Caylee Marie Anthony #134 5/29/09 - 6/03/09

[Cappuccino]

I'd sure like to know what is happening for the public not to get the docs anymore, did the Sunshine Law go bye bye, and we didn't hear about this? 

NoRose,JSM and I want to know if we will get to see these 200 pages?
Are they gonna go poof too?

We should, once its filed with the court it should be able to be released.   The only thing is I wonder if they will just "hold them" until the motion hearing is continued as it relates to the releasing of the jail video.

Thanks Capp.I really appreciate how you take the time to answer all of our questions.You're a good person. 

Awws...Trimm your the bees knees & adored here, definitely by me!   lubs ya

[Desdemona]

So was Mr Casey's records talked about in this hearing? TIA JSM

Just from memory, the only mention I recall was that his name was included in a list of parties (read by the judge? or Baez? can't remember) toward the end of the hearing, recapping those people whose phone records had been subpoenaed.  ICBW.

[joesamas mama]

God has blessed us with with three Lyon sisters, evidently. One is "blooded." Another is clearly a possibility. Unkown about the third but I would be willing to bet next month's rent that she is too. JMO   

Okay here is my stupid question of the evening.

Andrea's dad said she was blooded about the hillbilly dude she defended, right? So to me he is saying that is what turned her into an anti death penalty attorney?  Wasn't he charged with raping his own daughter? What does that have to do with the death penalty? Did JSM read that wrong? TIA JSM

Good question, hopefully someone has the answer to this.

No, it wasnt murder.  This creep to the highest degree thought it was his right and  "property" to rape his own daughter - o God I cant, I just cant get into graphics here BUT Lyons father was referring to Lyons being "Blooded" because despite her hatred for this guy she still defended him...Im not in agreement that it was noble by any means, in fact Im disgusted beyond beyond - it just goes to show how easily she is willing to compromise her moral fortitude

I don't think I could be a defense attorney. If I knew they were guilty, poof, no longer my client. I guess I would be like Matlock wearing the same suit and eating hotdogs instead of crab puffs and bread pudding. JMO JSM

[kimmy2]

Thanks for the link Kimmy2. 

your welcome and i hope your having a good evening trimm

[jaggard19]

To all the Monkeys, for all the love they give everyday to the missing (and sometimes forgotten)

Let The Love Flow

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZwJEY0iZCY0

Thank you all Monkeys for caring!

[Desdemona]

We should, once its filed with the court it should be able to be released.   The only thing is I wonder if they will just "hold them" until the motion hearing is continued as it relates to the releasing of the jail video.

I appeal to them as follows: (to quote a respected Monkey) "oh he77 to the NO!"   

We want docs!  We want docs!  We want docs! 

[joesamas mama]

Ms Lyons is going to make this case and use the publicity to put forward her book along with her reason for being .. removal of the Death Penalty. She will get millions of dollars in free publicity which is exactly why she took this case.
In Canada, we do not have the Death Penalty, so I don't think about the issue too much. There are some people ( law enforcemant killers, child killers, pedophiles, who are beyond rehabilitation ) who should be getting more than what they get up here but the Death penalty will never come back under any form of legislation. However, a growing segment of our population do want stiffer penalties for repeat offenders.
..
I really don't think that Casey will get the Death Penalty when she is found guilty. I also don't know what the " norm " is in Florida for cases where a young woman kills her own child. . 

We have the DP here in Texas and very few get it. Andrea Yates was truly crazy in my opinion, she didn't get it. Darlie Routier knew what she was doing and she did get the DP and deserved it. There was another lady that chopped off the arms and legs of her baby, claimed crazy and got the crazy sentence too. I can't remember her name, Schusller or something. But I think she is out now. I don't think KC will get the DP, but I do see LWOP. Glad to see you Katgram. JSM

[Kat_Gram]

There are some defense attorneys who do NOT not take certain cases.
Daniel Horowicz said he would not take this case. He also would not take on the person who murdered Sandra Cantu. I guess it depends on what your belief system is. Or what your religion is, I don't know. Or what you could stomach all day in court, because no matter what, you lay down at night and have to sleep.   

