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Author Topic: Amber Leeanne Dubois #2 (remains found 3/6/10) 1/15/10 - 7/3/13  (Read 443670 times)
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Edward
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« Reply #1600 on: May 02, 2010, 10:47:57 AM »

LOL... I did not want to say this but..

I think he is the fem half of a homosexual.

It was suggested there may be an accomplice.... That very well could be the masculine half and he is taking the rap so to speak for him.

In prison life.. The world of homosexual is much different then the outside word percieves GAY. It is a world of violent domonation...

That is what happened to both girls when you consider it.

jmho
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Edward
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« Reply #1601 on: May 02, 2010, 12:39:35 PM »

I should post a disclaimer..
I have nothing against the gay or lesbian community.. do what ever you want.
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« Reply #1602 on: May 02, 2010, 02:45:33 PM »

Yea Edward his voice has a certain inflection that I was not expecting. I think I was expecting his voice to be deeper and more rough and it was not at all.

http://www.cbs8.com/Global/story.asp?S=12402060

What does Gardner's interview reveal about him?
Posted: Apr 29, 2010 7:41 PM PDT
Updated: May 01, 2010 10:05 AM PDT
 
 Click image to enlargeRelated
News 8 Exclusive: John Gardner - In His Own WordsSAN DIEGO, Calif. (CBS Cool - There has been strong reaction to News 8's jailhouse interview with John Gardner. News 8 asked a local psychiatrist to listen to the interview and offer his professional opinion.

In his first interview since confessing to the murders of teens Chelsea King and Amber Dubois, John Gardner says he's talking because he has nothing to lose.

"I was aware of what I was doing, and I could not stop myself. I was in a major rage, and pissed off, and pissed off at my whole life, and everyone who had hurt me, and blew up, and I hurt the wrong people."

Psychiatrist Dr. Philip Botkiss watched our interview with Gardner and says Gardner may very well be a sociopath.

"I can dictate who I talk to, I can dictate when I talk to that person, I didn't have to do a plea bargain, other people did that for me -- this is his way of exerting control and I think that's a function of how desperate and out of control he really is," Dr. Botkiss said.

In the interview, Gardner told News 8 he did not specifically target his victims.

"It wasn't about their age with me. I didn't actually go out and look for them, I did not sit and wait for them. I go to calm myself, I go for walks to calm myself. I'll go for a walk or for a drive just to calm down," Gardner said.

"I think there's a huge jump that one makes between going out for walks because of anger and committing a heinous crime," Dr. Botkiss said.

Gardner also claims that if more money had been put into local schools, Amber may still be alive.

"If there was a bus schedule still, would Amber still be here, blah blah blah. Yeah, she would have, if there was a bus, so why don't they put that money toward the schools?" he said.

"That's another way of rationalizing ,externalizing, blaming others for what he's done. He is going to blame that he was molested, that he has mental problems, that the bus was not there for Amber. And this is his way of rationalizing his behavior," Dr. Botkiss said.

Because of our interview with Gardner, Amber's mother Carrie McGonigle told News 8 she wants to meet face-to-face with Gardner and get some answers about how he targeted her daughter.

"I'm hoping he gives my family some closure. I hope he answers the questions like he says he will, because I have the questions I want to ask," McGonigle said.

But Dr. Botkiss has a warning about meeting with Gardner.

"I think that they will believe that it may help them, because they are probably very eager to put some closure on this, and they'll probably see that as part of this process. But I just don't think that what he says can be believed. Because if he is indeed sociopathic, he can say anything he wants. And ultimately this may be a very negative experience for the family, because he may use that interaction in a way to exert some kind of control over them too. That actually could be more devastating," Dr. Botkiss said.

News 8's decision to air John Gardner's jailhouse interview was not taken lightly. We knew it would be controversial, but in the end we felt the interview was newsworthy and the public had the right to know.

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sebastian
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« Reply #1603 on: May 02, 2010, 04:55:33 PM »

LOL... I did not want to say this but..

I think he is the fem half of a homosexual.

It was suggested there may be an accomplice.... That very well could be the masculine half and he is taking the rap so to speak for him.

In prison life.. The world of homosexual is much different then the outside word percieves GAY. It is a world of violent domonation...

