Caylee Marie Anthony #136 6/10/09 - 6/15/09

[trimmonthelake]

NoRose and Joesamasmama- thanks!  NoRose, that teeth info really bothered me too.  JSM-glad to see, praying for you with the tornadoes last evening!
I'm sorry for two long posts though, everyone. Don't mean to be "hogging" the pages.

You are not hogging the pages, your posts are interesting. I even asked my younger daughter what she thought about the teeth, she is studying criminal justice, and she reads a lot about serial killers and crime, and she didn't have an answer. I always get nervous when she doesn't have an answer, when I throw different things at her about crimes. Maybe there is a logical reason, but I sure would like to know.

I'm sorry but I am confused, I don't remember any forensic reports saying the teeth were scattered?  Did I miss that?

Weighing in on the question of teeth found separately from the skull (they were IIRC), and whether that would be possible if duct tape were still in situ around the mouth of Caylee's skull (it would IMO).  It is so unpleasant to consider, but the truth is that a fully skeletonized body is nothing but bone.  When the body is disposed of outdoors, especially if it is not buried, you must assume that animals will have participated in removal of soft tissues, as well as separation and dispersal of bones.  As for the skull, there is no more skin, no more gums, no more brain matter, no more cartilaginous membrane, just a skull with open eye sockets and nasal openings.  Sorry to be so graphic, but IMO, it is indeed possible for baby teeth to separate from the skull even if the mouth area is sealed.

 

Added:  Ah, I see that my friend leslee beat me to the punch!  Hi leslee!  I'm not here.  I'm sneak-posting from work...  Shhh!

Hey sneaky monkey.      

[Fanny Mae]

Hello, monkeys and guests!   

Busy day today, and haven't even read back yet. Going back to read. 

[leslee]

NoRose and Joesamasmama- thanks!  NoRose, that teeth info really bothered me too.  JSM-glad to see, praying for you with the tornadoes last evening!
I'm sorry for two long posts though, everyone. Don't mean to be "hogging" the pages.

You are not hogging the pages, your posts are interesting. I even asked my younger daughter what she thought about the teeth, she is studying criminal justice, and she reads a lot about serial killers and crime, and she didn't have an answer. I always get nervous when she doesn't have an answer, when I throw different things at her about crimes. Maybe there is a logical reason, but I sure would like to know.

I'm sorry but I am confused, I don't remember any forensic reports saying the teeth were scattered?  Did I miss that?

Weighing in on the question of teeth found separately from the skull (they were IIRC), and whether that would be possible if duct tape were still in situ around the mouth of Caylee's skull (it would IMO).  It is so unpleasant to consider, but the truth is that a fully skeletonized body is nothing but bone.  When the body is disposed of outdoors, especially if it is not buried, you must assume that animals will have participated in removal of soft tissues, as well as separation and dispersal of bones.  As for the skull, there is no more skin, no more gums, no more brain matter, no more cartilaginous membrane, just a skull with open eye sockets and nasal openings.  Sorry to be so graphic, but IMO, it is indeed possible for baby teeth to separate from the skull even if the mouth area is sealed.

 

Added:  Ah, I see that my friend leslee beat me to the punch!  Hi leslee!  I'm not here.  I'm sneak-posting from work...  Shhh!

Ok shhh I'll be quiet Desi You explained it much more thoroughly than I... you get an A

[Desdemona]

So the Sean Krause interview thread is back up at WS. Some of the things being said about this man, makes me ill. I know he angered a lot of people, and some of the things he wrote were definitely over the top. But, the man is dead, the man suffered quite a bit before he died. The mean spirited people make me sick. They might as well pull the thread.    Now I have two things to get worked up about already. And then poor little Nevaeh's funeral is today.

So one of the things I adore about you no rose is your kindness and compassion. Even in this case, if it is undeserved to the individual, so please in no way take my comments as a criticism to you, they most definately are not.

This individual, God Rest his soul, spent the last year of his life hating, and inspiring hate among other haters With his free time.
Sad when you think about it really. While I could lather up and spew some of the most salacious, but true, things this man was responsible for, I am not one to cast bad chi into someones alternate plane.  Well, unless provoked, and then God help you if I regret taking the high road on something, and then some.

