Lively Case Discussion #488 7/6 - 7/7/2006

[Ono]

Hey y'all what's up??

and about the shoe... I know that y'all think I am probably crazy... but during the greta interview jvds smirks so hard at the questions about the shoes and then kinda rolls his feet and shows her his (old) shoes... I swear he was thinking ... you stupid lady... I am wearing the shoes...

I know I have nothing to go on regarding this but his facical expression just seemed too damn smug!

I thought the same exact thing! And they were certainly old enough by then to qualify. What better way to hide shoes with evidence, than to always keep them on your feet? Those shoes were DISTRESSED. That's not his dress style, in my opinon.

there is something buried somewhere in all of this that is important, but what? maybe he thinks that he bleached the shoes and now there is no blood evidence or something???

He knows that there is DNA on them, but nobody else (except for Paulus, Anita, etc.?) does...This persistent proof of foul play with Natalee is constantly on his mind...nibbling away..so therefore, HE brings up this subject from his sub-concious, as the subject of his shoes is way off the wall and would have no bearing. He's covering his conciousness of guilt and at the same time, making us aware of it.

Exactly!!!!!!!!! Agree that there is DNA, but I think Satish has the shoes because he wanted too hard to bring that into the Greta interview about the shoes and Satish not giving him time to go back and get them and then Greta's question to him as to whether he thought Satish might have gone back and he never really answered it.  He was planting seeds, sorry seeds from a sorry mind borne of two sorry people.

Now to me, the other reason I think he really was wearing the said shoes during Greta, is because he embroiders TOO MUCH with his Satish shoe tale...there us way too much information volunteered by him for it to be real. I also thought he impishly enjoyed throwing around Satish's name over the airwaves, delighting in the angst it would cause Satish when word finally got back to Satish.  He sees Satish as the weakest and bullies love to taunt those they consider weak. He was toying with Satish I think.

[thirdstrike]

Well my job here is done now!

Will check back later.

Ok man!  Be that way...leaving me with all these beautiful women!!  Wait...nevermind!  Be on your way...

are we discussing shoes...or fannies and spankings here??!!

I guess either one is fine with me...as long as we're not talking about being spanked with a size 14 K-Swiss!  My bad...I meant a size 10.5...

[Ono]

[quote="Tylergal
The "hit her head" was the first week, before they were ever arrested.  They said they took her to the Holiday Inn, she fell and hit her head and black security guard(s) dressed in black pants and black shirts took charge of her after she told them she could get up by herself, so they drove away leaving her in the charge of the now non-existent "black security guards dressed in black."

That was the reason for the arrest of Jones & Johns.

Sorry if this is discussed further up -- I'm back a few pages

Yes Tylergal. I know what 'they' said. And what has been discussed for months. I remember my sick feeling the first time I heard it. I just can't remember when the first time was and by whom.

I have not been able to find a statement by any of the 3 boys that said she hit her head.

Yes -- she fell. Yes -- she denied their offer of help. Yes -- she stumbled her way into the HI.

I can't find a statement whehere one fo the 3 says 'she hit her head'.

Doesn't mean it's not there -- just means I can't find it. Perhaps you have one??

It's there.  I think maybe Klaas can find it.  I read it just this week.  Also, she fell while swimming and hit her head.  There is something about the head being hit in case her body was ever found.[/quote]

I too, remember the 'hitting head' business....right at the very first.

[flyingmermaid]

Well my job here is done now!

Will check back later.

Ok man!  Be that way...leaving me with all these beautiful women!!  Wait...nevermind!  Be on your way...

are we discussing shoes...or fannies and spankings here??!!

I guess either one is fine with me...as long as we're not talking about being spanked with a size 14 K-Swiss!  My bad...I meant a size 10.5...

Lala's is gonna write you up!

[Anna]

[It's there.  I think maybe Klaas can find it.  I read it just this week.  Also, she fell while swimming and hit her head.  There is something about the head being hit in case her body was ever found.

Joran was telling at school immediately that Natalee hit her head swimming and then he and the K2 said she fell getting out of the car at the HI and hit her head again which is what makes it so glaring, both stories involve hitting her head.  Also it would be pretty difficult for a person conscious to fall and hit their head as reflexes tend to normally prevent that.  Not saying every time but most of the time.  We will put out hands to stop a fall and end up on hands and knees if not impaired.  Even a faint tends to have knees bend to protect the head.  Now I have fainted before and fell flat on my face (ouch!) but am saying normally the head is not what hits, the hands stop the fall.

