Lively Case Discussion #543 11/14 - 11/15/2006

[bleachedblack]

IMO the shoe business may sound trivial, but as with much information that was discussed here very early in the case, and then sorta qualified in the news ie the fact that Joran was missing 1 sneaker, seems to make it a real possibility. Do any of the posters here remember one of the aruba posters stating early last summer that Joran had infact gone shopping in an attempt to purchase one size 14 sneaker? This was very early....summer 2005

[shadow]

Dear Klass: You are much kinder & smarter than I, (as well as so many of our faithful here), but, Klass, PLEASE explain to me this reasoning....?? I still cannot fathom this....WHY would Natalee's remains have been returned to her family sooner if the security guards had been left to take the blame?

I'm not Klaas but I do agree with her on this point.  The SG's were the fall guys.  If they had taken the fall Natalee would have been returned to her family for a proper burial and J2K would have gone on with their lives as if they had just dropped Natalee off in front of her hotel.  When Beth pushed the issue and viewed the HI tapes is when the cover up began.  If the SG's could not be to blame it would immediately go back to J2K since they were the last seen with her and who I believe are the guilty parties.  They could not give Natalee back to her family because of the evidence that may have been collected to prove this.

Did I make sense??

Of course, you always make sense. However, I respectfully disagree with your mental premise which seems to take for granted what Beth & family would have dis-regarded had Natalee's body had been returned to Beth almost immediately......Do you not realize that Beth and Natalee's family would have left NO STONE UNTURNED until the truth regarding her kidnapping and demise had been ascertained and documented by American forensthic experts ----regardless what the Arubans would have reported, officially, and un-officially? I also do daresay that Natalee's family are very well-educated and are also not prone to accepting what any foreign nation states as truth until that truth is proved.

Ono - I agree with everything you are saying.  All I was suggesting is that Aruba was ready to pin a MURDER charge on the Security Guards.  Because Beth/Jug and Dave knew the HI drop off was a lie they faught for the security guards innocense.  

What I'm saying is that IF Beth/Jug and Dave were not aware of the HI lie, they may have believed the security guards were guilty of murder.  No problem blaming 2 security guards for murder and rape.  Why would the security guards be arrested on murder charges on June 5th if there wasn't knowledge of a murder?  If all had gone the way ALE and others planned it, JK2 and Paulus would be "out of the woods".   Natalee's body could somehow be "found" and given to her family.

Does that make sense?

IMO Perfect sense. Well stated Klass.

[bleachedblack]

Here is a link to a article written which mentions Natalee and a possible porn connection.

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/334611p-285884c.html

Is that the one from last summer or is this a new one?

That is an old article, 2005.

[klaasend]

I see the post about the what-if scenario about Beth's actions if Natalee's body had been returned.

I agree, it would have been impossible for her NOT to have called for a thorough forensic exam, and the FBI would have been more openly involved since there would have been prima-facie evidence to work with of a crime.

Paulus and the others would have known, expected, and prepared for that. Which is likely why there IS no body that has been produced, and likely never will be.

True, but if it had happened to a family less diligent the outcome of whether a body was produced might be different, IMO.

[mrs. red]

IMO the shoe business may sound trivial, but as with much information that was discussed here very early in the case, and then sorta qualified in the news ie the fact that Joran was missing 1 sneaker, seems to make it a real possibility. Do any of the posters here remember one of the aruba posters stating early last summer that Joran had infact gone shopping in an attempt to purchase one size 14 sneaker? This was very early....summer 2005

I think that was early when we still believed that people wanted to help that we now know better....and I know I am the only one that thinks so, but I still think Joran was wearing the shoes on Greta.... that smirk just said it all... that was one of those stupid little details that they threw in to make it real... I think...

[Florida]

Hey....
As anyone read my tread.... K.I.S.S. ?????

[bleachedblack]

I happen to think it was disclosed early enough that it ( the info about the missing sneaker) was probably a fact. Of course there is no way of knowing....That was one of the things we discussed last night ........the early contributions made by AG......which as the case evolved, and the involvement of her friend/neighbor became clear to many......her input changed.

