Irrigation Pond

[love4ever]

I had wondered if she had sandra's body out at the OLD RIVER where the cadaver dogs hit, before sandra was put in the pond.  if so, why was she moving her around? then giving clues...did she want to send the police on a wildgoose chase? then move her, then give another clue?  maybe she just wanted to watch them chase all over the place? if she really wanted to hide sandra's body for good she would have put her somewhere else, left her there and never wrote a note.  in the phone interview she seemed to think she was being a great help to the police.  what a weirdo. 

I was thinking that since the dogs found a scent, then what Johnny Williams is true. That maybe Sandra had actually been out there at some point with someone. Was the scent the dogs were given of Sandra's only?
And how long does the scent of a person last?

[Tracygirl]

Love there was talk that maybe he is not legal so that is why he was not wanting the attention. not sure if that is true or not.

My opinion is he doesn't have anything to do with this, he was just the unfortunate person to have found it. Who knows really but I don't think he or the dairy was a part of this. Lets say the suitcase was left there to later transport, why then would the pond be drained?

But if the case was left there to later transport, where would they be taking it? Was it a place to store it until they could get rid of it? Why didn't they just throw it in the river or a lake or put it out in the middle of no where,there is plenty of "no where" in Tracy.  So why store it to move?

I am full of questions aren't I? lol. 

I have questions too Tracy Girl as you can see..lol..

I am thinking it was done in a panic maybe, I do not see anyone dumping it and then later going back to transport it. They would have left too many traces if they did that. And I wonder why they didn't throw it in the river like you and DD said? It is a very strange location to dispose of evidence.

And I understand about what you are saying about Franco, I just am looking at every one involved, putting it out there for feedback. It seems in this case anything is possible. And damn, I wish i could have been there to Help Sandra. It is so sad, so very sad..

~Love~

I think we are all full of questions tonight! I think what you are doing is great! You rock Love!

[doubledecker]

whitehall is very close to the tom paine slough, basically it is the tom paine slough area.  again, I study serial killer cases and cases with cryptics, this area matches up with clues from other cases.  I noticed this right off because I have studied this whole area for several years.  I have believed for years there is a serial killer/killers in this area, and I became interested in this case day one because of the area and I said right off(to others) they are going to find that girl either out on the paradise cut/island, or out there at the tom paine slough.  It's very predictable when you know the patterns. 

now I could be wrong, but there is just too much matching the patterns.  what baffles me is MELISSA being the one.  she is too young for my suspicions about the serial killers in the area theory I have.  This is one of the reasons I believe she is connected to someone else.  I believe these murders have been going on for a long time and before melissa would be old enough to have been the one, so is she connected to a serial killer?  this is my thought.

[doubledecker]

DD Why am I thinking I remember reading when the note was first talked about, it said Whitehall but the other street was said to be incorrect? Does anyone remember that? This is important. If it was the name of the two streets where the ponds are at, they would have just said both names.

this is exactly what I think, why wouldn't they just say the name of the other street, obviously the pond is on whitehall by baccheti, why try to hide the name of the street of baccheti?  they wouldn't. and in the news video they say there are the names of two streets and the "word" whitehall.  well were there two other street names, and if so what were they and why won't they release those names.  also why won't they release a copy of the note, they released the note fred williams was suppose to write.  they released the papers where melissa wrote about her x boyfriend stalking and threatening her.  yet they keep the names of two streets hidden and the way she misspelled suitcase, etc? 


also if she came right out and said go to whitehall road why didn't they?  and they are saying the "word" whitehall, as if that is something other than the two street names.  so what streets are they?

[Tracygirl]

 wow! 

[doubledecker]

I had wondered if she had sandra's body out at the OLD RIVER where the cadaver dogs hit, before sandra was put in the pond.  if so, why was she moving her around? then giving clues...did she want to send the police on a wildgoose chase? then move her, then give another clue?  maybe she just wanted to watch them chase all over the place? if she really wanted to hide sandra's body for good she would have put her somewhere else, left her there and never wrote a note.  in the phone interview she seemed to think she was being a great help to the police.  what a weirdo. 

