Caylee Marie Anthony #136 6/10/09 - 6/15/09

[Fanny Mae]

DESI,

Are you ok? 

[Desdemona]

Yep, they share an office at 390 N. Orange Avenue, Suite 1630 in Orlando. 
http://www.wftv.com/download/2009/0529/19600081.pdf
Brad is under a bar complaint investigation related to this case, and apparently has a long history of complaints. (self-edit:  This was taken from another board and is incorrect.)   http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3571913&postcount=8
(Love Gertrude and Albert in your avi, Fanny.)

Ok, Have I gone Kerblewy? I read that to say he had a clear record? Do I need an adult beverage?
B

  Blink, you and I posted about "an adult beverage" at the same time!  Cheers!
I did not look at the "ten year history" link, but consider the source?  It was posted and interpreted at WS, where I found it through Google today.  Did you see my post earlier about the WFTV story linked?  I went there and could no longer find the paragraphs related to BC having a bar complaint filed... though the article is still there and the paragraphs are quoted in at least 3 forums -- I checked.  Any ideas?  Just bad reporting, or something hush-hush?

OMG!  I just clicked that link to see what you were talking about, Blink.
It's OBVIOUS!  The link to Conway's profile says:  "Ten Year Discipline History:  NONE." 
Help!  Is there a mod in the house??? Maybe we should edit what I posted???  (Bad Desi!  The WS post I read incorrectly says he has a "10-year clear disciplinary history."  I was reading through this thread and missed the word "clear" as did the members there who posted replies.  In context, it looks like they are discussing multiple complaints over a long period of time; "these complaints", "complaints before he was working with the Anthonys" etc.  It is all incorrect, and I have unfortunately propagated it here!

Oh dear, and it's been quoted here several times, OMG.  I hope this can be corrected;  Mods?!  MODS!!  Help!!'
Thank you so much, Blink. 
Right at this moment, I feel like I did the other night when I reported that Tori's body had been found.  I don't follow that case closely,and had heard earlier that the mom said she wouldn't agree to a funeral until Tori was found.  So when I heard the discussion on Dana's show that they had the funeral, I reported Tori had been found, and was wrong.  Police had convinced Tori's dad that they might never find her, so the mom had capitulated.  I was WRONG about something very sensitive, and it was awful.  And now this!
It's discouraging.  I feel like taking a moratorium on posting for awhile, just sticking to lurking and reading... mistakes like this are so upsetting.
 

[Desdemona]

DESI,
Are you ok? 

  Sidetracked by Blink's eagle-eye catch on the interpretive mistake about Brad Conway's record, which I propagated from another board earlier... my bad.  Hope it can be corrected.  Hate to make an error like that and hate to make more work for our wonderful mods...

But I was also detained longer in the "Cindy's-FBI-Interview pit of slime," because I stumbled onto something else and am taking notes.  I'll be reporting on that soon.

Now I need more than one 'adult beverage' I'm afraid...

[Fanny Mae]

Yep, they share an office at 390 N. Orange Avenue, Suite 1630 in Orlando. 
http://www.wftv.com/download/2009/0529/19600081.pdf
Brad is under a bar complaint investigation related to this case, and apparently has a long history of complaints. (self-edit:  This was taken from another board and is incorrect.)   http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3571913&postcount=8
(Love Gertrude and Albert in your avi, Fanny.)

Ok, Have I gone Kerblewy? I read that to say he had a clear record? Do I need an adult beverage?
B

  Blink, you and I posted about "an adult beverage" at the same time!  Cheers!
I did not look at the "ten year history" link, but consider the source?  It was posted and interpreted at WS, where I found it through Google today.  Did you see my post earlier about the WFTV story linked?  I went there and could no longer find the paragraphs related to BC having a bar complaint filed... though the article is still there and the paragraphs are quoted in at least 3 forums -- I checked.  Any ideas?  Just bad reporting, or something hush-hush?