That is what happened to both girls when you consider it.

jmho

Wasn't it supposed to be a male that sexually abused Gardner when he was young? If that is in fact true, I wonder if there was any violent domination in that situation. I also cannot help but wonder if there are any male victims out there.
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piwannaberookie
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« Reply #1604 on: May 02, 2010, 05:00:05 PM »

I think armchair is right, he is looking for groupies, fans, money, maybe even a book deal. He is trying to make the best out of his situation and the worst for amber and chelsea's parents b/c he has nothing else better to do. About his voice, I think it's because he didn't have a real father figure to demonstrate to him how to talk and do things growing up and his mom took care of him all of his life, so I think that is why he talks that way....but that is how i see it, he does have the same neck as his mom like klaasend pointed out, just saying...there could be other reasons why he talks that way but I guess that he uses his voice to convince people he is not bad and is a nice person to be around, he kinnd of reminds me of Tiger Woods, but Tiger Woods doesn't seem as sociopathic.
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« Reply #1605 on: May 02, 2010, 05:05:35 PM »

LOL... I did not want to say this but..

I think he is the fem half of a homosexual.

It was suggested there may be an accomplice.... That very well could be the masculine half and he is taking the rap so to speak for him.

In prison life.. The world of homosexual is much different then the outside word percieves GAY. It is a world of violent domonation...

That is what happened to both girls when you consider it.

jmho

Wasn't it supposed to be a male that sexually abused Gardner when he was young? If that is in fact true, I wonder if there was any violent domination in that situation. I also cannot help but wonder if there are any male victims out there.

i think it said in the terms of parole pdf indirectly it was stated that an uncle may have abused him.
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« Reply #1606 on: May 02, 2010, 09:07:51 PM »

if he was abused by an uncle, i think he could have become homophobic, maybe developed some kind of aggressive behavior/fear of homo/bi males, but that is just what I think. I am by no means a psychiatrist or psychologist, so please correct me if i am wrong.
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« Reply #1607 on: May 02, 2010, 09:38:39 PM »

i dont know how gardner could think a bus schedule could have prevented him from getting to amber. School bus transportation costs like $300 every three months in some cities as opposed to walking to school which costs zero that is if you live close by.

The parents have to pay for bus transportation of course, not all can afford bus transportation like that, and city transit buses can carry about 15-20 passengers per bus, and you still have to wait by yourself at the bus stop and not all of them have a bench for you to sit on. Some kids like to walk to school, maybe they like walking too, don't kids have a right to walk to school even if it is by themselves? Not everyone is going to have a friend to walk with in my opinion..when I was a 12-16 I walked by myself a lot of times, never once did I think or know about any sex offenders. Busses dont take you directly to your house, you still have to walk at least some distance to get to your house.

Isn't there a reason for what a school cross walk and school crossing guards are for...? Also that is why the speed limit is 25 mph around school/residential areas, maybe Gardner thinks that the speed limit should be faster like 55 so nobody is able to stop or drive slow enough to ask a young person if he/she wants a ride home. I know Gardner is just trying to find ways to defend himself and feel less remorse as possible...I hope in court all the statements he makes to these news reporters are taken seriously, because it shows he has no idea what he is talking about and doesn't really care for what he did, it reminds me of how Phillip Garrido went to some school or city council/police department, i cant remember, and he was trying to find a way to alert parents about how to keep their children safe when walking to the bus stop or school when he himself had abducted 11 year old jaycee dugard years ago.

I think that Gardner should have just started recycling, that is picking up bottles and cans if he was so stressed out and was poor, homeless, and living out of his truck, I bet that would have taken his mind off things he shouldnt have been doing, or at least then somebody would have noticed him before he could have done anything to hurt anybody.
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« Reply #1608 on: May 02, 2010, 09:57:39 PM »

IMO...Gardner is not truly remorseful!  He did not give names/locations of other victims.  He laughed at the question...who laughs at such a question...when pleading guilty (because he felt bad) of raping and killing two other girls and attacking another?  Who laughs?  Who says "Ha Ha good try"...as though this were some sort of game?  I have yet to listen to the actual interview...but, I am heading to it...I am curious to hear this "voice" that other monkeys are commenting on.  Did anyone hear what age he was abused?  There may be a relation.  Possibly.  I think there is a part of him that is sorry...but, a part that will never be bigger than the part that kills.  I would guess that he was rarely held accountable for his actions...his mother/family/girlfriends probably took care of any mess he made and he feels a sense of entitlement.  Though that is most of the new generation...and that doesn't make anyone kill...but, it sure doesn't help someone that is predisposed to this.
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"It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities." Sir Josiah Stamp

