Natalee Case Discussion #821 7/13/09 - 7/28/09

[Tamikosmom]

Prior to Kyle Kingman's own words ever becoming an issue ... MumInOhio began having her doubts about CAPS and ... made a stand by questioning his flawed research ... discrepancies ... changing theories and ... overall distraction.  Then suddenly Mum backtracked.  I requested an explanation for the flip flop and ... was respectfully told that she was not ready to share.

What does it take to be deemed worthy to be among the "informed"?

 

Janet

+++++

Who said they are worthy and they are the ones informed.  Just because they "think" they are informed doesn't mean they are.

CAPS was a diversion and here to distract.  I never believed his crap and I never will.  JMO.

San ... I was being sarcastic.

Our prodical Monkeys were either deceived by somebody very influencial/pursuasive or ... they are part of the deception to protect John Silvetti ... to protect the Arubans ... from being held accountable for actions encompassing the trap issue.  IMO.

I would just love to know who has the power ... the influence ... to deceive prodical Monkeys like SS and MumInOhio who saw the light in regards to the Persistence/CAPS deception and ... then flip flopped and returned to the fold.

Janet

San

When Dave Holloway and Tim Miller's ongoing relationship with John Silvetti is considered and ... when the backtracking of SS and MumInOhio's respective positions of truth ... I am inclined to believe that whoever this master of deception is ... he would have the ability to sway any one of us with his logic.

 

Janet

[San]

Prior to Kyle Kingman's own words ever becoming an issue ... MumInOhio began having her doubts about CAPS and ... made a stand by questioning his flawed research ... discrepancies ... changing theories and ... overall distraction.  Then suddenly Mum backtracked.  I requested an explanation for the flip flop and ... was respectfully told that she was not ready to share.

What does it take to be deemed worthy to be among the "informed"?

 

Janet

+++++

Who said they are worthy and they are the ones informed.  Just because they "think" they are informed doesn't mean they are.

CAPS was a diversion and here to distract.  I never believed his crap and I never will.  JMO.

San ... I was being sarcastic.

Our prodical Monkeys were either deceived by somebody very influencial/pursuasive or ... they are part of the deception to protect John Silvetti ... to protect the Arubans ... from being held accountable for actions encompassing the trap issue.  IMO.

I would just love to know who has the power ... the influence ... to deceive prodical Monkeys like SS and MumInOhio who saw the light in regards to the Persistence/CAPS deception and ... then flip flopped and returned to the fold.

Janet

San

When Dave Holloway and Tim Miller's ongoing relationship with John Silvetti is considered and ... when the backtracking of SS and MumInOhio's respective positions of truth ... I am inclined to believe that whoever this master of deception is ... he would have the ability to sway any one of us with his logic.
 

Janet

I will disagree with this statement.  They did not and will not ever sway me from what I saw.  A picture is worth a thousand words.

[Tamikosmom]

Prior to Kyle Kingman's own words ever becoming an issue ... MumInOhio began having her doubts about CAPS and ... made a stand by questioning his flawed research ... discrepancies ... changing theories and ... overall distraction.  Then suddenly Mum backtracked.  I requested an explanation for the flip flop and ... was respectfully told that she was not ready to share.

What does it take to be deemed worthy to be among the "informed"?

 

Janet

+++++

Who said they are worthy and they are the ones informed.  Just because they "think" they are informed doesn't mean they are.

CAPS was a diversion and here to distract.  I never believed his crap and I never will.  JMO.

San ... I was being sarcastic.

Our prodical Monkeys were either deceived by somebody very influencial/pursuasive or ... they are part of the deception to protect John Silvetti ... to protect the Arubans ... from being held accountable for actions encompassing the trap issue.  IMO.

I would just love to know who has the power ... the influence ... to deceive prodical Monkeys like SS and MumInOhio who saw the light in regards to the Persistence/CAPS deception and ... then flip flopped and returned to the fold.

Janet

And where did it get Mum and SS.  What did they accomplish.  Were you fooled by them.  Did they influence you.
The only thing that influences people is money.

San

Mum and SS or any of the prodigal Monkeys have never shared any backup their positions.  They only undermine our positions for which backup is provided.

Janet

Edit: typo

[Tamikosmom]

I am off to church.

Janet
9:55 AM PT

[San]

I will carry on if this missing piece of the puzzle is not revealed ... however the emerging picture is not complete.

Help please!

Janet

++++++++++

DECEMBER 6, 2008

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #697 on: December 06, 2008, 03:26:15 PM »

I have pretty much been a believer that Natalee was buried on land, but after Kyle's calculations, I don't think so anymore.  Kyle is a trained oceanographer and he has been taught how to make those calculations of objects on the ocean floor.  Kyle's calculations are actually the first piece of scientific data that we have after three and a half years ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569178#msg569178


JANUARY 26, 2009

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #795 1/23/09 -
« Reply #508 on: January 26, 2009, 11:00:46 PM »

I don't believe Natalee was in the cage.  I have believed for a long time that Natalee was put in a cemetery ....

