Natalee Case Discussion #821 7/13/09 - 7/28/09

[Tamikosmom]

Joran, Deepak and Satish were detained by the new prosecutor Hans Mos in November, 2007 just prior to the Persistence undertaking.

Hans Mos was regarded by many ... including the majority of Natalee's Freebirds ... as the knight in shining armour who who would finally put justice for Natalee Holloway into motion.

Tamikosmom and one other Natalee's Freebird took an opposing position.

In January, 2008 ... I compiled a document supporting my opposing position ... an opposing position which implied that the rearrests of Joran, Deepak and Satish were part of Aruba's last Hurrah to convince the world ... convince America ... that the "powers that be" did all that was possible but ... in the end  failed ... in their sincere attempt to convince the Aruban court to allow charges to be brought against the suspects.  In other words ... my contention was thatHans Mos was a part of the deception.

The consensus of the flock was that my composition would not be released as Natalee Freebird document.  My suggestion that two sides of the Hans Mos' issue be released as Natalee Freebirds' documents ... letting the reader be the judge ... was also overruled.

Bastibo's words tell me there is a new strategy ... a new strategy which imiplies that John Silvetti will now concede that Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in that trap but ... like many other ... he believe that the involvement of the new prosecutor ... who had attempted to hold Joran, Deepak and Satish accountable ... dictated that any case related discovery by the Persistence would not be covered up?

In other words ... the prodical Monkeys have it both ways ... Kyle Kingman is not the grandfather of all liars and ... John Silvetti did not intentionally stand in the way of justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family.

Janet

psst............http://nataleesfreebirds.blogspot.com/2008/09/hans-mos.html

After giving Mos time to either prove his mettle or fail miserably, (gave him enough rope with which to hang himself) we did publish a doc on him. 

Jen ... I did read the November, 2008 Natalee Freebirds' document on Hans Mos and concurred 100%.  However ... I also reread my draft documents of December/07 and January/08 which I submitted to the Natalee's Freebird's forum for consideration and ... the difference is minimal.

Jen ... I may have been disappointed that my position regarding Hans Mos was not supported by the majority of the flock in December/07 and January/08 ... even Grandpa (emails) but ... I am not complaining.  The dynamics of the forum was understood from day one.  A consensus was where it was at in regards to the releasing of documents.

My point was that many on all the forums ... including the Natalee's Freebirds' forum  ... trusted the new prosecutor ... many were convinced that Natalee Holloway finally had an advocate.

Janet


 

[Tamikosmom]

Bastibo's words tell me there is a new strategy ... a new strategy which imiplies that John Silvetti will now concede that Natalee Holloway's remains could have been in that trap but ... like many other ... he believe that the involvement of the new prosecutor ... who had attempted to hold Joran, Deepak and Satish accountable ... dictated that any case related discovery by the Persistence would not be covered up?

In other words ... the prodical Monkeys have it both ways ... Kyle Kingman is not the grandfather of all liars and ... John Silvetti did not intentionally stand in the way of justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family.

Janet

I'm not sure I'd give Bastibro that much credit to have a strategy - more like derailment is their game.

Although, I agree, his posts do show improved English.

Who is Bastibro??

Janet

[Kermit]

Kyle said: " John stood back and waited and worked with the Aruban Polis"

Kyle said: "John definitely believed the Arubans at their every word"
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564763#msg564763


GRETA: Hans Mos is a liar!


Kyle said: "We're being fed misinformation to keep us searching and out of their way while they cover their asses, destroy evidence, cover their tracks, and keep us out at sea and away from the trap."
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.msg564748;topicseen#msg564748

ENTER CAPSLOCKWIZARD, Lorenzo Webb, Kawish, Mark Purcell and Rosalie Klien (friends with Paulus van der Sloot) to derail everyone into believing the POND was where Joran dumped Natalee's remains and his tennis shoe!

LOGIC DICTATES:
A. If you find evidence, YOU COLLECT the evidence! You do not go out trying to SELL the photos of the evidence!