“I don't have anything to gain. It's not going to save my daughter's life. But it could save your daughter's life.”  ~Mark Lunsford
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« Reply #1609 on: May 02, 2010, 10:06:47 PM »

I think maybe the main point in all of this is that Gardner is trying to tell everyone he tried to get help, but could not find any help .Is there really any proof/evidence that he was trying to get help? If so how? Therefore, there is nothing he or anyone can do to convince  there was anything anyone could have done to stop him. If he makes any money  out of this, I think it should go back to the victims' families so they do whatever they want with it, if there is a way he can pay back for everything he has done, I don't think anyone should stop him, just as long as he doesn't get out of prison, I just think he owes it to both Amber and Chelsea's parents, whether they want to have anything to do with him or not they deserve to see him punished, I just don't think life in prison is enough, just my opinion....
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Edward
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« Reply #1610 on: May 02, 2010, 11:15:45 PM »

LOL... I did not want to say this but..

I think he is the fem half of a homosexual.

It was suggested there may be an accomplice.... That very well could be the masculine half and he is taking the rap so to speak for him.

In prison life.. The world of homosexual is much different then the outside word percieves GAY. It is a world of violent domonation...

That is what happened to both girls when you consider it.

jmho

Wasn't it supposed to be a male that sexually abused Gardner when he was young? If that is in fact true, I wonder if there was any violent domination in that situation. I also cannot help but wonder if there are any male victims out there.

The Uncle and then Prison..
Raped in prison so he becomes fem from past training.
Prison is violent and NOT loving a person will turn fem for various reasons inside
1.protection
2. Develops Sociopatic stradigy.
3. To get things they want or need inside prison.
3. Once out of prison he may find a Dom in public life for the same reasons..

The question is would he supply a Dominate Male outside of prison with young girls ?
Together they rape and murder the victim.. ??
It would explain the cell phone the next day..

He lies too much.. He should have kept his mouth shut because now I see him.

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« Reply #1611 on: May 02, 2010, 11:20:49 PM »

nvm I don't think there is a main point to Gardner, I think that a previous abuse from a male relative could be another reason for Channel 8 to interview Gardner. Labubske, I agree that Gardner thinks this is a game, the interview shows he is not a mature adult, something must have happened to him or didn't happen to him right b/c he doesnt behave maturely that is with sex or relationships with women.
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« Reply #1612 on: May 02, 2010, 11:26:32 PM »

LOL... I did not want to say this but..

I think he is the fem half of a homosexual.

It was suggested there may be an accomplice.... That very well could be the masculine half and he is taking the rap so to speak for him.

In prison life.. The world of homosexual is much different then the outside word percieves GAY. It is a world of violent domonation...

That is what happened to both girls when you consider it.

jmho

Wasn't it supposed to be a male that sexually abused Gardner when he was young? If that is in fact true, I wonder if there was any violent domination in that situation. I also cannot help but wonder if there are any male victims out there.

The Uncle and then Prison..
Raped in prison so he becomes fem from past training.
Prison is violent and NOT loving a person will turn fem for various reasons inside
1.protection
2. Develops Sociopatic stradigy.
3. To get things they want or need inside prison.
3. Once out of prison he may find a Dom in public life for the same reasons..

The question is would he supply a Dominate Male outside of prison with young girls ?
Together they rape and murder the victim.. ??
It would explain the cell phone the next day..

He lies too much.. He should have kept his mouth shut because now I see him.



you could be on to something, this is definitely something I haven't heard before...
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« Reply #1613 on: May 02, 2010, 11:36:22 PM »

I think maybe the main point in all of this is that Gardner is trying to tell everyone he tried to get help, but could not find any help .Is there really any proof/evidence that he was trying to get help? If so how? Therefore, there is nothing he or anyone can do to convince  there was anything anyone could have done to stop him. If he makes any money  out of this, I think it should go back to the victims' families so they do whatever they want with it, if there is a way he can pay back for everything he has done, I don't think anyone should stop him, just as long as he doesn't get out of prison, I just think he owes it to both Amber and Chelsea's parents, whether they want to have anything to do with him or not they deserve to see him punished, I just don't think life in prison is enough, just my opinion....

