Lively Case Discussion #488 7/6 - 7/7/2006

[klaasend]

Mrs. Red was looking for the Current Affair and Greta interviews, I put them both in their own threads:

Greta:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=56

Current Affair:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=55

[ldstlou]

well Monkeys...phone duty up so off to pick up my little guy from babaysitter. Good discussions IMO...and 3rd strike...you brought the "rose color" (blush) to my face a few times today!! haha Talk to you all tonight!!

[sharon]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html

From the above:

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: The first story -- and you know, Nancy, I was not in the group when they were giving this information. Jug and the rest of the group that flew in with us were there. But he was stating that he had dropped Natalee off, and that he and Deepak and Satish had dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, when she got out of the car she stumbled, fell, hit her head, got up, and two security guards met her there at the entrance.

.

Thanks Tylergal & Anna!

Beth might be the first mention of this.  And it's from the very first night that Beth arrived. And I'm guessing it came from Jug or one of his friends that was with him.

I need to go check jvds's interview & transcripts again.

Thanks again. I couldn't remember where it came from.

[ldstlou]

Mrs. Red was looking for the Current Affair and Greta interviews, I put them both in their own threads:

Greta:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=56

Current Affair:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=55

there's our hero!! talk to you all tonight!!

[Tylergal]

Mrs. Red was looking for the Current Affair and Greta interviews, I put them both in their own threads:

Greta:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=56

Current Affair:
http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=55

Thanks, Klaas.  I am not only going to read but save these, like you did.

[thirdstrike]

well Monkeys...phone duty up so off to pick up my little guy from babaysitter. Good discussions IMO...and 3rd strike...you brought the "rose color" (blush) to my face a few times today!! haha Talk to you all tonight!!

Good to talk to you Idstlou!  Hope we can do it again sometime...

Be good!

[ldstlou]

well Monkeys...phone duty up so off to pick up my little guy from babaysitter. Good discussions IMO...and 3rd strike...you brought the "rose color" (blush) to my face a few times today!! haha Talk to you all tonight!!

Good to talk to you Idstlou!  Hope we can do it again sometime...

Be good!

ahh haa!!! there's a joke there too!! GOTCHA!!! at your own game!! I know I know...not as embarrassing for men!! haha

[thirdstrike]

well Monkeys...phone duty up so off to pick up my little guy from babaysitter. Good discussions IMO...and 3rd strike...you brought the "rose color" (blush) to my face a few times today!! haha Talk to you all tonight!!

Good to talk to you Idstlou!  Hope we can do it again sometime...

Be good!

ahh haa!!! there's a joke there too!! GOTCHA!!! at your own game!! I know I know...not as embarrassing for men!! haha

It's not a real "gotcha" if you intentionally left that one open for your interpretations Idstlou!   Glad I could oblige you though...

[klaasend]

Reminder for tomorrow:



This Saturday Dana's guest will be Art Wood

No Sunday show this week, I will be doing a Saturday show July 8th at 10pm est.
Guest - Art Wood Part 2 Of Our Discussion On the Holloway case.

http://bruinfan.sasktelwebsite.net/

Scroll down to Click here for a 16k Media Player Stream

Call in number before and after the interview is 306-842-7884

[Buckeye]

AZSunny

If you check in....the test is very controlled.  The medicine in the IV starts slow and titrates (increases) slow.  It can be stopped at any time and leaves your system quickly.  When they want to see how the heart works under exercise, and someone can not walk (you have a leg problem), they use a drug to mimic the "stress" a good brisk walk would have on your heart.  They will watch you every minute.  I've seen some pretty sick people have this test and they control the dosing very well.  Good luck.  I'm glad you have someone that is interested in getting to the bottom of your problems.  Women don't have classic symptoms of heart issues sometimes. Unfortunately, many doctors ignore them.

Carnut

I've never read that beta blockers cause diabetes.  Beta blockers can mask or hide the symptoms a diabetic gets when his sugar is high or low (hunger, sweating...).  The drug is a standard of care for anyone with heart disease...many of whom are diabetic.  I would be interested in reading the article if you can possibly post the source.  TIA

Here's the story I read:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/29/hypertension.diabetes/index.html

That study was from 2000 and I believe has been discounted.  I checked a little today and beta blockers decrease mortality rate with diabetics.  ACE inhibitors (enalapril, captopril) are renal protective for a diabetic, but I believe beta blockers have been shown to improve outcomes, in the most recent studies.