B. You have 100 other targets to investigate, yet you drop everything to go search a pond with information that doesn't add up!

C. The LE already proved their bogus manipulating investigation in order to protect the suspects and Paulus van der Sloot. Why would John Silvetti trust anyone other then his own American crew members who are telling him there is some human remains inside the cage? Who then try to sell the images of what they said they believe to be the remains of Natalee Holloway! Answer that question and then you'll see what is really going on with American traitors!
imo

[Kermit]

My point was that many on all the forums ... including the Natalee's Freebirds' forum  ... trusted the new prosecutor ... many were convinced that Natalee Holloway finally had an advocate.
Janet

Again, I'll say it - the family was the only hold out and therefore the decision to not allow your capitulation of quotes to be released was withheld.

[Kermit]

Who is Bastibro??Janet

a cling-on

[Tamikosmom]

The following quote of Kyle Kingman tells me that John Silvetti did not want to be a participant in the exposure of the trap contents for self serving reasons ... the same self-serving reasons he afforded the enemy possession of what may have been Natalee Holloway's remains ... business opportunities in Aruba and the region.

Janet
_______

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18 -
« Reply #430 on: February 19, 2009, 01:24:58 AM »
 
Kyle Kingman (June 16, 2008):  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4554.msg679597;topicseen#msg679597

[Kermit]

jdsurveyor1 posted April 3, 2008 at BFN:
The surveyors from the Persistence were also working with the Maritime Police and Prosecutor's Office utilizing bottom scanning sonar in ponds and murky bodies of water.

jdsurveyor1 posted April 3, 2008 at BFN:
The relationship between the people of Aruba and the crew of the Persistence was wonderful.  Initially, there was an air of guarded reservation, on both sides, however, once they understood why we were there, not to make headlines or money, but to help the Holloway family and intrinsically the island of Aruba, they opend their arms and their homes to us.
<snip>
 We received support from the Police, the Coast Guard, the Port Authority and vitually anyone we needed help from.
 

jdsurveyor1 posted April 3, 2008 at BFN:
other than what was shared with the authorities, is in our possesion.  No data has yet to be released, especially target data......locations.

[Kermit]

The following quote of Kyle Kingman tells me that John Silvetti did not want to be a participant in the exposure of the trap contents for self serving reasons ... the same self-serving reasons he afforded the enemy possession of what may have been Natalee Holloway's remains ... business opportunities in Aruba and the region.

Janet
_______

Kermit
Re: Natalee Case Discussion #801 2/18 -
« Reply #430 on: February 19, 2009, 01:24:58 AM »
 
Kyle Kingman (June 16, 2008):  On the other hand, those differences has also caused a rift between Tim Trahan/Louis and myself with John (although John and I remain close friends and colleagues). The result is Tim, Louis and I are moving forward and John [Silvetti] is left out of the loop. Tim Trahan has allied himself with me. What John's doing in Aruba, I am not entirely sure now although I know it's got to do with the pond search and some business relations. loathe the thought of going around John with the trap info but that's Tim's decision, not mine. It was Tim who wanted me involved in where we are going now.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4554.msg679597;topicseen#msg679597

So far, everything points to that conclusion.
Bogus pond search keeps everything off the cage and contents.
He literally funded that by paying for the witness to come to the U.S. and meetings with Capslockwizard at his home along with Lorenzo Webb and Geerman. Put all his efforts into convincing Dave Holloway to pony up more money for that search, RATHER THEN SOME KIND OF OUTRAGE THAT THE ARUBANS TOOK OFF WITH EVIDENCE THAT THE ROV CAPTURED: BLUE FABRIC, BLUE TARP, SKULL, TENNIS SHOE etc. etc. How many other targets on the ocean floor have the evidence that they were suppose to be searching for? Fools they are not!

[Tamikosmom]

My point was that many on all the forums ... including the Natalee's Freebirds' forum  ... trusted the new prosecutor ... many were convinced that Natalee Holloway finally had an advocate.
Janet

Again, I'll say it - the family was the only hold out and therefore the decision to not allow your capitulation of quotes to be released was withheld.

