Natalee Case Discussion #821 7/13/09 - 7/28/09

[Blue Moon]

Sorry, meant to say "Possible" on the above post.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_59821.php

Google Translation:

Netherlands Antilles and Aruba, on a computer network

20 Jul, 2009, 13:47 (GMT -04:00)

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ORANGE CITY / DEN HAAG - The services provided in Aruba and the Antilles foreign policy is one of these days is connected to the computer network of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs. This will include all information from the embassies and consulates are available for all countries in the kingdom. This is one of the measures following the three day working visit of Minister Verhagen (Foreign Affairs) is affected.

In addition, to support, officials of Foreign Affairs on the islands are stationed. Furthermore, services for foreign policy in the islands Policy to exchange Den Haag. During the meeting between the Prime Minister Verhagen Oduber and the Prime Minister of the Netherlands Antilles De Jongh-Elhage minister discussed the situation in the world and in the Caribbean.

Aruba and the Antilles are closely involved in the note about foreign policy the Caribbean, soon submitted to the Lower House in the Netherlands and the States to Aruba and the Antilles is offered. Verhagen Minister used his meeting at the Prime Minister aware of the discussions that he earlier this week with Prime Minister Balkenende argued in the U.S. capital Washington.

Furthermore, they discussed the impact of the financial-economic crisis and the situation in the Caribbean. Minister Verhagen and the Prime Ministers stressed the importance of good relations with the countries in the region. In 2010, through the political reforms in the Kingdom of the Netherlands created two new countries: Curaçao and Sint Maarten. The islands Bonaire, Saba and Sint Eustasius be Dutch municipalities. Minister Verhagen is responsible for the foreign policies of all countries in the kingdom.
 

[Keepthefaith]

I used to think i jumped on the forum late.I think Iris44 has got KTF beat!

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[texasmom]

I was beginning to get worried about you, Janet!   

[Tamikosmom]

Good Night Texasmom.

Janet
10:40 PM PT

[Tamikosmom]

I was beginning to get worried about you, Janet!   

No need to worry.  I am here for the long run.

 

Janet

[texasmom]

Good Night Texasmom.

Janet
10:40 PM PT

Good night Janet.   

[texasmom]

Truth & Justice for Natalee!

[texasmom]

[jen3560]

Bastibro

"Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee."

Kyle Kingman:

I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Maybe Kyle is haunted, but maybe not for the reason he thought he might be when he said those words.

 

If it wasn't her, I think someone would have definitely made sure we knew WHO IT WAS by now.

JMO

Excellent point, Txmom!

I *think* I'm glad to know Bastibro doesn't believe Kyle is a liar. 

That he then doesn't believe Kyle lied to Natalee's Freebirds when he recounted everything he saw and knew.

[jen3560]

Prodigal Monkeys have a choice ... either Kyle Kingman is the grandfather of all liars and John Silvetti has been despicably defamed OR ... Kyle Kingman was revealing the truth when he implied in his own words that John Silvetti participated with the enemy in furthering the Aruban coverup.

Which is it?

Janet

+++++


PRODIGAL MONKEYS

Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #202 on: December 04, 2008, 03:07:37 AM »

... You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS. There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help. I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg565899#msg565899


bastibro
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #821 7/13/09 -
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2009, 09:27:59 PM »

Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5372.msg880667#msg880667


VISUAL DIVE - DECEMBER 30, 2007 - VISUAL DIVE

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HOW OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive.  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.


RECOVERY DIVE - JANUARY 7, 2008

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman   I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

Kyle Kingman:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.


NATALEE'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435

Edit: Typo MB

Janet, Janet, it`s really not that difficult you know . .

Silvetti took the words of ALE for gospel, in other words;
Silvetti did trust ALE in handling the samples they took and Kyle obviously did not.

What I think is they(Persistence crew) should have taken the evidence before ALE was able to do so.

They had plenty time between the 30th and the 7th.
It will always be a wasted opportunity IMO

Why would John Silvetti "trust" ALE?  He spent time with family members before going to Aruba, he spent time with Tim Miller; my bet is the subject CAME UP!

So that's going to be his lame excuse?  He trusted ALE.  Guess he didn't take the time to read the history of the case beforehand?  Guess he didn't listen to those who have been involved in the case from the beginning?