[Tylergal]

AZSunny

If you check in....the test is very controlled.  The medicine in the IV starts slow and titrates (increases) slow.  It can be stopped at any time and leaves your system quickly.  When they want to see how the heart works under exercise, and someone can not walk (you have a leg problem), they use a drug to mimic the "stress" a good brisk walk would have on your heart.  They will watch you every minute.  I've seen some pretty sick people have this test and they control the dosing very well.  Good luck.  I'm glad you have someone that is interested in getting to the bottom of your problems.  Women don't have classic symptoms of heart issues sometimes. Unfortunately, many doctors ignore them.

Carnut

I've never read that beta blockers cause diabetes.  Beta blockers can mask or hide the symptoms a diabetic gets when his sugar is high or low (hunger, sweating...).  The drug is a standard of care for anyone with heart disease...many of whom are diabetic.  I would be interested in reading the article if you can possibly post the source.  TIA

Here's the story I read:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/29/hypertension.diabetes/index.html

That study was from 2000 and I believe has been discounted.  I checked a little today and beta blockers decrease mortality rate with diabetics.  ACE inhibitors (enalapril, captopril) are renal protective for a diabetic, but I believe beta blockers have been shown to improve outcomes, in the most recent studies.

Asthma and other conditions are certainly reasons not to take beta blockers.  Beta blockers cause some degree of diuresis that could lead to loss of sodium and potassium, but all antihypertensive/cardiac drugs, for the most part, can do this, especially those like Lasix/hctz. Some of the loss of fluid can mask symptoms of diabetes.  

There are risks to any drug.  Patients are wise to know the side effects and reoprt any of them to their doctor.  I have difficulty taking aspirin for reasons I will not discuss here but know there is no magic bullet and no 100% safe drug.  To pretend there is gives the legal eagles more ammunition to sue.  If lawyers are not brought under control, soon are medical profession will be on par with the worst.

[spooky112483]

I'm at work but was just thinking... How long had Joran been left in Aruba by himself? Paulus had been in NL for awhile, right? And Anita and the bro's joined him up there for a family reunion or something, right? So when did Anita leave? How long was Joran left alone? The PIMPs don't need the Mill Resort when they have the VDS pad. So they have everything all set up in Joran's apartment or even all throughout the house (also assuming they were doing some videoing) and PIMPs just had a blast at the VDS pad the whole time Anita was away. Maybe this built their confidence, like they felt they could get away with more at home rather then in the hotel rooms. So Freddy was there with his camera and Paulus didn't care what they were doing, maybe he was excited about joing in while Anita was away. I just wonder what the hell had been going on in the house the whole time Joran had been left all alone?

[Buckeye]

Buckeye,  thanks for your thouhts.  I completed the test this morning, and I came through fine.  Not preliminary evidence of any heart blockage.  I am certainly glad it is over, but  it was less impactful than what I had created in my mind!  LOL

I'm so glad.  I thought of you all day.

[Tylergal]

Joran van der Sloot: No, I don’t blame her at all for what she is doing. I don’t blame her at all. But, during the period I was in jail, I wanted to talk to her, I was willing to talk to her. My lawyer told me it wasn't the best thing to do, because she can say, I told her anything. And yeah, so, I didn’t talk to her. And now, I don’t feel like talking to her at all, because look at what she is doing to a beautiful island with a hundred thousand people on it that rely on tourism and she's boycotting an island that can have consequences for one hundred thousand people. Which, for me, it makes no sense at all.

He thinks Beth should not blame Aruba.  Who is she to blame?  Well, Beth knows and Joran knows, and he is trying to play pretty here and blame Beth for the boycott instead of assuming responsibility for what he did.  His sleezy parents coached him to do this with the help of Steve Cohen.  It backfired.  No one believes him.  Even the Refugees don't believe him.  They are just there trying to occupy space, time and make whatever they can off the islanders who are paying through the nose for this coverup.