.

,

[Shell]

Good day all you monkeys!

What strikes me today, is that all these months this case has been sliced and diced here and it still points to J K2 every time it is put together. It's as tho we have solved the case and have no way to make LE get on with the arresting of the obvious perps. They know as much and no doubt way more than we do, but they refuse to act on the gathered information. Who has the authority to force these people to piece this case together and really bring justice? I just feel like we are running in circles. I apologize for being so pessimistic, maybe it's just one of those days for me.

[klaasend]

Mrs. Red,
Oh, I agree completely that Joran was smirking and lying through his teeth about the shoes in the interview.  For one thing the Size 14 Swiss K's don't exist since he wears a Size 10.5, so I do think thise were his Swiss K's from that time period.  However, it was reported he still had a large cut on his left foot almost two weeks later when arrested so I still think there is something about his shoes of that night but just think he was NOT wearing the ones he claimed he was, was totally different pair or something.  

The cut on his left foot came from something and don't think Sporter goes barefoot that much.

.

there has to be something about the shoes... but what is it?  Do I remember correctly that ALE stated he had blood on his shoe??

Yes...there has to be something about the shoes, as why else would a subject so obtuse & remote to this situation even come up? He's wearing them as they have DNA on them, and pretended from the 'get-go' that one was lost, etc. to obscure that fact, I think.

I am also of the train of thought that there's some relevance to the show issue.  Just not sure how relevant...

I wish I had copies of the CA and greta interviews... I think he slips in some obscure details that are true to show how smart he is by getting away with this so far... but he will slip up.... it may not be a crime in Holland to rape someone... or maybe it's not that biga deal... (judging by the punishments) but he will rape again and it will be someone who has more power there than pvds... or something... the whole we did this 20x.....

Mrs. Red - I think I have copies of both

[Tylergal]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html

[thirdstrike]

Well my job here is done now!

Will check back later.

Ok man!  Be that way...leaving me with all these beautiful women!!  Wait...nevermind!  Be on your way...

are we discussing shoes...or fannies and spankings here??!!

I guess either one is fine with me...as long as we're not talking about being spanked with a size 14 K-Swiss!  My bad...I meant a size 10.5...

Lala's is gonna write you up!

Me and Lala's have what you'd call an understabding.  She let's me be me, and I let her threaten to put me in her book!    Works out for both of us...

Besides, would you want a "tamer" ThirdStrike?  Wouldn't that be a little boring??  

[Ono]

.
Yes, there is something off about the shoes but we can't figure out what it is.  We know Joran told Inspector Tromp that he lost his Size 14 SwissK's and that they were brand new.   Later he said he just left them because they were old.

I don't think he was wearing his SwissK's but some other pair of shoes like his Size 10.5 Nikes that Satish has a pair just like thence he decided it would be double insurance to have Satish be the one picking him up in case anything ever came of the shoe story.

But I don't know what is wrong with the shoes but something is.  Why say you wear 14 when you only wear 10.5 for one thing.  Unless, of course, he has heard the theory about big men with small feet, lol.  

I am of the opinion that neither size is his, but if I was to choose from the two, I would say 14 would be more logical...he is an enormous guy. My mind keeps returning to when I worked in a shoe boutique and we ordered large shoes for a local high school football player..his foot was so large, we had to special order his Cole Haans.

[Carnut]

Good day all you monkeys!

What strikes me today, is that all these months this case has been sliced and diced here and it still points to J K2 every time it is put together. It's as tho we have solved the case and have no way to make LE get on with the arresting of the obvious perps. They know as much and no doubt way more than we do, but they refuse to act on the gathered information. Who has the authority to force these people to piece this case together and really bring justice? I just feel like we are running in circles. I apologize for being so pessimistic, maybe it's just one of those days for me.

I'm of the mind that KJ is the one holding up the show.

[JuJu]

Hey Monkeys!

I was just reading on at Aruba's Silence.  Do any of you know what she is saying about a "7 year old boy"?

[Shell]

Good day all you monkeys!

What strikes me today, is that all these months this case has been sliced and diced here and it still points to J K2 every time it is put together. It's as tho we have solved the case and have no way to make LE get on with the arresting of the obvious perps. They know as much and no doubt way more than we do, but they refuse to act on the gathered information. Who has the authority to force these people to piece this case together and really bring justice? I just feel like we are running in circles. I apologize for being so pessimistic, maybe it's just one of those days for me.

