Natalee Case Discussion #821 7/13/09 - 7/28/09

[Blue Moon]

SNIP:

Thanks for putting this together Janet

Jossy knows alot more of what the `people in the casino` stated to ALE too if you ask me, especially the casino employees(Croupiers).

[/quote]

I also think Jossy knows a little more but due to him having to live on that island and survive there he can only do so much.  I also think Jossy's son Eduardo knows a little more too and needs to be asked what was going on on that boat and what did ALE recover from the ocean when no one was looking.  JMO
[/quote]

I guess you are familiar with my take on that issue Blue Moon,

Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee.

Besides that I would consider any answers from Eduardo Mansur as not reliable.

[/quote]

Oh Bastibro do not put words in my mouth.  You and others STILL do not get it.  I DID NOT say I believe Natalee was in that cage (very possible though).  What I AM saying is WE WILL NEVER know what was in that cage because they were allowed (ALE) full unrestricted access to that cage to remove "whatever" was in it without any objections from anyone on that ship.   Face it, that IS what Kyle said and HE has NOT returned to dispute those words.  The pictures clearly show large plastic bags with "evidence" in it being removed.  Now whether it was the remains of Natalee or the remains of whoever WE will never know because ALE was allowed to do it without ANY objections from ANYONE.  Do you get my drift now.  You are entitled to your opinion BUT so am I and Kyle cannot dispute his own words.
[/quote]


Sorry (I really messed that one up--just did not want such a big quote stack):


Oh Bastibro do not put words in my mouth.  You and others STILL do not get it.  I DID NOT say I believe Natalee was in that cage (very possible though).  What I AM saying is WE WILL NEVER know what was in that cage because they were allowed (ALE) full unrestricted access to that cage to remove "whatever" was in it without any objections from anyone on that ship.   Face it, that IS what Kyle said and HE has NOT returned to dispute those words.  The pictures clearly show large plastic bags with "evidence" in it being removed.  Now whether it was the remains of Natalee or the remains of whoever WE will never know because ALE was allowed to do it without ANY objections from ANYONE.  Do you get my drift now.  You are entitled to your opinion BUT so am I and Kyle cannot dispute his own words.

[texasmom]

Bastibro

"Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee."

Kyle Kingman:

I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Maybe Kyle is haunted, but maybe not for the reason he thought he might be when he said those words.

 

If it wasn't her, I think someone would have definitely made sure we knew WHO IT WAS by now.

JMO

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_59706.php

Google translation:

Central Bank: government financial position deteriorates

17 Jul, 2009, 13:42 (GMT -04:00)

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Oranjestad - Aruba, was last year in the plus because of the money that the Netherlands fell from the proceeds of the Plant Hotel. For this year it looks less rosy, as late as the Central Bank of Aruba (CBA) yesterday to know during the presentation of the Annual Report 2008.

President Jane Semeleer says that Aruba continues a period which are economically, financially and socially very difficult. "Although the situation is not at the level of 1984 and 1985, the economic activity continued to decline due to further increasing unemployment."

The economic downturn has also its influence on public finances. In the first five months of this year revenues were further reduced by 4.4 percent. The government got to within less income tax, import tax, foreign exchange commissions and BBO. CBA estimates that financial position of the government in the coming months and further increases to finance short around 130 million florin. That is almost three times higher than the government has budgeted. The budget of 2009, the government has a deficit of 47.3 million to arrive.

The Bank has included in its calculation does not take into account non-recurring income from the government last year as is the case in the Plant funds. After Aruba and the Netherlands after years finally reached an agreement, Aruba last year was 223.3 million florin paid. It closed the year compares favorably with a surplus of 411 million florin in contrast to 2007 when there is a shortage of 38 million florin.
The surplus on the capital and financial account of the rest of the economy took it of 221.5 million florin or 4.8 percent of gross domestic product (GDP) to of 591, 9 million florin or 12.1 percent of GDP .

The balance of payments last year showed a record surplus of 554.1 million florin which the level of international reserves has risen to 1.27 billion florin.

In the first quarter of this year's balance of payments surplus of 164.5 million florin. This despite the declining revenues from tourism of 10.6 percent.