[thirdstrike]

I'm at work but was just thinking... How long had Joran been left in Aruba by himself? Paulus had been in NL for awhile, right? And Anita and the bro's joined him up there for a family reunion or something, right? So when did Anita leave? How long was Joran left alone? The PIMPs don't need the Mill Resort when they have the VDS pad. So they have everything all set up in Joran's apartment or even all throughout the house (also assuming they were doing some videoing) and PIMPs just had a blast at the VDS pad the whole time Anita was away. Maybe this built their confidence, like they felt they could get away with more at home rather then in the hotel rooms. So Freddy was there with his camera and Paulus didn't care what they were doing, maybe he was excited about joing in while Anita was away. I just wonder what the hell had been going on in the house the whole time Joran had been left all alone?

Hell, it don't really matter if he was alone, or they were there all along!  Joran's parents have absolutely no idea what their kids do...even at 4 in the morning...

[San]

I'm at work but was just thinking... How long had Joran been left in Aruba by himself? Paulus had been in NL for awhile, right? And Anita and the bro's joined him up there for a family reunion or something, right? So when did Anita leave? How long was Joran left alone? The PIMPs don't need the Mill Resort when they have the VDS pad. So they have everything all set up in Joran's apartment or even all throughout the house (also assuming they were doing some videoing) and PIMPs just had a blast at the VDS pad the whole time Anita was away. Maybe this built their confidence, like they felt they could get away with more at home rather then in the hotel rooms. So Freddy was there with his camera and Paulus didn't care what they were doing, maybe he was excited about joing in while Anita was away. I just wonder what the hell had been going on in the house the whole time Joran had been left all alone?

It could very well be spooky.  Joran probably told his father what he had been doing while the family was away and Paulus said to him really son do you think dear old dad can get in on the action.  Joran said sure dad I'll even let you pick one out for yourself.  Enter the casino video and there is their next target sitting there so innocently which was Natalee.

[Shell]

Buckeye,  thanks for your thouhts.  I completed the test this morning, and I came through fine.  Not preliminary evidence of any heart blockage.  I am certainly glad it is over, but  it was less impactful than what I had created in my mind!  LOL

I'm so glad.  I thought of you all day.

AZ...I have had that test several times. The first time I had the test, they told me all was fine and 6 months later I had a heart attack. My point is, just because they say it is ok, if you feel like something is wrong, get to the Doc or ER. I do not mean to worry you, my intent is to inform you. I did not read back on any symptoms you might be having, just jumping in here.

[Buckeye]

[It's there.  I think maybe Klaas can find it.  I read it just this week.  Also, she fell while swimming and hit her head.  There is something about the head being hit in case her body was ever found.

Joran was telling at school immediately that Natalee hit her head swimming and then he and the K2 said she fell getting out of the car at the HI and hit her head again which is what makes it so glaring, both stories involve hitting her head.  Also it would be pretty difficult for a person conscious to fall and hit their head as reflexes tend to normally prevent that.  Not saying every time but most of the time.  We will put out hands to stop a fall and end up on hands and knees if not impaired.  Even a faint tends to have knees bend to protect the head.  Now I have fainted before and fell flat on my face (ouch!) but am saying normally the head is not what hits, the hands stop the fall.

.

,

I remember that early story from the school headmaster.

Wasn't there also an early story about her climbing the gate and falling and hitting her head??

[SunFreak2]

Another thing that I was thinking (to add to this very eloquent theory Scarlett has brought forth) is that maybe during this "video session" of Natalee being raped, she possibly could have gained consciousness, and began to fight back...possibly even threatening to go to the authorities.  At that point, it's quite likely that the collective of suspects decided to silence her forever...

Or heaven forbid, decided to turn it into a snuff film.  Then sold it to a company that deals exclusively with such films.  Maybe Paulus was hand delivering it in Miami or Posner was.  Those kind of videos are very selectively distributed.  The viewer would not report the subject matter b/c it is exremely illegal to even possess such a video.  

[Shell]

Maybe we should have a health thread, entitled, "Let's play Doctor"