Kermit ... I did not lie in my previous post.

On December 4, 2007 ... John Kelly revealed that the family was under no false illusion regarding Hans Mos.

Janet

+++++
 

JOHN KELLY - REARRESTS ARE NOTHING BUT DOG AND PONY SHOW

Holloway Attorney: 'Extraordinarily Painful'
Tuesday, December 04, 2007

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him (Hans Mo) Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY:  I can say it with 99 percent.  ... I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made.  And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

[Kermit]

My point was that many on all the forums ... including the Natalee's Freebirds' forum  ... trusted the new prosecutor ... many were convinced that Natalee Holloway finally had an advocate.
Janet

Again, I'll say it - the family was the only hold out and therefore the decision to not allow your capitulation of quotes to be released was withheld.

Kermit ... I did not lie in my previous post.

On December 4, 2007 ... John Kelly revealed that the family was under no false illusion regarding Hans Mos.

Janet

+++++
 

JOHN KELLY - REARRESTS ARE NOTHING BUT DOG AND PONY SHOW

Holloway Attorney: 'Extraordinarily Painful'
Tuesday, December 04, 2007

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him (Hans Mo) Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY:  I can say it with 99 percent.  ... I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made.  And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

Janet,

I'm not calling you a liar. However, you are not remembering the truth of the way it was.
Freebirds held back on that document you single-handedly wrote because of a family member who was still holding out hope that Hans Mos was going to be trustworthy. We, as a group, were not going to go against that, at that time. We support the family bottom line no matter what anyone says in the media.





 

[Anna]

Bastibro is not the only one to exhibit fluctuating writing skills.  Some to whom English is a first language have abruptly developed most eloquent writing styles, only to have them vanish just as suddenly as they appeared.  One even misspelled Anna but for a day, lol.  Spelled it Ana.  Huuumm. . . now where have I seen that particular spelling before?

[Kermit]

March 28 Kyle post: "  Since hearing his testimony, we searched the pond with a scanning sonar.
John has been in contact with Mos and others

Johns email to Kyle: The Polis did not drain that pond and they did not search it, period!

Maybe LE did not believe the POND had any relevance because they knew who was posting at SM and emailing dave all the bogus-fed information

[Tamikosmom]

Bottom Line.

John Silvetti:  "I trust Hans Mos and ... so did many others ... just read the Natalee Holloway forums."

Kyle Kingman:  "I personally did not trust Hans Mos but ... I perceived John Silvetti's motives all wrong.  I now comprehend that John naively trusted and still trusts that justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family was Hans Mos objective in overseeing the the visual dive and ... the handling of the evidence."

 

[Kermit]

NOW COMPARE CAPS POSTS WITH OLD HOTSHOT POSTS AT SM:

Hotshot posted: "CAPS knows Silvetti from me  Silvetti did do the pond and then they wouldnt let him back in after all the maps were made of the pond."

Leak posted: " Silvetti was the one that offered to look for Natalee and not Schaefer."

Hotshot: "Are you doubting me and Caps?  You'll have to wait and see." 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4182.640

Hotshot
Reply #258 on: November 21, 2008, 10:53:44 PM »
CAPS knows Silvetti from meI was the one who told CAPS to go to the ship and wait for John. http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=4159.240

July 4, 2006: Hotshot posted: "A friend of mine lives there and works at the Marriott"
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=40.msg8019#msg8019

HOTSHOT ABOUT THE PONDS:
July 11, 2006 - Hotshot posted: "
I just feel those ponds that "WONT" be searched is a place that needs to be
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=63.msg13147#msg13147


HOTSHOT
ldstlou  waiting to be added to aim......come on, hussle.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=109.msg21479#msg21479

Hotshot posted:
VICKY   I need you to call me back.....the number you gave me is a fax.  Please someone make sure vicki gets this message
VICKY   I need you to call me back.....the number you gave me is a fax.  Please someone make sure vicki gets this message
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2539.msg333738#msg333738