I was thinking that since the dogs found a scent, then what Johnny Williams is true. That maybe Sandra had actually been out there at some point with someone. Was the scent the dogs were given of Sandra's only?
And how long does the scent of a person last?

they had CADAVER dogs out there which found the scent on Old River.  There are two kinds of dogs they use.  One is the TRAILING dog who uses the scent of the specific victim and detects the specific victim scent... the cadaver dog detects only dead scent.  It can be of anyone, or sometimes just dead tissue, might not be a person.   so if they had cadaver dogs all they would hit on is something dead. 

a scent can last a very long time, depends on the weather, depends on what the person was in, a container, a car driving, or someone being out there etc, or something of theirs being thrown out there.  cadaver scent can last for a very very long time, and bones can be scented as well years later

[love4ever]

whitehall is very close to the tom paine slough, basically it is the tom paine slough area.  again, I study serial killer cases and cases with cryptics, this area matches up with clues from other cases.  I noticed this right off because I have studied this whole area for several years.  I have believed for years there is a serial killer/killers in this area, and I became interested in this case day one because of the area and I said right off(to others) they are going to find that girl either out on the paradise cut/island, or out there at the tom paine slough.  It's very predictable when you know the patterns. 

now I could be wrong, but there is just too much matching the patterns.  what baffles me is MELISSA being the one.  she is too young for my suspicions about the serial killers in the area theory I have.  This is one of the reasons I believe she is connected to someone else.  I believe these murders have been going on for a long time and before melissa would be old enough to have been the one, so is she connected to a serial killer?  this is my thought.

I am with you on the age DD, that was the first thing that caught my attention. I was thinking, "A 28 yo females mentality is capable of doing this?...Even alone for that matter? That's what gets me! And it has been the same thought all along. Just trying to figure out why and who she knew.

~Love~

[Tracygirl]

I will be back on in about a 1/2 hour.

[doubledecker]

I remember right off they were searching up by old river, they were also searching to the south on 11th street.  That made me wonder if the other street or streets is 11th or two streets off 11th.  They had to have a reason to choose those two areas.  They did this right off.  I always thought the killer/killers were communicating to the police, and I always thought all those press conferences which said nothing were the police communicating back.  I know I probably sound nuts about now, sorry, but this is what I was thinking at the time and I still do.   

[love4ever]

I had wondered if she had sandra's body out at the OLD RIVER where the cadaver dogs hit, before sandra was put in the pond.  if so, why was she moving her around? then giving clues...did she want to send the police on a wildgoose chase? then move her, then give another clue?  maybe she just wanted to watch them chase all over the place? if she really wanted to hide sandra's body for good she would have put her somewhere else, left her there and never wrote a note.  in the phone interview she seemed to think she was being a great help to the police.  what a weirdo. 

I was thinking that since the dogs found a scent, then what Johnny Williams is true. That maybe Sandra had actually been out there at some point with someone. Was the scent the dogs were given of Sandra's only?
And how long does the scent of a person last?

they had CADAVER dogs out there which found the scent on Old River.  There are two kinds of dogs they use.  One is the TRAILING dog who uses the scent of the specific victim and detects the specific victim scent... the cadaver dog detects only dead scent.  It can be of anyone, or sometimes just dead tissue, might not be a person.   so if they had cadaver dogs all they would hit on is something dead. 

a scent can last a very long time, depends on the weather, depends on what the person was in, a container, a car driving, or someone being out there etc, or something of theirs being thrown out there.  cadaver scent can last for a very very long time, and bones can be scented as well years later

Ohhhhhhhh, so the the cadaver dogs detected a death scent the. That helps a alot DD, thank you! Now I understand better!.

