Lively Case Discussion #488 7/6 - 7/7/2006

[Carnut]

I think Satish has the missing tennis shoe.  Why do I think this?  Because the sporter was so adamant about Satish wanting to speed away from where (crime scene) he had left Natalee.  If the shoe(s) crop up anytime, he can say that Satish went back and killed her.  Satish, run -- don't walk -- to the nearest phone and call the FBI.  Otherwise, your a** is grass and the VDS family is the lawnmower.

Yep, the K2's definitely have something on JVDS or this case woulda been over a long time ago.

Only now the K2's really need to be careful about accidents and possibly winding up in a cave somewhere.

[ldstlou]

Uncle Mike has his passport back and scheduled for a flight for home tomorrow.

Thanks again all Monkeys!

Shout out to AZSUNNY~
Thinking about you today with your echo test.

Hope all is well and glad that by the time you are reading this, the test is now behind you!

AMEN!!! and CONGRATS!!

[Anna]

.
And it is possible that no video was taken at all not even any photos but if Freddie was involved, what an opportunity for him to miss.  Certainly Paulus would have told Joran to get rid of all evidence and in fact ALE gave then ten days or ever how long they needed apparently but I do not think Joran was totally in charge of any vid/photo. Either Deepak or Freddie would be the ones to want to keep the evidence especially if Joran is the one actually responsible for her death, sort of insurance that maybe they were in on raping or maybe just watching but certainly had nothing to do with killing anybody, that was all Joran.  

Just who I think is the one holding out with that evidence IF it exists at all.
And it would be hiden in cyberspace not on a cd that could be destroyed.


.

[Tylergal]

I think Satish has the missing tennis shoe.  Why do I think this?  Because the sporter was so adamant about Satish wanting to speed away from where (crime scene) he had left Natalee.  If the shoe(s) crop up anytime, he can say that Satish went back and killed her.  Satish, run -- don't walk -- to the nearest phone and call the FBI.  Otherwise, your a** is grass and the VDS family is the lawnmower.

??? in a hurry as in "hit the girl" or am I missing something? I think it would have come up in the cop car conversation if the K2 brothers had something over Joran's head...just seemed to me as though it were the other way around..as though Joran had something on K2 brothers...whether it had to do with Natalee...or other instances...who knows?
I still think Satish is the weak link though....question is...how to get to him?!

Remember Baby Huey's interview with Greta where he described Satish picking him up and he did not have time to go back and get his shoes, Satish said something to the effect, "to hell with it," or something similar.  Right there is where he tells me that Satish has the shoe(s).

[ldstlou]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

What explains she "fell and hit her head?"

I'm glad you mention that Tylergal.

After the other day when Klaas was able to trace back to the start of the 'Natalee ran away' rumor -- I was wondering how many more lies got out there in a similar way.

is Klaas here? Was that rumor or fact?

I for one would love to be able to see our archives and go back to every Bondia post.

But...I have not been able to find a statement from any of the 3 boys that said she 'hit her head'. I can only find that 'she fell down'.

If anyone can find where the 'she hit her head' came from, I think that would be interesting.

[Anna]

[
Yep, the K2's definitely have something on JVDS or this case woulda been over a long time ago.

Only now the K2's really need to be careful about accidents and possibly winding up in a cave somewhere.

Right, Carnut,
I am just not sure if it is the shoe or the video.  Or something else entirely but they would be in KIA right now if they were not holding something that is used as protection for them.

BBLater. . . . . . . .

[Tylergal]

Uncle Mike has his passport back and scheduled for a flight for home tomorrow.

Thanks again all Monkeys!

Shout out to AZSUNNY~
Thinking about you today with your echo test.

Hope all is well and glad that by the time you are reading this, the test is now behind you!

Life is good.  I hope AZSunny has a negative echo and her day is uneventful otherwise.

Good on Uncle Mike.

Everyone seems to be having resolution; let's pray harder for Natalee.  God bless her wherever she is.

[Houdini]

Thirdstrike wrote:

I do agree (in regards to the videotape still existing) that criminals would keep things like this as a souvenir if their M.O. was that of raping and killing on more of a "routine" (and I use this loosely) basis. By that, I mean that I'd agree more with saying the tape still exists if they (Joran and the K2's) used murder as their ultimate goal in victimizing tourists on the island (instead of only raping and filming them). Am I making any sense? I guess I should explain that I believe they are responsible for her death, but IMO, as an accident (as a byproduct of the drugs being administered to her without her knowledge, or rather a result of rough sexual activity). What you describe is more the actions of someone who did this more frequently (killing, that is)...

Damn, I feel like a mumble-mouth today! Can't get out anything that makes any kind of sense. Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say anyway...

What thirdstrike is trying to convey is the saving of a souvenir is done by serial killers.  They can relive their conquest by watching or fondling the object.  Thirdstrike feels that this is NOT the case, as he believes NH's demise was probably due to accident.

