Lively Case Discussion #543 11/14 - 11/15/2006

[Florida]

The Kalpoes are guilty by association even if they had nothing to do with Natalee's disappearance.

If they didn't know anything about it prior the pool meeting they did afterwards which makes them an accomplis and guilty after the fact.

I argee 100%... They are are the FALL GUYS

[bleachedblack]

This is a link to his diary.........http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/part_1/frame_index.html

[bleachedblack]

http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/part_1/frame_index.html

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

Conde' Nast Traveler magazine just published their Readers Choice Awards know as Best in the World!    

GUESS WHO DID NOT MAKE IT IN THE CARIBBEAN ISLANDS CATAGORY?

HOW DID YOU KNOW??? POOR ARUBA DID NOT MAKE IT!!!    

IN THE  CARIBBEAN HOTEL CATAGORY THE ARUBA MARRIOTT CAME IN 25TH!  

My agencies have not booked Aruba since the early days of Natalee missing!  No one even asks about Aruba anymore when in the past it was in our top 10 in bookings!!  

[bleachedblack]

Conde' Nast Traveler magazine just published their Readers Choice Awards know as Best in the World!    

GUESS WHO DID NOT MAKE IT IN THE CARIBBEAN ISLANDS CATAGORY?

HOW DID YOU KNOW??? POOR ARUBA DID NOT MAKE IT!!!    

IN THE  CARIBBEAN HOTEL CATAGORY THE ARUBA MARRIOTT CAME IN 25TH!  

My agencies have not booked Aruba since the early days of Natalee missing!  No one even asks about Aruba anymore when in the past it was in our top 10 in bookings!!  

WOW BOC that is going to have a few people taking their mylanta and nexium tonight!

[bleachedblack]

BOC I saw a post over at FOB today making a big deal about JetBlue starting to have 2 flights a day from JFK to aruba for a short time ...I think it was like 12/06-1/07 for $129. It was stated that the demand was so high for flights, that was why 2 per day. NOT. they already have 2 flights per day from JFK, but the price is higher. My guess is they are having lots of vacancies and so, despite it being high season.......are having a sale to fill them.

[mrs. red]

BOC I saw a post over at FOB today making a big deal about JetBlue starting to have 2 flights a day from JFK to aruba for a short time ...I think it was like 12/06-1/07 for $129. It was stated that the demand was so high for flights, that was why 2 per day. NOT. they already have 2 flights per day from JFK, but the price is higher. My guess is they are having lots of vacancies and so, despite it being high season.......are having a sale to fill them.

I suspect that you are right BBlack, they are dropping prices to nothing... in order to get people to go...

[bleachedblack]

Hey BOC Aruba does have beautiful beaches, and they haven't changed much since they used to rate in the top 10. Can only attribute the decline to the astute consumers who realize there is more to beauty than meets the eye.

[bleachedblack]

Good evening Mrs. Red

[Ono]

Dear Klass: You are much kinder & smarter than I, (as well as so many of our faithful here), but, Klass, PLEASE explain to me this reasoning....?? I still cannot fathom this....WHY would Natalee's remains have been returned to her family sooner if the security guards had been left to take the blame?

I'm not Klaas but I do agree with her on this point.  The SG's were the fall guys.  If they had taken the fall Natalee would have been returned to her family for a proper burial and J2K would have gone on with their lives as if they had just dropped Natalee off in front of her hotel.  When Beth pushed the issue and viewed the HI tapes is when the cover up began.  If the SG's could not be to blame it would immediately go back to J2K since they were the last seen with her and who I believe are the guilty parties.  They could not give Natalee back to her family because of the evidence that may have been collected to prove this.

Did I make sense??

Of course, you always make sense. However, I respectfully disagree with your mental premise which seems to take for granted what Beth & family would have dis-regarded had Natalee's body had been returned to Beth almost immediately......Do you not realize that Beth and Natalee's family would have left NO STONE UNTURNED until the truth regarding her kidnapping and demise had been ascertained and documented by American forensthic experts ----regardless what the Arubans would have reported, officially, and un-officially? I also do daresay that Natalee's family are very well-educated and are also not prone to accepting what any foreign nation states as truth until that truth is proved.

[sb]

comparing them side by side to see who has the bigger shoe. Just thinking out of the box.

Joran claimed to have lost a size 14 shoe. Who in his circle or of the suspects arrested has the bigger shoe/foot. Could it be who lost the size 14 shoe?  Or was it just an outright lie by Joran. Just a thought.

IMO, the only one that could possibly wear a 14 would be Joran. The others aren't nearly as tall as Joran and less likely to have a foot size above 10-11.

Isn't Koen a pretty big guy?

[shadow]

It has been suggested that Lorenzo has a private road that leads to his house.........................................

Meaning gated?

I was curious, you posted a few days ago regarding Peter C. that you had lots of information about him, and alluded to a boat going out and not returning for week . . . is there a connection, and can you elaborate? TIA!

[klaasend]

comparing them side by side to see who has the bigger shoe. Just thinking out of the box.

Joran claimed to have lost a size 14 shoe. Who in his circle or of the suspects arrested has the bigger shoe/foot. Could it be who lost the size 14 shoe?  Or was it just an outright lie by Joran. Just a thought.

