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Author Topic: Lively Case Discussion #542 11/11 - 11/14/2006  (Read 97854 times)
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San
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« Reply #260 on: November 12, 2006, 12:58:51 PM »

SATISH'S 6/24/05 STATEMENT:

"then I saw this and I said to Deepak, Joran is crazy”

I take this to be that Joran was in his rage at that point and badly harmed or killed Natalee at that point.

SATISH'S 6/13/05 STATEMENT:

"Then I asked my brother how the girl was doing."

Both Kalpoes know what happened to Natalee because they were present.

BETH'S QUESTION TO DEEPAK:

Did you help her Deepak.

While Deepak stood there looking down and not saying a word because he knows he could have helped her and he didn't.

CHRIS COUMO PRIMETIME INTERVIEW:

"Did you see Natalee in distress"

That question caught him off guard and made him think because he knows he killed her and he didn't expect that question.  He facial expression said it all.
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LilPuma
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« Reply #261 on: November 12, 2006, 02:32:57 PM »

OMG, I'm watching the end of "A Bridge Too Far" (WWII, battle to take Arnhem).  Robert Redford wants to go forward - they're 17k's from Arhem - and some British general wants to stop.  Redford screams at him that half his men are dead, there are British soldiers in Arnhem in serious trouble and they can't stop now.  The British are going to die!  They've been captured by the Germans!  

Just a little historical perspective on Arnhem.  Now I'll go read some and see what's happening.
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LilPuma
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« Reply #262 on: November 12, 2006, 02:45:45 PM »

Quote from: "Kat_Gram"
On the Tuesday, Van Der Stratten went to Paulus's  work and told him to take Joran to the police station at Bulbai. So, a statement was made on the Tuesday in Paulus's presence.  Then Wednesday, Satish and Deepak went to the Racquet Club and gave Joran the details of the HI drop off because they had already done a drive thru with the police. Because Joran was under 18 at the time, Paulus was allowed to be present on the Tuesday.
The police never looked in the obvious direction of Deepak, Satish and Joran until the Security Guards came up with alibis.
As far as Karin Janssen is is concerned, she signed the arrest warrants for the guards. Her information comes from the police. Did she do anything in this case ? She could not get a search warrant ( or did she try ) for the VDS compound and every one of her presentations in court seems to have fallen flat.
I hope that DeVries looks into the relationships between these people, the Sloots, Jacobs, Jan VanDer , Janssen before any of this happened.
And if there is any dirt, really good dirt, I want to hear it.


Kat, I don't know if this case will be solved, but your last paragraph is high on my wish list.  That's the key to this.   (Emphasis added by me.)  Then, all of a sudden, you know why there's no evidence.  Or so they say.  If there's a record of work done on Deepak's backseat, with an FBI agent saying it looked like blood, you've got evidence.  If you've got statements by Joran that were thrown out by a Judge who spends weekends with the Sloots, you've got evidence.  If you've got a witness who helped dispose of a body, you've got evidence.  Problem there would be that without a plea deal, that witness won't talk.
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LilPuma
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« Reply #263 on: November 12, 2006, 03:00:47 PM »

Quote from: "San"
SATISH'S 6/24/05 STATEMENT:

"then I saw this and I said to Deepak, Joran is crazy”

I take this to be that Joran was in his rage at that point and badly harmed or killed Natalee at that point.

SATISH'S 6/13/05 STATEMENT:

"Then I asked my brother how the girl was doing."

Both Kalpoes know what happened to Natalee because they were present.

BETH'S QUESTION TO DEEPAK:

Did you help her Deepak.

While Deepak stood there looking down and not saying a word because he knows he could have helped her and he didn't.

CHRIS COUMO PRIMETIME INTERVIEW:

"Did you see Natalee in distress"

That question caught him off guard and made him think because he knows he killed her and he didn't expect that question.  He facial expression said it all.


Part 1:  I don't think the "Joran is crazy" statement was because he was french kissing a girl he just met.  My goodness, these guys went out every week scoping out the tourists.  Joran was doing a lot more than french kissing Natalee.  

Part 2:  If Satish really asked "how's the girl doing" then he didn't know she died - OR she didn't die that night.  That along with other Kalpoe statements and the police car tape, makes me think that one or both Kalpoes didn't know the final outcome of the evening until after the lie fell apart and they found themselves in jail.  They went back to cruise the pond area, looking for something to help them determine what happened because they didn't believe Joran and they wanted to see if police or family were searching there.  