See Third, I can be your translator!

[Tylergal]

tylergal: I agree with you that there probably is a tape still out there. However, I don't beleive Natalee died beacause she became concious of what was going on, but it was alcohol plus drugging, and potentially more drugging to keep her out when she did start to come to that caused her to pass. JMHO

What explains she "fell and hit her head?"

I'm glad you mention that Tylergal.

After the other day when Klaas was able to trace back to the start of the 'Natalee ran away' rumor -- I was wondering how many more lies got out there in a similar way.

is Klaas here? Was that rumor or fact?

I for one would love to be able to see our archives and go back to every Bondia post.

But...I have not been able to find a statement from any of the 3 boys that said she 'hit her head'. I can only find that 'she fell down'.

If anyone can find where the 'she hit her head' came from, I think that would be interesting.

The "hit her head" was the first week, before they were ever arrested.  They said they took her to the Holiday Inn, she fell and hit her head and black security guard(s) dressed in black pants and black shirts took charge of her after she told them she could get up by herself, so they drove away leaving her in the charge of the now non-existent "black security guards dressed in black."

That was the reason for the arrest of Jones & Johns.

[Tylergal]

Thirdstrike wrote:

I do agree (in regards to the videotape still existing) that criminals would keep things like this as a souvenir if their M.O. was that of raping and killing on more of a "routine" (and I use this loosely) basis. By that, I mean that I'd agree more with saying the tape still exists if they (Joran and the K2's) used murder as their ultimate goal in victimizing tourists on the island (instead of only raping and filming them). Am I making any sense? I guess I should explain that I believe they are responsible for her death, but IMO, as an accident (as a byproduct of the drugs being administered to her without her knowledge, or rather a result of rough sexual activity). What you describe is more the actions of someone who did this more frequently (killing, that is)...

Damn, I feel like a mumble-mouth today! Can't get out anything that makes any kind of sense. Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say anyway...

What thirdstrike is trying to convey is the saving of a souvenir is done by serial killers.  They can relive their conquest by watching or fondling the object.  Thirdstrike feels that this is NOT the case, as he believes NH's demise was probably due to accident.

See Third, I can be your translator!

Saving souvenirs is also done by creeps who have done this 20 times before without consequences.  Like Anna, I think some may have lived in a goldfish bowl, and I certainly could be accused of this if I did not read as much as I do.

[ldstlou]

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Third,
You have led a very sheltered life, haven't you?   Guess you skipped all the Bangbus research archiving serial rapist/trickster activities?  Seems very popular on the island based on myspace type references.  Apparently even though I believe it to be totally fake, some people not only record rapist activity, they sell it on the internet in a big way.  And claim to make money.  There is also something called LionDollars for hosting things from the porn sites of Lions Dens.  One Aruban has a photo of his car with Bangbus Productions texted around it as though that is how he paid for it.  And shows himself holding lots of money spread out like a fan.

There are also any number of spin off porn sites using the same basic concept of sort of kidnapping the girl to get her into the bus, car, van, etc.  and it is an ongoing thing.  I am sure many new adventures have been added recently, have not been back.  But each one chronicles an event of just this sort of thing.  Also porn websites about raping unconscious girls.  It's all out there to be used as a model for pimp wannabees and other perverts.

 

.

Oh trust me Anna, a sheltered life I have not lead...even though it'd probably be better for me if I had.  But, to get to you point...the "Bangbus" concept is nothing new.  In fact, it's one in a LONG line of pornographic production companies existing today.  And, believe me when I say this...I live in the porno capital of the world (San Fernando Valley, California), so I know.  But, getting back to my point...the "Bangbus" movies are far from what you are describing in your "videotape theory" involving Joran and the K2's.  Even though it's kind of a contridictory in terms, "Bangbus" is a legitimate adult film business, with all the participants being paid actors reading off of loosely written scripts (in regards to circumstances, not necessarily lines read).  There is no rape occuring on those clips.  As a matter of fact, one can easily recognize many adult film stars in them (if you know what you are looking for).  Sure, they are cheap and opportunistic...and their morals and ethics should be very heavily questioned, but let's be fair here...they are not rapists, and are most surely aren't murderers...

What I'm sayting is this...if they did videotape the act of rape (which I do believe they did), it was for the purposes of "entertainment" withing their sleazy ranks.  But, when the rape evolved into "murder", then I believe the  "souvenir" was destroyed...

Just my 2 cents.

I can't BELIEVE!!! how BLONDE!! I am...when the "bangbus" stuff came up..I admit...I visited the site...and it SO disturbed me how people were duped!! Was thinking...oh my gosh!! theses young kids will have this haunt them for the rest of their lives!! Feel a little better knowing they are all active participants and knew in advance what was going on...is this really true?

