Rumsfeld

[LouiseVargas]

Rumsfeld has resigned. It is said this was discussed a month ago between Bush and Rummy in case the Dems won the midterm election. I think some of our men will be coming home soon. All I can say is:

WHERE HAVE ALL THE FLOWERS GONE
words and music by Pete Seeger

Where have all the flowers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the flowers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the flowers gone?
Girls have picked them every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the young girls gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the young girls gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the young girls gone?
Taken husbands every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the young men gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the young men gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the young men gone?
Gone for soldiers every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the soldiers gone?
Gone to graveyards every one
When will they ever learn?
When will they ever learn?

Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time passing
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Long time ago
Where have all the graveyards gone?
Covered with flowers every one
When will we ever learn?
When will we ever learn?

©1961 (Renewed) Fall River Music Inc
All Rights Reserved.

[Carnut]

Yes, Louise, today is a day of mourning for conservatives.

Reminds me of why I quit voting when Bill Clinton first got elected President, I pretty much figured our government and country were going to heck in a handbasket.

Nothing has changed my mind much since.

[Anna]

So the Democrats have had a winning plan all along and just refused to share it because of the upcoming election?

I don't think so and seriously doubt many troops come home either.  One of their brain trusts today said it might be a good idea to disarm the militia in Iraq.  Well, duh!  Like that's not what they have been trying to do all this time?  That kind of remark is just chilling to me that they can actually be so poorly informed.

The only thing I have heard concerning troop deployment and Democrats is that they would send them to Afghanistan instead of Iraq.  And that makes no sense but there and South Korea and other places abroad like Danfur in Africa seem to be primary concerns for many in the Democrat party and I think they are far more likely to just redeploy than bring many home at all.  But I do think they mislead a lot of people into thinking that they might do this to get votes.  As always.

.

[Anna]

Robert Gates for Secretary of Defense to replace Donald Rumsfeld is a brilliant move because Bush has had leaks in the CIA and also there has been so much contention between the intelligence community and the Pentagon.

Remember it was Clinton's boy George Tenet who told Bush the WMD were a slam dunk to still be in Iraq.  Bush should have replaced Tenet with Gates immediately upon taking office.  Instead he tried to work with the career people and look where it got him.

But with Gates being one of theirs, the CIA will have to stop the leaks and he will be on top of it so much better I do believe.  As a former directer of the CIA, he knows a great deal about them and how they work and can offer a better perspective on coordination of intelligence with the military.

And I do just adore those old Cold Warriors for they at least have the ability to recoginze and enemy when they see one.  That would be unlike some who hold public office these days.   I do expect him to be able to get to the bottom of the intel leaks and bring about a more positive presentation of the war in Iraq than Rumsfeld has been able to do.

In any event, I can't think of anybody better to hold this office than one who has worn the hat of boss at the CIA as well.  And I am sure Bush had a great deal of input on whom to chose but he just could not have made a better selection.

In my humble opinion only.  Will be curious to know what the little spooklings at Langley think of this as well.  Should be interesting for they can't slam one of their own nearly as easily as they did Rummy.

[Carnut]

Robert Gates for Secretary of Defense to replace Donald Rumsfeld is a brilliant move because Bush has had leaks in the CIA and also there has been so much contention between the intelligence community and the Pentagon.

Remember it was Clinton's boy George Tenet who told Bush the WMD were a slam dunk to still be in Iraq.  Bush should have replaced Tenet with Gates immediately upon taking office.  Instead he tried to work with the career people and look where it got him.

But with Gates being one of theirs, the CIA will have to stop the leaks and he will be on top of it so much better I do believe.  As a former directer of the CIA, he knows a great deal about them and how they work and can offer a better perspective on coordination of intelligence with the military.

And I do just adore those old Cold Warriors for they at least have the ability to recoginze and enemy when they see one.  That would be unlike some who hold public office these days.   I do expect him to be able to get to the bottom of the intel leaks and bring about a more positive presentation of the war in Iraq than Rumsfeld has been able to do.

In any event, I can't think of anybody better to hold this office than one who has worn the hat of boss at the CIA as well.  And I am sure Bush had a great deal of input on whom to chose but he just could not have made a better selection.

In my humble opinion only.  Will be curious to know what the little spooklings at Langley think of this as well.  Should be interesting for they can't slam one of their own nearly as easily as they did Rummy.

Did you know Gates is a former Wichita, Ks boy?

Also a bit of a 'carguy'.

[LouiseVargas]

Carnut and Anna,

George, sorry you are in mourning. Maybe if the war had gone better and more troops were on the ground, as the Generals requested, we might have had a victory over there. But Rumsfeld would not allow more troops. If he had, perhaps we would have had a Republican Congress reelected.

Nope, Anna, I never said the Democrats had a plan and refused to share it. You said that. I only said some of our troops will be coming home which is JMHO.

But the Bush administration DID HAVE a plan in the works 4-6 weeks ago that Rumsfeld would resign if the Congress went to the Democrats (so they expected to fall). Recently GW was asked if Rumsfeld would stay and Bush said he will stay until the end of the administration. Another lie. Today Bush said he was between a rock and a hard place regarding the question about Rumsfeld. He couldn't tell the truth because it would influence the election. Amazing, now Bush confesses to lying.

I am 100% anti war right now. I am pissed that None's husband got zapped by the first Iraq war. I hate that I lost friends in the Viet Nam war. And if radical Islamists take over our country, I will take myself out before they get to Hollywood.

One thing I have purposely NOT done is rub your faces in the GOP defeat. And I ask you not to even attempt to rub my face in the Democrats victory as if were something bad that happened.

