Haleigh Marie Cummings #17 6/26/09 - 8/6/09

[Searching]

Now wait a minute, I will read back but I thought for sure you stated that you continue to state she is not alive due to the profilers (plural) and when asked what profilers, you posted CVZ'z writings.  So basically, you just insinuated that "profilers" are stating she was dead? 

Searching, I do believe you are Correct.. 

What CVZ projected, was done so on March 13, 2009.  I would really love to see what he has to say about the case based on his observations today... This was his projection on March 13th, and he speculates on his opinion on that date.

"Van Zandt lists four possible explanations for Haleigh’s disappearance, which included a random kidnapping by a child predator, a mistaken kidnapping with the incorrect target, a kidnapping to punish Ron Cummings due to his known involvement in drug activities (he calls a drug related kidnapping “not unusual”), or a kidnapping committed by someone known to Ron and Misty. He also mentioned that she could have been injured at home and the kidnapping is a “cover up to hid the actual reason for her absence.”

As information is obtained, profilers do have a tendency to change their speculated opinions.  Today he might well be of a different opinion.

Thank you mlee. I have a feeling you are correct, he thinks differently today as those were written in I believe March, 4+ months ago.

  He does?????? Where have you found a link to what he thinks now as I personally would love to see that


IMO~no new info has been obtained.

Apparently you missed the bolded part.

No, I was looking my boded part......... .

Well then, Maybe you should read the entire post instead of picking a part of it that you can use to try to make someone look bad as well as be snide about.

Edit to fix my own post, hit enter to soon.

I am going to do some things. I came here to see if anything new about Haleigh and obviously, nothings changed, so I will check back some other time.

[mlee]

Read into it what you will Searching, but don't put words in my mouth as I NEVER insisted she was dead, I stated the facts don't add up to what Ron and Misty are trying to spin to LE (the comments I shared show CVZ agrees that they don't) and she's been missing for almost 6 months, if even the FBI profilers think Ron and Misty's stories are a lie, and she is still missing ......if she is alive then why aren't Ron and Misty doing anything about clearing up the inconsitencies as I'd assume they would want to find her. In my world 2 + 2=4............

 I have not put words into your mouth at all. You are consistently stating that you believe her to be dead. I have not heard or read anywhere lately that LE is still stating Ron and Misty are lying, matter of fact, I do not believe they ever have. There is no reason at all for you to be so snippy. I responded to Thunder Bunny yesterday and you were all over me like white on rice. I put a generalization in my post yesterday,not any certain name, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Unfortunately, this case is not a 2+2 = 4.....  That is a generalization..  This case involves both families, not just one family, not just two people.  Both families are not off the list.  Not one of the players in this case has clean hands.....  I know more truth's about this case now, than I knew 4 months ago..  I know more about the family relationships prior and after Haleigh went missing.  To stand on one side or the other..  doesn't make sense to me..  If yo stand in the middle and look from the outside in, and totally neutral.. You will begin to realize exactly what I am talking about.  But, you won't see it until you do.

[no rose colored glasses]

We may never know what happened to Haleigh, just like so many others who have gone missing. This is a cold case, and I wouldn't doubt for a second that LE has cut back a lot in investigating this case.

[no rose colored glasses]

Read into it what you will Searching, but don't put words in my mouth as I NEVER insisted she was dead, I stated the facts don't add up to what Ron and Misty are trying to spin to LE (the comments I shared show CVZ agrees that they don't) and she's been missing for almost 6 months, if even the FBI profilers think Ron and Misty's stories are a lie, and she is still missing ......if she is alive then why aren't Ron and Misty doing anything about clearing up the inconsitencies as I'd assume they would want to find her. In my world 2 + 2=4............