I agree that he is wanting to let people know that he tried to get help but couldn't.  Maybe in his mind he believes that he did everything that he could to get help...but, I doubt that he really did.  I am not sure how California is set up...but, in Florida if you want help you can get it.  There is no ER that can truly deny a mental health patient if they are serious.  With mom being in that field she should know the in's and out's and know where and how he could get help.  Even if the first twenty denied him.  Anything different than actually kidnapping and killing children.  I doubt there is ANYONE that would be denied mental health care if they stood in the middle of a public place and started acting extremely bizarre and threatening homicide or suicide...they would be involuntarily committed or jailed...either way he wouldn't be killing...so how hard did he try?  The above scenario would not work with his narcissism.
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"It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities." Sir Josiah Stamp

“I don't have anything to gain. It's not going to save my daughter's life. But it could save your daughter's life.”  ~Mark Lunsford
Edward
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« Reply #1614 on: May 03, 2010, 12:02:54 AM »

He is lying.. Looking for beleed hearts.

I bet he never tried to seek help.
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« Reply #1615 on: May 03, 2010, 02:25:18 AM »

He has a sociopathic personality and does not and cannot take full responsibility for what he does. It is someone elses doing that has caused him to murder, the responsibility is deflected off of him onto someone else or something else. He has to have complete control over every circumstance from telling the parents how the murders happened to not wanting the death penalty taken off the table. It is all about control. He is one sick puppy.

Speaking about male victims though, do you recall the list that was posted that was a series of small notes that seemed to me like he was stalking someone? I do wonder if that was his list and if they are some of his victims.
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« Reply #1616 on: May 03, 2010, 02:29:33 AM »

Just FYI I found this very interesting and thought I would share.

http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/personality_traits_of_a_psychopath


Personality Traits of a Psychopath
Characteristics of Sociopathic Personality Disorder
Share Article | Jul 30, 2008 Jennifer Copley

Psychopathy, also known as sociopathy, is a personality disorder characterized by selfishness, ruthlessness and the inability to feel guilt or empathy.
   


The psychopath is a social predator. He is ruthless, manipulative and often charming. Once referred to as “moral imbeciles,” psychopaths exhibit a marked lack of conscience. They are callous, remorseless and spectacularly self-centered, willing to use and abuse others to achieve their ends, and they are inclined to blame others, including their victims, for their problems and bad behaviour.

Psychotic Versus Psychopathic
Many people confuse the terms “psychotic” and “psychopathic,” but unlike psychotics, psychopaths are not crazy. They are fully aware of what they’re doing and the potential consequences. They make their decisions rationally, and exercise free choice. They don’t suffer from delusions or hallucinations, and they are not afflicted with the anxiety or anguish that the mentally ill usually suffer.

Psychopathic Versus Antisocial Personality Disorder
Psychopathy and antisocial personality disorder are similar but not identical. Antisocial personality disorder manifests as a constellation of antisocial and criminal behaviours. Psychopathy, by contrast, refers to a cluster of deviant personality traits and behaviours that do not necessarily include criminal activity. Psychopaths, while often dabbling on the border of criminality, may never actually commit crimes for which they could be arrested, and many people who commit crimes are not psychopaths (although the majority of extremely violent criminals are).

Superficial or Glib, with Shallow Emotions
Psychopaths tend to be articulate, amusing and witty. Although they may tell stories that should be unbelievable, they have a knack for doing so in a way that causes intelligent people to believe them. However, some may peg them as overly slick or insincere, alerted by the psychopath’s use of excessive flattery to manipulate people.

The shallow emotions of the psychopath are evident in the fact that many claim to love the people they have abused or even murdered. Most abandon their spouses and children, or mistreat them if they stick around. Those that do stay part of a family unit tend to view their families as possessions, existing to create a favourable impression of the psychopath to the world, and to serve his or her needs.

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The emotional capacity of the psychopath is extremely primitive, comprising “proto-emotions,” or reactions to immediate needs rather than the depth of feeling that others experience. When trying to manipulate others into feeling sympathy for them or guilt for questioning their motives, psychopaths can be quite dramatic and forceful, but this is a smoke-and-mirrors display, designed to obscure the lack of emotional depth the psychopath possesses.

