Lively Case Discussion #488 7/6 - 7/7/2006

[Houdini]

Shell wrote:

Maybe we should have a health thread, entitled, "Let's play Doctor

Don't let Thirdstrike hear you say that!

[SunFreak2]

Well...gotta run!! Off to the office (YUCK!!)
Read earlier where someone went to NHI for rare disease..so sorry...have been speed reading and not real thorough!! If meant NIH instead (National Institute of Health) instead and need any help or special attention...please let me know. My brother is doing his post doctorate there and may be able to help. Just let me know. I know it's a HUGE place w/ tons of research going on...but trust me....I know from when my sister had cancer...knowing someone on the "inside" really does help get you some extra attention!!

Hi Lisa Lou.  That would be me.  I quess I was dyslexic typing last night b/c it was supposed to be NIH.  My SIL's family has very rare disease and have been tested & studied extensively at NIH.

[Tylergal]

Another thing that I was thinking (to add to this very eloquent theory Scarlett has brought forth) is that maybe during this "video session" of Natalee being raped, she possibly could have gained consciousness, and began to fight back...possibly even threatening to go to the authorities.  At that point, it's quite likely that the collective of suspects decided to silence her forever...

Or heaven forbid, decided to turn it into a snuff film.  Then sold it to a company that deals exclusively with such films.  Maybe Paulus was hand delivering it in Miami or Posner was.  Those kind of videos are very selectively distributed.  The viewer would not report the subject matter b/c it is exremely illegal to even possess such a video.  

I have thought of this all along and they could superimpose a face on the body, since this is such a noted case, the reason I referred to "September Morn."

[San]

I remember that early story from the school headmaster.

Wasn't there also an early story about her climbing the gate and falling and hitting her head??

Yes there was a story like that.

[Shell]

Another thing that I was thinking (to add to this very eloquent theory Scarlett has brought forth) is that maybe during this "video session" of Natalee being raped, she possibly could have gained consciousness, and began to fight back...possibly even threatening to go to the authorities.  At that point, it's quite likely that the collective of suspects decided to silence her forever...

Or heaven forbid, decided to turn it into a snuff film.  Then sold it to a company that deals exclusively with such films.  Maybe Paulus was hand delivering it in Miami or Posner was.  Those kind of videos are very selectively distributed.  The viewer would not report the subject matter b/c it is exremely illegal to even possess such a video.  

An aside story. One time my daughter told me about some gross film she had seen where some guy was being tortured and killed. She was very upset over it, as you can imagine. Well, I told her to get the copy of the video and I passed it on to my Dad who had FBI connections. They viewed the video with their enhancements, and said it was a hoax, staged, and was not what it appeared to be. I sure wish my Dad were still alive~I have lots of questions he could help answer.

[Tylergal]

I'm at work but was just thinking... How long had Joran been left in Aruba by himself? Paulus had been in NL for awhile, right? And Anita and the bro's joined him up there for a family reunion or something, right? So when did Anita leave? How long was Joran left alone? The PIMPs don't need the Mill Resort when they have the VDS pad. So they have everything all set up in Joran's apartment or even all throughout the house (also assuming they were doing some videoing) and PIMPs just had a blast at the VDS pad the whole time Anita was away. Maybe this built their confidence, like they felt they could get away with more at home rather then in the hotel rooms. So Freddy was there with his camera and Paulus didn't care what they were doing, maybe he was excited about joing in while Anita was away. I just wonder what the hell had been going on in the house the whole time Joran had been left all alone?

It could very well be spooky.  Joran probably told his father what he had been doing while the family was away and Paulus said to him really son do you think dear old dad can get in on the action.  Joran said sure dad I'll even let you pick one out for yourself.  Enter the casino video and there is their next target sitting there so innocently which was Natalee.

I don't think Paulus was in Holland.  I think it was ony Anita and the two little sporters.  I think if Paulus went to Holland, or wherever he went, maybe to Florida, as we have no proof whatsoever he went to Holland, that he either went to Holland to take Anita or try to convince her to return, or he took her and "good riddance."  If he went to Florida or elsewhere, he could be setting up a snuff film.  Joran gets caught in his lie about his brothers being at home.

