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Author Topic: Caylee Marie Anthony #138 6/18/09 - 6/21/09  (Read 252493 times)
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Sharon/Tx
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« Reply #1320 on: June 20, 2009, 05:39:11 AM »

Excellent post, Desdemona. 

It's hard to sleep thinking about what was revealed yesterday in the autopsy report.  To think that vines were growing.... well, I can't go there, tears. 

I babysit my 2 grandbabies 10 hours a day.  One is 2 one is 3 months.  Trust me, the swimmies and overnight diapers are expensive.  I buy everything they need while they are at my house.  The 2 year old can be an angel... until I get on the phone.  That is when she cries, wants me to hold her or she finds the only crayon in the house to eat, etc. etc.  I rarely can talk on the phone or she gets into something.  If Caylee already had her overnight diaper on, she was probably getting ready for bed.  If mommy was mad or on the phone, Caylee was probably crying or wanting attention.  Did she tape her mouth to shut her up?  Did she keep adding tape in a fit of rage to stop the crying?  Did the baby die on her Winnie the Pooh blanket?  I still have a feeling the pool ladder was used to get over the fence or to drop something over the fence.  I believe she backed the car into the garage to put the wrapped body in the freezer, removing frozen food to make room.   The sandbox................. did it have a lid?  My grandaughter plays in the lid as well as the sandbox.  Was the lid used to pull or move the body?  How the heck do you go and rent videos and act normal after all of this?  I am hoping and praying that Tony can add something.

I like what you said Des, "Our little angel is speaking loud and clear!  Big trouble comes in small packages Indeed."
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« Reply #1321 on: June 20, 2009, 06:12:09 AM »

Hi Monkeys --

Crazy life events have kept me from posting.  All caught up, after watching vid of the hearing and reading autopsy report.

The laundry bag was not cinched.  The report states that there were two trash bags, one cinched and one open.  It even describes how the handles were tied.

The pink shirt said "Big Trouble Comes in Small Packages."  Picture below.

IMO a conscious toddler's lower face could not be bound in that manner unless the child's hands were bound.  I don't think we have any good evidence of that yet.  Even with hands bound, the child would squirm and be frightened -- it would not be easy.  Placing duct tape in that manner would be easier if the child were unconscious or already deceased.

If Leslee is correct that the purple elastic band is from an overnight pull-up, that gives us something to think about.  Prepared for bedtime?  Killed while sleeping or in the morning?  Premeditation by someone who knows that death causes voiding?

The adipocere evidence on the paper towels from Tony's trash bag is confusing to me.  Adipocere can form on plastic bags in humid environments.  So did Casey try to handle one of the garbage bags Caylee was in, and get some on her hands, then wipe her hands on a paper towel that had been in Tony's trash bag in her trunk?  (The marijuana evidence on the paper towel could perhaps mean it had been in Tony's apartment!  The air was thick with pot smoke, IMO.)

Someone said the hyoid bone was not recovered, but I thought the report stated that it was... Anyway, an intact hyoid bone in a child does not rule out strangulation... though I don't believe Caylee was strangled.  Possible, though... a spiteful b*tch thing, after being throttled herself by her own mother, maybe?

Regarding the sand/silt:  The soil in the Orlando area contains a lot of sand.  But you know, I seem to recall reading that there was an empty(?) bag of play sand found at the Suburban site.  It gave me all kinds of imaginings regarding the sandbox, the JCPenney charges, the shovel, etc.

A1 asked about the toy horse and the heart sticker.  They were not mentioned in the autopsy report b/c they were found elsewhere at the scene and were not part of the packaging of the remains that went to the medical examiner's office.  They were itemized in the other reports, though.  I don't remember seeing a photo of the little horse...

From memory, I believe LE confiscated some Huggies Swimmers from the closet or drawer(?) in the computer room.  ICBW.

The news story that states there was evidence in the trunk that a person died due to a lack of oxygen is bad interpretation of the reports.  Anaerobic decomposition is what the report mentions, and this term causes much confusion.  Just means that decomposition is taking place in an airtight or near-airtight environment, like being sealed tightly in something.  It creates different decomp gases/chemicals than aerobic, or aerated environments.  (Does not mean that the deceased's body emits gases that indicate they died of lack of oxygen.)

I am leery of "jumping in" on the pool theories.  One reason is that I have not noticed LE focusing particularly on that in interviews, search warrants, or forensic testing requests.  If the pool was involved I'll be the first to say I was wrong, but my instincts are saying no.