 I have not put words into your mouth at all. You are consistently stating that you believe her to be dead. I have not heard or read anywhere lately that LE is still stating Ron and Misty are lying, matter of fact, I do not believe they ever have. There is no reason at all for you to be so snippy. I responded to Thunder Bunny yesterday and you were all over me like white on rice. I put a generalization in my post yesterday,not any certain name, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Unfortunately, this case is not a 2+2 = 4.....  That is a generalization..  This case involves both families, not just one family, not just two people.  Both families are not off the list.  Not one of the players in this case has clean hands.....  I know more truth's about this case now, than I knew 4 months ago..  I know more about the family relationships prior and after Haleigh went missing.  To stand on one side or the other..  doesn't make sense to me..  If yo stand in the middle and look from the outside in, and totally neutral.. You will begin to realize exactly what I am talking about.  But, you won't see it until you do.

So tell us what you think?

[mlee]

Read into it what you will Searching, but don't put words in my mouth as I NEVER insisted she was dead, I stated the facts don't add up to what Ron and Misty are trying to spin to LE (the comments I shared show CVZ agrees that they don't) and she's been missing for almost 6 months, if even the FBI profilers think Ron and Misty's stories are a lie, and she is still missing ......if she is alive then why aren't Ron and Misty doing anything about clearing up the inconsitencies as I'd assume they would want to find her. In my world 2 + 2=4............

 I have not put words into your mouth at all. You are consistently stating that you believe her to be dead. I have not heard or read anywhere lately that LE is still stating Ron and Misty are lying, matter of fact, I do not believe they ever have. There is no reason at all for you to be so snippy. I responded to Thunder Bunny yesterday and you were all over me like white on rice. I put a generalization in my post yesterday,not any certain name, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Unfortunately, this case is not a 2+2 = 4.....  That is a generalization..  This case involves both families, not just one family, not just two people.  Both families are not off the list.  Not one of the players in this case has clean hands.....  I know more truth's about this case now, than I knew 4 months ago..  I know more about the family relationships prior and after Haleigh went missing.  To stand on one side or the other..  doesn't make sense to me..  If yo stand in the middle and look from the outside in, and totally neutral.. You will begin to realize exactly what I am talking about.  But, you won't see it until you do.

So tell us what you think?

My opinion.. you have two motives.  Jealousy and  Child Support.

[no rose colored glasses]

So with jealousy and child support it would have to be someone on Crystal's side of the family. Jealousy, I'm not sure where that fits, because I can't imagine that Crystal would be jealous of that nasty little Misty.

[mlee]

So with jealousy and child support it would have to be someone on Crystal's side of the family. Jealousy, I'm not sure where that fits, because I can't imagine that Crystal would be jealous of that nasty little Misty.

thats as far as I can go..  your going to have to trust me..

[no rose colored glasses]

So with jealousy and child support it would have to be someone on Crystal's side of the family. Jealousy, I'm not sure where that fits, because I can't imagine that Crystal would be jealous of that nasty little Misty.

thats as far as I can go..  your going to have to trust me..

 

[mlee]

Hello Grama... come on in an play...

[islandmonkey]

Read into it what you will Searching, but don't put words in my mouth as I NEVER insisted she was dead, I stated the facts don't add up to what Ron and Misty are trying to spin to LE (the comments I shared show CVZ agrees that they don't) and she's been missing for almost 6 months, if even the FBI profilers think Ron and Misty's stories are a lie, and she is still missing ......if she is alive then why aren't Ron and Misty doing anything about clearing up the inconsitencies as I'd assume they would want to find her. In my world 2 + 2=4............

 I have not put words into your mouth at all. You are consistently stating that you believe her to be dead. I have not heard or read anywhere lately that LE is still stating Ron and Misty are lying, matter of fact, I do not believe they ever have. There is no reason at all for you to be so snippy. I responded to Thunder Bunny yesterday and you were all over me like white on rice. I put a generalization in my post yesterday,not any certain name, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Actually I've not read LE state anything lately, nor do I think they did even a mediocre investigation.......they even admitted in the first month that they called it an abduction because it got more bang for the buck I'm not being snippy, just stating my opinions and why. I don't recall being all over you like white on rice or being snide, that being said you are entitled to your opinion, as to the last sentence directed at me~I wont even dignify that with a response as it deserves none

[no rose colored glasses]

Hello Grama... come on in an play...

I'm just trying to understand, if a family member has Haleigh somewhere, what in the world are they trying to accomplish by this, this just makes no sense to me. 

