Caylee Marie Anthony #138 6/18/09 - 6/21/09

[Sea Searcher]

Hey Sea 
You will be busy trying to catch up I'm sure.
I'll hold back the photo for the time being.......   

Hey Trimm....I don't think I can ever fully catch up but I'm trying not to lag behind too far.

Interesting post Blink...I always thought that the duct tape was put on before KC suffocated her with a pillow or similar..but the "O" thing make some sense even to someone like me, who is medically illiterate. Just not sure about the drowning part of it..

[Nut44x4]

To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, what impact on someone, especially the jury, could these photos have?

GLASS: I think they can have a great impact, because when they see what has happened, it will be devastating for them to look at.

And when you realize that there may have been several pieces of duct tape that were placed over her mouth, it shows that this was an act of rage.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/19/ng.01.html

I want that ***** to fry. 

YEA!!!!! GO TRIM!!! (soon i will have everyone in 'fry' mode) 

[karenmamo]

monkeys,
i just don't have it in me tonight.  casey wrapped that babies face in duct tape and thats what killed her.  from chin to nose.  maybe after that she put her in the pool, maybe she didn't?  george and cindy got that car back and scrubbed the hell out of it.they knew!  what on earth would make someone do that?  really??  what did casey have on them to make them cover up for her?  yeayeayea..they love her (casey) my foot!  i understand loving your kid but Come On?  (oh jeeze, i just quoted casey )  What puts casey before Caylee?  'cause she's still alive??  i just can't buy that.

I am with you on this. There is MORE to this story. And you betcha we will all stay tuned.
I have wondered like some of you monkeys for a long time now what is the big family secret.
Not for just the reasons you quoted, but from the beginning we saw this family self-isolated. I have forgotten the correct term. But a family with a big bad secret keep the doors closed to outsiders. We have speculated, wondered and thought this out. There is the obvious secret of paternity we have all considered. But there could be other secrets. Many possibilities to this nasty secret. ( As a child, I knew two of these 'isolated' families and in both cases the cause was SHAME.)

[Blink34]

Hi Monkeys --

Crazy life events have kept me from posting.  All caught up, after watching vid of the hearing and reading autopsy report.

The laundry bag was not cinched.  The report states that there were two trash bags, one cinched and one open.  It even describes how the handles were tied.

Has everyone seen a pic of this laundry bag? When I had, it changed my thoughts entirely. It looks more like a small suitcase type container with metal boning at the top belong the carry handles?
The pink shirt said "Big Trouble Comes in Small Packages."  Picture below.

IMO a conscious toddler's lower face could not be bound in that manner unless the child's hands were bound.  I don't think we have any good evidence of that yet.  Even with hands bound, the child would squirm and be frightened -- it would not be easy.  Placing duct tape in that manner would be easier if the child were unconscious or already deceased.

I actually logged on this morning because this was gnawing at me all last evening. I completely agree with Desi on this. I have always said I believed the duct tape was applied post mortem, but a poster on the blinksite brought up the "O" theory, for which I believe may very well have been Casey's compulsion to apply the duct tape in the first place. If you can fathom it, the duct tape application if viewed in that sense, is Casey's way of "fixing her" and "I'm sorry" with the heart sticker. Either way, absent any evidence of Caylee's own little hands attempting to remove the tape and any signs of her extremeties being tied, I think we should assume this was applied post mortem, imo, and as usual Desi had a stellar example.  

If Leslee is correct that the purple elastic band is from an overnight pull-up, that gives us something to think about.  Prepared for bedtime?  Killed while sleeping or in the morning?  Premeditation by someone who knows that death causes voiding?

The adipocere evidence on the paper towels from Tony's trash bag is confusing to me.  Adipocere can form on plastic bags in humid environments.  So did Casey try to handle one of the garbage bags Caylee was in, and get some on her hands, then wipe her hands on a paper towel that had been in Tony's trash bag in her trunk?  (The marijuana evidence on the paper towel could perhaps mean it had been in Tony's apartment!  The air was thick with pot smoke, IMO.)

I believe this is evidence the bag ripped that Caylee was in (or simple spilled when turned over in the trunk) thus why Casey went back and took both gas cans. She attempted to clean up the trunk at Tonys taking the garbage bag out of the house and paper towels blotted the "stain". She realized immediately that was not going to work and dumped the 50/50 gas in the trunk. Did not work either, she had to dump the car on the 27th.[/b]

Someone said the hyoid bone was not recovered, but I thought the report stated that it was... Anyway, an intact hyoid bone in a child does not rule out strangulation... though I don't believe Caylee was strangled.  Possible, though... a spiteful b*tch thing, after being throttled herself by her own mother, maybe?