[joesamas mama]

God has blessed us with with three Lyon sisters, evidently. One is "blooded." Another is clearly a possibility. Unkown about the third but I would be willing to bet next month's rent that she is too. JMO   

Okay here is my stupid question of the evening.

Andrea's dad said she was blooded about the hillbilly dude she defended, right? So to me he is saying that is what turned her into an anti death penalty attorney?  Wasn't he charged with raping his own daughter? What does that have to do with the death penalty? Did JSM read that wrong? TIA JSM

Good question, hopefully someone has the answer to this.

Thanks No Rose. I was reading on the skinny Rachel sisters bio, all her PBS documentaries, like Frontline etc. I was just wondering did the fat one indoctrinate the skinny one or were they raised liberals by birth.

 NOTE JSM doesn't discriminate against liberals. TIA JSM

When I was reading a bio on Andrea, it said she came from a liberal family.

No!!!!!! Really?????? Who'd-a-guessed......

Also that "blooded" statement came from her father about Andrea. Maybe those kind of liberals know something we don't know. I think he may have meant she won a case, like a racecar driver and wanted some more. JMO

I have still been digging down old-memory lane for the lovers's quarrel of Casey and Bozo leaving the house after to protestor confrontation and when Casey remembered how to call 911.   

Yeah, who'd of thunked it? Keep digging Fanny, I can replay that whole scene in my head. He threw open the door, chucked the laptop at her and didn't even slam the door on her leg. Made me laugh.   

[Desdemona]

<snipped by Desi>
I have still been digging down old-memory lane for the lovers's quarrel of Casey and Bozo leaving the house after to protestor confrontation and when Casey remembered how to call 911.   

  Go Fanny! 

[BluesyGram]

God has blessed us with with three Lyon sisters, evidently. One is "blooded." Another is clearly a possibility. Unkown about the third but I would be willing to bet next month's rent that she is too. JMO   

Okay here is my stupid question of the evening.

Andrea's dad said she was blooded about the hillbilly dude she defended, right? So to me he is saying that is what turned her into an anti death penalty attorney?  Wasn't he charged with raping his own daughter? What does that have to do with the death penalty? Did JSM read that wrong? TIA JSM

Good question, hopefully someone has the answer to this.

No, it wasnt murder.  This creep to the highest degree thought it was his right and  "property" to rape his own daughter - o God I cant, I just cant get into graphics here BUT Lyons father was referring to Lyons being "Blooded" because despite her hatred for this guy she still defended him...Im not in agreement that it was noble by any means, in fact Im disgusted beyond beyond - it just goes to show how easily she is willing to compromise her moral fortitude

I keep reading about the father calling what she does/did being 'blooded'.

I call it 'completing the transaction' with the devil as to the sale of her soul to him.

[Kat_Gram]

Nice to see you too, Ms. JSM and her doggie.

[joesamas mama]

Also, what was that duces tecum thingy that Trimm posted earlier about Richard Cain. What was that about??? Capp?? Desi?? 

I'm sure Capp can provide the technicalese here, but I will add that I remember this was the very first thing mentioned at the hearing the other day.  Judge Strickland said that the Cain subpoena was being handled separately -- The subpoena filed by Baez, to all the players for their phone records.  Those not opposing (like the A's) were accepting the subpoena by default.  Those whose attorneys showed up (Jesse, Amy, Krunk) were asking for limits to be placed on the scope of the phone records they would be required to produce.  The judge opened by stating that Cain's was being handled separately. 

So was Mr Casey's records talked about in this hearing? TIA JSM

No, JSM because his attorney did not object on his behalf.