Government into the red
Plant the money has to ensure reduction of public debt of 89.1 million florin to a total of 2047 million florin in 2008. The debt ratio declined from 46.6 percent of GDP this to 42 percent of GDP. When the Plant-money was not paid, then the government faced a funding gap of 41 million florin. The Central Bank also calls for this year's costs to handle. That is for the staff last year did pretty well, they were just (2.9 percent) below the maximum growth rate of 3 percent as recommended by the National Committee on Public Finance, NCPF. For this year CBA, however, that the staff are above 3.8 percent. The expenditure on goods and services continued to increase. Last year they came over (4.5 percent) above the limit of 2 percent as the committee recommended. For this year, the Bank again an increase of 4 percent.

While on the other hand, the government lags behind in investment. Last year with only 1.6 percent of GDP while the NCPF a minimum of 2 percent recommended for a healthy economy. This year that falls to 1.1 percent of GDP, as expected the Central Bank.
 

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_59707.php

Google translation:

Eugene Lampe sentenced to 18 years in prison

17 Jul, 2009, 13:43 (GMT -04:00)

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Eugene Lampe after the verdict by an agent of CEA from the courthouse led.

ORANGE CITY - Eugene Lampe is guilty of triple murder and sentenced to eighteen unconditional imprisonment, less pre-trial detention. The court believes that this society has taken no action to cases Lampe to capture in a system of compulsory care, they must bear the consequences. "

The judge said the murder of father Juan (60), mother Ina (57) and brother Edvard (30) "a terrible family tragedy." Eugene Lampe family would be "a way to contain massacred" and during the proceedings have little emotion or remorse shown. He would only have been busy with their own problems. " However, the Court in its ruling against the requirement for life of the public prosecution. Lampe is the right partly responsible for his acts' and 'strongly insanity. Life to the partial aspect of accountability is not served, according to the court. He notes the report of the Pieter Baan Centrum on Lampe, indicating that this type of cases in the Netherlands in qualifying for TBS forcing nursing. "The Aruban law does not TBS scheme," said the judge. Finding a facility in another part of the Kingdom, where the case may be detention for treatment, he has the hand.

Partly responsible
Faced with a manageable stare Lampe for themselves from which the verdict was interpreted by an interpreter, gave the right to come along with the first observation and study of the Pieter Baan Centrum (PBC) on Lampe. In this report Lampe held partly responsible for these murders. He would not have bad influence of so-called command hallucinations. But would he be suffering from paranoid schizophrenia and dangerous to his environment. Whether he was psychotic when he killed his parents and brother in April last year, can not be proven.

'Enough Time'
In February, the findings of the PBC in an intermediate sentence again questioned. The judge wanted to clarify more on the conclusion of the PBC that the suspect is not under the influence of so-called command hallucinations wrong. Moreover, the court wanted to hear from the experts or delusions images at the suspect when he knew he was under legal right. Finally, the PBC should answer the question whether 'real thoughts' in the suspect played a role in the conduct of his act. Ultimately, the court still supports the findings of the PBC. He had Lampe between the killings by enough time for reflection and to understand its actions. The claim of Lampe's lawyer, Chris Lejuez, that his client was rudderless during the murders and complete insanity should be declared so it was swept from the table.

Lampe currently resides in a separate section of the KIA prison and gets regular visits from his psychiatrist, Van Gaalen. Also, he administered medication. It is expected that during this Lampe's continued stay in prison. Eugene Lampe may conduct, after serving 12 years or two-thirds of his sentence, to be released.

[Blue Moon]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_59707.php

Google translation:

Eugene Lampe sentenced to 18 years in prison

17 Jul, 2009, 13:43 (GMT -04:00)

  Email this article
  Print this article
 


Eugene Lampe after the verdict by an agent of CEA from the courthouse led.

ORANGE CITY - Eugene Lampe is guilty of triple murder and sentenced to eighteen unconditional imprisonment, less pre-trial detention. The court believes that this society has taken no action to cases Lampe to capture in a system of compulsory care, they must bear the consequences. "

The judge said the murder of father Juan (60), mother Ina (57) and brother Edvard (30) "a terrible family tragedy." Eugene Lampe family would be "a way to contain massacred" and during the proceedings have little emotion or remorse shown. He would only have been busy with their own problems. " However, the Court in its ruling against the requirement for life of the public prosecution. Lampe is the right partly responsible for his acts' and 'strongly insanity. Life to the partial aspect of accountability is not served, according to the court. He notes the report of the Pieter Baan Centrum on Lampe, indicating that this type of cases in the Netherlands in qualifying for TBS forcing nursing. "The Aruban law does not TBS scheme," said the judge. Finding a facility in another part of the Kingdom, where the case may be detention for treatment, he has the hand.