Am leaning toward smothering in rage, to silence a crying or yelling Caylee, then covering her mouth with duct tape, then stashing her in the trunk.  Am thinking the car backing into the garage (6/18?) was first to put the blanket-wrapped body into a trash bag to contain decomp fluids, second time (6/19or20?) to double-bag her decomposing body.  I think Casey already had the laundry bag in her trunk or at Tony's, and either used it for convenience on disposal day, or used it to hide Caylee's bagged body in the bottom of the laundry bag, covering her with dirty clothes as camouflage.  George stated that when the trunk was opened at the towyard, he saw "clothes" in there.  He also said IIRC in one of his versions of gas can day (or maybe Cindy said this) that he saw clothes in the trunk before Casey slammed it shut.

As for the toxicology report stating that the negative result on these bones/hair does not rule out drugging, I believe that testing on bones and hair could only detect previous or long-term drugs in the system.  Am I wrong?  I don't believe that if a drug or toxic gas were used as a part of her killing it would have time to show up in bone or hair...

Now.  I know that Lee had a roommate.  And I know that this is really "out there."  But check out this myspace message Casey left for Lee on June 23:

23-Jun-08 12:40 PM Casey Anthony (Orlando, FL) wrote Lee "here's my question...
is 'the windy city' an appropriate nickname for chicago? is it really THAT windy?
i've always wondered."


How long was Lee in Chicago?  Was it for his parking company job?  White Sox games maybe?  I think play-offs were happening then.  Here's a wiki link on the White Sox schedule for June of last year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chicago_White_Sox_season#June  (You have to scroll down a bit.)  Could Lee have been out of town for a week or two, including the time of Caylee's death?  IIRC he said the last time he saw Caylee was June 5, at the A's home.

What if Casey used Lee's house... what if there is a freezer at Lee's house... cell phone pings would probably mimic those at the A's house, maybe?  I always thought it was so odd for Casey to have a bag of freezer food from home when she abandoned the car that day.  The "make room for a body in the freezer" theory is outlandish, but within the realm of the possible for sure, IMO.

I'm so tired... sorry if this doesn't make sense.  Just letting my imagination roam.

Sorry so long and rushed; don't know how soon I will be able to post again.  Love ya, Monks... will be back when I can.  Lots going on.

P.S.  Loved Morgan's awesome motion!

Our little angel is speaking loud and clear!  Big Trouble Comes in Small Packages indeed.

God Bless Our Caylee.
 an angelic monkey
 

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« Reply #1322 on: June 20, 2009, 06:13:31 AM »

Oops, Great post Desi.  Thank you for answering my questions about the toys and the heart sticker. 
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« Reply #1323 on: June 20, 2009, 07:30:04 AM »

Good Morning Monkeys !!

lookin' good A-1........mmeeeoowww !!! Monkey Devil!

Looks like you all had a big document release yesterday? gonna grab some coffee and see if I can catch up a little bit...

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We will never be able to make a woman want her child. But we as a society could make a safe haven for those children in that situation. Let not one more child die from lack of wanting... We could call it the Caylee House.
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« Reply #1324 on: June 20, 2009, 08:05:33 AM »

Good Morning Monkeys. 
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« Reply #1325 on: June 20, 2009, 08:11:33 AM »



Sea Man!!!

 

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« Reply #1326 on: June 20, 2009, 08:11:45 AM »

Nancy Grace Transcripts
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/19/ng.01.html

Nancy Grace video for those who missed it.
Also has Issues with Jane Velez Mitchell.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Sierra1947

Issues with Jane Velez Mitchell Transcripts
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/19/ijvm.01.html
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« Reply #1327 on: June 20, 2009, 08:22:35 AM »

Nancy Grace Transcripts
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/19/ng.01.html

<snipped>

I`m Jean Casarez of the legal network In Session, in for Nancy Grace tonight. The autopsy report also states, quote, "Although there is no trauma evident on the skeleton, there is duct tape over the lower facial region, still attached to the head hair. The duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition." It also says that duct tape was over the nose.

Let`s go back to the attorneys right now, Bill Scheaffer, former prosecutor, Florida attorney, WFTV legal analyst with us today. He was in court today. Mickey Sherman, criminal defense attorney, author, "How Can You Defend Those People?" Great title for a book. And Alex Sanchez, defense attorney out of New York.

First of all, to Bill Scheaffer. Reading this autopsy report -- you know, we all wait for the moment in court during the trial when the medical examiner steps up and testifies for the prosecution. What do you think the strongest point for the prosecution is in this autopsy report?