[Angiex911dsptchr]

Evening Monkey Folks!!
Have a question ... sorry for bargin in..lol
I dont know how many of you were all were FP posters. way back at the beginning of the case.. before the forum was even set up.
 I have a few dumb questions for ANYONE that posted then on FP at the beginning.  If you have.. can you email me at Angiex911dsptchr@aol.com
I have been reading the FP off and on lately, and someone  peeked my interest that posted wayyyyyyyyyy back when.  TIA!! I appreciate it!
(been working a new job and havnt had much time to breath lately)
Hope you all are doing well!!

[klaasend]

Evening Monkey Folks!!
Have a question ... sorry for bargin in..lol
I dont know how many of you were all were FP posters. way back at the beginning of the case.. before the forum was even set up.
 I have a few dumb questions for ANYONE that posted then on FP at the beginning.  If you have.. can you email me at Angiex911dsptchr@aol.com
I have been reading the FP off and on lately, and someone  peeked my interest that posted wayyyyyyyyyy back when.  TIA!! I appreciate it!
(been working a new job and havnt had much time to breath lately)
Hope you all are doing well!!

Angie - email me with your question..I may be able to answer it.  You have my addy.

[shadow]

Hey....
As anyone read my tread.... K.I.S.S. ?????

Just checked it out. Very nice work! . . . I think you are onto something. But I have one question. What makes you believe that Natalee is alive, and why being from Alabama made her the chosen one?

[mrs. red]

I happen to think it was disclosed early enough that it ( the info about the missing sneaker) was probably a fact. Of course there is no way of knowing....That was one of the things we discussed last night ........the early contributions made by AG......which as the case evolved, and the involvement of her friend/neighbor became clear to many......her input changed.

it changed so quickly in hindsight... but who knew?

[bleachedblack]

I happen to think it was disclosed early enough that it ( the info about the missing sneaker) was probably a fact. Of course there is no way of knowing....That was one of the things we discussed last night ........the early contributions made by AG......which as the case evolved, and the involvement of her friend/neighbor became clear to many......her input changed.

it changed so quickly in hindsight... but who knew?

Certainly not I......

[mrs. red]

I happen to think it was disclosed early enough that it ( the info about the missing sneaker) was probably a fact. Of course there is no way of knowing....That was one of the things we discussed last night ........the early contributions made by AG......which as the case evolved, and the involvement of her friend/neighbor became clear to many......her input changed.

it changed so quickly in hindsight... but who knew?

Certainly not I......

me either but boy time does one thing... true colors definately shine through...

[Carnut]

Hey....
As anyone read my tread.... K.I.S.S. ?????

Yes, and I think it's about as convoluted a misapplication of logic as one can get.

[bleachedblack]

Why so Carnut?

[shadow]

Hey....
As anyone read my tread.... K.I.S.S. ?????

Yes, and I think it's about as convoluted a misapplication of logic as one can get.

That sounds awfully harsh . . . but who am I to say. I thought we were all here to share opinions and information.

[justinsmama]

Hey....
As anyone read my tread.... K.I.S.S. ?????

Yes, and I think it's about as convoluted a misapplication of logic as one can get.

Don't be shy, Car, tell us how you really see it.  

Where is it, Florida?

Was a pic posted last night that may be Lorenzo? If so, where might one locate it?

Hi, monkeys!

Oh, btw, having an IEP conference for Justin tomorrow, and the head of the gifted/talented program will be there. Testing demonstrated that he is very bright.  

[Lala'sMom]

Evening monkeys...tonight I am just going to sit back and relax.  What's the topic for discussion?  I didn't see any basement in those photos, did I miss something?

[Leslie]

A theory without proof or any explanation is just a guess.

[shadow]

A theory without proof or any explanation is just a guess.

And sometimes a guess leads to a thought process that uncovers explanation and proof.