to FDA on behalf of my benefits received from NIH regards the drug I used.  Now it is a legally prescribed drug that many suffering from MS are using.

[ldstlou]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

so sorry..I tend to disagree here. Having been slipped a date rape drug...as I told earlier...so humiliating!! only ONE memeber of my family knows..NONE of my friends!! so glad I could share w/ all of you...more inclined to believe she put up a fight.

[Tylergal]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

What explains she "fell and hit her head?"

[shadow]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

What explains she "fell and hit her head?"

That's a good question. Maybe it was somehting said just to throw us all off the trail of what really did happen. Also, it could have been a post-mortum head injury??  I do agree with you to an extent. I would really like to believe she put up a fight and she may have before they could re-drug her. I hate thinking about all this. Makes me ill.

[thirdstrike]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

so sorry..I tend to disagree here. Having been slipped a date rape drug...as I told earlier...so humiliating!! only ONE memeber of my family knows..NONE of my friends!! so glad I could share w/ all of you...more inclined to believe she put up a fight.

I'd still tend to believe that (unfortunately) if PVDS was part of the disposal (as I truly believe he is), he must have been privy to intimate details of his sons' activities that night...including the filming of the act itself.  To go so far as to include your father in something as major as assiting in the coverup of the killing of an American tourist, one wouldn't be afforded the luxury of witholding anything related to the crime...up to and including removal of the body.

With that being said, don't you think Joran's father would have counceled him to destroy anything tying him to Natalee in any way, shape or form?  I't make perfect sense to.  And, the ALE gave them plenty of time to do just that, didn't they??  

[Tylergal]

Interesting, recent read from Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/27/AR2006062700428.html

[ldstlou]

Well...gotta run!! Off to the office (YUCK!!)
Read earlier where someone went to NHI for rare disease..so sorry...have been speed reading and not real thorough!! If meant NIH instead (National Institute of Health) instead and need any help or special attention...please let me know. My brother is doing his post doctorate there and may be able to help. Just let me know. I know it's a HUGE place w/ tons of research going on...but trust me....I know from when my sister had cancer...knowing someone on the "inside" really does help get you some extra attention!!

It really is an awesome place.  I received treatment there.  It cost a lot when I came home on it as a maintenance dose but it was worth it.  I gave a (deposition) (testimony) to FDA on behalf of my benefits received from NIH regards the drug I used.  Now it is a legally prescribed drug that many suffering from MS are using.

how fanatstic!!! so proud of my baby brother!! He was born on my birthday 8 years after me!! Still....the greatest present I received in my life...outside of my son!! And my son's godfather and mentor!! He is doing such great work there!! and becoming world roknowned!! Sorry for bragging!! Just so darned proud of him!! Reason I never got married...said I want a man as good as my brother...haven't found him yet!! haha But when my sister had cancer...got her into Mayo clinic in 2 days!! Frat brother there and a big surgeon. Had alot of pull!! REALLY makes a difference in the world of medicine!! My Momma died at 49 of ovarian cancer...told you all this...can't believe how easy it is to share with you wonderful people!! TRUELY AMAZING!! But by coincidence...my brother was doing undergrad pre-med work on ovarian cancer...funny..not really funny...weird funny...how the universe works!! I think the thing that really GRABBED me about Natalee...she was just like my brother!! Always KNEW!! she wanted to be a Dr. I don't know if some people fully comprehend how hard it was to get into the program at college that she did!! I mean EXTREMELY competitive!!  Bless her sweet soul and heart!! Ok...gotta stop...I am at work and can't start crying here!!

[Carnut]

Interesting, recent read from Washington Post.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/06/27/AR2006062700428.html

Another 'We obviously don't understand their system' type thing.

[Anna]

.
Third,
You have led a very sheltered life, haven't you?   Guess you skipped all the Bangbus research archiving serial rapist/trickster activities?  Seems very popular on the island based on myspace type references.  Apparently even though I believe it to be totally fake, some people not only record rapist activity, they sell it on the internet in a big way.  And claim to make money.  There is also something called LionDollars for hosting things from the porn sites of Lions Dens.  One Aruban has a photo of his car with Bangbus Productions texted around it as though that is how he paid for it.  And shows himself holding lots of money spread out like a fan.

There are also any number of spin off porn sites using the same basic concept of sort of kidnapping the girl to get her into the bus, car, van, etc.  and it is an ongoing thing.  I am sure many new adventures have been added recently, have not been back.  But each one chronicles an event of just this sort of thing.  Also porn websites about raping unconscious girls.  It's all out there to be used as a model for pimp wannabees and other perverts.

 

.

[ldstlou]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

What explains she "fell and hit her head?"

That's a good question. Maybe it was somehting said just to throw us all off the trail of what really did happen. Also, it could have been a post-mortum head injury??  I do agree with you to an extent. I would really like to believe she put up a fight and she may have before they could re-drug her. I hate thinking about all this. Makes me ill.

I agree w/ Art on this one...there is a reason they said this...to cover their butts!! Something happened and she hit her head!! Would have been really hard to "redrug her" I think...would have had to have involved a needle which I doubt they just had handy.