Just decided all on his own to trust ALE?  Well, isn't that special?

I say BS. 

Wasted opportunity?  Oh I think they saw to it that nothing was for naught when it comes to THEM!  I look forward to seeing just how much they reap from that mission for years to come.  Kyle's words say it all, John Silvetti's priorities wouldn't allow him to do what was right for Natalee and her family.

The thing is....IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT NATALEE! 

Problem being, IT NEVER WAS!   

JMO

Oh TM, Silvetti was most certainly aware of the history of evidence disappearing into that bottomless drawer within the OM/ALE office.

In our first email communications with Kyle after he contacted us..................

In addition to asking about the protocol should they find anything - a little reminder (urging) was included about the lack of trustworthiness regarding ALE.

Kyle assured us that they understood all of that.

"THEY" understood all of that.

 

[2NJSons_Mom]

I believe this is a repeat. 


 


 


Valero, PetroChina Still in Talks on Aruba Refinery, Aide Says

Share | Email | Print | A A A


By Jessica Resnick-Ault

July 20 (Bloomberg) -- Valero Energy Corp., the largest U.S. oil refiner, is continuing talks with PetroChina Co. over sale of its plant in Aruba, according to an aide to Aruban Prime Minister Nelson Oduber.

The San Antonio-based company originally sought $1.5 billion for the refinery, and PetroChina, China’s largest oil company, continues to seek a lower price, Eric Brete, Aruba’s protocol officer, said today in a telephone interview. Brete said he discussed the matter with PetroChina officials last year.

“Negotiations are going on between the refinery and the interested party,” Brete said. PetroChina is the only current bidder that has met with the government, he said.

Valero bought the refinery in March 2004 for $365 million plus $100 million for related marine fuel operations and $250 million for working capital.

The plant, with a capacity to process 275,000 barrels of oil a day, has been on the block since November 2007, when Valero said it hired UBS Investment Bank to help sell it. The refinery was shut earlier this month because of low profit margins, and Valero said it would remain closed for at least two months.

Brete said government officials also discussed the sale of the refinery with Petroleo Brasileiro SA, Brazil’s state- controlled oil company, which said in late 2008 that it made a bid on the plant early in the year but was no longer interested in it.

Valero has declined to identify any parties that are interested in the refinery, saying discussions are confidential.

“We have been in discussions with interested parties, and discussions are continuing,” Valero spokesman Bill Day said today in an interview.

The refinery produces diesel fuel and feedstock for other Valero refineries. It doesn’t make finished gasoline.

To contact the reporter on this story: Jessica Resnick-Ault in New York at jresnickault@bloomberg.net

Last Updated: July 20, 2009 17:31 EDT



 


 
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[Tamikosmom]

Prodigal Monkeys have a choice ... either Kyle Kingman is the grandfather of all liars and John Silvetti has been despicably defamed OR ... Kyle Kingman was revealing the truth when he implied in his own words that John Silvetti participated with the enemy in furthering the Aruban coverup.

Which is it?

Janet

+++++


PRODIGAL MONKEYS

Hotshot
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #781 12/3/08 -
« Reply #202 on: December 04, 2008, 03:07:37 AM »

... You guys are going to look really silly in the end for downing the people like silvetti, and Kyle, and CAPS. There must be more to do with your time then pick on the ones who actually go out of their way to help. I do not see anyone here going out there to actually help as these people did ...

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4186.msg565899#msg565899


bastibro
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #821 7/13/09 -
« Reply #78 on: July 17, 2009, 09:27:59 PM »

Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5372.msg880667#msg880667


VISUAL DIVE - DECEMBER 30, 2007 - VISUAL DIVE

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HOW OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  We had an American diver with us on the Dec 30th dive.  I requested all samples to be brought on board the Persistence for visual and top-side photographs. It was ignored by the project lead (John S.) who felt the Arubans would follow whatever they needed to do as far as proper protocol.


RECOVERY DIVE - JANUARY 7, 2008

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman   I personally was extremely uncomfortable with the chain of custody, being that we weren't a part of it, but I was powerless to do anything about it.  The samples were photographed in detail by one Aruban diver and the other two investigated the contents of the trap, the dimensions, the rigging, and what surrounded the trap.  From the video, it looked like they did a diligent and careful job with the samples and the underwater photography.  I don't know who has these pictures, but I must assume ALE.