HOTSHOT AND CAPS
Caps.....OK we need to talk tomorrow (WED) , I talked to both people.  It's good news.  Hope you read this.... Call me around noon if you can.  Kath
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2879.msg386733#msg386733

HOTSHOT IN ARUBA
Aug 26, 2007:
Espionage = MIP6 or an employee of Jossys....They both were working with "R"=Psychic on the island right before I (we) arrived.  I dont think this is "R" though, We stayed at the Manchebo, but "R" stayed at Posners place by Hooters, where Tim used to stay. 
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2050.msg272539#msg272539


REMEMBER CAPS FIRST SAID MOKO THEN HE CHANGED IT TO MONTANJA

Hotshot posted: "Does anyone have the Shango/Simian post that says something like, put your finger on Moko, then put your finger on (somewhere in ven) follow the line? And if so, hope thats some of the tracks they are looking at.....OK off to catch up.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2383.msg303568#msg303568

HOTSHOT AND KYLE/JOHN SILVETTI:
Does anyone have the website that is posted about the ship going in? You know the one where the man onboard with (TES) is actually writing it. I had it somewhere, and it is gone. Help
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2424.msg313978#msg313978

Dec. 7, 2007 -
"It was me who sent that cryptic message to your blog,
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2429.msg315194#msg315194

HOTSHOT AND JOE TACOPINA
Actually Joran and his father found Taco. Joran asked me if I knew any good Attorneys in NY, "back when he used to talk to me" and I did tell him one, LOL, my hubbys Best Friend. He chose Taco instead. Oh wellllll, I'd rather laugh at Taco, then a friend of mine.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2386.msg304735#msg304735









SUNNY IN TEXAS posted June 28, 2006:
HI everyone, please look at this attachment from Meri and you will understand why I am removing Kathy  from the team. XX
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=11.msg3368#msg3368

[jen3560]

My point was that many on all the forums ... including the Natalee's Freebirds' forum  ... trusted the new prosecutor ... many were convinced that Natalee Holloway finally had an advocate.
Janet

Again, I'll say it - the family was the only hold out and therefore the decision to not allow your capitulation of quotes to be released was withheld.

Kermit ... I did not lie in my previous post.

On December 4, 2007 ... John Kelly revealed that the family was under no false illusion regarding Hans Mos.

Janet

+++++
 

JOHN KELLY - REARRESTS ARE NOTHING BUT DOG AND PONY SHOW

Holloway Attorney: 'Extraordinarily Painful'
Tuesday, December 04, 2007

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him (Hans Mo) Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY:  I can say it with 99 percent.  ... I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made.  And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

Janet,

I'm not calling you a liar. However, you are not remembering the truth of the way it was.
Freebirds held back on that document you single-handedly wrote because of a family member who was still holding out hope that Hans Mos was going to be trustworthy. We, as a group, were not going to go against that, at that time. We support the family bottom line no matter what anyone says in the media.

 

Just so we can move forward from this..................

Natalee's Freebirds heard from this family member on Sept 14 2008 with the info that Beth was not at all happy with Mos - and a concession that two of our members may have been right all along.

That is when we agreed to move forward with our Hans Mos - Prosecutor or Sabatuer doc.

You are both right - some Freebirds wanted to give him a chance, and a family member told us that as well.

Then he shoved his foot right into his mouth (not where I would have liked to shove MY foot  ), dropped the ball big time, and showed the world he was even worse than Janssen was (who would have thought that possible?)

 

[Tamikosmom]

In case there is a misunderstand.

The above quotes are not actual quotes ... just Tamikosmom's speculation of how the Persistence deception that denied the family of Natalee Holloway the opportunity to bring their beloved home to rest on American soil will be explained away.

Janet

[Kermit]

Capslockwizard posted:
on another note got a call from John...things looks good.
http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=2705.180

[Tamikosmom]

My point was that many on all the forums ... including the Natalee's Freebirds' forum  ... trusted the new prosecutor ... many were convinced that Natalee Holloway finally had an advocate.
Janet

Again, I'll say it - the family was the only hold out and therefore the decision to not allow your capitulation of quotes to be released was withheld.