I'm of the mind that KJ is the one holding up the show.

Yes, but she can only present what information the police give her, and what if they are withholding some very valuable and incriminating facts they have gathered about the case (which in my opinion they most assuredly have done)

[Anna]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html

From the above:

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: The first story -- and you know, Nancy, I was not in the group when they were giving this information. Jug and the rest of the group that flew in with us were there. But he was stating that he had dropped Natalee off, and that he and Deepak and Satish had dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, when she got out of the car she stumbled, fell, hit her head, got up, and two security guards met her there at the entrance.

.

[Carnut]

Good day all you monkeys!

What strikes me today, is that all these months this case has been sliced and diced here and it still points to J K2 every time it is put together. It's as tho we have solved the case and have no way to make LE get on with the arresting of the obvious perps. They know as much and no doubt way more than we do, but they refuse to act on the gathered information. Who has the authority to force these people to piece this case together and really bring justice? I just feel like we are running in circles. I apologize for being so pessimistic, maybe it's just one of those days for me.

I'm of the mind that KJ is the one holding up the show.

Yes, but she can only present what information the police give her, and what if they are withholding some very valuable and incriminating facts they have gathered about the case (which in my opinion they most assuredly have done)

KJ isn't getting what she dosen't ask for.

The coverup begins and ends with Van Der Stratten and KJ.

[Shell]

If Natalee indeed fell and hit her head, would it be correct to speculate that she could have died from internal bleeding from a hit on the head, without there being copious amounts of blood?

[ldstlou]

Well my job here is done now!

Will check back later.

Ok man!  Be that way...leaving me with all these beautiful women!!  Wait...nevermind!  Be on your way...

are we discussing shoes...or fannies and spankings here??!!

I guess either one is fine with me...as long as we're not talking about being spanked with a size 14 K-Swiss!  My bad...I meant a size 10.5...

too too funny!! first time I have seen your humorous side 3rd strike!!

[ldstlou]

[quote="Tylergal
The "hit her head" was the first week, before they were ever arrested.  They said they took her to the Holiday Inn, she fell and hit her head and black security guard(s) dressed in black pants and black shirts took charge of her after she told them she could get up by herself, so they drove away leaving her in the charge of the now non-existent "black security guards dressed in black."

That was the reason for the arrest of Jones & Johns.

Sorry if this is discussed further up -- I'm back a few pages

Yes Tylergal. I know what 'they' said. And what has been discussed for months. I remember my sick feeling the first time I heard it. I just can't remember when the first time was and by whom.

I have not been able to find a statement by any of the 3 boys that said she hit her head.

Yes -- she fell. Yes -- she denied their offer of help. Yes -- she stumbled her way into the HI.

I can't find a statement whehere one fo the 3 says 'she hit her head'.

Doesn't mean it's not there -- just means I can't find it. Perhaps you have one??

I agree..where is Klaas...I miss her brilliance!!
It's there.  I think maybe Klaas can find it.  I read it just this week.  Also, she fell while swimming and hit her head.  There is something about the head being hit in case her body was ever found.

I too, remember the 'hitting head' business....right at the very first.[/quote]

[Ono]

Good day all you monkeys!

What strikes me today, is that all these months this case has been sliced and diced here and it still points to J K2 every time it is put together. It's as tho we have solved the case and have no way to make LE get on with the arresting of the obvious perps. They know as much and no doubt way more than we do, but they refuse to act on the gathered information. Who has the authority to force these people to piece this case together and really bring justice? I just feel like we are running in circles. I apologize for being so pessimistic, maybe it's just one of those days for me.

I don't see you as being a pessimist at all..I see you as a realist. Look at the charades we have seen paraded in front of us on the Aruban stage this past year...Anti-climatic is putting it mildly. It smacks of a clumsy vaudeville show from the old days, or some crumby black & white B-movie from the thirties.

[ldstlou]

Well my job here is done now!

Will check back later.

Ok man!  Be that way...leaving me with all these beautiful women!!  Wait...nevermind!  Be on your way...

are we discussing shoes...or fannies and spankings here??!!

I guess either one is fine with me...as long as we're not talking about being spanked with a size 14 K-Swiss!  My bad...I meant a size 10.5...

Lala's is gonna write you up!

careful...might get "poofed"!! just kidding...as I said..boys will be boys!!