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4434.msg646440#msg646440

The way that I remember.....SS did have it all figured out.  Then she disappeared for a week.(when she joined C&G)
When she came back she said that she had been ill.
She then became like a different person.....mean and hateful...I had not seen that side of her before.
Then she posted all of that stuff about Kermit.
Maybe it was a different person?

When people weren't willing to back off what Kyle said we all became the enemy.

[San]

Prior to Kyle Kingman's own words ever becoming an issue ... MumInOhio began having her doubts about CAPS and ... made a stand by questioning his flawed research ... discrepancies ... changing theories and ... overall distraction.  Then suddenly Mum backtracked.  I requested an explanation for the flip flop and ... was respectfully told that she was not ready to share.

What does it take to be deemed worthy to be among the "informed"?

 

Janet

+++++

Who said they are worthy and they are the ones informed.  Just because they "think" they are informed doesn't mean they are.

CAPS was a diversion and here to distract.  I never believed his crap and I never will.  JMO.

San ... I was being sarcastic.

Our prodical Monkeys were either deceived by somebody very influencial/pursuasive or ... they are part of the deception to protect John Silvetti ... to protect the Arubans ... from being held accountable for actions encompassing the trap issue.  IMO.

I would just love to know who has the power ... the influence ... to deceive prodical Monkeys like SS and MumInOhio who saw the light in regards to the Persistence/CAPS deception and ... then flip flopped and returned to the fold.

Janet

And where did it get Mum and SS.  What did they accomplish.  Were you fooled by them.  Did they influence you.
The only thing that influences people is money.

San

Mum and SS or any of the prodical Monkeys have never shared any backup their positions.  They only undermine our positions for which backup is provided.

Janet

Exactly Janet.  They never provided squat.

One thing about you Janet you always provide backup.  Backup is where it is at.

They never ever provided backup and when you don't provide it why should we believe the person posting.

[texasmom]

7/19/2009 24ora

http://www.24ora.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/



Papiamentu translation:

man throw mortalmente in cabez fast golden gate policial

sunday, 19 july 2009 - 10:16

one rato happen police y ambulance owing to being send cu urgencia in direccion of caya betico croes just another near of golden gate for one caso earnest. the melding owing to enter cu owing to throw a. hour police owing to arrive owing to ask ambulance cu urgencia. near of v-1999 owing to achieve he throw y not was give senjal of life. personal of ambulance not can owing to haci nothing for her victima. one tiro in cabez cu was bleed very much self. golden gate is stay open till afternoon y for of marduga have bebemento eyden. we reporteronan is verificando the identidad of the person. cada rato we will is poniendo more photograph. come across

(From my understanding, I think the victim was shot in the head.)

http://www.awe24.com/?main&id=1337&offId=0&offDate=2009-07

Papiamentu translation:

fecha: 19/07/2009 | horario: 10:06

more imagen y informacion of the caso of tiramento at tarabana the pagina here is contene material grafico y strong y do not apto for younger of edad or esnan sensibeldiadomingo morning owing to enter informe cu near of kooyman techniek have one man throw abao in one plas of blood, at once owing to dirigi police y ambulance at the sitio. at arrival of the patrol they owing to notice cu here is deal of one caso of asesinato, y owing to come haye the curpa of the victima throw abao in one plas of blood near of one car mitsubishi galant color of gold v1999. at once the agentenan owing to ask presencia of all autoridad at the sitio. the victima have one injury of tiro at the part behind his cabez, already end polisnan owing to achieve know the identidad of the victima. come across

[texasmom]

Prior to Kyle Kingman's own words ever becoming an issue ... MumInOhio began having her doubts about CAPS and ... made a stand by questioning his flawed research ... discrepancies ... changing theories and ... overall distraction.  Then suddenly Mum backtracked.  I requested an explanation for the flip flop and ... was respectfully told that she was not ready to share.

What does it take to be deemed worthy to be among the "informed"?

 

Janet

+++++

Who said they are worthy and they are the ones informed.  Just because they "think" they are informed doesn't mean they are.

CAPS was a diversion and here to distract.  I never believed his crap and I never will.  JMO.

San ... I was being sarcastic.

Our prodical Monkeys were either deceived by somebody very influencial/pursuasive or ... they are part of the deception to protect John Silvetti ... to protect the Arubans ... from being held accountable for actions encompassing the trap issue.  IMO.

I would just love to know who has the power ... the influence ... to deceive prodical Monkeys like SS and MumInOhio who saw the light in regards to the Persistence/CAPS deception and ... then flip flopped and returned to the fold.