Why would Anita take the two little sporters to Holland when it was time for their final exams at schoool, unless she was planning on relocating with them.  I think she had left him and the only reason she came back was to deflect some of the mess her gigolo and Baby Huey had gotten themselves into.  I think she was told to come back.

[San]

Another thing that I was thinking (to add to this very eloquent theory Scarlett has brought forth) is that maybe during this "video session" of Natalee being raped, she possibly could have gained consciousness, and began to fight back...possibly even threatening to go to the authorities.  At that point, it's quite likely that the collective of suspects decided to silence her forever...

Or heaven forbid, decided to turn it into a snuff film.  Then sold it to a company that deals exclusively with such films.  Maybe Paulus was hand delivering it in Miami or Posner was.  Those kind of videos are very selectively distributed.  The viewer would not report the subject matter b/c it is exremely illegal to even possess such a video.  

Paulus was in Florida visiting Freddy's older brother who we all know said you have to have connections to make it.  He has the connections.

[Houdini]

Tylergal wrote:

I have thought of this all along and they could superimpose a face on the body, since this is such a noted case, the reason I referred to "September Morn."

September Morn???????

[Tylergal]

Tylergal wrote:

I have thought of this all along and they could superimpose a face on the body, since this is such a noted case, the reason I referred to "September Morn."

September Morn???????

The famous painting.

[thirdstrike]

Another thing that I was thinking (to add to this very eloquent theory Scarlett has brought forth) is that maybe during this "video session" of Natalee being raped, she possibly could have gained consciousness, and began to fight back...possibly even threatening to go to the authorities.  At that point, it's quite likely that the collective of suspects decided to silence her forever...

Or heaven forbid, decided to turn it into a snuff film.  Then sold it to a company that deals exclusively with such films.  Maybe Paulus was hand delivering it in Miami or Posner was.  Those kind of videos are very selectively distributed.  The viewer would not report the subject matter b/c it is exremely illegal to even possess such a video.  

Well, I don't know if I go that far.  In reasearching the concept of "snuff films", the existence of such a film anywhere in the world has never been proven to this date.  Snuff films are widely known to be nothing more then urban myth...although, murder on film has occured by way of criminal activity (serial killer, etc).

That's why I truly believe that if a videotape was made of the rape, a murder would have only been captured (on film) as a result of some kind of accident...with the tape itself being ordered destroyed by those assisting in the coverup...

[thirdstrike]

Shell wrote:

Maybe we should have a health thread, entitled, "Let's play Doctor

Don't let Thirdstrike hear you say that!

You see Houdini...always trying to get me in trouble!  I'd love to be a doctor to those in need...

[Carnut]

Here's the story I read:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/HEALTH/03/29/hypertension.diabetes/index.html

That study was from 2000 and I believe has been discounted.  I checked a little today and beta blockers decrease mortality rate with diabetics.  ACE inhibitors (enalapril, captopril) are renal protective for a diabetic, but I believe beta blockers have been shown to improve outcomes, in the most recent studies.

Ah yes, that's kinda why posted the second link here:

http://www.pharmacist.com/articles/h_ts_1124.cfm

After I realized I posted the wrong link first.

[Houdini]

Thirdstrike wrote:

You see Houdini...always trying to get me in trouble! I'd love to be a doctor to those in need...

With your Interrogation, diet and fitness skills, plus your obvious bedside manner, I would be lucky to assist.

Alas, "second banana" is my lot in life.

[thirdstrike]

Another thing that I was thinking (to add to this very eloquent theory Scarlett has brought forth) is that maybe during this "video session" of Natalee being raped, she possibly could have gained consciousness, and began to fight back...possibly even threatening to go to the authorities.  At that point, it's quite likely that the collective of suspects decided to silence her forever...

Or heaven forbid, decided to turn it into a snuff film.  Then sold it to a company that deals exclusively with such films.  Maybe Paulus was hand delivering it in Miami or Posner was.  Those kind of videos are very selectively distributed.  The viewer would not report the subject matter b/c it is exremely illegal to even possess such a video.  

I have thought of this all along and they could superimpose a face on the body, since this is such a noted case, the reason I referred to "September Morn."

IMO, they wouldn't possess the type of technology needed to produce pornographic videos with special effects in them.  I find it highly unlikely that they would simply use someone else's head on Natalee's body on film...

Again, just my opinion...