[Jerry from Ohio]

[  Not only does lying make her uglier, but lying in a see-thru blouse and then describing Natalee's underwear almost makes her look and sound like a pedophile.[/quote]

   I had brougt up the possability of Anita being a sexual degenerate a few weeks ago but got no replys
 SoI thought the idea was possably just not PC as a lot of folks do not want to even hear about suchthings as this in polite discussion and so I let it go .
  I ave seen and known women that just loved to  ear all sorts of sorted details  such as NH's Undies described as well as the sex acts and how the woman reacted to them like it or not  no one can come up with ANY proof of the GVS interview except for Gretas word wich I am starting to hold suspect
even Gretas staff said that it was just Gretas opinion tat she couldnt  talk about the underware details part of the interview  so maybe Anita  was enjoying telling Greta  the stories and watching Greta squirm .   JMO a possability

[Tylergal]

I think Satish has the missing tennis shoe.  Why do I think this?  Because the sporter was so adamant about Satish wanting to speed away from where (crime scene) he had left Natalee.  If the shoe(s) crop up anytime, he can say that Satish went back and killed her.  Satish, run -- don't walk -- to the nearest phone and call the FBI.  Otherwise, your a** is grass and the VDS family is the lawnmower.

[Jacqueline]

Uncle Mike has his passport back and scheduled for a flight for home tomorrow.

Thanks again all Monkeys!

Shout out to AZSUNNY~
Thinking about you today with your echo test.

Hope all is well and glad that by the time you are reading this, the test is now behind you!

[sharon]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

What explains she "fell and hit her head?"

I'm glad you mention that Tylergal.

After the other day when Klaas was able to trace back to the start of the 'Natalee ran away' rumor -- I was wondering how many more lies got out there in a similar way.

I for one would love to be able to see our archives and go back to every Bondia post.

But...I have not been able to find a statement from any of the 3 boys that said she 'hit her head'. I can only find that 'she fell down'.

If anyone can find where the 'she hit her head' came from, I think that would be interesting.

[shadow]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

What explains she "fell and hit her head?"

That's a good question. Maybe it was somehting said just to throw us all off the trail of what really did happen. Also, it could have been a post-mortum head injury??  I do agree with you to an extent. I would really like to believe she put up a fight and she may have before they could re-drug her. I hate thinking about all this. Makes me ill.

I agree w/ Art on this one...there is a reason they said this...to cover their butts!! Something happened and she hit her head!! Would have been really hard to "redrug her" I think...would have had to have involved a needle which I doubt they just had handy.

That is a valid point.

[ldstlou]

I think Satish has the missing tennis shoe.  Why do I think this?  Because the sporter was so adamant about Satish wanting to speed away from where (crime scene) he had left Natalee.  If the shoe(s) crop up anytime, he can say that Satish went back and killed her.  Satish, run -- don't walk -- to the nearest phone and call the FBI.  Otherwise, your a** is grass and the VDS family is the lawnmower.

??? in a hurry as in "hit the girl" or am I missing something? I think it would have come up in the cop car conversation if the K2 brothers had something over Joran's head...just seemed to me as though it were the other way around..as though Joran had something on K2 brothers...whether it had to do with Natalee...or other instances...who knows?
I still think Satish is the weak link though....question is...how to get to him?!

[thirdstrike]

.
Third,
You have led a very sheltered life, haven't you?   Guess you skipped all the Bangbus research archiving serial rapist/trickster activities?  Seems very popular on the island based on myspace type references.  Apparently even though I believe it to be totally fake, some people not only record rapist activity, they sell it on the internet in a big way.  And claim to make money.  There is also something called LionDollars for hosting things from the porn sites of Lions Dens.  One Aruban has a photo of his car with Bangbus Productions texted around it as though that is how he paid for it.  And shows himself holding lots of money spread out like a fan.

There are also any number of spin off porn sites using the same basic concept of sort of kidnapping the girl to get her into the bus, car, van, etc.  and it is an ongoing thing.  I am sure many new adventures have been added recently, have not been back.  But each one chronicles an event of just this sort of thing.  Also porn websites about raping unconscious girls.  It's all out there to be used as a model for pimp wannabees and other perverts.

 

.

Oh trust me Anna, a sheltered life I have not lead...even though it'd probably be better for me if I had.  But, to get to you point...the "Bangbus" concept is nothing new.  In fact, it's one in a LONG line of pornographic production companies existing today.  And, believe me when I say this...I live in the porno capital of the world (San Fernando Valley, California), so I know.  But, getting back to my point...the "Bangbus" movies are far from what you are describing in your "videotape theory" involving Joran and the K2's.  Even though it's kind of a contridictory in terms, "Bangbus" is a legitimate adult film business, with all the participants being paid actors reading off of loosely written scripts (in regards to circumstances, not necessarily lines read).  There is no rape occuring on those clips.  As a matter of fact, one can easily recognize many adult film stars in them (if you know what you are looking for).  Sure, they are cheap and opportunistic...and their morals and ethics should be very heavily questioned, but let's be fair here...they are not rapists, and are most surely aren't murderers...

What I'm sayting is this...if they did videotape the act of rape (which I do believe they did), it was for the purposes of "entertainment" withing their sleazy ranks.  But, when the rape evolved into "murder", then I believe the  "souvenir" was destroyed...

Just my 2 cents.