Janet

And where did it get Mum and SS.  What did they accomplish.  Were you fooled by them.  Did they influence you.
The only thing that influences people is money.

San

Mum and SS or any of the prodical Monkeys have never shared any backup their positions.  They only undermine our positions for which backup is provided.

Janet

Exactly Janet.  They never provided squat.

One thing about you Janet you always provide backup.  Backup is where it is at.

They never ever provided backup and when you don't provide it why should we believe the person posting.

Not one of them have ever provided any back up of the information that caused them to change their view of Caps and/or the Persistence mission.  Instead they have attacked many that are still here, most especially Kermit; in ways that indicate to me that their "information" has not been provided by Natalee's family.  I really don't think any of Natalee's loved ones would condone the sick attacks that have been made.  Those attacks haven't changed anything except our opinions of some former monkeys..or that's how I feel about it anyway.  Did they/do they really think posting personal information, childish pictures, and heinous lies about SM and many of us here would really sway anyone to their way of thinking?  I just don't get it!

 

[San]

Prior to Kyle Kingman's own words ever becoming an issue ... MumInOhio began having her doubts about CAPS and ... made a stand by questioning his flawed research ... discrepancies ... changing theories and ... overall distraction.  Then suddenly Mum backtracked.  I requested an explanation for the flip flop and ... was respectfully told that she was not ready to share.

What does it take to be deemed worthy to be among the "informed"?

 

Janet

+++++

Who said they are worthy and they are the ones informed.  Just because they "think" they are informed doesn't mean they are.

CAPS was a diversion and here to distract.  I never believed his crap and I never will.  JMO.

San ... I was being sarcastic.

Our prodical Monkeys were either deceived by somebody very influencial/pursuasive or ... they are part of the deception to protect John Silvetti ... to protect the Arubans ... from being held accountable for actions encompassing the trap issue.  IMO.

I would just love to know who has the power ... the influence ... to deceive prodical Monkeys like SS and MumInOhio who saw the light in regards to the Persistence/CAPS deception and ... then flip flopped and returned to the fold.

Janet

And where did it get Mum and SS.  What did they accomplish.  Were you fooled by them.  Did they influence you.
The only thing that influences people is money.

San

Mum and SS or any of the prodical Monkeys have never shared any backup their positions.  They only undermine our positions for which backup is provided.

Janet

Exactly Janet.  They never provided squat.

One thing about you Janet you always provide backup.  Backup is where it is at.

They never ever provided backup and when you don't provide it why should we believe the person posting.

Not one of them have ever provided any back up of the information that caused them to change their view of Caps and/or the Persistence mission.  Instead they have attacked many that are still here, most especially Kermit; in ways that indicate to me that their "information" has not been provided by Natalee's family.  I really don't think any of Natalee's loved ones would condone the sick attacks that have been made.  Those attacks haven't changed anything except our opinions of some former monkeys..or that's how I feel about it anyway.  Did they/do they really think posting personal information, childish pictures, and heinous lies about SM and many of us here would really sway anyone to their way of thinking?  I just don't get it!

 

Nicely said TM.  I couldn't agree with you more.

[Sleuth]

Who said they are worthy and they are the ones informed.  Just because they "think" they are informed doesn't mean they are.

CAPS was a diversion and here to distract.  I never believed his crap and I never will.  JMO.

Ditto, Ditto, Ditto, Ditto ... and Ditto on the JMO too. 
To add to that, questioning something does not mean you are taking a stand - it may just mean you honestly don't know and want to know more... JMO

[Tamikosmom]

I guess you are familiar with my take on that issue Blue Moon,

Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee.

Besides that I would consider any answers from Eduardo Mansur as not reliable.

bastibro

WHY do you not believe that Natalee's remains were not in that trap?


1.  Kyle Kingman backs up his strong contention that Natalee's remains may have been located.

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.


2.  SS backs up her strong contention that Natalee's remains may have been located.

SS
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #782 12/5/08 -
« Reply #697 on: December 06, 2008, 03:26:15 PM »

I have pretty much been a believer that Natalee was buried on land, but after Kyle's calculations, I don't think so anymore.  Kyle is a trained oceanographer and he has been taught how to make those calculations of objects on the ocean floor.  Kyle's calculations are actually the first piece of scientific data that we have after three and a half years.  I wonder if it would be too much of a stretch to hope that the release of the cage photographs somehow has forced Rudy's hand???  They can't deny any longer that something was in the cage.  There are photographs to prove the lie.  Whether or not they have destroyed the actual cage contents remains to be seen.  If the evidence has been destroyed, Richardson and Mos could also be in trouble along with Paulass and Uncle Jan.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.msg569178#msg569178


Both Kyle Kingsman and SS may have backtracked on their strong contentions but ... it is something akin to denying your belly botton.  Everytime you look down it is still there.

KYLE KINGMAN'S OWN WORDS ARE NOT GOING TO GO AWAY!!