Kermit ... I did not lie in my previous post.

On December 4, 2007 ... John Kelly revealed that the family was under no false illusion regarding Hans Mos.

Janet

+++++
 

JOHN KELLY - REARRESTS ARE NOTHING BUT DOG AND PONY SHOW

Holloway Attorney: 'Extraordinarily Painful'
Tuesday, December 04, 2007

JOHN Q. KELLY, HOLLOWAY ATTORNEY: Well, in their press release and even in conversations. I had a long discussion with him (Hans Mo) Thanksgiving morning after the arrests, and you know, he indicated that they were very confident, this new evidence they had, this incriminating evidence. And it turns out, quite frankly, that it is nothing new ...

VAN SUSTEREN: All right. So you can say with 100 percent certainly there's nothing new, right?

KELLY:  I can say it with 99 percent.  ... I think it was disappointing to me and actually extraordinarily painful and almost cruel for Beth and Dave after being down there.

They'd like to get some answers and they'd like to see some progress made.  And it's not fair to bring them down there with the false promises, with raised expectations, sort of a dog and pony show down there with no substance.

And it was — it just really took whatever spirit, almost, that Beth and Dave had left, went through that this weekend. It was really — it was terribly painful, for lack of a better expression.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,314966,00.html

Janet,

I'm not calling you a liar. However, you are not remembering the truth of the way it was.
Freebirds held back on that document you single-handedly wrote because of a family member who was still holding out hope that Hans Mos was going to be trustworthy. We, as a group, were not going to go against that, at that time. We support the family bottom line no matter what anyone says in the media.

 

Just so we can move forward from this..................

Natalee's Freebirds heard from this family member on Sept 14 2008 with the info that Beth was not at all happy with Mos - and a concession that two of our members may have been right all along.

That is when we agreed to move forward with our Hans Mos - Prosecutor or Sabatuer doc.

You are both right - some Freebirds wanted to give him a chance, and a family member told us that as well.

Then he shoved his foot right into his mouth (not where I would have liked to shove MY foot  ), dropped the ball big time, and showed the world he was even worse than Janssen was (who would have thought that possible?)

 

 

[jen3560]

Bottom Line.

John Silvetti:  "I trust Hans Mos and ... so did many others ... just read the Natalee Holloway forums."

Kyle Kingman:  "I personally did not trust Hans Mos but ... I perceived John Silvetti's motives all wrong.  I now comprehend that John naively trusted and still trusts that justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family was Hans Mos objective in overseeing the the visual dive and ... the handling of the evidence."

 

That's not a bottom line for me. 

I think Kyle never even considered criminal ulterior motives on behalf of John Silvetti.  He chose to believe John was naive and trusting - while many believe/know differently.

In that, I think Kyle was the naive one. 

He knows all of the information that was provided to them before and during their endeavor.  He knows Silvetti was just as aware as the rest of them of who not to trust.

[Tamikosmom]

Bottom Line.

John Silvetti:  "I trust Hans Mos and ... so did many others ... just read the Natalee Holloway forums."

Kyle Kingman:  "I personally did not trust Hans Mos but ... I perceived John Silvetti's motives all wrong.  I now comprehend that John naively trusted and still trusts that justice for Natalee Holloway and closure for her family was Hans Mos objective in overseeing the the visual dive and ... the handling of the evidence."

 

That's not a bottom line for me. 

I think Kyle never even considered criminal ulterior motives on behalf of John Silvetti.  He chose to believe John was naive and trusting - while many believe/know differently.

In that, I think Kyle was the naive one. 

He knows all of the information that was provided to them before and during their endeavor.  He knows Silvetti was just as aware as the rest of them of who not to trust.

I agree.

I was just being the devil's advocate regarding how both Kyle Kingman's words and ... John Silvetti's actions will be justified so that neither are held accountable.

Janet