Kyle Kingman:  I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap.

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship. I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.


NATALEE'S UNCLE

private eye
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #737 2/29 -
« Reply #559 on: March 01, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

I hope that the Persistence has not done all of this work and gone to all of this expense only to have gotten itself into an arrangement whereby Aruban divers are the ones who actually verify the targets and are the first ones to physically retrieve evidence, with no American divers physically with them. If so, all I can say is I just can't believe this has happened. But surely I am wrong.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2662.msg358435#msg358435

Edit: Typo MB

Janet, Janet, it`s really not that difficult you know . .

Silvetti took the words of ALE for gospel, in other words;
Silvetti did trust ALE in handling the samples they took and Kyle obviously did not.

What I think is they(Persistence crew) should have taken the evidence before ALE was able to do so.

They had plenty time between the 30th and the 7th.
It will always be a wasted opportunity IMO

Joran, Deepak and Satish were detained by the new prosecutor Hans Mos in November, 2007 just prior to the Persistence undertaking.

Hans Mos was regarded by many ... including the majority of Natalee's Freebirds ... as the knight in shining armour who who would finally put justice for Natalee Holloway into motion.

Tamikosmom and one other Natalee's Freebird took an opposing position.

In January, 2008 ... I compiled a document supporting my opposing position ... an opposing position which implied that the rearrests of Joran, Deepak and Satish were part of Aruba's last Hurrah to convince the world ... convince America ... that the "powers that be" did all that was possible but ... in the end  failed ... in their sincere attempt to convince the Aruban court to allow charges to be brought against the suspects.  In other words ... my contention was that Hans Mos was a part of the deception.

The consensus of the flock was that my composition would not be released as Natalee Freebird document.  My suggestion that two sides of the Hans Mos' issue be released as Natalee Freebirds' documents ... letting the reader be the judge ... was also overruled.

Bastibo's words tell me there is a new strategy ... a new strategy which imiplies that John Silvetti will now concede that Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in that trap but ... like many other ... he believe that the involvement of the new prosecutor ... who had attempted to hold Joran, Deepak and Satish accountable ... dictated that any case related discovery by the Persistence would not be covered up?

In other words ... the prodigal Monkeys have it both ways ... Kyle Kingman is not the grandfather of all liars and ... John Silvetti did not intentionally stand in the way of justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family.

Janet

Edit: typo

[Tamikosmom]

PROMISED THE SUSPECTS!!!


Prosecutor Mulls Closure in Natalee Holloway Case
Saturday, December 08, 2007

Hans Mos told The Associated Press Friday he will drop the case unless prosecutors agree before the New Year that they have strong enough evidence to go to court.

"We promised the suspects that after Dec. 31, we will not pursue the case," Mos said. "This investigation should end at a certain point."

Mos said he imposed the deadline himself earlier this year because he feels two years is a reasonable amount of time for bringing charges against someone.

His comments come after the recent release of three suspects who have been arrested several times since the investigation began following Holloway's May 2005 disappearance.

Mos said if prosecutors believed they only had enough evidence to charge someone with a minor crime related to the case, he and the Holloway family feel pursuing such a charge "doesn't serve a purpose." A person convicted of making a body disappear, for example, would serve only six months in prison, he said.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,316210,00.html

[jen3560]

Joran, Deepak and Satish were detained by the new prosecutor Hans Mos in November, 2007 just prior to the Persistence undertaking.

Hans Mos was regarded by many ... including the majority of Natalee's Freebirds ... as the knight in shining armour who who would finally put justice for Natalee Holloway into motion.

Tamikosmom and one other Natalee's Freebird took an opposing position.

In January, 2008 ... I compiled a document supporting my opposing position ... an opposing position which implied that the rearrests of Joran, Deepak and Satish were part of Aruba's last Hurrah to convince the world ... convince America ... that the "powers that be" did all that was possible but ... in the end  failed ... in their sincere attempt to convince the Aruban court to allow charges to be brought against the suspects.  In other words ... my contention was thatHans Mos was a part of the deception.