BILL SCHEAFFER, FORMER PROSECUTOR: The strongest point is the fact that they found the body clothed in the pink shirt with the lettering on it that George Anthony said Caylee was wearing when he last saw her, and the person he last saw her with was the mother, Casey. And always, the last person that was seen with the victim certainly is the suspect and usually turns out to be the killer. That, coupled with the forensic evidence that linked articles found at the crime scene to Casey Anthony`s home, establishes a pretty strong chain of circumstance evidence in this case.

CASAREZ: Mickey, there was no cause of death. No cause of death. How far will that go to help the defense?

MICKEY SHERMAN, DEFENSE ATTORNEY: And I disagree a little bit with the last opinion because neither one of those things really makes the ball get closer to the finish line for the state. I think what the most -- strongest evidence was today from the autopsy is the moral outrage and absolute scary, heinous act of the thought of putting duct tape along this child`s mouth. That is just so upsetting to most people. That will put the nail in the coffin more than (INAUDIBLE)

CASAREZ: Mickey, we`ve learned tonight not one layer, but several layers of duct tape.
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« Reply #1328 on: June 20, 2009, 08:28:18 AM »

To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, what impact on someone, especially the jury, could these photos have?

GLASS: I think they can have a great impact, because when they see what has happened, it will be devastating for them to look at.

And when you realize that there may have been several pieces of duct tape that were placed over her mouth, it shows that this was an act of rage.


http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/19/ng.01.html

I want that ***** to fry. 
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« Reply #1329 on: June 20, 2009, 08:36:50 AM »

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/19795725/detail.html

Caylee's Autopsy Results Released
Forensics Expert Questions Content Of Autopsy Report

POSTED: Thursday, June 18, 2009
UPDATED: 7:18 pm EDT June 19, 2009
<snipped>
Forensics expert Dr. Larry Kobilinski is advising Casey Anthony's defense team. He questioned much of what was included in the autopsy report.

"That is really not clear cut, I must say. It is not clear how the child died and if you don’t know how the child died, you really can't know it was a homicide," Kobilinski said.

Kobilinski noted that it only takes two weeks for a body to skeletonize in a Florida swamp, and he questioned the medical examiner's conclusions about when the body was put in the woods.

"I think that there are experts that might disagree with that. There is a question about when the body was placed there," Kobilinski said.
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« Reply #1330 on: June 20, 2009, 08:41:21 AM »



Sea Man!!!

 



Good Morning Bearly

sorry...was taking a shower (no pics Trimm )
I hope everything is good with you...trying to catch up yesterdays info..
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We will never be able to make a woman want her child. But we as a society could make a safe haven for those children in that situation. Let not one more child die from lack of wanting... We could call it the Caylee House.
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« Reply #1331 on: June 20, 2009, 08:41:27 AM »

Georgie just took an oath to tell the truth....I hope everyone is covering themselves, lightning is about to strike.

 

This took me so unaware, I am glad I didn't have anything in my mouth or someone would be calling 911.

 

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« Reply #1332 on: June 20, 2009, 08:41:57 AM »

Interview on Greta with the Badens, seems like he is changing his story after watching him on fox earlier because his wife was now there with him, reminds me of George and Cindy, he is a whimp just like George. Linda says trial more likely to be June of next year






http://www.pddnet.com/news-ap-interview-with-michael-baden-linda-baden-best-of-062009/
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« Reply #1333 on: June 20, 2009, 08:42:39 AM »

Good Morning Monks!

This comment appeared on blinkoncrime.com, and I found it fascinating so I thought I would share. It really might be the impetus for the duct tape, at least initially. Is a tad clinical, I do apologize, but if you have ever seen a recently deceased individual, this is 100% true-

Posted by CB:

No chloroform, etc. found. No trauma. No obvious means of death. Had to be homocide, 3-yr old children do not just up and die w/o some detectable cause and too old for SIDS. Ergo, I think she drowned, how I don’t know, accident or accidently on purpose. The duct tape applied post mortem. Have you heard the term, positive “O” sign. Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________ (fill in the blank). I’ve been lurking a long time and just cannot keep quiet any longer with my opinion, JMHO! Feel free to delete this as I’m the first to say it is gruesome and many won’t want to hear or know this nity-grity. Blink, I told you I would comment at some point when I had learned more. So…..this is it. CB “onionskin”

Blinks Response:

You know what CB/Onionskin? That is fascinating and I have never thought of that. You very well could be 100% correct, at least in the trigger for the duct tape in the first place. I honestly dont think there is anything more gruesome than what we already know.
B


Just throwing it out there, Maybe one of our Medical Monks (Northern Rose) can weigh in?

B
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« Reply #1334 on: June 20, 2009, 08:43:07 AM »



Sea Man!!!