Partly responsible
Faced with a manageable stare Lampe for themselves from which the verdict was interpreted by an interpreter, gave the right to come along with the first observation and study of the Pieter Baan Centrum (PBC) on Lampe. In this report Lampe held partly responsible for these murders. He would not have bad influence of so-called command hallucinations. But would he be suffering from paranoid schizophrenia and dangerous to his environment. Whether he was psychotic when he killed his parents and brother in April last year, can not be proven.

'Enough Time'
In February, the findings of the PBC in an intermediate sentence again questioned. The judge wanted to clarify more on the conclusion of the PBC that the suspect is not under the influence of so-called command hallucinations wrong. Moreover, the court wanted to hear from the experts or delusions images at the suspect when he knew he was under legal right. Finally, the PBC should answer the question whether 'real thoughts' in the suspect played a role in the conduct of his act. Ultimately, the court still supports the findings of the PBC. He had Lampe between the killings by enough time for reflection and to understand its actions. The claim of Lampe's lawyer, Chris Lejuez, that his client was rudderless during the murders and complete insanity should be declared so it was swept from the table.

Lampe currently resides in a separate section of the KIA prison and gets regular visits from his psychiatrist, Van Gaalen. Also, he administered medication. It is expected that during this Lampe's continued stay in prison. Eugene Lampe may conduct, after serving 12 years or two-thirds of his sentence, to be released.

Eighteen years for killing 3 people (his parents no less)?  Why am I not surprised? Guess this explains why Joran was let go and not being persued---He only murdered 1 person and it was an American no less.  Sick. Sick. Sick.

thanks TM for always posting these.  I always read them and nothing surprises me anymore.

[texasmom]

http://www.amigoe.com/artman/publish/artikel_59707.php

Google translation:

Eugene Lampe sentenced to 18 years in prison

17 Jul, 2009, 13:43 (GMT -04:00)

  Email this article
  Print this article
 


Eugene Lampe after the verdict by an agent of CEA from the courthouse led.

ORANGE CITY - Eugene Lampe is guilty of triple murder and sentenced to eighteen unconditional imprisonment, less pre-trial detention. The court believes that this society has taken no action to cases Lampe to capture in a system of compulsory care, they must bear the consequences. "

The judge said the murder of father Juan (60), mother Ina (57) and brother Edvard (30) "a terrible family tragedy." Eugene Lampe family would be "a way to contain massacred" and during the proceedings have little emotion or remorse shown. He would only have been busy with their own problems. " However, the Court in its ruling against the requirement for life of the public prosecution. Lampe is the right partly responsible for his acts' and 'strongly insanity. Life to the partial aspect of accountability is not served, according to the court. He notes the report of the Pieter Baan Centrum on Lampe, indicating that this type of cases in the Netherlands in qualifying for TBS forcing nursing. "The Aruban law does not TBS scheme," said the judge. Finding a facility in another part of the Kingdom, where the case may be detention for treatment, he has the hand.

Partly responsible
Faced with a manageable stare Lampe for themselves from which the verdict was interpreted by an interpreter, gave the right to come along with the first observation and study of the Pieter Baan Centrum (PBC) on Lampe. In this report Lampe held partly responsible for these murders. He would not have bad influence of so-called command hallucinations. But would he be suffering from paranoid schizophrenia and dangerous to his environment. Whether he was psychotic when he killed his parents and brother in April last year, can not be proven.

'Enough Time'
In February, the findings of the PBC in an intermediate sentence again questioned. The judge wanted to clarify more on the conclusion of the PBC that the suspect is not under the influence of so-called command hallucinations wrong. Moreover, the court wanted to hear from the experts or delusions images at the suspect when he knew he was under legal right. Finally, the PBC should answer the question whether 'real thoughts' in the suspect played a role in the conduct of his act. Ultimately, the court still supports the findings of the PBC. He had Lampe between the killings by enough time for reflection and to understand its actions. The claim of Lampe's lawyer, Chris Lejuez, that his client was rudderless during the murders and complete insanity should be declared so it was swept from the table.

Lampe currently resides in a separate section of the KIA prison and gets regular visits from his psychiatrist, Van Gaalen. Also, he administered medication. It is expected that during this Lampe's continued stay in prison. Eugene Lampe may conduct, after serving 12 years or two-thirds of his sentence, to be released.

Eighteen years for killing 3 people (his parents no less)?  Why am I not surprised? Guess this explains why Joran was let go and not being persued---He only murdered 1 person and it was an American no less.  Sick. Sick. Sick.

thanks TM for always posting these.  I always read them and nothing surprises me anymore.