The consensus of the flock was that my composition would not be released as Natalee Freebird document.  My suggestion that two sides of the Hans Mos' issue be released as Natalee Freebirds' documents ... letting the reader be the judge ... was also overruled.

Bastibo's words tell me there is a new strategy ... a new strategy which imiplies that John Silvetti will now concede that Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in that trap but ... like many other ... he believe that the involvement of the new prosecutor ... who had attempted to hold Joran, Deepak and Satish accountable ... dictated that any case related discovery by the Persistence would not be covered up?

In other words ... the prodical Monkeys have it both ways ... Kyle Kingman is not the grandfather of all liars and ... John Silvetti did not intentionally stand in the way of justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family.

Janet

psst............http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2008/09/hans-mos.html

After giving Mos time to either prove his mettle or fail miserably, (gave him enough rope with which to hang himself) we did publish a doc on him. 

[Kermit]

Tamikosmom and one other Natalee's Freebird took an opposing position.

In January, 2008 ... I compiled a document supporting my opposing position ... an opposing position which implied that the rearrests of Joran, Deepak and Satish were part of Aruba's last Hurrah to convince the world ... convince America ... that the "powers that be" did all that was possible but ... in the end  failed ... in their sincere attempt to convince the Aruban court to allow charges to be brought against the suspects.  In other words ... my contention was thatHans Mos was a part of the deception.

The consensus of the flock was that my composition would not be released as Natalee Freebird document.  My suggestion that two sides of the Hans Mos' issue be released as Natalee Freebirds' documents ... letting the reader be the judge ... was also overruled.

Janet

Janet,

I may not remember it the way you do, but what I recall was the group would not agree to release your capitulation of quotes/document because of a family member who still was on the side of Hans Mos. The group felt that the family members wishes came first before any of our desires or thoughts because the family may have confidential information that the group may not have had as a whole, therefore, your document was withheld at that time.

Later, as more information & evidence was gained from the group we collectively wrote a document exposing the prosecutor in Aruba. You had already abandoned the group by that time.

HANS MOS
ARUBAN PROSECUTOR - OR SABATEUR?
http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/

[jen3560]

Janet - while of course we never heard from Silvetti on the subject, Kyle did tell us that he trusted Neither Richardson nor Mos, after having met and spoken with both of them.

In all that Kyle shared with us, there HAD to have been discussion aboard the Persistence regarding the integrity (lack thereof) of both the OM and ALE..........prior to that cage having been found.

In addition, all project leads had met with both Dave and Beth prior to departing New Iberia, and the wealth of information I'm certain was shared by them ...Also don't forget Tim Miller's vast experience with the way Aruba operates... there is NO WAY it could ever be convincingly pawned off on me that Silvetti was simply trusting Hans Mos and was fooled by him. 

Remember - Beth and Dave had both had dealings with Mos before the Persistence search farce ever began, and would have shared their experiences, thoughts and feelings about him with the Project Leads.

I would never believe that they all weren't well armed and forewarned prior to departure.

Natalee's Freebirds also forewarned them before they arrived in Aruba as well.

[Kermit]

Bastibo's words tell me there is a new strategy ... a new strategy which imiplies that John Silvetti will now concede that Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in that trap but ... like many other ... he believe that the involvement of the new prosecutor ... who had attempted to hold Joran, Deepak and Satish accountable ... dictated that any case related discovery by the Persistence would not be covered up?

In other words ... the prodical Monkeys have it both ways ... Kyle Kingman is not the grandfather of all liars and ... John Silvetti did not intentionally stand in the way of justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family.

Janet

I'm not sure I'd give Bastibro that much credit to have a strategy - more like derailment is their game.
Although, I agree, his posts do show improved English.

[Kermit]

Kyle: “I did not feel the same and we had a major difference in opinion. He [John Silvetti] was the one who never pressed ALE to be completely open with us with the trap evidence. I would have forced them to. However, John was the one paying my invoices so I was forced to sit back and hope for the best.”
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564753;topicseen#msg564753

Kyle said: "John didn't want Tim Miller on board the Persistence because he said Tim wasn't necessary any more and was a liability"http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


Kyle stated: "John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related, yet never studied the videos or bothered to inquire further. He had plans on doing business with Aruba and in S. America and he didn't want to hurt any feelings by talks hinting at lack of complete trust and friendship."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4209.120