 



Good Morning Bearly

sorry...was taking a shower (no pics Trimm )
I hope everything is good with you...trying to catch up yesterdays info..

Pic locked and loaded!!!

 

Good morning, Monkeys!!!

 

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Time spent with monkeys is never wasted. 
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« Reply #1335 on: June 20, 2009, 08:45:17 AM »

Did we ever find out who the bald headed guy was next to Cindy today? It didn't seem to be some random person she didn't know, maybe a relative?

I haven't had time to look back at pictures during the time Caylee was missing. But I have seen him before, and I believe he was at the Anthony house. I am thinking it was during the time of the protesters when Casey got out of jail after Lenny left. I think he is a body guard or someone that worked for the bonding company. He has been in court before, just not sitting with the Anthonys. IIRC
I think he has been in court before but always sitting on the prosecution side.He looks a little like author Keith Ablow(sp),the one who writes great books and wrote a book about monsterscottpeterscum.
I guess he could also be from CBS,NBC,ABC or CNN there to collect more stories from the deal/s the anthonys made/will make from the blood of thier sweet Granddaughter Caylee.
Good morning Monkeys

Keith Ablow's web site:
http://livingthetruth.com/about-keith.php

Keith Ablow images:
http://images.google.com/images?sourceid=navclient&rlz=1T4GZHZ_enUS250US250&q=Keith+Ablow&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=Tdk8SqmZCqXwMvf1uKEO&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title
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« Reply #1336 on: June 20, 2009, 08:46:21 AM »

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/19795725/detail.html

Caylee's Autopsy Results Released
Forensics Expert Questions Content Of Autopsy Report

POSTED: Thursday, June 18, 2009
UPDATED: 7:18 pm EDT June 19, 2009
<snipped>
Forensics expert Dr. Larry Kobilinski is advising Casey Anthony's defense team. He questioned much of what was included in the autopsy report.

"That is really not clear cut, I must say. It is not clear how the child died and if you don’t know how the child died, you really can't know it was a homicide," Kobilinski said.

Kobilinski noted that it only takes two weeks for a body to skeletonize in a Florida swamp, and he questioned the medical examiner's conclusions about when the body was put in the woods.

"I think that there are experts that might disagree with that. There is a question about when the body was placed there," Kobilinski said.


He just makes me wanna:   

Also hi SEA, good to SEE you! Morning monkeys!!!
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« Reply #1337 on: June 20, 2009, 08:48:43 AM »

Good Morning Monks!

This comment appeared on blinkoncrime.com, and I found it fascinating so I thought I would share. It really might be the impetus for the duct tape, at least initially. Is a tad clinical, I do apologize, but if you have ever seen a recently deceased individual, this is 100% true-

Posted by CB:

No chloroform, etc. found. No trauma. No obvious means of death. Had to be homocide, 3-yr old children do not just up and die w/o some detectable cause and too old for SIDS. Ergo, I think she drowned, how I don’t know, accident or accidently on purpose. The duct tape applied post mortem. Have you heard the term, positive “O” sign. Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________ (fill in the blank). I’ve been lurking a long time and just cannot keep quiet any longer with my opinion, JMHO! Feel free to delete this as I’m the first to say it is gruesome and many won’t want to hear or know this nity-grity. Blink, I told you I would comment at some point when I had learned more. So…..this is it. CB “onionskin”

Blinks Response:

You know what CB/Onionskin? That is fascinating and I have never thought of that. You very well could be 100% correct, at least in the trigger for the duct tape in the first place. I honestly dont think there is anything more gruesome than what we already know.
B


Just throwing it out there, Maybe one of our Medical Monks (Northern Rose) can weigh in?

B


In the ICU, suddenly if someone stroked out and we had to call a doctor, we described it as an O or a Q.  An O being as CB described, a Q is an O when the tongue will no longer stay in the mouth (beyond an O).

Sorry for the graphic, those that think in pictures.

 
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Time spent with monkeys is never wasted. 
I believe in miracles!
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« Reply #1338 on: June 20, 2009, 08:51:36 AM »

Hey Sea 
You will be busy trying to catch up I'm sure.
I'll hold back the photo for the time being.......    Monkey Devil!
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« Reply #1339 on: June 20, 2009, 08:52:52 AM »

The other thing is - How could George not have smelled something when he was at the trunk of Casey's car on the 24th?  I'm thinking the only two places she would have put Caylee before dumping her in the woods would be somewhere at the house or in her trunk.  Either place George would have had to have smelled.
Yes,I said the same thing months ago,by the 24th of June that car had to be kicking with the smell and all of a sudden.....george's nose is not working.
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