Janet

[Tamikosmom]

I guess you are familiar with my take on that issue Blue Moon,

Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee.

Besides that I would consider any answers from Eduardo Mansur as not reliable.

bastibro ... I agree.  I am a believer in Kyle Kingman's own words.

Janet

++++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.

[Magnolia]

I was just searching for something else and stopped and read this:

Kyle Kingman - 06/10/08: Well, it's all going to happen. The big card will soon be played. I just had a secret meeting with Tim Trahan and by proxy, Louis Shafer. Tomorrow, Tim Trahan will get in touch with Beth Holloway in regards to the trap footage and missing evidence. We're getting geared up to play the conspiracy cover-up card on Aruba and force the bogus investigation out into the open. We believe the trap footage may be the missing piece which will raise a BIG question in the minds of the public everywhere. We're in the process of figuring out how to produce and spin the story most accurately and most effectively. Also, and completely independant and unrelated, John will be in Aruba tomorrow and will report soon. This is a different issue. He knows nothing of what we're about to do with the footage.

Kyle is saying here that Tim Trahan believes it was Natalee's remains in the trap.  John Silvetti is the one who
wants it covered up.

I know, Janet....you have prbably pointed this out a hundred times.

[Tamikosmom]

Magnolia

Kyle Kingman's own words tell the whole story regarding the John Silvetti and Tim Trahan's betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family in their participation to the Aruban coverup  and ... then the subsequent betrayal of others who knew the truth and made self-serving decision rather than immediately exposing to the FBI the obstruction of justice on board the Persistence in regards to an American citizen.

Janet 

[Tamikosmom]

San and 2NJ

My avatar keeps flashing.  Tell me it is not my 62 year old eyes.

 

Janet

[Magnolia]

Magnolia

Kyle Kingman's own words tell the whole story regarding the John Silvetti and Tim Trahan's betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family in their participation to the Aruban coverup  and ... then the subsequent betrayal of others who knew the truth and made self-serving decision rather than immediately exposing to the FBI the obstruction of justice on board the Persistence in regards to an American citizen.

Janet 

I know, Janet....but that one statement and the one where Kyle says :  if it wasn't her, it was the
biggest cosmic WTF moment of my life... are the ones that convince me the most.

[Tamikosmom]

Magnolia

Kyle Kingman's own words tell the whole story regarding the John Silvetti and Tim Trahan's betrayal of Natalee Holloway and her family in their participation to the Aruban coverup  and ... then the subsequent betrayal of others who knew the truth and made self-serving decision rather than immediately exposing to the FBI the obstruction of justice on board the Persistence in regards to an American citizen.

Janet 

I know, Janet....but that one statement and the one where Kyle says :  if it wasn't her, it was the
biggest cosmic WTF moment of my life... are the ones that convince me the most.

I agree.  Kyle Kingman was so convinced and ... he was the one with the professional expertise to made that assertion.

I wish our prodical Monkeys would explain how they are so convinced that Natalee Holloway's remains were not in that trap.  Is it because John Silvetti says so?  Is it because the Arubans say so?

 

Janet

[Magnolia]

I need to ask ya'll something.
The couple that was killed in the Florida panhandle once owned a strip club called
Back Seat. 
Wasn't that one of Mr. Pink's company names?

[Blue Moon]

QUOTE FROM BASTIBRO:

I guess you are familiar with my take on that issue Blue Moon,

Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee.

Besides that I would consider any answers from Eduardo Mansur as not reliable.


QUOTE FROM BLUE MOON:

Oh Bastibro do not put words in my mouth.  You and others STILL do not get it.  I DID NOT say I believe Natalee was in that cage (very possible though).  What I AM saying is WE WILL NEVER know what was in that cage because they were allowed (ALE) full unrestricted access to that cage to remove "whatever" was in it without any objections from anyone on that ship.   Face it, that IS what Kyle said and HE has NOT returned to dispute those words.  The pictures clearly show large plastic bags with "evidence" in it being removed.  Now whether it was the remains of Natalee or the remains of whoever WE will never know because ALE was allowed to do it without ANY objections from ANYONE.  Do you get my drift now.  You are entitled to your opinion BUT so am I and Kyle cannot dispute his own words



I don't believe Bastibro has been back to answer this.  Why?  Because he or the rest of them have NO answers. Having an opinion is one thing but when stated so firmly that Kyle would not lie when we have his words here for all to read is another thing.  My conclusion at this point is there were remains in that cage.  JMO   Who's we do not know but I do have a feeling it was Natalee but now it cannot be proved.

[Blue Moon]

I need to ask ya'll something.
The couple that was killed in the Florida panhandle once owned a strip club called
Back Seat. 
Wasn't that one of Mr. Pink's company names?

I am wanting to say it was Back Seat Bangers?  I could be wrong.