June 26, 2019, 01:55:16 PM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
News: NEW CHILD BOARD CREATED IN THE POLITICAL SECTION FOR THE 2016 ELECTION
 
   Home   Help Login Register  
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 »   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #542 11/11 - 11/14/2006  (Read 97734 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Tylergal
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9535



« Reply #240 on: November 12, 2006, 10:52:35 AM »

Yikes, I meant to say our former attorney general, Ramsey Clark, who worked for the nut case peanut farmer, president Carter.
Logged

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on
Tylergal
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9535



« Reply #241 on: November 12, 2006, 10:54:23 AM »

Quote from: "Sleuth"
Quote from: "klaasend"
They were originally interviewed as witnesses on May 31, 2005.  So on May 31, 2005 they were witnesses.  KJ reclassified them as suspects on June 9th when they were detained.


I agree with that.  Originally witnesses, then reclassified as suspects.

Hammer - IMO, the vunerable part is the whole first 9 days.


Simply put, Sleuth, I think the case was closed before it began, May 31, once Paulus knew.  It was done and dead, just like Natalee, perhaps before she even drew her last breath.
Logged

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on
San
Super Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15882



« Reply #242 on: November 12, 2006, 10:54:52 AM »

Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
The Holloway/Twitty entourage left the VDS residence early 5/31.  They had been in the company of ALE from Noord station.  

Refresh my memory as to why 2K gave withness statements at Bubali later that day.  Are Jacobs & Kelly associated with more than one precinct, or station house?

At this point I don't think it matters where they are stationed.  They are on Red alert just in case one of the family members arrives at one of these stations.  They have a man in place at each station to throw the Holloway/Twitty off to give them more time.


You've touched upon my thinking, here.  The HI lie was in place at this point, and the Holloway/Twitty group had already made noise at the Noord station, which I had had the impression Jacobs & Kelly were associated.  Taking the statements at Bubali can be perceived as a diversion, absolutely, especially since ALE claimed no knowledge of a missing girl, and the missing report was delayed at least to this point.  

Dave Holloway arrived 6/1, IIRC, and was told by Jacobs to go have a beer at CnC on or about that date.  Thought it was at Noord station....

I'm just looking at these occurances just as we've looked at the statements, and considering Hammer's question about the 1st 48 hours.

I believe before Dave went to the Nord station he stopped at another station and the officer there told Dave they didn't know anything about a missing girl try the other station.

Now here we have an officer saying they didn't know anything about a girl missing but there was an article in the paper about a girl missing.
Logged
2NJSons_Mom
Monkey All Star
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11324



« Reply #243 on: November 12, 2006, 10:55:39 AM »

Quote from: "Buckeye"
Not the first 48 hrs.  But what I find interesting is everything that happened the 9th-10th.  Family informed of death, Joran in his only tearful pose.  Didn't Art Wood (on Dana??) say something about a confession then by Monday (June 13th), it had all changed?? We now see the "discussion" signed by J VanderStratten involved with Joran on the 13th.  Where is Joran's real statement from the 9th-10th?? Was that the one torn up on the desk??


Good point, Buckeye.  We all realize there are statements missing, and the questioning on the statements following were lead by those mossing statements.  WTH are they?  Maybe Tylergal is right...they met with a shreadder or incinerator...Lord knows.
Logged

R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
Tylergal
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9535



« Reply #244 on: November 12, 2006, 10:56:57 AM »

Quote from: "Anna"
Quote from: "klaasend"
[Different roles.  If working per the Aruban law, Van der Stratten and Jacobs would actully take orders from KJ as far as who to bring in as a witness or suspect.  KJ also is the one who presents the documents to the judge.  Anyone want to guess if KJ neglected to give the judge some of the information?



This so concerned Dave Holloway that he made a trip to see that they were all on the same page.  When they are not on the same page by design, that is hard to address.

Yes, I would love to see what the judges were shown and what they were not and the conclusions they reached as a result.

.


Would it matter, Anna what they judges saw?  After all, these were buddies of the maggot, Paulus.  Do you remember Blacklabel?  I think he was Smit.
Logged

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on
Tylergal
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9535



« Reply #245 on: November 12, 2006, 10:58:26 AM »

Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "spooky112483"
Quote from: "klaasend"
Quote from: "the big hammer"
WASN'T JANSSEN FLOWN IN FROM HOLLAND?

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall that Janssen was flown in early from Holland to manage the case.  Can anyone confirm?