Parts 3 and 4:  Self-explanatory.  Deepak could have helped, but didn't.  Joran did see Natalee in distress.  That was planned when they went out that night IMHO.   Mad
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Anna
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« Reply #264 on: November 12, 2006, 03:05:19 PM »

Quote from: "shadow"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "2NJSons_Mom"
From Shizaru's timeline:

June 1: Dave Holloway arrives on Aruba. The first two polis stations he visits are unaware of Natalee's disappearance. At the Noord station, Jacobs tells him that she probably got drunk or fell in love and ran off for a few days. Jacobs advises Dave to go relax and have a beer at CnCs, that is the best place to look for her. However he also tells Dave that they should be careful to cover their drinks at CnCs because sometimes people will slip drugs in them (Family's Nov 1 letter, Dave's book)

This is exactly what I mean.  How did Julia Renfro know about Natalee missing before the police.

Someone printed an article or a post that Julia made on the message boards explaining all she did and how she even printed an article in the paper.


Yep, that's why I brought it over.  Also, states that VanderStraaten is unhappy with JR's search, worried about traffic....Anita returns, knows what's going on, and has meeting that night with 2K.  Surveillance begins, where is that info?  All we've seen is the phone & computer records.  The car interior had to have been changed during this time frame.  Rudy said there was blood....later found to be Dutch chocolate and cleaning fluid.  

As Mark Furhman & many others have stated,  routine detective work was not done during those crucial first hours, and the folly continued thereafter.


Really that quote from Shirazus timeline is quite telling. Almost as if Jacob's is hinting at what happened to Natalee . . . cover your drinks. WTF!


I always took that statement from Jacobs to Dave to cover his drink as rubbing Dave's nose in what happened there to Natalee.  I doubt Jacobs truly was concerned that someone was going to put something in Dave's drink so why say such a thing otherwise?

Yep, he was letting Dave know what happened.

JMO.

.
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All posts reflect my opinion only and are not shared by all forum members nor intended as statement of facts.  I am doing the best I can with the information available.

Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #265 on: November 12, 2006, 03:39:47 PM »

Quote from: "San"
Quote from: "klaasend"
SHANIRO KELLY:



http://tinyurl.com/yaq55y

He's also here but I can't tell which one he is yet:

http://tinyurl.com/ybpwcv

Just taking a guess here.  The guy in the car has a red shirt on with a white emblem on the right arm and so does the guy in the picture below:




This  is such good work, I am bringing it forward in case anyone missed it.

.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #266 on: November 12, 2006, 03:49:53 PM »

Quote from: "LilPuma"

Part 1:  I don't think the "Joran is crazy" statement was because he was french kissing a girl he just met.  My goodness, these guys went out every week scoping out the tourists.  Joran was doing a lot more than french kissing Natalee.  

Part 2:  If Satish really asked "how's the girl doing" then he didn't know she died - OR she didn't die that night.  That along with other Kalpoe statements and the police car tape, makes me think that one or both Kalpoes didn't know the final outcome of the evening until after the lie fell apart and they found themselves in jail.  They went back to cruise the pond area, looking for something to help them determine what happened because they didn't believe Joran and they wanted to see if police or family were searching there.  

Parts 3 and 4:  Self-explanatory.  Deepak could have helped, but didn't.  Joran did see Natalee in distress.  That was planned when they went out that night IMHO.   Mad



I agree that the statement that Joran was crazy was NOT about his French kissing a girl but something much stranger.  Remember that the statements say they have had sex in the same rooms before so I hardly think kissing is going to elicit that kind of response.

And as to Paulus and the Prosecutor sharing office space and her having worked for Paulus previously, I also seem to recall that the paperwork for taking DNA sample from Joran only suddenly turned up missing from the file.

It was rumored that KJ then personally took the sample and had it tested on her own, the judge found this out and allowed it entry because it did not match Joran to a sample they had.

Could the taking of the sample on her own have been KJ becoming a bit annoyed with Paulus for taking things from the file and making her appear incompetent?  Did she plan to get the DNA information secretly and use to to keep Paulus better in line?

Did Paulus have anything to do with the paperwork for taking Joran's DNA just vanishing?  It did not vanish in the Kalpoe files, just Joran's file.  And if I recall the timing correctly, Paulus is then asked to remove his personal things and not to return to the courthouse.

So going to work was just a way to find out things about the case for Paulus.  He should have been banned from the courthouse from the first day.

Nothing was done in anything close to what could be considered a normal manner.  Not one thing.

.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
Anna
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« Reply #267 on: November 12, 2006, 04:05:42 PM »

Quote from: "Kat_Gram"
On the Tuesday, Van Der Stratten went to Paulus's  work and told him to take Joran to the police station at Bulbai. So, a statement was made on the Tuesday in Paulus's presence.  Then Wednesday, Satish and Deepak went to the Racquet Club and gave Joran the details of the HI drop off because they had already done a drive thru with the police. Because Joran was under 18 at the time, Paulus was allowed to be present on the Tuesday.
The police never looked in the obvious direction of Deepak, Satish and Joran until the Security Guards came up with alibis.
As far as Karin Janssen is is concerned, she signed the arrest warrants for the guards. Her information comes from the police. Did she do anything in this case ? She could not get a search warrant ( or did she try ) for the VDS compound and every one of her presentations in court seems to have fallen flat.
I hope that DeVries looks into the relationships between these people, the Sloots, Jacobs, Jan VanDer , Janssen before any of this happened.
And if there is any dirt, really good dirt, I want to hear it.