So I will simply leave you with a quote said to me by John Morgan:

"If that guy was not dying he would be sitting across from me right next to the Anthony's. If I find out he's not, he will be."

and that was AFTER an attempt was made to serve him in the matter, and his diagnosis was known. Trust me when I tell you there would have been a line forming around the building immediately thereafter if he were here, lest that be a lesson to anyone wishing to carry on his ill guided antics. Attempting to malign others character and credibility for their own sick fodder is a crime, pure and simple. Sending an email, unsolicited is spam. Illegal. Sending an email to find somone's IP is called pretexting and is also highly illegal; a Federal offense actually and has been prosecuted heavily in Federal court in Fla specifically.

I will say again it was a shame. Creatively, I don't know if he did his own graphics, but he had some of the best I had seen, very original.

Lastly, one thing I find very peculiar. In his article when he put those emails out, he specifically states that he taped the conversation with Cindy. He said he took copious notes or something to that effect. Why weren't they offered to Sgt. Allen and Det Melich?

Blink

When I read SK's phone interview with Yuri last night, I was surprised to see that (even though there was some hedging and hesitation)  he came out and admitted having violated a number of laws.  While it's possible that Yuri had given him a pass on self-incrimination (as they did with Tony's roommate Cameron C.) I lean toward the hunch that Sean knew he basically already had a death sentence d/t the cancer and felt he had nothing to lose.

I was appalled back in the fall (October?) when Sean went after Zenaida with the telephone sting, and IMO it made him look much, much worse than her.    She seemed to handle it graciously; he came off looking like a scummy sensationalistic immature scandal-monger. 

I am glad he did cooperate and tell LE what he knew, however.

[joesamas mama]

NoRose and Joesamasmama- thanks!  NoRose, that teeth info really bothered me too.  JSM-glad to see, praying for you with the tornadoes last evening!
I'm sorry for two long posts though, everyone. Don't mean to be "hogging" the pages.

Ispy. I love your long posts. Thanks for the prayers last night. The teeth info bothered me too. Something else to think about the last night Caylee was at home and Cindy/KC fought. Wonder if Caylee was hit accidentally or on purpose and maybe a bone was broken then. I know in the picture from Tony L's cell phone she did look like she had been punched in the eye. But little kids fall down all the time, so I don't know if KC caused it or Caylee fell down.

One other thing that bothered me in the documents a long time ago is I think Tony L roomate's girlfriend or someone said that Caylee was always left to play on the balcony alone. But in the MM interview she said Caylee wouldn't leave KC's side. So which is it? She will play alone on a balcony or she was stuck to KC's side. Just something that came into my mind just now and the balcony story always bothered me because a 2 1/2 kid shouldn't be on a balcony outside alone.

Sorry for the long post, TIA JSM 

A scary thought I just had while I was in the shower, Caylee was afraid to be away from Caylee while she was at MM's house. THE SAME HOUSE THAT LEE LIVED IN!!! Sorry that just popped into my mind. Could it be that Caylee was afraid to be without KC when Lee was around? Remember all the creepy pictures of Caylee crying with Lee? Hope this makes sense. JSM

Oh, it makes sense, and unfortunately where my mind is going, I think I'm going to be sick.

I'm sorry No Rose to make you sick. The thought just hit me while I was in the shower. I don't know what or why it did. Hugs. JSM

[Fanny Mae]

I have spent a good part of my life believing or try to convince myself that people than do really horrible and bad things had a bad childhood, a mental disease, or some other good reason why they did the things they did. I did not really believe in the devil or hell, there were just degrees of goodness. Some had more and others not so much.

I now know with certainty that there is real EVIL in our world. You cannot explain it away with psychosis, sociopaths, schizophrenia, depression, bipolar, childhoood abuse or the many other tags that are out there. I am not saying that there are not people suffering from these mental diseases, because there surely are. However, for the most part they do not murder others, and they do no make excuses for those that do harm others.

What we are dealing here is not your run of the mill mental diseases.
The Anthonys are NOT grieving grandparents, nothing close to it! Casey is surely not having a mental breakdown. These are people that chew other people up and spit them out and have not a thought for them. Evil, evil EVIL! Purely and simply. They carrode and distroy anything and everything in their path. Including a precious little child that they were all blessed with, and none of them, NOT ONE OF THEM, gave a rat's ass about her! They are all using her memory for their own purposes and gain.