[Tylergal]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0508/29/ng.01.html

From the above:

HOLLOWAY TWITTY: The first story -- and you know, Nancy, I was not in the group when they were giving this information. Jug and the rest of the group that flew in with us were there. But he was stating that he had dropped Natalee off, and that he and Deepak and Satish had dropped her off at the Holiday Inn, when she got out of the car she stumbled, fell, hit her head, got up, and two security guards met her there at the entrance.

.

Thanks Tylergal & Anna!

Beth might be the first mention of this.  And it's from the very first night that Beth arrived. And I'm guessing it came from Jug or one of his friends that was with him.

I need to go check jvds's interview & transcripts again.

Thanks again. I couldn't remember where it came from.

Beth's word is good enough for me.  I trust her before anyone else involved in this, but I guess it's just a matter of who you trust.

[thirdstrike]

Thirdstrike wrote:

You see Houdini...always trying to get me in trouble! I'd love to be a doctor to those in need...

With your Interrogation, diet and fitness skills, plus your obvious bedside manner, I would be lucky to assist.

Alas, "second banana" is my lot in life.

Houdini, give yourself a little more credit then that, ok?  Nobody is "second banana" in my book!  We're ALL frontrunners, ok?  You'd be as important to my practice as I'd be to yours...

[Buckeye]

Carnut

Thanks for link.  Let me know what your Doc says.  I'll check a little deeper.

[Tylergal]

Another thing that I was thinking (to add to this very eloquent theory Scarlett has brought forth) is that maybe during this "video session" of Natalee being raped, she possibly could have gained consciousness, and began to fight back...possibly even threatening to go to the authorities.  At that point, it's quite likely that the collective of suspects decided to silence her forever...

Or heaven forbid, decided to turn it into a snuff film.  Then sold it to a company that deals exclusively with such films.  Maybe Paulus was hand delivering it in Miami or Posner was.  Those kind of videos are very selectively distributed.  The viewer would not report the subject matter b/c it is exremely illegal to even possess such a video.  

I have thought of this all along and they could superimpose a face on the body, since this is such a noted case, the reason I referred to "September Morn."

IMO, they wouldn't possess the type of technology needed to produce pornographic videos with special effects in them.  I find it highly unlikely that they would simply use someone else's head on Natalee's body on film...

Again, just my opinion...

Third, their equipment was much more sophisticated, technology, than ours at the time and Freddy has the connections and Deepak/Steve Croes the skills.  You don't get out much, do you?

[thirdstrike]

Another thing that I was thinking (to add to this very eloquent theory Scarlett has brought forth) is that maybe during this "video session" of Natalee being raped, she possibly could have gained consciousness, and began to fight back...possibly even threatening to go to the authorities.  At that point, it's quite likely that the collective of suspects decided to silence her forever...

Or heaven forbid, decided to turn it into a snuff film.  Then sold it to a company that deals exclusively with such films.  Maybe Paulus was hand delivering it in Miami or Posner was.  Those kind of videos are very selectively distributed.  The viewer would not report the subject matter b/c it is exremely illegal to even possess such a video.  

I have thought of this all along and they could superimpose a face on the body, since this is such a noted case, the reason I referred to "September Morn."

If they were to attempt to "disguise" the fact that they had Natalee on videotape, the most likely (and easiest) way to do so is to block out her face using a mosiac effect, or black it out altogeher.  Not very difficult to do that...

[klaasend]

Another thing that I was thinking (to add to this very eloquent theory Scarlett has brought forth) is that maybe during this "video session" of Natalee being raped, she possibly could have gained consciousness, and began to fight back...possibly even threatening to go to the authorities.  At that point, it's quite likely that the collective of suspects decided to silence her forever...

Or heaven forbid, decided to turn it into a snuff film.  Then sold it to a company that deals exclusively with such films.  Maybe Paulus was hand delivering it in Miami or Posner was.  Those kind of videos are very selectively distributed.  The viewer would not report the subject matter b/c it is exremely illegal to even possess such a video.  

I have thought of this all along and they could superimpose a face on the body, since this is such a noted case, the reason I referred to "September Morn."

IMO, they wouldn't possess the type of technology needed to produce pornographic videos with special effects in them.  I find it highly unlikely that they would simply use someone else's head on Natalee's body on film...

Again, just my opinion...

No, but they could probably blur out the face.