Thanks Cappy, so that means that Mr Baez gets the phone records of Mr Casey. ALL of them right? If he gets them so does the SA? Right? TIA JSM

Oh, one more thing I forgot to ask, if the SA gets them then we get them and see who Mr Casey was really talking to while he was playing in the woods with his shovel, right?   

Baez will get all of their records, however, Kronk, Amy & Jesse have succeeded in limiting the scope of materiality to the case & the time frame Bozo can fish thru & just how much is yet to be determined...Bozo has until Thursday to make arrangements & agreements with the parties & then  Judge "Stan the man" Strickland will rule.  Those that did not object Bozo has a broader scope he can fish around in.   Besides having nothing to be concerned about, I'm a tad surprised that Tony Lazarro & Ricardo Morales did not thru an attorney object to the release of all their communications.

When the phone records are turned over to the State via filing with the court, technically we should be able to see them upon release.   We should at some point get to see the defense team's reciprocal discovery (obtained by them), they are just not going to release any or all of it until they absolutely have to.

Thanks Cappy. That's kind of what I figured about the relase of the phone records.

I just wonder if Tony and Ricardo don't have the money for an attorney or they just know they have nothing to hide. I know if I were in their situation, I couldn't afford an attorney and none would be provided to me as I am not being accused of a crime. It's really sad these people's lives and money are being taken away because a slore cannot just confess that she did it plain and simple. Hope that makes sense JSM

[Cappuccino]

Desi, yea I agree the topic of manner of death of a murdered child is always extremely difficult, with all the other aggravation & ridiculousness we're stressing thru in this case it doesnt make it any easier, not even for those of us that have had any experience firsthand with criminal cases.   When I worked both in the legal field & then later as an assistant to a forensic psychiatrist, many cases stuck with me to this day & I had to take consideration when I ate or slept surrounding the hours I worked on certain cases because they were brutal.   I've never been able to numb from over exposure dealing with and/or discussing the most horrid of circumstances, I guess that's why I could never be a defense attorney.  Had I had the opportunity & time to have continued my education, I would have definitely continued professionally to advocate for victims & serve on the prosecutorial side of the aisle.   No money in the world could compromise that for me, nope fortune would have to come my way thru other means....like the dang winning powerball numbers dangdabit! 

Huggs all around monkeys, we have to keep our strength because this case is going to take a good long while with much more to come.   The beauty is at least we have each other, yesterday was an aggravating & difficult one for me personally & knowing we have such a great support team here really does get ya thru it.   All of your kindnesses towards me is treasured.

[joesamas mama]

Out of left field here.

Did you all see the recent story about the two 11-year-old girls who died from carbon monoxide poisoning, when a vehicle was left running in the closed garage (they were in the house) for a long time?  Very sad story. 
http://mobile.orlandosentinel.com/inf/infomo?view=breaking_news_item&feed:a=sentinel_1min&feed:c=breakingnews&feed:i=47228542

Well, it made me think.  If a child were bound and gagged by duct tape and placed into the closed trunk of a car, and the exhaust pipe were to be blocked... and the car left running... (until it runs out of gas, maybe?  I dunno..) the child would die pretty quickly.  If the poor child's remains were bagged and dumped outdoors and not recovered until months later, skeletonized, would the bones reveal any traces of the carbon monoxide as the cause of death?  Just thinking.

Oh Lord, you're making me think.....It certainly could be a possibility and I don't think it would be detected at that point. I just wonder if we will ever know how Caylee really died. I do think there might be evidence on the duct tape that she tried to push the tape off her mouth with her tongue.....Ugh! I am making my own self ill.   

It's possible, and that would be an aggravated assault upon a minor (bound & gagged or not) which if death occurs qualifies for felony murder (murder one).   Six months later, I doubt evidence by only skeletonized bones would reveal carbon monoxide poisoning - Ill search tomorrow to see if I can find something more solid out on that.   I just don't think that was how Casey killed Caylee, I doubt Casey would put her in the trunk bound/gagged and not drugged and/or chloroformed first, again an aggravated assault upon a minor.   I'm hoping the FBI is holding on to some very strong evidence from her hair cut from the duct tape (sigh), the duct tape itself, the heart sticker found on the ground near the remains, the bagging....well you get the idea.  Technically, if they still have it and they have not written their final reports, the State cannot be blamed for not disclosing it yet (previously discussed in court several times to Bozo).  The State or the court cannot order the FBI or federal body.