As indicated above from Klaas, on May 31, 2005, Deepak was providing a WITNESS statement, taken by Dennis Dominico JACOBS and Shaniro Baldrik KELLY.

Whatdayaknow?  FAT BOY DENNIS JACOBS, right in the middle of the action.

This is one of the doors in, and more importantly, "the way in".

Failure to perfrom, obstruction, assisting in an attempted coverup.  It was the FAT BOY who handed the papers to patsy Janssen.

.

Hammer - no, I don't think she was brought in for the case..think she was already working in Aruba.  Yep, Jacobs is part of the coverup as well, IMO.


Klaas my memory is that she was brought in. I could be wrong. But I don't think she was already in Aruba. I remember her being brought in. Fuzzy memory though. Confused


After thinking about this maybe it was because we didn't hear about her until later and that's why I "remember" her being brought in later... Confused  I don't know...I'm still leaning towards her being brought in later....ok I think it's because I "understood their laws" at that time was something about it being her "rotation" to come to Aruba...that the Dutch lawyers  were on a rotation to come to Aruba ("vacation") and they "chose" her to come at the time because she was supposed to be a hot shot at the time...does anyone remeber this or am I crazy? Laughing


She was the one who signed the order for Johns & Jones to be arrested and oversaw that, like a big bad cowgirl, whose hat fell off because she has no chin to hold it on.
Logged

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on
Tylergal
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9535



« Reply #246 on: November 12, 2006, 11:02:04 AM »

Quote from: "klaasend"
HAMMER - she may have been taking orders from someone, or under pressure, but the prosecutor is the one who decides if someone is a witness or suspect:




She was taking orders from Paulus to arrest these two "Negroes" before they blame 'my son.'
Logged

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on
shadow
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 613



« Reply #247 on: November 12, 2006, 11:08:06 AM »

I'd be interested in Jansens tenure in Aruba before Natalee disappeared. What cases if any did she prosecute, etc ... and more specifically what was her relationship to Paulus?
Logged

There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
Tylergal
Monkey All Star Jr.
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 9535



« Reply #248 on: November 12, 2006, 11:19:32 AM »

Quote from: "shadow"
I'd be interested in Jansens tenure in Aruba before Natalee disappeared. What cases if any did she prosecute, etc ... and more specifically what was her relationship to Paulus?


Were we not told when KJ went to Holland that she and Paulus shared adjoining offices?  I am not sure where we got this information, but during that time he was allowed to come and go willy nilly in that office, and surely if there was anything that needed to disappear, during her absence, he could assure it did.  

I hope we will find out what the relationship was between them but without some honesty, we will never find that out and I think honest people will be afraid to talk or never contacted.
Logged

There is always one more imbecile than you counted on
shadow
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 613



« Reply #249 on: November 12, 2006, 11:20:23 AM »

"In the persecution of criminal acts, the Public Prosecutor's Office operates completely independent from the Minister of Justice and the Government of Aruba. The Public Prosecutor's Office does not have to justify its actions with regards to the persecution of criminal acts to the Minister of Justice or the Government of Aruba."
(from Nov. 11 article on aruba.com regarding Natalee Holloway case)

Jansen may have been following orders, but it was her call and her sole reponsibility based on the above interpretation. Any idea who else makes up the public prosecutors office? Apologies if this has already been covered.
Logged

There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
Peaches
Monkey Junky
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 3539


~WE LOVE YOU PEACHES~


« Reply #250 on: November 12, 2006, 11:20:54 AM »

I'm sure if we ask Klaas nicely, she will reference something about Karin's claim to fame in the Netherlands.  I believe she got a conviction in a case where there was no body and that was considered pretty unusual.

Klaas, that's all the detail I'm good for.
Logged

"I bring my better angels to every fight".
Expect a miracle.
2NJSons_Mom
Monkey All Star
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11324



« Reply #251 on: November 12, 2006, 11:21:37 AM »

From Shizaru's timeline:

June 1: Dave Holloway arrives on Aruba. The first two polis stations he visits are unaware of Natalee's disappearance. At the Noord station, Jacobs tells him that she probably got drunk or fell in love and ran off for a few days. Jacobs advises Dave to go relax and have a beer at CnCs, that is the best place to look for her. However he also tells Dave that they should be careful to cover their drinks at CnCs because sometimes people will slip drugs in them (Family's Nov 1 letter, Dave's book)