When people begin to realize that we cannot think like they do, cannot reason with their chains of thoughts, and that sometimes there is no way to deal with them than to put them to death or incarcerate them for life, that our way of life can begin to make some sense again. That includes the politicians, the lawmakers, the law enforcement establishments, the lawyers, the everyday people including the bleeding heart, and non thinkers. Folks, there is real evil in our world, and we need to take a stand. JMO

[Protect the little babies]

Richard Grunds new site that is dedicated to Caylee and only Caylee...no ants involvement AT ALL....

 

 

[Protect the little babies]

  

Maybe I should add the link..... 

http://www.friendsofcaylee.com/

 

[no rose colored glasses]

NoRose and Joesamasmama- thanks!  NoRose, that teeth info really bothered me too.  JSM-glad to see, praying for you with the tornadoes last evening!
I'm sorry for two long posts though, everyone. Don't mean to be "hogging" the pages.

Ispy. I love your long posts. Thanks for the prayers last night. The teeth info bothered me too. Something else to think about the last night Caylee was at home and Cindy/KC fought. Wonder if Caylee was hit accidentally or on purpose and maybe a bone was broken then. I know in the picture from Tony L's cell phone she did look like she had been punched in the eye. But little kids fall down all the time, so I don't know if KC caused it or Caylee fell down.

One other thing that bothered me in the documents a long time ago is I think Tony L roomate's girlfriend or someone said that Caylee was always left to play on the balcony alone. But in the MM interview she said Caylee wouldn't leave KC's side. So which is it? She will play alone on a balcony or she was stuck to KC's side. Just something that came into my mind just now and the balcony story always bothered me because a 2 1/2 kid shouldn't be on a balcony outside alone.

Sorry for the long post, TIA JSM 

A scary thought I just had while I was in the shower, Caylee was afraid to be away from Caylee while she was at MM's house. THE SAME HOUSE THAT LEE LIVED IN!!! Sorry that just popped into my mind. Could it be that Caylee was afraid to be without KC when Lee was around? Remember all the creepy pictures of Caylee crying with Lee? Hope this makes sense. JSM

Oh, it makes sense, and unfortunately where my mind is going, I think I'm going to be sick.

I'm sorry No Rose to make you sick. The thought just hit me while I was in the shower. I don't know what or why it did. Hugs. JSM

No reason to be sorry, hope you had a good day at the rink    Lee, grosses me out, and nothing will surprise me if something inappropriate happened. It was quite clear by some of the pics that we have seen that Caylee didn't care much for Lee. It could be that she sensed that Lee didn't care much for kids, I don't know.

[joesamas mama]

NoRose and Joesamasmama- thanks!  NoRose, that teeth info really bothered me too.  JSM-glad to see, praying for you with the tornadoes last evening!
I'm sorry for two long posts though, everyone. Don't mean to be "hogging" the pages.

Ispy. I love your long posts. Thanks for the prayers last night. The teeth info bothered me too. Something else to think about the last night Caylee was at home and Cindy/KC fought. Wonder if Caylee was hit accidentally or on purpose and maybe a bone was broken then. I know in the picture from Tony L's cell phone she did look like she had been punched in the eye. But little kids fall down all the time, so I don't know if KC caused it or Caylee fell down.

One other thing that bothered me in the documents a long time ago is I think Tony L roomate's girlfriend or someone said that Caylee was always left to play on the balcony alone. But in the MM interview she said Caylee wouldn't leave KC's side. So which is it? She will play alone on a balcony or she was stuck to KC's side. Just something that came into my mind just now and the balcony story always bothered me because a 2 1/2 kid shouldn't be on a balcony outside alone.