[Sister]

DD, I totally agree -- thus the gag order.
O/T kinda who is Ann Lessig and why do I care?  connected to a Johnson?
nite for real
 

[doubledecker]

whitehall is very close to the tom paine slough, basically it is the tom paine slough area.  again, I study serial killer cases and cases with cryptics, this area matches up with clues from other cases.  I noticed this right off because I have studied this whole area for several years.  I have believed for years there is a serial killer/killers in this area, and I became interested in this case day one because of the area and I said right off(to others) they are going to find that girl either out on the paradise cut/island, or out there at the tom paine slough.  It's very predictable when you know the patterns. 

now I could be wrong, but there is just too much matching the patterns.  what baffles me is MELISSA being the one.  she is too young for my suspicions about the serial killers in the area theory I have.  This is one of the reasons I believe she is connected to someone else.  I believe these murders have been going on for a long time and before melissa would be old enough to have been the one, so is she connected to a serial killer?  this is my thought.

I am with you on the age DD, that was the first thing that caught my attention. I was thinking, "A 28 yo females mentality is capable of doing this?...Even alone for that matter? That's what gets me! And it has been the same thought all along. Just trying to figure out why and who she knew.
~Love~

I don't have any trouble believeing a young female can commit murder, in fact I had told people I thought there is a woman involved in this.  but the fact that I think this case has so many pattern matches as other cases I look at, IF there is any connection  then melissa is too young to be the person I am looking for, so then she has to be connected to someone else.  Now I might be wrong and there might not be any connection at all, but I personally believe there could be.  Just too much is matching up for me.

[love4ever]

I remember right off they were searching up by old river, they were also searching to the south on 11th street.  That made me wonder if the other street or streets is 11th or two streets off 11th.  They had to have a reason to choose those two areas.  They did this right off.  I always thought the killer/killers were communicating to the police, and I always thought all those press conferences which said nothing were the police communicating back.  I know I probably sound nuts about now, sorry, but this is what I was thinking at the time and I still do.   

Why didn't you tell us befor DD?..It doesn't sound nuts it makes sense. There are many thoughts I do not post because i feel funny.. ..But like they say when taking my college exams, "Your first answer is usually the correct one"...LOL

~Love~

[doubledecker]

I remember right off they were searching up by old river, they were also searching to the south on 11th street.  That made me wonder if the other street or streets is 11th or two streets off 11th.  They had to have a reason to choose those two areas.  They did this right off.  I always thought the killer/killers were communicating to the police, and I always thought all those press conferences which said nothing were the police communicating back.  I know I probably sound nuts about now, sorry, but this is what I was thinking at the time and I still do.   

Why didn't you tell us befor DD?..It doesn't sound nuts it makes sense. There are many thoughts I do not post because i feel funny.. ..But like they say when taking my college exams, "Your first answer is usually the correct one"...LOL

~Love~

well for one, I was not on the board at the beginning of the case and #2 I don't like to just pop up out of the blue and start rambling craziness 

[love4ever]

This is so intense really, and the history that you speak of is awful DD. I have to go to bed now, I will be back tomorrow to help. I wish everyone a goodnight, and Sister you are funny. You always keep us on our toes..LOL...and thank you DD and Tracygirl and Sister and whoever else (lol)for not being mean about my  silly thoughts, I have just have question and am inquisitive of things.

P.S. Just one more thought always on my mind. Is the Wenatche ring, how many came out of that, with maybe changed names? and the children where did they go, who fosters them now etc.. I researched for hours once on this. Thinking of the lawless ones who we find no records of etc..But that's another thread for another time. We need to find justice for sweet innocent Sandra...

Sweet Dreams
~Love~

[lonemonkey]

Here is another thing about the ponds and why it strikes me as a strange place. First off, they are wide open, not much around the ponds, however you have to admit they are not a place anyone would swim.

Across Whitehall there is a creek, it is well hidden with bushes then down Whitehall I am pretty sure it meets up with a larger creek, not sure if it could be called a river or a creek. I think that is the Tom Payne slough area DD spoke off or maybe old river? I looked it up and I think you can take boats or rafts? I have never been there so I am not sure. Is that where the man who saw someone in a boat who looked like Williams? Where did he see him? was it around this area?

