Lively Case Discussion #543 11/14 - 11/15/2006

[Ono]

.
I tend to still think the shoe size ruse was to be able to say any shoes found especially with incriminating DNA belonged to a Kalpoe and not Joran who was then claiming he wore a much larger size than he did in fact.  Verified by Dutch interrogators as the smaller of the sizes.

Joran was not sure if the Kalpoes some how had his shoes or not.  I think he either lost them or they had to be disposed of and this was how he wanted to account for the shoes.  If they ever surfaced again and were the 10.5, well, that meant they belonged to one of the Kalpoes since he claimed to wear the larger size.  Very large for his age even at that height, in my opinion.

But it could be something else entirely, we just don't know.  Based on their actions, they do hold something and perhaps that if it really exists could be of tremendous help in actually proving something.  I wish they would contact deVries if they do have this whatever.

.

Anna: I concur and understand what you are saying here, but I think it's important to also keep in mind that it doesn't make sense that a guy as tall and as big - boned as Joranus Maximus, wears  a small - sized shoe.  That does not compute. However, a smaller-sized shoe could just as easily have belonged to any of the other usual suspects, and for some reason, my mind now wonders about what size would Joranus' male parent wear ????

[LilPuma]

Just jumping in here....

IMO...How ODD that Michael Posner would show up
at the Excelsior Casino on Tues/Wed.
& ask for a meeting of the staff?????

He said he was "out of town" until that morning.....

Coincidence?

His casino IS implicated in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway since Joran was the last person to be seen with her and he was there gambling, underage, when he met her.  Any good business man would want to get to the bottom of it.  A dirty businessman would be particularly interested in getting the facts to protect his interests.  If this casino is being used to launder money (probably), they have a vested interest in keeping the tourists and money coming in.  You can't hide the dirty money without the clean stuff.

[Ono]

speaking of degrees

i graduated from 5th grade



       

       I LOVED 5th grade.

[Ono]

blah writes:

On June 10th it was publicly released to the world-wide media that one of the suspects—either Joran Van Der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe, or Satish Kalpoe-- had confessed that Natalee was dead, had been buried at a given location

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=539

I feel that the confession was supposed to be from one of the security guards not one of the 3 REAL suspects. I believe that was part of the framejob of the guards. I think certain people didn't find out that the frame-up was blown wide open and were just going ahead as planned. Someone in the ALE or wherever heard them announcing the confession and had to get everyone to back track in a hurry because the frame job had to be called off. I believe this all fits into the timeline perfectly also.

Yep, and even after Beth arrived, Paulus thought he could rescue the frame up by saying there was the break in the tape.  He didn't dream Beth would stay up and look at it that same morning.

Sort of got her off on the wrong foot sotospeak with some folks.  

But this is far from the perfect crime or even the perfect cover up for there are plenty of rough edges when it is closely examined.  And this is why I cannot understand why there is the claim of no evidence.  At the least there is the glaring cover up attempt.  

I also wonder what would have happened to the SG's if Beth had not looked at the tape immediately and contacted those in the lobby all night, etc.  They could have said no tape but there were still some kids in the lobby area that would have known there was no drop off of Natalee.

They weren't as clever as they thought so why are so many pretending they don't see this clumsy work?  

.

I think Beth literally saved the security guards.....(so much for so-called Alabama racism --- false claims that the conniving culprits on Aruba betted upon---how ignorant & out of date they are on Aruba)...I remember when Beth went on TV in the States and stated that after she, herself, talked with the security guards in KIA, that she knew that they were NOT guilty....They were released shortly thereafter.

[klaasend]

blah writes:

On June 10th it was publicly released to the world-wide media that one of the suspects—either Joran Van Der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe, or Satish Kalpoe-- had confessed that Natalee was dead, had been buried at a given location

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=539

I feel that the confession was supposed to be from one of the security guards not one of the 3 REAL suspects. I believe that was part of the framejob of the guards. I think certain people didn't find out that the frame-up was blown wide open and were just going ahead as planned. Someone in the ALE or wherever heard them announcing the confession and had to get everyone to back track in a hurry because the frame job had to be called off. I believe this all fits into the timeline perfectly also.

Yep, and even after Beth arrived, Paulus thought he could rescue the frame up by saying there was the break in the tape.  He didn't dream Beth would stay up and look at it that same morning.

Sort of got her off on the wrong foot sotospeak with some folks.  

But this is far from the perfect crime or even the perfect cover up for there are plenty of rough edges when it is closely examined.  And this is why I cannot understand why there is the claim of no evidence.  At the least there is the glaring cover up attempt.  

I also wonder what would have happened to the SG's if Beth had not looked at the tape immediately and contacted those in the lobby all night, etc.  They could have said no tape but there were still some kids in the lobby area that would have known there was no drop off of Natalee.

They weren't as clever as they thought so why are so many pretending they don't see this clumsy work?  

.

I think Beth literally saved the security guards.....(so much for so-called Alabama racism --- false claims that the conniving culprits on Aruba betted upon---how ignorant & out of date they are on Aruba)...I remember when Beth went on TV in the States and stated that after she, herself, talked with the security guards in KIA, that she knew that they were NOT guilty....They were released shortly thereafter.