[islandmonkey]

So with jealousy and child support it would have to be someone on Crystal's side of the family. Jealousy, I'm not sure where that fits, because I can't imagine that Crystal would be jealous of that nasty little Misty.

thats as far as I can go..  your going to have to trust me..

 

 

I don't see it either NRCG~she would still have had to pay the back child support and I can't imagine her being jealous of Misty.........but, no matter what anyone thinks, Haleigh disappeared from Ron's MH while under the care of a drugged out teenager, not on Crystal's watch, if things were different-I'd be looking at her side but they are what they are

[no rose colored glasses]

So with jealousy and child support it would have to be someone on Crystal's side of the family. Jealousy, I'm not sure where that fits, because I can't imagine that Crystal would be jealous of that nasty little Misty.

thats as far as I can go..  your going to have to trust me..

 

 

I don't see it either NRCG~she would still have had to pay the back child support and I can't imagine her being jealous of Misty.........but, no matter what anyone thinks, Haleigh disappeared from Ron's MH while under the care of a drugged out teenager, not on Crystal's watch, if things were different-I'd be looking at her side but they are what they are

I agree, and those two little ones should never have been left with that irresponsible girl, but too late for that. It is all just a dirty shame. 

[islandmonkey]

So with jealousy and child support it would have to be someone on Crystal's side of the family. Jealousy, I'm not sure where that fits, because I can't imagine that Crystal would be jealous of that nasty little Misty.

thats as far as I can go..  your going to have to trust me..

 

 

I don't see it either NRCG~she would still have had to pay the back child support and I can't imagine her being jealous of Misty.........but, no matter what anyone thinks, Haleigh disappeared from Ron's MH while under the care of a drugged out teenager, not on Crystal's watch, if things were different-I'd be looking at her side but they are what they are

I agree, and those two little ones should never have been left with that irresponsible girl, but too late for that. It is all just a dirty shame. 

It is indeed to late which is sad, poor kids never stood a chance.........

I'm with you on thinking this may very well be one of those cases that's never solved

[mlee]

The concept that Haleigh must now be dead, is generated only by a statical basis, a generality.  Based on Evidence at hand versus No Evidence at hand. And only some peoples opinion, not based on any evidence currently held by Le.   And done so, to discourage the concept that anyone should continue searching for a living child.

[no rose colored glasses]

The concept that Haleigh must now be dead, is generated only by a statical basis, a generality.  Based on Evidence at hand versus No Evidence at hand. And only some peoples opinion, not based on any evidence currently held by Le.   And done so, to discourage the concept that anyone should continue searching for a living child.

But are they bothering to search for a living child? And where would they start looking for a living child at? If LE thinks that a family member took Haleigh, then maybe they need to search the homes of relatives that they feel would have a motive to kidnap her, and the means to keep her hidden. And since she isn't the healthiest of children, someone would have to take her to the doctor eventually, and what about school?

[islandmonkey]

The concept that Haleigh must now be dead, is generated only by a statical basis, a generality.  Based on Evidence at hand versus No Evidence at hand. And only some peoples opinion, not based on any evidence currently held by Le.   And done so, to discourage the concept that anyone should continue searching for a living child.

But are they bothering to search for a living child? And where would they start looking for a living child at? If LE thinks that a family member took Haleigh, then maybe they need to search the homes of relatives that they feel would have a motive to kidnap her, and the means to keep her hidden. And since she isn't the healthiest of children, someone would have to take her to the doctor eventually, and what about school?

AND why just Haleigh???? Why NO sightings of her??

[no rose colored glasses]

If Haleigh is alive, I really believe somebody by now would have either seen her and would have become suspicious and reported it to LE. Unless of course they have her in a house, and she hasn't been outside for all this time. And to me that makes no sense, because if a family member took her, I would imagine for her own good, so why punish the child by not letting her see her mom, dad, and brother? What would they be waiting for, the perfect time to let Haleigh go home?