I did a little desultory searching, but am starting to feel crummy again so I need to put down the keyboard!  I think you might be right, Capp, about skeletonized bones.  All the references I found to forensic evidence showing carbon monoxide poisoning was related to cases with non-decomposed bodies.  Evidence in soft tissues and bone marrow.

JSM has a good point about hair, which you also alluded to.  All I found on that was a few references to carbon monoxide evidence in the hair of non-decomposed bodies which was an indication of smoke from a fire.  If you find anything, please post it.  The admittedly far-fetched scenario prompted by that news story I read is making me sad.  I keep thinking about Casey's stories about her car running out of gas.

I don't know whether there would be any evidence of high carbon monoxide levels in the car or the trunk itself... possibly not.  Doesn't it dissipate rather quickly?

And yes, if someone were to kill a child in that manner, they probably WOULD drug/chloroform the child first, as you describe.  How terrible to imagine.  Sorry for the disturbing topic.  It just got me thinking.

Desi, my stepdad just told me he only knows if the body is intact that it would be cherry red and that would show it. He doesn't know about bones. But I will look up and see what I can find about CO poisoning. JSM

[Cappuccino]

We should, once its filed with the court it should be able to be released.   The only thing is I wonder if they will just "hold them" until the motion hearing is continued as it relates to the releasing of the jail video.

I appeal to them as follows: (to quote a respected Monkey) "oh he77 to the NO!"   

We want docs!  We want docs!  We want docs! 

[Fanny Mae]

<snipped by Desi>
I have still been digging down old-memory lane for the lovers's quarrel of Casey and Bozo leaving the house after to protestor confrontation and when Casey remembered how to call 911.   

  Go Fanny! 

Well the good news is I have found the link. The bad news is it is either archived or deleted. I am praying for archived. I hope someone may have it saved on their puter.  Praying. Still poking around....

[trimmonthelake]

<snipped by Desi>
I have still been digging down old-memory lane for the lovers's quarrel of Casey and Bozo leaving the house after to protestor confrontation and when Casey remembered how to call 911.   

  Go Fanny! 

I can't find it either.Who'd ever thought it would be so hard to find that clip?
I could really use some documents. 

[trimmonthelake]

<snipped by Desi>
I have still been digging down old-memory lane for the lovers's quarrel of Casey and Bozo leaving the house after to protestor confrontation and when Casey remembered how to call 911.   

  Go Fanny! 

Well the good news is I have found the link. The bad news is it is either archived or deleted. I am praying for archived. I hope someone may have it saved on their puter.  Praying. Still poking around....

Fanny,I found a link in some of our archives,and poof that baby is gone.I meant to ask Seemeatthebeach if she had it.
You know somebody saved it.I had it at one time.....you know how it is when you have puter problems. 

[Cappuccino]

I keep reading about the father calling what she does/did being 'blooded'.

I call it 'completing the transaction' with the devil as to the sale of her soul to him.

Very well put!    Reminds me of an old blues myth "Crossroads" (Robert Johnson-Mississippi Delta) wherein it discusses meeting a cross in the road where you sell your soul to the devil
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/wU8RCRhDXP4&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;color1=0x402061&amp;color2=0x9461ca&amp;border=1&quot;" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/wU8RCRhDXP4&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1&amp;color1=0x402061&amp;color2=0x9461ca&amp;border=1&quot;</a>
There is a movie about it starring Ralph Macchio see movie links here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJkA293zXzQ&feature=related

Parts 2 thru 12 can be found here - scroll down on right side: 
http://www.youtube.com/user/cocopeanut1#uploads