Sorry for the long post, TIA JSM 

JSM- Who in their right mind leaves a 2- 2 1/2 year old on a balcony alone?!!  We have a balcony, just a few feet off the ground and I never left children out there, even when I was steps away in the house.  I think Caylee was probably left to entertain herself quite a bit when Casey had her, due to the extensive facebook/myspace/photobucket/texting entries and the ongoing partying.  I also believe Caylee did cling to Casey in group/boyfriend settings because she felt insecure.  Given what we know from friend interviews and Casey's technology binges, I think we can safely surmise that Caylee probably didn't have much of a stable, predictable daily routine.  Factor in the family arguments, the family finances, and parental threats to take her from Casey, I wouldn't be surprised if Caylee clung.  Who wouldn't?  It appears that Casey had little regard for what Caylee needed (predictable routine and healthy family relationships=security, playdates= socialization, outings= exploration/meeting new people).  Instead, we see isolation, abusive family relationships, a family environment by marked distrust of outsiders, and a child dragged along to adult parties.  All of these would cause any child to cling to whatever scrap of security/a known person they could find.  I am so glad Caylee is secure with God and Jesus, but it should not have come at 2 1/2 years old.  JUSTICE FOR CAYLEE!

I spy, I had such a good reply for you, but I got booted out of the cage. So I will try and post it again. I don't know what type of person would leave their child out on the balcony by themselves. I think Caylee was clingy to anyone she "felt" safe with, I see her being more clingy to George and Cindy though than with KC because KC left her alone to play on her computer, talk on the phone, text and do whatever other stuff (I don't want to think about) while Caylee was around. I had the benadryl theory in my head before the chloroform was ever made public.

But what came to my mind was the girl that said Caylee played alone on the balcony and the MM interview that said Caylee wouldn't leave KC's side. I could see Caylee was a clingy child by looking at the last video of her holding on to Mr Plesea. Breaks my heart that she had to go home to those two evil witches that night.

PS my other post was much better. Hope this makes sense. JSM

[no rose colored glasses]

But what are the chances of a whole family being evil? That's what gets to me. I can see a black sheep if you will, or one evil person in the family, but the entire family. 

[Fanny Mae]

Richard Grunds new site that is dedicated to Caylee and only Caylee...no ants involvement AT ALL....

 

 

You know that this website will be on Spindy's hit list. The Grunds are the only ones that I can think of, that have the purest love for Caylee. 

[no rose colored glasses]

Richard Grunds new site that is dedicated to Caylee and only Caylee...no ants involvement AT ALL....

 

 

You know that this website will be on Spindy's hit list. The Grunds are the only ones that I can think of, that have the purest love for Caylee. 

Look out here comes the witch. She can't stand that thought, Caylee was her possesion.

[joesamas mama]

I agree ISpy, I never left my kids near a balcony, I was afraid even going to the park with them, and they would climb things and I would go crazy thinking they were going to fall. Heck, I wouldn't even let them have balloons, after a nurse friend of mine said how a child could pop it and accidently swallow it. When I look back, I really took the fun out of everything for them, with all my fears and worries. 

Hi No Rose, I guess parents worry. One time I ate a jawbreaker and stuck it up my nose when I was little. I don't remember, my mom just told me that it happened. So you never know what might hurt a kid. I think it is better to be safe than sorry. Your girls had fun don't worry about that. You are a good mom. Hugs JSM

[joesamas mama]

Not sure what happened regarding the teeth question, punched in the mouth came to mind for me too (that makes me feel sick).  The pics with Lee have always bothered me too.  There is something about him I do not like, like that nagging feeling.  Who takes a pic of your crying child being held by her laughing uncle?  If it was a case of Caylee having a temper tantrum, wouldn't you (the parent) just put the camera down and take care of the tantrum?  IIRC, there were two pics like that with Lee.  I don't believe the Anguished CMA sobbing was for Caylee because I don't think Caylee was comfortable with Lee and vice-versa. I'll leave it at that for now.
Well, need to go. BBL to catch up.  Enjoy your day, everyone! 

Have a great day    Lee has always bothered me as well, just a gut feeling that don't go away.

And your gut feeling is usually right from what I have seen on the monkeys.

[Desdemona]

NoRose and Joesamasmama- thanks!  NoRose, that teeth info really bothered me too.  JSM-glad to see, praying for you with the tornadoes last evening!
I'm sorry for two long posts though, everyone. Don't mean to be "hogging" the pages.

Ispy. I love your long posts. Thanks for the prayers last night. The teeth info bothered me too. Something else to think about the last night Caylee was at home and Cindy/KC fought. Wonder if Caylee was hit accidentally or on purpose and maybe a bone was broken then. I know in the picture from Tony L's cell phone she did look like she had been punched in the eye. But little kids fall down all the time, so I don't know if KC caused it or Caylee fell down.