June 1: Beth and Jug arrive at Noord police station to file missing persons report, are made to wait while Jacobs shaves and finishes his Frosted Flakes. Jug overhears polis use the word "puta" (Vanity Fair, CNN 10/3/05)

June 1: First coverage of Natalee's disappearance on cable news prograns in the US

June 1: Aruba Today editor Julia Renfro organizes the first search teams, which meet in the HI lobby following a series of radio announcements, and consist mostly of tourists. Van der Straaten is not happy that the search is taking place, and tells the group not to cause traffic problems (Vanity Fair)

June 1: Satish and Deepak seperately take polis to point out the HI dropoff spot, Satish tells them he already did so the day before but polis are unaware of that and he has to do it again. Satish tells polis that Deepak said Joran was “crazy” because he had been French kissing a girl he just met. Afterwords Deepak and Satish go meet Joran at the Raquet Club, and talk with him in front of the club for about 15 minutes. until polis arrive and take Joran to point out the dropoff spot. At about 10:30 pm Deepak and Satish go to Joran's apartment, where they tell Anita the HI lie (S 6/13, 6/24)

June 1: Anita VDSloot returns to Aruba from the Netherlands. at about 8:00 pm.

June 1 or 2: Polis put trio under surveilance (48 Hours)
Logged

R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
San
Super Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15882



« Reply #252 on: November 12, 2006, 11:27:29 AM »

Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
From Shizaru's timeline:

June 1: Dave Holloway arrives on Aruba. The first two polis stations he visits are unaware of Natalee's disappearance. At the Noord station, Jacobs tells him that she probably got drunk or fell in love and ran off for a few days. Jacobs advises Dave to go relax and have a beer at CnCs, that is the best place to look for her. However he also tells Dave that they should be careful to cover their drinks at CnCs because sometimes people will slip drugs in them (Family's Nov 1 letter, Dave's book)

This is exactly what I mean.  How did Julia Renfro know about Natalee missing before the police.

Someone printed an article or a post that Julia made on the message boards explaining all she did and how she even printed an article in the paper.
Logged
shadow
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 613



« Reply #253 on: November 12, 2006, 11:31:27 AM »

Quote from: "Peaches"
I'm sure if we ask Klaas nicely, she will reference something about Karin's claim to fame in the Netherlands.  I believe she got a conviction in a case where there was no body and that was considered pretty unusual.

Klaas, that's all the detail I'm good for.


thanks Peaches Smile
Logged

There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
shadow
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 613



« Reply #254 on: November 12, 2006, 11:33:21 AM »

Quote from: "Tylergal"
Quote from: "shadow"
I'd be interested in Jansens tenure in Aruba before Natalee disappeared. What cases if any did she prosecute, etc ... and more specifically what was her relationship to Paulus?


Were we not told when KJ went to Holland that she and Paulus shared adjoining offices?  I am not sure where we got this information, but during that time he was allowed to come and go willy nilly in that office, and surely if there was anything that needed to disappear, during her absence, he could assure it did.  

I hope we will find out what the relationship was between them but without some honesty, we will never find that out and I think honest people will be afraid to talk or never contacted.


I thought I remembered something about offices in the same building, possiblly adjoining, but wasn't sure. I agree.
Logged

There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
klaasend
Administrator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 74250



WWW
« Reply #255 on: November 12, 2006, 11:34:31 AM »

Quote from: "Peaches"
I'm sure if we ask Klaas nicely, she will reference something about Karin's claim to fame in the Netherlands.  I believe she got a conviction in a case where there was no body and that was considered pretty unusual.

Klaas, that's all the detail I'm good for.


That's about all I remember as well.

FYI - Need to shut our power down so I'll be offline for a couple hours!
Logged
2NJSons_Mom
Monkey All Star
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 11324



« Reply #256 on: November 12, 2006, 11:37:40 AM »

Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
From Shizaru's timeline:

June 1: Dave Holloway arrives on Aruba. The first two polis stations he visits are unaware of Natalee's disappearance. At the Noord station, Jacobs tells him that she probably got drunk or fell in love and ran off for a few days. Jacobs advises Dave to go relax and have a beer at CnCs, that is the best place to look for her. However he also tells Dave that they should be careful to cover their drinks at CnCs because sometimes people will slip drugs in them (Family's Nov 1 letter, Dave's book)

This is exactly what I mean.  How did Julia Renfro know about Natalee missing before the police.

Someone printed an article or a post that Julia made on the message boards explaining all she did and how she even printed an article in the paper.


