Lively Case Discussion #543 11/14 - 11/15/2006

[klaasend]

MsMarple, I just took a look at the Crimes thread.  This is top-notch work!!  You are to be commended.  Everyone needs to read this thread.  While some threads are pure speculation and wishful guessing, this thread is based on facts and verifiable reports.  I'm very impressed and will make this thread one of my stops each time I login to catch up with the Monkeys.

It is excellent work.  Msmarples/Anna and others put alot of work into it.

[klaasend]

Msmarples and Anna - do you guys think I should move the Murder and Crime thread into the Important Case Document forum?

[sb]

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

[nonesuche]

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

It's too elaborate not to have been SB

[AZLady]

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

Oh, yes.  We know there are others involved in the coverup.  Key people in ALE and Prosecutor's office are involved, that's a fact.  It's a mystery how much further it spreads from there.

[nonesuche]

I just wonder if Aruba is more upset and concerned about the porn and money laundering moving elsewhere now that the world's flashlight has illuminated the dark corners.  I just bet that more Dutch officials are disturbed at these businesses leaving Aruba than the tourists not coming to Aruba!!

and online gaming as well, it is the future

[San]

Msmarples and Anna - do you guys think I should move the Murder and Crime thread into the Important Case Document forum?

Yes.

[Ono]

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

Agreed. Now, was the original kidnapping in this particular cae done on the behest & behalf of an adult ?

[Ono]

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

Agreed. Now, was the original kidnapping in this particular cae done on the behest & behalf of an adult ?

Oops..meant to say "case"..

[AZLady]

I just wonder if Aruba is more upset and concerned about the porn and money laundering moving elsewhere now that the world's flashlight has illuminated the dark corners.  I just bet that more Dutch officials are disturbed at these businesses leaving Aruba than the tourists not coming to Aruba!!

and online gaming as well, it is the future

None, I know you are aware of the huge money involved in online gambling.  My mind is boggled by the numbers alone.  Doesn't it seem odd that online gambling is perfectly legal and allowable in Aruba, yet we have not seen one picture, read one reference, or heard one person from Aruba refer to this highly lucrative business.  Online gambling is legal there, yet it is the best kept secret on that crappy little island. How come?  I find this very, very odd.

[shadow]

Ono - You could be right.  I don't feel strongly enough to banter with you about it.  I just was suggesting the possibility, but you are probably right.

I don't want to banter either...we don't know. But I have had the sneaky, creepy feeling from the beginning that whatever it was that Natalee inadvertantly fell into that evening without her knowledge was serious crime stuff and there would be no "normal" negotiation to any future resolution. Whatever it is that "they" are hiding on that crime-infested island,  Natalee was just an irritating attention getter that "they" had never counted upon. I shudder to think what really must go on behind the scenes of Aruba on a day to day basis.  I'm thinking that Joran and his band of pirates has brought on way too much attention now.  We have also witnessed the sophisticated level of coverup...equate the coverup modus operandi with what must be under the surface. Lotta doo doo.

Ono: I agree with you 100%. They, meaning, as you put it so well, that "crime -infested island" couldn't stand the attention. And, IMO I think one or more of those illegal interests has been essentially shut down, for now. Possibly re-located???

[AZLady]

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

Agreed. Now, was the original kidnapping in this particular cae done on the behest & behalf of an adult ?

After I saw the video tape of Joran and the MB girls in the casino, and Natalee talking to Paulus, I have to answer YES.  This convinced me that Paulus chose Natalee and told Joran to bring her to him/them.

[Carnut]

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

Agreed. Now, was the original kidnapping in this particular cae done on the behest & behalf of an adult ?

Nope.

[AZLady]

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

Agreed. Now, was the original kidnapping in this particular cae done on the behest & behalf of an adult ?

Nope.

Carnut, we'll have to agree to disagree.  

[msmarple]

Lala's, I can't help but think Satish's gun was used to inflict wounds upon her.  These could not be covered up or disguised.  Maybe this is the hold that the van der Sloot's have on the Kalpoe brothers.  It was Satish's gun.

I'm guessing no one knows the answer, but was that gun confiscated?

   Try this:
What if Satish couldn't do it - shoot someone - and Joran grabbed the gun and shot Natalee? (Because if Satish had shot Natalee, we wouldn't be here. It would all have been over in June 2005.)