YW Blue Moon, and you're right the more we read...the more we understand.

This was a sick and heinous crime...iirc he even laid in wait for the final victim!  He had his wits about him enough to try to burn the house down to cover it up too!  Wonder if anybody in Aruba cares that he'll be back on the streets; and more than likely back on drugs in less than twelve years (considering time served).
 

[Tamikosmom]

Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee.
Besides that I would consider any answers from Eduardo Mansur as not reliable.

Why?

bastibro ... are you a believer in the enemy's words that nothing Natalee Holloway case related was found inside the trap.

Kyle Kingman is of the opinion that Natalee Holloway's remains may have been located and ... John Silvetti afforded the Aruban's sole custody.

Janet

+++++++

KYLE KINGMAN - IN HIS OWN WORDS

Kyle Kingman:  Basically, the fish trap door was open and there appeared to be a skull and torso-shape in sand on the door inside the trap Reviewing the 29-Dec video I noticed the torso shape in sand had a 90 degree angle and that the sand was supported from falling through the bottom of the trap, which was slightly excavated by currents. I proportioned out the distance from the top of the head, to shoulder, to that 90 degree angle and it was a match to Natalee's photo of her standing -head, to shoulder, to the end of her denim skirt.  I showed TM the proportional match and the possibility of a skirt under the sand.

Kyle Kingman: The divers found the denim where I suggested a week earlier (Dec 29th) to Tim Miller that there was likely Natalee's denim skirt under the sand. Also in my opinion, the deni-like fabric is a match in terms of color, quantity, and structure to Natalee's skirt. It's not a lot of denim folded in the bag, but then again her skirt was rather small.

Kyle Kingman: The fabric(s?) are not visible on either the Dec 29th or 30th dives. There is about an inch of sand over the fabrics. The fabrics are completely covered. The diver sampled the sand and found the fabric underneath the sand. He then bagged the blue fabric.

HOWEVER ...

Kyle Kingman:  The Arubans told us there wasn't anything of interest in the trap based on the visual-only inspection (Dateline and Tim Miller present).

Kyle Kingman:  John is not a believer in the trap. He took ALE's word as gospel that it wasn't case related.

Kyle Kingman: I get done in the survey room backing up the ROV dive and head to the back deck to talk to the Polis divers and see what they sampled and see the Polis boat way in the distance heading away fast. John doesn't seem concerned at all, but I am very dissapointed, concerned, and burning inside because I have a feeling that I/we will never know what they took from the trap. That evening I talked to John asking when we plan on recovering the trap. Previously this was part of the talks and plan, but this time he doesn't seem concerned about ever looking into the trap further. After John verbally BASHED me about the trap for what I said to Tim Miller about the sand body-form and that I believed her skirt was under the sand, John pretty much committed himself to the belief the trap wasn't what we were after. This shocked me because it was exactly what we were looking for- a fish trap lost at sea with human remains

[Tamikosmom]

Bastibro

"Kyle is not a liar and having seen all the pics that have been circulating on the internet I just don`t believe that were the remains of Natalee."

Kyle Kingman:

I took the proportions of the body form from the head, to shoulder, to a 90 degree angle which I believed to be the hem line of Natalee's skirt. I then took those proportions and matched them to the photo of Natalee with what she was last seen wearing. The proportions matched within an inch from head, to shoulder, to skirt line. Based on this comparison and with what we believed we saw in the Dec 29th video, Tim Miller contacted the family and told them the 99.9% comment. I told Tim not to do anything until we have forensic results back after the site is processed.  Jan 7th we sampled the contents and in my opinion we found the skirt under the sand along with the other items The blue fabric was found right where the skirt is pictured. If it isn't her, it will forever haunt me as a major cosmic WTF.

Maybe Kyle is haunted, but maybe not for the reason he thought he might be when he said those words.

 

If it wasn't her, I think someone would have definitely made sure we knew WHO IT WAS by now.

JMO

EXACTLY!!

[Blue Moon]

Thanks Janet and TM.  I was skeered being here by myself.  THEY still do not get it do they?

[Blue Moon]

Anyone hear from BillB lately?  Haven't seen him online lately.

[Kermit]

Neighbour has invited my grandkids over for a swim in her beautiful pool.  However ... there is a method in her madness.  I think a game of Scrabble and an ice tea is where it is at as we watch the kids.