I agree with this.  Unfortunately, I also think that if the SG's were not "saved", Beth might have gotten Natalee's body returned to her prior to June 10th  

[Anna]

[

Anna: I concur and understand what you are saying here, but I think it's important to also keep in mind that it doesn't make sense that a guy as tall and as big - boned as Joranus Maximus, wears  a small - sized shoe.  That does not compute. However, a smaller-sized shoe could just as easily have belonged to any of the other usual suspects, and for some reason, my mind now wonders about what size would Joranus' male parent wear ????

I have a 6'3" or 4" son who wears a size 11 shoe, so I remain unconvinced Joran's feet are that large.  Feet are among the things that continue to grow our whole lives like ears and noses.  If he wears a 14 at age 17 by the time he is 60 he will be in a size 20 which I doubt.

Yes, I have considered Paulus as the one with the missing shoes but the Dutch interrogator did check the shoe size according to the Diario article and it iwas 10.5 in the jail so in any event I guess it is safe to say Joran messed with the sizes for some reason or other, we just don't know what the reason was.  If they are ever found, it may well be clear at that time but I do think it is some sort of attempt to frame Kalpoes.  To disown the shoes.

But then given Joran's ego, it may be he just got a kick out of telling the shoe story while wearing the actual shoes in question and showing them to us on Greta because he was lying about something even then.  Maybe on second thought the shoes are Joran's idea of a red herring.

.

[Ono]

TY Blah and Anna.....i could go for some popcorn......

Darleens gonna reem me later....lol...good thing i like spanklins!
Hope she can take a joke

I wouldn't worry about it...

[Florida]

Klaasend: You Got Mail!

[memphis]

I agree with this.  Unfortunately, I also think that if the SG's were not "saved", Beth might have gotten Natalee's body returned to her prior to June 10th  

I think you're right.
One day, she will be rewarded greatly for what she did.

[Anna]

Off to finish my work. . . . .

[klaasend]

Klaasend: You Got Mail!

Just responded.  Sorry, takes me a while to catch up on everything when I'm gone for a few hours, lol  

[memphis]

I'll be back tonight.

Remember, anyone who has been holding secrets, tonights the night to let them go and breath easier.  

Same as last night. Come one, come all and spill it all. This has gone on too long. Put everything on the table, er board, and let's get some resolution.  

[Ono]

Ahem.

The Murder & Crime thread has topped 4,000 views.  

  That is fantastic....way to go! Let's hope the word gets out about this creepy faux-Carribean island who thumbs their collective noses at Americans in general, and law & order in particular...to hell with it...go to Bermuda.

[klaasend]

Posted at FOB:
Caribbean Real Estate Opportunity Fund Acquires Aruba Marriott for $237M
November 14, 2006
By Eugene Gilligan, Senior Editor

Caribbean Real Estate Opportunity Fund acquired the ownership entity holding the
leasehold on the 413-room Aruba Marriott Resort & Stellaris Casino on Aruba for $237
million, in a sale that closed today, in what the advisor on the sale called one of the largest deals in Caribbean lodging history. Marriott will continue to manage the property (pictured) under a long-term management agreement with the new owners.

The resort features 20 suites with direct ocean views, a 17,000-square-foot casino, and 11,000 square feet of meeting and banquet space.

The new owners plan a renovation and repositioning of the property, said Mark Gordon, managing director and principal of Sonnenblick-Goldman, which advised Plant Hotel NV, the seller, on the transaction.

Lenders are looking more favorably at hotel properties in the Caribbean as they seek new geographic areas to lend in, Gordon said. As a result, investment in Caribbean lodging properties has strengthened recently, according to Gordon.

"These are oceanfront properties that are irreplaceable," Gordon told CPN. Aruba, which attracted 732,400 visitors in 2005, is looked on even more favorably than other Caribbean locations, Gordon said, as it is south of the "hurricane belt."

NIBC Bank NV, of the Netherlands, acted as financial advisor to Plant Hotel NV.

CPG is the managing partner in Caribbean Real Estate Opportunity Fund I, a $500m real
estate fund co-sponsored by Goldman Sachs and Perry Capital, the focus of which is to
invest in income producing real estate assets in the Caribbean and Central America

http://www.hotelschool.cornell.edu/ihe/about/board/blatt.html
Noteworthy recent matters include the representation of Caribbean Property Group, LLC in
connection with the organization of Caribbean Real Estate Opportunity Fund 2005, L.P., a
$470 million private real estate fund organized by Caribbean Property Group, Goldman
Sachs and Perry Real Estate Partners to acquire real estate assets in the Caribbean and
Central America. The Structured Real Estate Investments group, together with CooleyÆs
Real Estate group, continues to represent the fund in its acquisition of
assets

Follow-up post by MF:
Posted: Tue Nov 14th, 2006 03:04 pm
 
The Aruban government announced long time ago they will be selling all their shares in the hotels that they have and just focus in handling the country and not having to do directly with hotel operations.