OMG!  I just clicked that link to see what you were talking about, Blink.
It's OBVIOUS!  The link to Conway's profile says:  "Ten Year Discipline History:  NONE." 
Help!  Is there a mod in the house??? Maybe we should edit what I posted???  (Bad Desi!  The WS post I read incorrectly says he has a "10-year clear disciplinary history."  I was reading through this thread and missed the word "clear" as did the members there who posted replies.  In context, it looks like they are discussing multiple complaints over a long period of time; "these complaints", "complaints before he was working with the Anthonys" etc.  It is all incorrect, and I have unfortunately propagated it here!

Oh dear, and it's been quoted here several times, OMG.  I hope this can be corrected;  Mods?!  MODS!!  Help!!'
Thank you so much, Blink. 
Right at this moment, I feel like I did the other night when I reported that Tori's body had been found.  I don't follow that case closely,and had heard earlier that the mom said she wouldn't agree to a funeral until Tori was found.  So when I heard the discussion on Dana's show that they had the funeral, I reported Tori had been found, and was wrong.  Police had convinced Tori's dad that they might never find her, so the mom had capitulated.  I was WRONG about something very sensitive, and it was awful.  And now this!
It's discouraging.  I feel like taking a moratorium on posting for awhile, just sticking to lurking and reading... mistakes like this are so upsetting.
 

I told you listening to those Spindy FBI tapes were going to make you crazy.

You better not take a moratorium on posting , and just lurk and read. 

[Fanny Mae]

Yep, they share an office at 390 N. Orange Avenue, Suite 1630 in Orlando. 
http://www.wftv.com/download/2009/0529/19600081.pdf
Brad is under a bar complaint investigation related to this case, and apparently has a long history of complaints. (self-edit:  This was taken from another board and is incorrect.)   http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3571913&postcount=8
(Love Gertrude and Albert in your avi, Fanny.)

Ok, Have I gone Kerblewy? I read that to say he had a clear record? Do I need an adult beverage?
B

  Blink, you and I posted about "an adult beverage" at the same time!  Cheers!
I did not look at the "ten year history" link, but consider the source?  It was posted and interpreted at WS, where I found it through Google today.  Did you see my post earlier about the WFTV story linked?  I went there and could no longer find the paragraphs related to BC having a bar complaint filed... though the article is still there and the paragraphs are quoted in at least 3 forums -- I checked.  Any ideas?  Just bad reporting, or something hush-hush?

OMG!  I just clicked that link to see what you were talking about, Blink.
It's OBVIOUS!  The link to Conway's profile says:  "Ten Year Discipline History:  NONE." 
Help!  Is there a mod in the house??? Maybe we should edit what I posted???  (Bad Desi!  The WS post I read incorrectly says he has a "10-year clear disciplinary history."  I was reading through this thread and missed the word "clear" as did the members there who posted replies.  In context, it looks like they are discussing multiple complaints over a long period of time; "these complaints", "complaints before he was working with the Anthonys" etc.  It is all incorrect, and I have unfortunately propagated it here!

Oh dear, and it's been quoted here several times, OMG.  I hope this can be corrected;  Mods?!  MODS!!  Help!!'
Thank you so much, Blink. 
Right at this moment, I feel like I did the other night when I reported that Tori's body had been found.  I don't follow that case closely,and had heard earlier that the mom said she wouldn't agree to a funeral until Tori was found.  So when I heard the discussion on Dana's show that they had the funeral, I reported Tori had been found, and was wrong.  Police had convinced Tori's dad that they might never find her, so the mom had capitulated.  I was WRONG about something very sensitive, and it was awful.  And now this!
It's discouraging.  I feel like taking a moratorium on posting for awhile, just sticking to lurking and reading... mistakes like this are so upsetting.
 

Bearly is here. Calm down. You are making me get upset.

[Blink34]

As she has mentioned previously, much of Turbo's "generational evil" theory is derived from the work of M. Scott Peck, who wrote "The Road Less Traveled" and "People of the Lie."  His work is interesting, though somewhat controversial because of his concept of malignant evil, which has a religious basis, as a type of psychopathy.  IMO anyone baffled by the narcissistic and sociopathic behavior demonstrated by the Anthony clan -- or who have themselves been vicitimized by a narcissist or sociopathic relationship, family or otherwise, would do well to investigate it if they have not done so already.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Scott_Peck  Hugs to Swayze and all other Monkeys who know what it's like first hand.