In 2008, we are going to have a Democratic President. The tide changes, always. If we live long enough, the Republicans will come back into office. But now it's time for a change.

[Anna]

Well, I guess it is a matter of opinion as to whether or not you are rubbing our faces in it Louise for it sort of feels that way reading about how now that the Dems are in office everything is going to change and be better.  You also seem to think this is going to make some major difference in the war in Iraq which I also seriously doubt.  

The Democrats have no plan whatsoever as usual.  Except of course to engage in social engineering and raise taxes neither of which will impact the war in Iraq.  Many of them even refuse to acknowledge that it is a part of the War on Terror despite their attempt at crucifying Bush for not classifying Saddam's nuclear program in the papers they demanded that appeared online.

I don't share that sentiment.  I am horrified and surprised that you are not concerned that the leaders of the terrorist organizations encouraged people to vote for Democrats.  They must be dancing in the streets again.  Or at least gratified.

I would not call what Bush did lying, either, for he did not know the outcome of the election and had to assume a Republican victory in which case it would have been true.  That seems yet another form of nose rubbing.  Exaggerating as well.  Anything to tear down Bush has long been the policy of the left and I am sure it will continue throughout the next two years,  No reason to expect it to ever stop but don't be so self-righteous when we hit back.  You want to get your own digs in at conservatives without our saying anything in response it seems.

Yes, the next president will probably be a Democrat.  How about Hillary the Socialist and Obama the Muslim.  Now there's a pair that perfectly represent the good old DNC.  Nothing I can do to stop it but I don't have to like it.

One thing we can agree on is that it is like a pendulum, swings back and forth, one side to the other and it is time for it to swing to the left.  I just hope this time it doesn't involve engagement with terrorists for I don't trust the left with security issues and think we will have them on their watch.  Clinton always ignored them or labeled them accidents, etc. and went about harassment of U.S. citizens instead.  Glad I don't live in an urban area for what may well be in store a few years in the future.

.

.

[LouiseVargas]

Sorry you feel that way, Anna. That was not my intent.

[pdh3]

Anna - I believe the Democrats do have a plan. But is it the better plan? That remains to be seen.
 Bush has a golden opportunity here to be a real leader, instead of Cheney's and Rumsfeld's puppet. Imagine what he could accomplish if he could be a voice of compromise and reason. His biggest failing as a President has been to stubbornly believe he had the American people in his hands. I guess he knows that he let us slip through them now.
He is simply disconnected from the average American.
I pray that we can all rally behind Bush and this new Congress, and find a workable solution to Iraq, corruption ( not holding my breath), immigration, and all the other ills we face. The elections are over, this is what we have to work with, so make it function somehow.
Wouldn't that be the real change in Washington?

[Carnut]

Humm, now we can have compromise and workable solutions because the Dems won the congress?

Why couldn't we have had compromise and workable solutions when the GOP had the congress?

[LouiseVargas]

Car,

You would have to ask the GOP why we did not have compromise and workable solutions when they held the congress. Since they didn't, the people voted and changed the congress.

[Carnut]

Car,

You would have to ask the GOP why we did not have compromise and workable solutions when they held the congress. Since they didn't, the people voted and changed the congress.

Kinda like other activities in life, I kinda thought it took two sides to compromise.

What's changed?

[LouiseVargas]

Today Fox News pundits are upset about Bush's lack of truthfulness regarding the decision (at least 6 weeks ago) that Rumsfeld would step down if the Dems were elected to control congress. Some are even saying that if Bush would have been truthful, perhaps the GOP would still be in control of congress.

[LouiseVargas]

George,

Today I saw GW and the Congress reaching their hands out to one another.

[Carnut]

George,

Today I saw GW and the Congress reaching their hands out to one another.

Like they couldn't do that before for some reason?

Obviously the Dems are expecting the GOP to do all the compromising,

just as they have for the past 6 years.

[LouiseVargas]

In this particular situation, the Dems have control of the Congress and GW will naturally step forward and try to be a nice as possible because he cannot get anything done without their cooperation.

[Carnut]

In this particular situation, the Dems have control of the Congress and GW will naturally step forward and try to be a nice as possible because he cannot get anything done without their cooperation.

Oh, so that's what he Dem's have been waiting for, to get GW to bend to their will, eh.

[LouiseVargas]

I can't speak for the Dems.

The people voted for a change in course.

That's what happened.

[LouiseVargas]

I personally like Rumsfeld. He is so highly intelligent. I found websites with his poetry. He has a lot of fans.

THE POETRY OF DONALD H. RUMSFELD

THE UNKNOWN
As we know,
There are known knowns.
There are things we know we know.
We also know
There are known unknowns.
That is to say
We know there are some things
We do not know.
But there are also unknown unknowns,
The ones we don't know
We don't know. —Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing

THE SITUATION
Things will not be necessarily continuous.
The fact that they are something other than perfectly continuous
Ought not to be characterized as a pause.
There will be some things that people will see.
There will be some things that people won't see.
And life goes on. —Oct. 12, 2001, Department of Defense news briefing

CLARITY
I think what you'll find,
I think what you'll find is,
Whatever it is we do substantively,
There will be near-perfect clarity
As to what it is. And it will be known,
And it will be known to the Congress,
And it will be known to you,
Probably before we decide it,
But it will be known.  —Feb. 28, 2003, Department of Defense briefing

[Carnut]

I can't speak for the Dems.

The people voted for a change in course.

That's what happened.

Yeah, I just hate it when folks vote to 'lose' a war.