[islandmonkey]

If Haleigh is alive, I really believe somebody by now would have either seen her and would have become suspicious and reported it to LE. Unless of course they have her in a house, and she hasn't been outside for all this time. And to me that makes no sense, because if a family member took her, I would imagine for her own good, so why punish the child by not letting her see her mom, dad, and brother? What would they be waiting for, the perfect time to let Haleigh go home?

I agree, but most that believe this IIRC think due to leaks in the LE that she is being moved .. Several posters over there summed it up perfectly about this theory:


That someone would stage the MH to look like an abduction, take Haleigh, leave Jr and have people discuss that this was because of a future custody battle? ok.

Or the one about staging the MH to look like an abduction in order to rescue one child from harm and leave the other in harm's way? ok.

Theorizing that someone in Crystal's family could have taken Haleigh for either of these purposes means that this person had to have been made aware of the layout of the MH, the sleeping arrangements, Misty's habits for sleeping, the best way to get into and out of the MH without being detected by neighbors who may be looking, putting themselves at risk of discovery in both the entrance into the MH as well as the exit out of it, not to mention having to deal with Misty should she still be awake. Risking that Misty would have awakened at all seems a risk that only a fool would think of taking....not necessarily improbable, of course.

There is only one way to that trailer from Buffalo Bluffs road. Only one way to get away from it. There are two doors into the trailer. Both doors are visible to neighbors. The front door may provide more coverage as an entrance/exit, but then why stage the back door? The back door has nothing to provide it cover. It is a poor choice for anyone to pick as an ingress/egress. Of course it is possible that someone could have gone through the woods and accessed the trailer by parking their vehicle in another spot, then carried Haleigh all the way back to their vehicle, but we deal again with the visibility of getting out of that house. It is a great risk, and only a fool would take it, especially so close to the time when Ronald is known to be coming home.

For instance, Misty states she went to bed at 10-10:30. Give her the average 20 minutes to fall asleep, even 15 after the busy cleaning she had done up to that point, and the partying she'd be recovering from over the weekend before, and she's gonna be sleeping pretty hard. But 4 1/2 hours later, "she saw 3" and she was awake due to body functions of needing to go to the bathroom/get water. It is not improbable that someone waited until they saw the lights go off to make their move, so "just to be safe" waited another hour or so before going in. But then the staging makes no sense again. Why sit and wait, only to stage the door? Why not get in, get out and get gone? obviously in this theory, someone is at least watching what the patterns MIGHT be, but they can't know for sure. And they definitely don't know where the kids are sleeping. There would have been no way to know that until entrance (even if Misty took the blanket off the window, there would be no way a perp, sitting in the woods watching, could see UP into the trailer and DOWN onto the floor of the bedroom to the OTHER side of the bed to see where Haleigh was laying.)

So, this watcher in the woods waits, sees the bedroom light go off and is able to get into the trailer, traverse his/her way through the laundry on the floor, sneak into a squeaky-floored house, never rousing Jr or Misty and putting them on high alert that something was out of place (could happen; my granddaughter sleeps like a zombie) and goes right to where Haleigh is and takes her, still not waking Misty or Jr with the whole thing, impressively hoists the child up from the prone limp position of zombie sleep into their arms, back out the door of the bedroom, through the house and out.

Since Haleigh is in fact NOT in that MH by the time Ronald gets home, it is easy to see why people would conclude this must be what happened, instead of viewing all the components and being able to see why it most likely did NOT happen this way. As you state, Flossie, it doesn't shoot the theory down for you. Ok.

But not only does it shoot down the theory for me, it leaves only one theory that I can work with, and that is that something happened to Haleigh long before that 911 call was made and everything else was staged to make it appear as though she were snatched by a perp, known or unknown.

Debs,

You just slapped me back to reality, a reality I hate.... I tried re enacting the whole event but as we started into it, it just felt wrong, like the person was taking too many risks or had to know so much about the people inside in order to pull this off. Any way, every time I go back to the details of that night and the people surrounding the case, I feel like you. I hope this comes to an end soon. Thanks


Credit DEBS and  BERN at WS

[islandmonkey]

If Haleigh is alive, I really believe somebody by now would have either seen her and would have become suspicious and reported it to LE. Unless of course they have her in a house, and she hasn't been outside for all this time. And to me that makes no sense, because if a family member took her, I would imagine for her own good, so why punish the child by not letting her see her mom, dad, and brother? What would they be waiting for, the perfect time to let Haleigh go home?