Thank you Desi.  It is a very interesting subject & this case has brought up a lot of questions about it. 

Good night sweet monkeys & thank you for all your insightful posts. 

Time for me to head out.  Movie time!

I would strongly suggest reading "People of the Lie" if you have never read it. Peck was educated in psychology without any reference to evil as being a cause of some psychiatric symptoms. He was not religious at all, more like an agnostic when he started in his field. This was a progressive determination he made though years of private practice. When he began he believed, along with 99 percent of his psychiatric colleagues, that there was no such thing as evil or the devil. Peck's view of God is even more disturbing. He ends up looking suspiciously like a psychotherapist. Peck declares flatly that God does not punish evil, that he "cannot destroy, he can only create … having forsworn the use of power against us, if we refuse His help, He has no recourse but, weeping, to watch us punish ourselves … having forsaken force, God is impotent to prevent the atrocities that we commit."

People of the Lie is loaded with the fascinating and chilling stories of patients he has treated who have struggled with evil people or who were themselves evil. Unforgettable is the story of Bobby, whose parents made him a gift of the rifle with which his brother had committed suicide.

About 11 years ago, IIRC, I was on a biz trip and had an oppty to meet a 20 year forensic pediatric psychologist. It is timely because it was about a week after the Columbine massacre. It was of course weighing very heavily on my mind, my kids were babies and you know you have all that "now I am a Mom and see things a whole new Bear Cub way" thing going on.

I remember asking him what was his role in the conference and when he told me his credentials ,I remember thinking a sense of elation, that I was supposed to meet this gentleman so the unrest I was feeling about the whole thing was about to be quelled, or at the least, explained .

Was I ever wrong.

I asked him, " In your profession what markers would you have seen? How did people fail these kids and their victims? How does one see a murderous tween or teen in the making?"

He replied- "In 30 years of studying and patient practice of kids with psychiatric or emotional issues, I have come to the conclusion that some kids are born evil. No other explanation."

I was F L O O R E D. I felt cheated in his response, WTH kind of answer was that? So I should just factor in my kids peer ratio that playmate X, may just be a complete whackjob with no forewarning to speak of? How do I protect from that? What bat signal do I send?  

That said, today I completely believe him. 100%. It is not a lack of a different and difficult clinical diagnosis that drives this, it is it's own.  

[Fanny Mae]

About 11 years ago, IIRC, I was on a biz trip and had an oppty to meet a 20 year forensic pediatric psychologist. It is timely because it was about a week after the Columbine massacre. It was of course weighing very heavily on my mind, my kids were babies and you know you have all that "now I am a Mom and see things a whole new Bear Cub way" thing going on.

I remember asking him what was his role in the conference and when he told me his credentials ,I remember thinking a sense of elation, that I was supposed to meet this gentleman so the unrest I was feeling about the whole thing was about to be quelled, or at the least, explained .

Was I ever wrong.

I asked him, " In your profession what markers would you have seen? How did people fail these kids and their victims? How does one see a murderous tween or teen in the making?"

He replied- "In 30 years of studying and patient practice of kids with psychiatric or emotional issues, I have come to the conclusion that some kids are born evil. No other explanation."

I was F L O O R E D. I felt cheated in his response, WTH kind of answer was that? So I should just factor in my kids peer ratio that playmate X, may just be a complete whackjob with no forewarning to speak of? How do I protect from that? What bat signal do I send?  

That said, today I completely believe him. 100%. It is not a lack of a different and difficult clinical diagnosis that drives this, it is it's own.  

I never met a forensic pediatric pyschologist, and have never had my feelings of evil verified officially. It came to me in increments of experience and horror that there really was such a thing. I just thought there were just degrees of goodness, and some had more than others for the longest time in my life. In my later years, I think most of us has been exposed to the evil if not personally, through the terrible and awful things that have happened in our world on a daily basis. Things that cannot be explained by any rhyme or reason. Hateful, hurtful, excessively cruel and mindboggling. And I do think that Evil is on the increase. It has always been here, but the volume of it is an awsomely awful thing to behold. JMO

[Desdemona]

Bearly is here. Calm down. You are making me get upset.