The two oldest (9/11) are at this moment aruing over one bathing suit.  I gotta go and ... knock their heads together.

 

Have a good afternoon all!

Later, Janet
2:40 PM PT

I wished I had saved all your posts - they'd make a funny book.

[texasmom]

Anyone hear from BillB lately?  Haven't seen him online lately.

No, I haven't seen billb in quite a while.  The last time he was here, he was taking his daughter to her college orientation day the next day.  I've wondered if maybe the wrong guy was checking her out or said the wrong thing, and he's doing 10-20 for his reaction.  I told him to give them "the eye" if any of them looked at her wrong; but she is his baby you know. 

Hopefully he's just busy with other things, but I miss him.

 

[Blue Moon]

Hat, see you up there.  Klaas was just saying the other day she hadn't seen you in a while.

[texasmom]

Good to see you Hat!  

[Blue Moon]

Anyone hear from BillB lately?  Haven't seen him online lately.

No, I haven't seen billb in quite a while.  The last time he was here, he was taking his daughter to her college orientation day the next day.  I've wondered if maybe the wrong guy was checking her out or said the wrong thing, and he's doing 10-20 for his reaction.  I told him to give them "the eye" if any of them looked at her wrong; but she is his baby you know. 

Hopefully he's just busy with other things, but I miss him.

 

 

[texasmom]

7/17/2009 Bondia  Page A24

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

[texasmom]

Wish I could give him a swift kick where it counts, bet he wouldn't be grinning ear to ear then!   

[Blue Moon]

Wish I could give him a swift kick where it counts, bet he wouldn't be grinning ear to ear then!   

 

I thought he was on another island.  Is he still in same position?

[Magnolia]

7/17/2009 Bondia  Page A24

http://www.bondia.com/index.php?option=com_flippingbook&book_id=2

Look at Van der Straten's head in comparision to the others in the photo.

[texasmom]

Wish I could give him a swift kick where it counts, bet he wouldn't be grinning ear to ear then!   

 

I thought he was on another island.  Is he still in same position?

He went to Bonaire, but he's baaaaack.

http://www.sxmislandtime.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1969

Police Chief, change of command     
Written by amigoe.com     
Monday, 07 July 2008 16:20 
www.sxmislandtime.com
KRALENDIJK – the former chief of police Jan van Straten had a list of recommendations for his successor Johan Schagen at the Police Corps Bonaire change of command yesterday.

Communication, towards the people as well as internally; confidence in the members of the corps and the staff members is very important. “Conduct administrative prevention to protect administrators of the island against people that come from the Netherlands and do not wait till the OM take actions.”

“Take clear and quick decisions, definitely in the sphere of integrity. Work the existing projects further out, like the complaints department. Keep the Bonerian corps and Bonerian colleagues as is. Bonaire is a unique island, keep it as such.”

Van der Straten wished Schagen a lot of success.

Van der Straten left the corps of Bonaire in January, after two years. The local head of police, Lt. Governor Herbert Domacassé and Justice-minister David Dick (PAR) thanked him for his method of managing the corps. The media criticized the arrival of Jan one or two months before he actually arrived, and now that he is leaving, nobody wants him to leave, said Dick.

The new chief of police, Johan Schagen is from the Netherlands and says that he came to Bonaire, because together with his family, he has been traveling the world with a backpack. “That’s how we get to know the world and other cultures.

When the opportunity to become the chief of police in Bonaire presented itself, it was not just a challenge to work on an island within the Kingdom, but also true interest in another culture.

I also prefer a smaller corps. To me that is a challenge, because a small corps is very conveniently arranged. Everybody in that corps is important. I am a person that loves working together and transparency.

I’m going to work together with everybody and with the media, I’ll take up the challenge to give very good information in a transparent manner and in the interest of the people of Bonaire.”

POLITICAL REALITY

It is also a political reality that we are going to be a BES-corps. We can’t wait six months for that; we will have to take the first steps, which means that we need to start from the beginning. I don’t know yet how, but it must become a corps, in which a citizen in St. Eustatius and Saba is as important as one in Bonaire.”

The minister of Justice describes Schagen as a person with a good resume, with experience in several departments and the union, and he is not old.

Schagen goes to the other islands next week and will establish in Bonaire with his family effective August 1. The new chief of police Johan Schagen (l) next to the former chief of police Jan van der Straten.

PHOTO: The new chief of police Johan Schagen (l) next to the former chief of police Jan van der Straten