One other thing that bothered me in the documents a long time ago is I think Tony L roomate's girlfriend or someone said that Caylee was always left to play on the balcony alone. But in the MM interview she said Caylee wouldn't leave KC's side. So which is it? She will play alone on a balcony or she was stuck to KC's side. Just something that came into my mind just now and the balcony story always bothered me because a 2 1/2 kid shouldn't be on a balcony outside alone.

Sorry for the long post, TIA JSM 

A scary thought I just had while I was in the shower, Caylee was afraid to be away from Caylee while she was at MM's house. THE SAME HOUSE THAT LEE LIVED IN!!! Sorry that just popped into my mind. Could it be that Caylee was afraid to be without KC when Lee was around? Remember all the creepy pictures of Caylee crying with Lee? Hope this makes sense. JSM

Oh, it makes sense, and unfortunately where my mind is going, I think I'm going to be sick.

I'm sorry No Rose to make you sick. The thought just hit me while I was in the shower. I don't know what or why it did. Hugs. JSM

JSM you are a smart Monkey.  Michelle last saw Caylee just after her second birthday.  Caylee was on the balcony at Tony's in early June, shortly before she turned three.  While it may be argued that she could have somewhat outgrown her "separation anxiety," IMO what you have suggested here is worth taking seriously.  It does make sense, especially with Michelle's statement that Lee never babysat Caylee because he was not into kids... Casey's stories about him molesting her (Casey) in the past... the icky vibe many Monkeys have gotten from some of the pictures... his inappropriate, odd reactions... and his bellowing of "CMA" at the funeral service.  Not accusing Lee, but just saying that what you are hinting about might bear considering.   

Thanks, Monkeys for not blowing my cover at work.  Sneaking back out of the cage now -- Shh!   I'll check back in from home tonight.  Love ya, Monks!

[joesamas mama]

We discussed the bones being scattered when they were found.  Someone suggested small animals would have scattered them.  I said I didnt think small animals would be interested in bones, but someone smarter than me (Im thinking 2NJ) said they would.  Anyone remember?

My sister has had many pet rats that love to chew on bones. So if rats do, then mice and moles and other rodents may too. Not sure about raccoons/skunks, etc., but even a fox would take bones.

  Rats as a pet?

Raccoons, dogs, and animal love to chew on bones and they will scatter them or hide them for later. JMO JSM

[no rose colored glasses]

I agree ISpy, I never left my kids near a balcony, I was afraid even going to the park with them, and they would climb things and I would go crazy thinking they were going to fall. Heck, I wouldn't even let them have balloons, after a nurse friend of mine said how a child could pop it and accidently swallow it. When I look back, I really took the fun out of everything for them, with all my fears and worries. 

Hi No Rose, I guess parents worry. One time I ate a jawbreaker and stuck it up my nose when I was little. I don't remember, my mom just told me that it happened. So you never know what might hurt a kid. I think it is better to be safe than sorry. Your girls had fun don't worry about that. You are a good mom. Hugs JSM

One of my friends stuck a crayon up her nose and it broke, not good  Thank-you 

[Fanny Mae]

But what are the chances of a whole family being evil? That's what gets to me. I can see a black sheep if you will, or one evil person in the family, but the entire family. 

I know, because usually it is just one member that is that way. I guess there must have been a perfect storm of relationships, because I have no doubt in my mind at this point that there is a nest of them that lived/live on Hoplesspring Drive. 

And what is worse, they attract others that are just as bad as they are, and they have the makings of a coven. I am not saying they are devil worshippers. I am saying they themselves are purely EVIL. There is not one redeming quality in any of them.

I have been outside today. We have been putting down mulch and the finishing touches on our courtyard. I have had a lot of time to think and peruse what I really think on a lot of subjects. Evil just seemed to be one of them.

Make no doubt, we are not dealing with misunderstood and beleaguered people here. We are dealing with people with no consciences. They don't care, they really don't care about other people and cannot work up the slightest empathy for anyone other than themselves. JMO

[no rose colored glasses]

Thanks, Fanny, I really hate to think what all went on inside that house. I keep saying that, but really it is frightening to imagine.