Sorry, Fanny. I don't want you upset.  I've seen what can happen! 
I think my panic was exacerbated by an excess of Cindy Anthony at her worst.  Digging through that footage of her in the FBI interview, I feel like I need a least a long shower and something alcoholic to drink, if not a spa day or something!

For your sake I'll calm down, sorry!  I am hoping that Bearly or another Mod can repair this.  I will try hard to be more careful, and will be ever so grateful... will be posting what I found soon.

[Fanny Mae]

My kitty is wearing me down tonight. She is frantically trying to get me to come to bed. She says it is way past her bedtime.

DESI, If you decide to leave you notes on the FBI tapes I will see them tomorrow. Please be back tomorrow. It was an honest mistake, something we all do. 

Good nite, ya'll. And God bless.   

[Fanny Mae]

Bearly is here. Calm down. You are making me get upset.

Sorry, Fanny. I don't want you upset.  I've seen what can happen! 
I think my panic was exacerbated by an excess of Cindy Anthony at her worst.  Digging through that footage of her in the FBI interview, I feel like I need a least a long shower and something alcoholic to drink, if not a spa day or something!

For your sake I'll calm down, sorry!  I am hoping that Bearly or another Mod can repair this.  I will try hard to be more careful, and will be ever so grateful... will be posting what I found soon.

I'm glad that you are better. Go have your shower and a strong drink. It will be ok. And I'll see you tomorrow. Deal?

[Desdemona]

I'm glad that you are better. Go have your shower and a strong drink. It will be ok. And I'll see you tomorrow. Deal?

Deal!  Goodnight to you and everybody heading off to bed... I'll post what I found in a bit.

[Blink34]

Desi-

Be for real friend, You'll forget more than alot know about this case. All because of our sweetie girl, Caylee Marie.
Don't give it another thought. And, when I flub up, and I do, and will, I will come here and tell my friends, because we are luckily blessed to have them.

Admiringly,

Blink  

[Desdemona]

Desi-

Be for real friend, You'll forget more than alot know about this case. All because of our sweetie girl, Caylee Marie.
Don't give it another thought. And, when I flub up, and I do, and will, I will come here and tell my friends, because we are luckily blessed to have them.

Admiringly,

Blink  

Are you maybe trying to say I'm overreacting?

Thanks for the kind words, you're the best.   

[klaasend]

Desi-

Be for real friend, You'll forget more than alot know about this case. All because of our sweetie girl, Caylee Marie.
Don't give it another thought. And, when I flub up, and I do, and will, I will come here and tell my friends, because we are luckily blessed to have them.

Admiringly,

Blink  

Are you maybe trying to say I'm overreacting?

Thanks for the kind words, you're the best.   

Desi - I went back and corrected the original and I think most of the quotes.  Please don't worry about it.  It happens to all of us.   

[Desdemona]

Desi - I went back and corrected the original and I think most of the quotes.  Please don't worry about it.  It happens to all of us.   

             

[Desdemona]

Okay.  At a late hour on a Sunday night, I elected to dive into Cindy's very lengthy (excruciating to watch) FBI interview, conducted by agent Scott Bolin on July 30, two weeks after Casey was first arrested.  The point was to search for two things we were discussing earlier.  Here is my "report."    

1.  Did Cindy give an oddly brief and demure reaction to the question asked of her:  Whether there had been abuse of any kind in the family?
and
2.  What was the story about Lee's illness, and did Cindy say it had affected Casey in some way?
----------------

1.  Part 6, around 21:00 -- Cindy is asked whether there has been any abuse within the family, "physical, emotional, sexual, substance?"  Cindy's posture and demeanor are markedly different here than in most of the rest of the interview.  She is stoop-shouldered, small, very still, with arms crossed in front.  She gives a very small shake of her head and replies in a soft voice, "no."  This is a stark contrast to 99% of this extremely long interview. 