Yep, that's why I brought it over.  Also, states that VanderStraaten is unhappy with JR's search, worried about traffic....Anita returns, knows what's going on, and has meeting that night with 2K.  Surveillance begins, where is that info?  All we've seen is the phone & computer records.  The car interior had to have been changed during this time frame.  Rudy said there was blood....later found to be Dutch chocolate and cleaning fluid.  

As Mark Furhman & many others have stated,  routine detective work was not done during those crucial first hours, and the folly continued thereafter.
Logged

R.I.P Dear 2NJ - say hi to Peaches for us!

I expect a miracle _Peaches ~ ~ May She Rest In Peace.

SOMEONE KNOWS THE TRUTH  

None of us here just fell off the turnip truck. - Magnolia
shadow
Monkey Junky Jr.
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 613



« Reply #257 on: November 12, 2006, 11:42:09 AM »

Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
From Shizaru's timeline:

June 1: Dave Holloway arrives on Aruba. The first two polis stations he visits are unaware of Natalee's disappearance. At the Noord station, Jacobs tells him that she probably got drunk or fell in love and ran off for a few days. Jacobs advises Dave to go relax and have a beer at CnCs, that is the best place to look for her. However he also tells Dave that they should be careful to cover their drinks at CnCs because sometimes people will slip drugs in them (Family's Nov 1 letter, Dave's book)

This is exactly what I mean.  How did Julia Renfro know about Natalee missing before the police.

Someone printed an article or a post that Julia made on the message boards explaining all she did and how she even printed an article in the paper.


Yep, that's why I brought it over.  Also, states that VanderStraaten is unhappy with JR's search, worried about traffic....Anita returns, knows what's going on, and has meeting that night with 2K.  Surveillance begins, where is that info?  All we've seen is the phone & computer records.  The car interior had to have been changed during this time frame.  Rudy said there was blood....later found to be Dutch chocolate and cleaning fluid.  

As Mark Furhman & many others have stated,  routine detective work was not done during those crucial first hours, and the folly continued thereafter.


Really that quote from Shirazus timeline is quite telling. Almost as if Jacob's is hinting at what happened to Natalee . . . cover your drinks. WTF!
Logged

There is a basin in the mind where words float around on thought and sound and sight. Then there is a depth of thought untouched by words, and deeper still a gulf of formless feelings untouched by thought. - Zora Neal Hurston
klaasend
Administrator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 74250



WWW
« Reply #258 on: November 12, 2006, 11:47:47 AM »

Will be back online in a couple hours hopefully!!  See you all later!
Logged
San
Super Moderator
Monkey Mega Star
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 15882



« Reply #259 on: November 12, 2006, 12:35:23 PM »

Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
From Shizaru's timeline:

June 1: Dave Holloway arrives on Aruba. The first two polis stations he visits are unaware of Natalee's disappearance. At the Noord station, Jacobs tells him that she probably got drunk or fell in love and ran off for a few days. Jacobs advises Dave to go relax and have a beer at CnCs, that is the best place to look for her. However he also tells Dave that they should be careful to cover their drinks at CnCs because sometimes people will slip drugs in them (Family's Nov 1 letter, Dave's book)

This is exactly what I mean.  How did Julia Renfro know about Natalee missing before the police.

Someone printed an article or a post that Julia made on the message boards explaining all she did and how she even printed an article in the paper.


Yep, that's why I brought it over.  Also, states that VanderStraaten is unhappy with JR's search, worried about traffic....Anita returns, knows what's going on, and has meeting that night with 2K.  Surveillance begins, where is that info?  All we've seen is the phone & computer records.  The car interior had to have been changed during this time frame.  Rudy said there was blood....later found to be Dutch chocolate and cleaning fluid.  

As Mark Furhman & many others have stated,  routine detective work was not done during those crucial first hours, and the folly continued thereafter.


I think Anita knew the whole deal before she arrived home.  She knew all this took place in her home.  I also believe that while Anita was away she placed a few phone calls to Joran's school.

Yes I agree that the interior was completely replaced in Deepak's car during that time.  It had to be replaced because the K2 could bury Joran for what he did to Natalee.  He didn't get the scratches and bruises on his face being such a good sporter.
Logged
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 »   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Use of this web site in any manner signifies unconditional acceptance, without exception, of our terms of use.
Powered by SMF 1.1.13 | SMF © 2006-2011, Simple Machines LLC
 
Page created in 10.229 seconds with 19 queries.