[flyingmermaid]

Lets See

Hi XXX!

[flyingmermaid]

Yeah!  Thanks Jerry from Ohio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[thirdstrike]

Thirdstrike wrote:

I do agree (in regards to the videotape still existing) that criminals would keep things like this as a souvenir if their M.O. was that of raping and killing on more of a "routine" (and I use this loosely) basis. By that, I mean that I'd agree more with saying the tape still exists if they (Joran and the K2's) used murder as their ultimate goal in victimizing tourists on the island (instead of only raping and filming them). Am I making any sense? I guess I should explain that I believe they are responsible for her death, but IMO, as an accident (as a byproduct of the drugs being administered to her without her knowledge, or rather a result of rough sexual activity). What you describe is more the actions of someone who did this more frequently (killing, that is)...

Damn, I feel like a mumble-mouth today! Can't get out anything that makes any kind of sense. Hopefully you get what I'm trying to say anyway...

What thirdstrike is trying to convey is the saving of a souvenir is done by serial killers.  They can relive their conquest by watching or fondling the object.  Thirdstrike feels that this is NOT the case, as he believes NH's demise was probably due to accident.

See Third, I can be your translator!

My goodness, you took all my hot air, and filled a nice, purple colored baloon with it!  GREAT job!!  It's EXACTLY what I was trying to say...

[Houdini]

Tylergal wrote:

Remember Baby Huey's interview with Greta where he described Satish picking him up and he did not have time to go back and get his shoes, Satish said something to the effect, "to hell with it," or something similar. Right there is where he tells me that Satish has the shoe(s).

I don't see the conclusive reasoning that puts Satish in posession of the shoe.  But I will say that Joran took great pains to distance himself from the shoes, and even muddy the waters about their size as well.

He's definitely scared of the shoe(s) showing up.  Always thought he must not have been part of the disposal team, and maybe they reported back that they couldn't find the shoe.  Joran thinks someone has it for insurance.  JMHO

[ldstlou]

I think Satish has the missing tennis shoe.  Why do I think this?  Because the sporter was so adamant about Satish wanting to speed away from where (crime scene) he had left Natalee.  If the shoe(s) crop up anytime, he can say that Satish went back and killed her.  Satish, run -- don't walk -- to the nearest phone and call the FBI.  Otherwise, your a** is grass and the VDS family is the lawnmower.

Yep, the K2's definitely have something on JVDS or this case woulda been over a long time ago.

Only now the K2's really need to be careful about accidents and possibly winding up in a cave somewhere.

see, I think it is the otherway around...I think it is Joran who has something over K2 brother's or they would have spilled the beans long ago!!

[thirdstrike]

Lets See

Hi XXX!

Hello, my dear!!  How are you this fine Friday??  

[Houdini]

Thirdstrike wrote:

My goodness, you took all my hot air, and filled a nice, purple colored baloon with it! GREAT job!! It's EXACTLY what I was trying to say...

Think nothing of it Third, it was easy.   I have ESPN.

[ldstlou]

I think Satish has the missing tennis shoe.  Why do I think this?  Because the sporter was so adamant about Satish wanting to speed away from where (crime scene) he had left Natalee.  If the shoe(s) crop up anytime, he can say that Satish went back and killed her.  Satish, run -- don't walk -- to the nearest phone and call the FBI.  Otherwise, your a** is grass and the VDS family is the lawnmower.

??? in a hurry as in "hit the girl" or am I missing something? I think it would have come up in the cop car conversation if the K2 brothers had something over Joran's head...just seemed to me as though it were the other way around..as though Joran had something on K2 brothers...whether it had to do with Natalee...or other instances...who knows?
I still think Satish is the weak link though....question is...how to get to him?!

Remember Baby Huey's interview with Greta where he described Satish picking him up and he did not have time to go back and get his shoes, Satish said something to the effect, "to hell with it," or something similar.  Right there is where he tells me that Satish has the shoe(s).

but thought there was a consensus that they were never at the beach?! I still think Joran has something on K2 brothers that is keeping them silent. There were so many threats in that cop car...think Satish would have spilled the beans if Joran DIDN'T have something on them

[thirdstrike]

I can't BELIEVE!!! how BLONDE!! I am...when the "bangbus" stuff came up..I admit...I visited the site...and it SO disturbed me how people were duped!! Was thinking...oh my gosh!! theses young kids will have this haunt them for the rest of their lives!! Feel a little better knowing they are all active participants and knew in advance what was going on...is this really true?

If it was, in fact, real, all the authorities would have to do is track down the owner of the company itself, and arrest them with (what's probably now) hundreds of counts of rape.  Hell, all the "evidence" they'd need would be readily available to them via the video clips on the website itself.  Of course it's staged.  Wait...you don't think in those porno movies, the pizza delivery men where sent there to actually deliver pizza, do you??    What about the plumber??