Agent Scott Bolin had been reading from a questionnaire intended to give them a picture of Casey's personality.  Cindy has answered almost every question in an expansive, rapid-fire manner, gesturing, posing, touching/rubbing/scratching her face and body, focusing on herself and her own thoughts rather than keeping the answers on the subject:  Casey.  Cindy's answers are not direct or simple; they are often off-subject.  She babbles forcefully on and on.  Her speech is filled with self-corrections, justifications, multiple tangents, etc.  She is all about trying to control the situation.   (See below.)  So yes, the meek little quiet answer to the abuse question, "no" - definitely stands out.
----------------

2a.  Part 6, around 29:00 -- Regarding Lee's illness:  When asked about the religious beliefs of Casey and the family, Cindy stated (in part) that the family did not attend church or belong to an organized religion, "but we all pray."  "Lee is the only one that - I think a few years ago when he was in high school - kinda lost his faith a little bit.  He was very ill; when you see things like that..."  "Lee will wear his cross that I gave him" but it's only because his mother gave it to him.  "He would be the one to say, 'unknown' or 'not sure'" if you asked him about religion.

2b.  Parts 7-8 -- Cindy goes into detail about Lee's illness when asked this question: 

Q:  What significant stressors has she(Casey) experienced?
A:  I think the biggest stressor in her life was her brother's illness, when he was 16 and she was 13.  Lee, um, Lee had um, "ITP" [...] which means he had no platelets, very low platelets, which means he was at risk of hemorrhaging, not being able to clot, as a result of taking Accutane, Accutane for his acne, and it put him in the hospital and put him on restrictions.  It was just before his 16th birthday.. He wasn't allowed to drive, it was a year before he could get his license because he had to be very very careful - it took months and months and months going to the doctor a couple of times weekly, and there was a lot of stress and I think--

Q:  How did she handle it? [trying to bring the topic back to Casey]
A:  She was very supportive.  I don't think any of us handled it well.  Lee went into a depression.  I think that's the time when he felt like there was no God or whatever and um, she was very supportive -- but he kind of withdrew; didn't really want to talk to a lot of people then; um, but she, she, coped very well... I mean, trying to encourage him to bring friends over, things like that, um, as we all did, but we gave him his space when he asked for it, um, you know. Would I have done something different?  I probably would have sought out some help for him, I mean he couldn't participate in sports for almost a year, couldn't drive a car, had to sit in the back seat, had to be well-protected.  That was very difficult, I mean, it was a change in all of our lifestyles -- She was used to going out and playing basketball with him, fooling around with his friends. [Goes on about her and George coaching a basketball team for kids and being active for years in FBBA]... team that was made up of all those friends that she knew, went to the games and cheered them on, and things like that, well, very close.  I think that was probably the biggest stressor...
[Cindy's answer about "stressors" goes on quite a bit longer, but this was it for Lee's illness.]
----------------

http://www.wftv.com/news/18032990/detail.html
Note:  While revisiting Cindy's mind-numbing 11-part interview, I stumbled across some other intriguing "gems" which I will report on next time I'm in the cage.

[tupelohoney]

Good Morning Monkeys!!

Since you taught me how to post videos,  , .....


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/sK8t2YcQE5w&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/sK8t2YcQE5w&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

[tupelohoney]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/YxJjgQcF-NU&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/v/YxJjgQcF-NU&amp;hl=en&amp;fs=1</a>

[can]

Desdemona - I found your post #1711 very interesting and thought provoking and thank you for it!
Can't wait to read your next report.

Than you to all you brilliant Monkeys who do such amazing research!!!

GOOD MORNING MONKEYS!

[Bearlyhere]

Good post Bearly.I could see it happening like you just said.
I think the whole bunch is prone to violence.
In the back of my mind I've always thought she wanted her parents gone....for starters.

Thanks, Trimm.  It took me forever to put all the pieces together.  It is hard to think anyone could be that way.  It could only be done by fitting the puzzle pieces together.  Thankfully, I could never thing like an Anthony woman.