The Marriot's buildings were property of the government and if I am not mistaken there are other hotels too that are property of the Aruban government that they are planning to sell and put in private hands.

The La Cabana Villas (Suites and the Casino) was also sold recently with, if I am not mistaken, a Las Vegas group that operates casinos all around the world. This consists over 400 rooms and does not include the other 400 room property that La Cabana has on the beach. They recently announced a $20 Million upgrade plan for these rooms.

[darleenofalabama]

Hey, Ya'll!  I thought I'd stop back in and apologize to ya'll; I'm ashamed of my pettiness today. Memphis, I shouldn't even have mentioned that anyone even told me about that; it really didn't hurt me, and didn't even matter.  And, FOM, Ono's right:  don't worry about it.     And, Jacqueline is right most of all, Darleen should go.  Oh, and I'll bet Robots graduated fifth grade summa cum laude!!!!   Best of luck to everyone in your work on behalf of Natalee's family; one thing you can know with certainty is that you're at the very least providing emotional support for them--and that can only help.

[Jacqueline]

Hey, Ya'll!  I thought I'd stop back in and apologize to ya'll; I'm ashamed of my pettiness today. Memphis, I shouldn't even have mentioned that anyone even told me about that; it really didn't hurt me, and didn't even matter.  And, FOM, Ono's right:  don't worry about it.     And, Jacqueline is right most of all, Darleen should go.  Oh, and I'll bet Robots graduated fifth grade summa cum laude!!!!   Best of luck to everyone in your work on behalf of Natalee's family; one thing you can know with certainty is that you're at the very least providing emotional support for them--and that can only help.

One thing we can say with certainty is that you provided un gatz.

[klaasend]

NEW FRONT PAGE POST:

Seems That Aruba is Asking For Advice … Too bad they Don’t Want to Listen to the Truth

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/2006/11/14/seems-that-aruba-is-asking-for-advice-too-bad-they-dont-want-to-listen-to-the-truth/

Aruba’s tourism is continually down as compared to other competing islands. The rest of the Caribbean is up double digits in pretty much every case.

“The facts are clear: we are down, way down,compared to other competing islands.” AHATA

[Florida]

La Cabana Villas owned by:

Louis Mansur &
Arends-Mansur

[Ono]

blah writes:

On June 10th it was publicly released to the world-wide media that one of the suspects—either Joran Van Der Sloot, Deepak Kalpoe, or Satish Kalpoe-- had confessed that Natalee was dead, had been buried at a given location

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?t=539

I feel that the confession was supposed to be from one of the security guards not one of the 3 REAL suspects. I believe that was part of the framejob of the guards. I think certain people didn't find out that the frame-up was blown wide open and were just going ahead as planned. Someone in the ALE or wherever heard them announcing the confession and had to get everyone to back track in a hurry because the frame job had to be called off. I believe this all fits into the timeline perfectly also.

Yep, and even after Beth arrived, Paulus thought he could rescue the frame up by saying there was the break in the tape.  He didn't dream Beth would stay up and look at it that same morning.

Sort of got her off on the wrong foot sotospeak with some folks.  

But this is far from the perfect crime or even the perfect cover up for there are plenty of rough edges when it is closely examined.  And this is why I cannot understand why there is the claim of no evidence.  At the least there is the glaring cover up attempt.  

I also wonder what would have happened to the SG's if Beth had not looked at the tape immediately and contacted those in the lobby all night, etc.  They could have said no tape but there were still some kids in the lobby area that would have known there was no drop off of Natalee.

They weren't as clever as they thought so why are so many pretending they don't see this clumsy work?  

.

I think Beth literally saved the security guards.....(so much for so-called Alabama racism --- false claims that the conniving culprits on Aruba betted upon---how ignorant & out of date they are on Aruba)...I remember when Beth went on TV in the States and stated that after she, herself, talked with the security guards in KIA, that she knew that they were NOT guilty....They were released shortly thereafter.

I agree with this.  Unfortunately, I also think that if the SG's were not "saved", Beth might have gotten Natalee's body returned to her prior to June 10th  

Dear Klass: You are much kinder & smarter than I, (as well as so many of our faithful here), but, Klass, PLEASE explain to me this reasoning....?? I still cannot fathom this....WHY would Natalee's remains have been returned to her family sooner if the security guards had been left to take the blame?

[hubbylove]

Dear Klass: You are much kinder & smarter than I, (as well as so many of our faithful here), but, Klass, PLEASE explain to me this reasoning....?? I still cannot fathom this....WHY would Natalee's remains have been returned to her family sooner if the security guards had been left to take the blame?

I'm not Klaas but I do agree with her on this point.  The SG's were the fall guys.  If they had taken the fall Natalee would have been returned to her family for a proper burial and J2K would have gone on with their lives as if they had just dropped Natalee off in front of her hotel.  When Beth pushed the issue and viewed the HI tapes is when the cover up began.  If the SG's could not be to blame it would immediately go back to J2K since they were the last seen with her and who I believe are the guilty parties.  They could not give Natalee back to her family because of the evidence that may have been collected to prove this.

Did I make sense??