Grandiose or Egocentric
Arrogant and shameless, psychopaths tend to brag. They are very self-assured, cocky and often domineering. They push their opinions onto others and can’t understand why anyone would disagree with them. Most have big plans for making money but these plans tend to be unrealistic and vague. Often they do not match the qualifications and experience the psychopath possesses. However, psychopaths are adept at encouraging others to give them money to support these plans.

The psychopath never feels that there is anything wrong with him or with his behaviour. It is everyone else who is in the wrong. He likes himself, and would not enter therapy voluntarily for any reason other than to impress a parole board or keep a human meal ticket from leaving.

No Empathy, Remorse or Guilt
Psychopaths are incapable of feeling guilt or remorse for anything they’ve done because they can’t empathize with others. They tend to view guilt as a liability or weakness in other people, and feel that they are superior because they don’t experience it and can therefore be as ruthless as they like.

Interviewed after committing horrible crimes, many psychopaths insist that their victims deserved it or even that they did their victims a favour. They rationalize, justify or deny any wrongdoing, while perceiving themselves as victims of an unfair society.

Exaggerated Need for Excitement
Psychopaths often break laws and take serious risks because they have a greater need for excitement than most people. Driven by intense feelings of boredom and a craving for ever-increasing thrills, such risks may include abusing substances, driving dangerously, playing extreme sports and engaging in violent activities. Of course the majority of substance abusers and extreme athletes are not psychopaths, but the psychopathic personality is drawn to such activities.

Ten Subtypes
There is not a single, simple formula for identifying psychopaths, though there are certainly ways to spot high-risk individuals. Theodore Millon, a personality theorist, has identified ten psychopathy subtypes: abrasive, covetous, disingenuous, explosive, malevolent, malignant, risk-taking, spineless, tyrannical and unprincipled. Each of these types will manifest a different set of traits. However, what they all have in common is the inability to feel guilt or empathy.

A Note of Caution
When reading about psychopathy, it’s tempting to diagnose difficult friends, family members, acquaintances and coworkers with the disorder, but only a trained professional can make an accurate diagnosis. Many people have one or two psychopathic traits without being psychopathic, and those under extreme stress, suffering from mental illness or abusing substances may manifest many of the symptoms without being psychopathic by nature.



Read more at Suite101: Personality Traits of a Psychopath: Characteristics of Sociopathic Personality Disorder http://personalitydisorders.suite101.com/article.cfm/personality_traits_of_a_psychopath#ixzz0mqTA1Fki
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Edward
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« Reply #1617 on: May 03, 2010, 12:59:35 PM »


I was considering most of my friends and my other half's family members as well as all politicians and CE-O's and then I included the rulers of other nations .. when I got to the last paragraph..
 

Our world is a mess.. jmho


 
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« Reply #1618 on: May 03, 2010, 01:42:07 PM »

lol edward many people do fit into the traits. A person very close to my family has the traits of a sociopath, they would not kill anyone but are very manipulative, self centered and honestly believes everything that has happened to them is the fault of everyone else! Very maddening to say the least. 

That interview with Gardner shows a man that has a very serious case. Carrie needs to be careful if she speaks to him about what happened to Amber. I am not so sure anymore it is a good idea. She might be playing right into his hands. I am afraid she may not even get the real truth but a version of the truth according to his soicopathic view point. I suspect he will even try to blame Carrie or Amber for her being there that morning. He might say something about if Amber didn't do this or if she did that, then he wouldn't have had to kill her. It is going to be an ugly twisted version I am sure. Carrie is a strong woman no one will doubt that but she is also human and is a mother. Lets just say, I thank God there will be guards there and glass seperating them. 
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« Reply #1619 on: May 04, 2010, 08:10:13 PM »

Has this link been posted?  It is a very good link.  It has a timeline of articles, videos, it has names mentioned and so on...you can type any name in the top to search.  This is JAGs.  http://interceder.net/news/john-albert-gardner
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"It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities." Sir Josiah Stamp

“I don't have anything to gain. It's not going to save my daughter's life. But it could save your daughter's life.”  ~Mark Lunsford
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