I agree, but most that believe this IIRC think due to leaks in the LE that she is being moved .. Several posters over there summed it up perfectly about this theory:


That someone would stage the MH to look like an abduction, take Haleigh, leave Jr and have people discuss that this was because of a future custody battle? ok.

Or the one about staging the MH to look like an abduction in order to rescue one child from harm and leave the other in harm's way? ok.

Theorizing that someone in Crystal's family could have taken Haleigh for either of these purposes means that this person had to have been made aware of the layout of the MH, the sleeping arrangements, Misty's habits for sleeping, the best way to get into and out of the MH without being detected by neighbors who may be looking, putting themselves at risk of discovery in both the entrance into the MH as well as the exit out of it, not to mention having to deal with Misty should she still be awake. Risking that Misty would have awakened at all seems a risk that only a fool would think of taking....not necessarily improbable, of course.

There is only one way to that trailer from Buffalo Bluffs road. Only one way to get away from it. There are two doors into the trailer. Both doors are visible to neighbors. The front door may provide more coverage as an entrance/exit, but then why stage the back door? The back door has nothing to provide it cover. It is a poor choice for anyone to pick as an ingress/egress. Of course it is possible that someone could have gone through the woods and accessed the trailer by parking their vehicle in another spot, then carried Haleigh all the way back to their vehicle, but we deal again with the visibility of getting out of that house. It is a great risk, and only a fool would take it, especially so close to the time when Ronald is known to be coming home.

For instance, Misty states she went to bed at 10-10:30. Give her the average 20 minutes to fall asleep, even 15 after the busy cleaning she had done up to that point, and the partying she'd be recovering from over the weekend before, and she's gonna be sleeping pretty hard. But 4 1/2 hours later, "she saw 3" and she was awake due to body functions of needing to go to the bathroom/get water. It is not improbable that someone waited until they saw the lights go off to make their move, so "just to be safe" waited another hour or so before going in. But then the staging makes no sense again. Why sit and wait, only to stage the door? Why not get in, get out and get gone? obviously in this theory, someone is at least watching what the patterns MIGHT be, but they can't know for sure. And they definitely don't know where the kids are sleeping. There would have been no way to know that until entrance (even if Misty took the blanket off the window, there would be no way a perp, sitting in the woods watching, could see UP into the trailer and DOWN onto the floor of the bedroom to the OTHER side of the bed to see where Haleigh was laying.)

So, this watcher in the woods waits, sees the bedroom light go off and is able to get into the trailer, traverse his/her way through the laundry on the floor, sneak into a squeaky-floored house, never rousing Jr or Misty and putting them on high alert that something was out of place (could happen; my granddaughter sleeps like a zombie) and goes right to where Haleigh is and takes her, still not waking Misty or Jr with the whole thing, impressively hoists the child up from the prone limp position of zombie sleep into their arms, back out the door of the bedroom, through the house and out.

Since Haleigh is in fact NOT in that MH by the time Ronald gets home, it is easy to see why people would conclude this must be what happened, instead of viewing all the components and being able to see why it most likely did NOT happen this way. As you state, Flossie, it doesn't shoot the theory down for you. Ok.

But not only does it shoot down the theory for me, it leaves only one theory that I can work with, and that is that something happened to Haleigh long before that 911 call was made and everything else was staged to make it appear as though she were snatched by a perp, known or unknown.

Debs,

You just slapped me back to reality, a reality I hate.... I tried re enacting the whole event but as we started into it, it just felt wrong, like the person was taking too many risks or had to know so much about the people inside in order to pull this off. Any way, every time I go back to the details of that night and the people surrounding the case, I feel like you. I hope this comes to an end soon. Thanks


Credit DEBS and  BERN at WS

  Sorry, forgot the link:

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86689&page=5