Onward. That would be a gun with J's fingerprints, a gunshot wound, and maybe an embedded bullet.

In that event, there is literally a smoking gun out there that could be found someday. It could be under Satish's mattress, or on the floor of the Caribbean - but it could turn up.

Would make for some tense moments in the VDS lives.

I have to admit that this was literally a light bulb that just went off. Haven't really thought it through.

Oh - and thanks AZLady re. the M&C thread. Input from many Monkeys on that one.

[Carnut]

It is bigger than 3 teen guys. This is organized on an adult level. The sophistication with which it has been covered up is well beyond a pack of tenn wannabe guys.

Agreed. Now, was the original kidnapping in this particular cae done on the behest & behalf of an adult ?

Nope.

Carnut, we'll have to agree to disagree.  

I've had to do that with more than a few folks around here.

[Carnut]

Lala's, I can't help but think Satish's gun was used to inflict wounds upon her.  These could not be covered up or disguised.  Maybe this is the hold that the van der Sloot's have on the Kalpoe brothers.  It was Satish's gun.

I'm guessing no one knows the answer, but was that gun confiscated?

   Try this:
What if Satish couldn't do it - shoot someone - and Joran grabbed the gun and shot Natalee? (Because if Satish had shot Natalee, we wouldn't be here. It would all have been over in June 2005.)

Onward. That would be a gun with J's fingerprints, a gunshot wound, and maybe an embedded bullet.

In that event, there is literally a smoking gun out there that could be found someday. It could be under Satish's mattress, or on the floor of the Caribbean - but it could turn up.

Would make for some tense moments in the VDS lives.

I have to admit that this was literally a light bulb that just went off. Haven't really thought it through.

Oh - and thanks AZLady re. the M&C thread. Input from many Monkeys on that one.

Humm, why a gun?

Did it have a silencer?

[AZLady]

Lala's, I can't help but think Satish's gun was used to inflict wounds upon her.  These could not be covered up or disguised.  Maybe this is the hold that the van der Sloot's have on the Kalpoe brothers.  It was Satish's gun.

I'm guessing no one knows the answer, but was that gun confiscated?

   Try this:
What if Satish couldn't do it - shoot someone - and Joran grabbed the gun and shot Natalee? (Because if Satish had shot Natalee, we wouldn't be here. It would all have been over in June 2005.)

Onward. That would be a gun with J's fingerprints, a gunshot wound, and maybe an embedded bullet.

In that event, there is literally a smoking gun out there that could be found someday. It could be under Satish's mattress, or on the floor of the Caribbean - but it could turn up.

Would make for some tense moments in the VDS lives.

I have to admit that this was literally a light bulb that just went off. Haven't really thought it through.

Oh - and thanks AZLady re. the M&C thread. Input from many Monkeys on that one.

MsMarple, that's what I believe happened, basically.  Satish said in the polis car conversation that they did not find the gun.  He was reassuring Joran that he got rid of it--the ALE did not find it when they searched his home.  I do believe that this gun is the link that keeps the Kalpoe's alive today.  The Sloot's do not trust that the gun is permanently gone, and it is the Kalpoe's hold over them.

[nonesuche]

I just wonder if Aruba is more upset and concerned about the porn and money laundering moving elsewhere now that the world's flashlight has illuminated the dark corners.  I just bet that more Dutch officials are disturbed at these businesses leaving Aruba than the tourists not coming to Aruba!!

and online gaming as well, it is the future

None, I know you are aware of the huge money involved in online gambling.  My mind is boggled by the numbers alone.  Doesn't it seem odd that online gambling is perfectly legal and allowable in Aruba, yet we have not seen one picture, read one reference, or heard one person from Aruba refer to this highly lucrative business.  Online gambling is legal there, yet it is the best kept secret on that crappy little island. How come?  I find this very, very odd.

I think it's because so little is required to gain a license and locate servers in the Caribbean. All that is required to start an online gaming company is an application to the Minister of Justice in Aruba, who grants approval at his sole discretion.

Rudy Croes and Paulus as his special assistant and counsel? It's a business that is largely offshore, feeds upon the US and as we are now seeing, our legislators are trying to lower their feasting upon our dollars.

[klaasend]

Msmarples and Anna - do you guys think I should move the Murder and Crime thread into the Important Case Document forum?

Yes.

San says YES, anyone else?