This is a neat site, shows the water ways around Nor cal especially The Old River, Sugar Cut, Tom Slough and Grant line river. page down and you can see a pic of the Tracy blvd bridge. http://www.usbr.gov/mp/nepa/documentShow.cfm?Doc_ID=2008

Now with all of these water ways around, why the pond? could the man have seen Williams in the boat with Sandra? We have been told Sandra was killed on the day she went missing is that a fact or an assumption?   

Tracy
You have mentioned some of the very things that run thru my mind a lot with this case!!!  WHY an irrigation pond, out in the OPEN as  you mentioned, and drained regularly!!!!!!!!  So in fact, it was only a matter of time before Sandra would have been found there!

One could argue that MH was a "disorganized killer" and was not thinking clearly...
But WHY the note/s???

And by Golly...
Lest we forget that horrible case MH was supposedly obssesed with....
Little Rose Pisa in Israel...found dead in a SUITCASE!!!!
This is Beautiful Rose

[lonemonkey]

I had wondered if she had sandra's body out at the OLD RIVER where the cadaver dogs hit, before sandra was put in the pond.  if so, why was she moving her around? then giving clues...did she want to send the police on a wildgoose chase? then move her, then give another clue?  maybe she just wanted to watch them chase all over the place? if she really wanted to hide sandra's body for good she would have put her somewhere else, left her there and never wrote a note.  in the phone interview she seemed to think she was being a great help to the police.  what a weirdo. 

I was thinking that since the dogs found a scent, then what Johnny Williams is true. That maybe Sandra had actually been out there at some point with someone. Was the scent the dogs were given of Sandra's only?
And how long does the scent of a person last?

Monkeys
I have not heard cadaver dogs picked up her scent before ...
I know they picked up Haleigh Cummings scent at the water's edge.
I will see if I can verify that cadaver dogs picked up on her scent!

[lonemonkey]

whitehall is very close to the tom paine slough, basically it is the tom paine slough area.  again, I study serial killer cases and cases with cryptics, this area matches up with clues from other cases.  I noticed this right off because I have studied this whole area for several years.  I have believed for years there is a serial killer/killers in this area, and I became interested in this case day one because of the area and I said right off(to others) they are going to find that girl either out on the paradise cut/island, or out there at the tom paine slough.  It's very predictable when you know the patterns. 

now I could be wrong, but there is just too much matching the patterns.  what baffles me is MELISSA being the one.  she is too young for my suspicions about the serial killers in the area theory I have.  This is one of the reasons I believe she is connected to someone else.  I believe these murders have been going on for a long time and before melissa would be old enough to have been the one, so is she connected to a serial killer?  this is my thought.

HOLY COW, DD!!!!
I gotta process that there may be a series of murders.....

If you are indeed right, and given how smart I think you are...You probably are on to something...this puts a whole NEW spin on things!!!  Whoa!

[doubledecker]

I think we should start a thread on the Rose Pisa case for comparison to anything melissa might have done or any other missing/murders in the area.  I will go start a thread for that, I need to go read the rose pisa case.  There has to be a reason melissa chose that case to read about. who is just going to pick that case out of the blue?  who would even know the case existed?  I still believe it possible melissa read serial killer cases.  ok let me go read that case and start a thread to compare that case with anything melissa might have been doing.  Or someone else etc. 

[lonemonkey]

I think we should start a thread on the Rose Pisa case for comparison to anything melissa might have done or any other missing/murders in the area.  I will go start a thread for that, I need to go read the rose pisa case.  There has to be a reason melissa chose that case to read about. who is just going to pick that case out of the blue?  who would even know the case existed?  I still believe it possible melissa read serial killer cases.  ok let me go read that case and start a thread to compare that case with anything melissa might have been doing.  Or someone else etc. 

I agree 100%!!!!!!
We are the newshounds...following so many cases.  I for one had never heard of Rose before MH.  Not that I know every case...I most certainly DO NOT!
But...
It seems odd to me that she would know of this case....
Glad you started a thread for the Rose Case Connection!