KatGram,
Beth looked at the HI security tape and knew that they did not drop off Natalee after being shown by the J2K exactly the spot where they claimed to have left her.  I think that would have been by Tuesday as she did not sleep.  

So I still contend that it was known before the arrest of the SG that J2K did not drop Natalee off at the HI but they arrested them anyway knowing full well the ones last seen with Natalee lied.  Having alibis didn't seem to help the SG much as they were still held for ten days and remain suspects until this day.

Since no one bought the SG as culprits, I do think they keep them listed as suspects just in case someone is not following the case very closely, just looks so good to have them listed as suspects to deflect from the Island's Favorite Son as being guilty.

KJ said we couldn't think of any reason for the boys to lie.  She seems very lacking in imagination to be a professional.

And I think rather than drugs, it is money laundering on which both she and Judge Smit are considered some sort of experts.  Smit is quoted in some of the big meetings with major banking and government organizations on money laundering, the international reports and things like that.  Interesting, isn't it?  I always thought that was why KJ was in Aruba and then she was assigned this case because she had successfully prosecuted a no body/no crime case in The Netherlands.

.

.
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Murder & Crime on Aruba Summary http://tinyurl.com/2nus7c
klaasend
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« Reply #268 on: November 12, 2006, 04:16:39 PM »





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San
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« Reply #269 on: November 12, 2006, 04:29:39 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"





 Laughing  Laughing
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Sue
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« Reply #270 on: November 12, 2006, 04:56:14 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"








ROFLMFAO
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Joran, Deepak & Satish You F***ers will never be worth anything in your life ever
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« Reply #271 on: November 12, 2006, 05:17:21 PM »

I am still looking around trying to find out where I have seen this name before :  CREUTZBERG, PETER  It's driving me nuts!!

I haven't been able to find the posts that had the different partnerships and businesses out of Florida.  Oh, well, maybe it's just my imagination.
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« Reply #272 on: November 12, 2006, 05:45:57 PM »

Quote from: "klaasend"





Klaas ~ my favorite yet!  You are superb! Larry, Curly, Moe ~ that says it all!  Thanks for a smile today!
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« Reply #273 on: November 12, 2006, 06:11:58 PM »

Quote from: "sirensong"
I am still looking around trying to find out where I have seen this name before :  CREUTZBERG, PETER  It's driving me nuts!!

I haven't been able to find the posts that had the different partnerships and businesses out of Florida.  Oh, well, maybe it's just my imagination.


I've been looking too and haven't found anything.
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« Reply #274 on: November 12, 2006, 06:36:19 PM »

KLAAS !!!!!!!!!!! The Stooges !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





YOU ROCK N ROLL KLAAS !!!!!!!!!!!!  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing
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I continue to stand with the girl.
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« Reply #275 on: November 12, 2006, 06:45:18 PM »

Quote from: "nonesuche"
KLAAS !!!!!!!!!!! The Stooges !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





YOU ROCK N ROLL KLAAS !!!!!!!!!!!!  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing  Laughing

That's what happens to me on a slow news day, I resort to photoshop..ha ha ha  Laughing
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Kat_Gram
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« Reply #276 on: November 12, 2006, 07:08:49 PM »

Anna you are right about the KJ and the money laundering.
.
We have discussed the throwing of the " choller" off the bridge. BTW, this is a human being. Was the person hurt ? That bridge didn't look like a footbridge. Maybe the person died ? What happened after the person went into the water ? Did the boys who were there stand around and laugh ?  I read somehere, just postings,  that there was another episode that Jan Van Der Stratten covered up . Was this it, or was it when girls went to the police to complain about Joran.
.
DeVries is most likely looking into Joran's past to see if there is any capability based on his past behaviour. If you google or yahoo anything on sociopath, you can find a list of descriptors that fit Joran's behaviour.
.
And the sad thing is, the Sloots knew what Joran was. No way did they really think he was the person they hired Joe T to say he was.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #277 on: November 12, 2006, 07:11:50 PM »

Evening monkeys.  Hope everyone is well tonight. Since we are looking to put some faces with some names of the ALE, could I ask for a few.  Eric Soemers, Luigi Croes, Clyde Burke and Roland Tromp to name a few.  It is interesting to notice which statements Jacobs and Burke were responsible for.
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Lala'sMom
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« Reply #278 on: November 12, 2006, 07:16:55 PM »

Never mind Klaas, I foudn some of them.  I didn't realize Sunfreak had been so thorough.  My mistake....slinking back to my corner... Embarassed
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« Reply #279 on: November 12, 2006, 07:34:46 PM »

Well, I am not staying here to talk to myself...be back later. Rolling Eyes
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