IMO, the only one that could possibly wear a 14 would be Joran. The others aren't nearly as tall as Joran and less likely to have a foot size above 10-11.

Isn't Koen a pretty big guy?

SB, yes..I had forgotten about Koen.  It is concievable that he has a size 14 shoe size.

[mrs. red]

hey bleached.. and in fact all y'all...


I keep hearing about a discussion last night, can someone please give me highlights?

[BIGORANGECRUSH]

BOC I saw a post over at FOB today making a big deal about JetBlue starting to have 2 flights a day from JFK to aruba for a short time ...I think it was like 12/06-1/07 for $129. It was stated that the demand was so high for flights, that was why 2 per day. NOT. they already have 2 flights per day from JFK, but the price is higher. My guess is they are having lots of vacancies and so, despite it being high season.......are having a sale to fill them.

The hotels are dropping prices plus paying part of the air! They also have closed large sections of hotels for remodeling and laying off staff! That makes their vacaney rate look better in reports!

[sb]

I see the post about the what-if scenario about Beth's actions if Natalee's body had been returned.

I agree, it would have been impossible for her NOT to have called for a thorough forensic exam, and the FBI would have been more openly involved since there would have been prima-facie evidence to work with of a crime.

Paulus and the others would have known, expected, and prepared for that. Which is likely why there IS no body that has been produced, and likely never will be.

[Ono]

[

Anna: I concur and understand what you are saying here, but I think it's important to also keep in mind that it doesn't make sense that a guy as tall and as big - boned as Joranus Maximus, wears  a small - sized shoe.  That does not compute. However, a smaller-sized shoe could just as easily have belonged to any of the other usual suspects, and for some reason, my mind now wonders about what size would Joranus' male parent wear ????

I have a 6'3" or 4" son who wears a size 11 shoe, so I remain unconvinced Joran's feet are that large.  Feet are among the things that continue to grow our whole lives like ears and noses.  If he wears a 14 at age 17 by the time he is 60 he will be in a size 20 which I doubt.

Yes, I have considered Paulus as the one with the missing shoes but the Dutch interrogator did check the shoe size according to the Diario article and it iwas 10.5 in the jail so in any event I guess it is safe to say Joran messed with the sizes for some reason or other, we just don't know what the reason was.  If they are ever found, it may well be clear at that time but I do think it is some sort of attempt to frame Kalpoes.  To disown the shoes.

But then given Joran's ego, it may be he just got a kick out of telling the shoe story while wearing the actual shoes in question and showing them to us on Greta because he was lying about something even then.  Maybe on second thought the shoes are Joran's idea of a red herring.

.

Actually, I still cannot get over my instinct that this "shoe business" is just a load of bull.....a major distraction...................unless, of course, we find Natalee's body with these shoes.

[Tylergal]

Here is a link to a article written which mentions Natalee and a possible porn connection.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/334611p-285884c.html

Is that the one from last summer or is this a new one?

[shadow]

This is a link to his diary.........http://www.ikeepadiary.com/diary/2004/01_22_aruba_vacation/part_1/frame_index.html

I did'nt see anyting in these photos that IMO would be Lorenzo's basement. Am I missing something??

[klaasend]

Dear Klass: You are much kinder & smarter than I, (as well as so many of our faithful here), but, Klass, PLEASE explain to me this reasoning....?? I still cannot fathom this....WHY would Natalee's remains have been returned to her family sooner if the security guards had been left to take the blame?

I'm not Klaas but I do agree with her on this point.  The SG's were the fall guys.  If they had taken the fall Natalee would have been returned to her family for a proper burial and J2K would have gone on with their lives as if they had just dropped Natalee off in front of her hotel.  When Beth pushed the issue and viewed the HI tapes is when the cover up began.  If the SG's could not be to blame it would immediately go back to J2K since they were the last seen with her and who I believe are the guilty parties.  They could not give Natalee back to her family because of the evidence that may have been collected to prove this.

Did I make sense??

Of course, you always make sense. However, I respectfully disagree with your mental premise which seems to take for granted what Beth & family would have dis-regarded had Natalee's body had been returned to Beth almost immediately......Do you not realize that Beth and Natalee's family would have left NO STONE UNTURNED until the truth regarding her kidnapping and demise had been ascertained and documented by American forensthic experts ----regardless what the Arubans would have reported, officially, and un-officially? I also do daresay that Natalee's family are very well-educated and are also not prone to accepting what any foreign nation states as truth until that truth is proved.

Ono - I agree with everything you are saying.  All I was suggesting is that Aruba was ready to pin a MURDER charge on the Security Guards.  Because Beth/Jug and Dave knew the HI drop off was a lie they faught for the security guards innocense.  

What I'm saying is that IF Beth/Jug and Dave were not aware of the HI lie, they may have believed the security guards were guilty of murder.  No problem blaming 2 security guards for murder and rape.  Why would the security guards be arrested on murder charges on June 5th if there wasn't knowledge of a murder?  If all had gone the way ALE and others planned it, JK2 and Paulus would be "out of the woods".   Natalee's body could somehow be "found" and given to her family.

Does that make sense?