I do not believe the hyoid bone was recovered unless I missed it, if it were found intact, in a child that small I do feel strangulation would have been highly unlikely, however, I concur I dont think Caylee was strangled.

Regarding the sand/silt:  The soil in the Orlando area contains a lot of sand.  But you know, I seem to recall reading that there was an empty(?) bag of play sand found at the Suburban site.  It gave me all kinds of imaginings regarding the sandbox, the JCPenney charges, the shovel, etc.

A1 asked about the toy horse and the heart sticker.  They were not mentioned in the autopsy report b/c they were found elsewhere at the scene and were not part of the packaging of the remains that went to the medical examiner's office.  They were itemized in the other reports, though.  I don't remember seeing a photo of the little horse...

From memory, I believe LE confiscated some Huggies Swimmers from the closet or drawer(?) in the computer room.  ICBW.

The news story that states there was evidence in the trunk that a person died due to a lack of oxygen is bad interpretation of the reports.  Anaerobic decomposition is what the report mentions, and this term causes much confusion.  Just means that decomposition is taking place in an airtight or near-airtight environment, like being sealed tightly in something.  It creates different decomp gases/chemicals than aerobic, or aerated environments.  (Does not mean that the deceased's body emits gases that indicate they died of lack of oxygen.)

Excellent Analysis on a difficult subject matter.

I am leery of "jumping in" on the pool theories.  One reason is that I have not noticed LE focusing particularly on that in interviews, search warrants, or forensic testing requests.  If the pool was involved I'll be the first to say I was wrong, but my instincts are saying no.
I can't say whether or not she was in the pool, but I do feel very confident Casey is going to say George and Cindy or just Cindy had her in the pool on the 17th and thats how she died. And the Zanny stuff was made up to protect them. No doubt in my mind.[/b]

Am leaning toward smothering in rage, to silence a crying or yelling Caylee, then covering her mouth with duct tape, then stashing her in the trunk.  Am thinking the car backing into the garage (6/18?) was first to put the blanket-wrapped body into a trash bag to contain decomp fluids, second time (6/19or20?) to double-bag her decomposing body.  I think Casey already had the laundry bag in her trunk or at Tony's, and either used it for convenience on disposal day, or used it to hide Caylee's bagged body in the bottom of the laundry bag, covering her with dirty clothes as camouflage.  George stated that when the trunk was opened at the towyard, he saw "clothes" in there.  He also said IIRC in one of his versions of gas can day (or maybe Cindy said this) that he saw clothes in the trunk before Casey slammed it shut.

I dont think George ever got near the back of the trunk in his alleged visit from her 6/24, remember the here's your effin gas cans?

As for the toxicology report stating that the negative result on these bones/hair does not rule out drugging, I believe that testing on bones and hair could only detect previous or long-term drugs in the system.  Am I wrong?  I don't believe that if a drug or toxic gas were used as a part of her killing it would have time to show up in bone or hair...

Pretty much true, although though I do not know the effect on those results from her remains exposure.

Now.  I know that Lee had a roommate.  And I know that this is really "out there."  But check out this myspace message Casey left for Lee on June 23:

23-Jun-08 12:40 PM Casey Anthony (Orlando, FL) wrote Lee "here's my question...
is 'the windy city' an appropriate nickname for chicago? is it really THAT windy?
i've always wondered."

How long was Lee in Chicago?  Was it for his parking company job?  White Sox games maybe?  I think play-offs were happening then.  Here's a wiki link on the White Sox schedule for June of last year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chicago_White_Sox_season#June  (You have to scroll down a bit.)  Could Lee have been out of town for a week or two, including the time of Caylee's death?  IIRC he said the last time he saw Caylee was June 5, at the A's home.

What if Casey used Lee's house... what if there is a freezer at Lee's house... cell phone pings would probably mimic those at the A's house, maybe?  I always thought it was so odd for Casey to have a bag of freezer food from home when she abandoned the car that day.  The "make room for a body in the freezer" theory is outlandish, but within the realm of the possible for sure, IMO.

Lee's house was .25 mi from the Anthonys, yes, pings would include his house and fall under the + or - ratio of their reliability.

I'm so tired... sorry if this doesn't make sense.  Just letting my imagination roam.

Sorry so long and rushed; don't know how soon I will be able to post again.  Love ya, Monks... will be back when I can.  Lots going on.

P.S.  Loved Morgan's awesome motion!

Back off my man, you and SunnyTX are gonna get it (teehee)

Our little angel is speaking loud and clear!  Big Trouble Comes in Small Packages indeed.

God Bless Our Caylee.
 
 

Awesome thoughts and Questions Desi- Hope you can get back soon, Blink in Red.
B

[trimmonthelake]

http://www.myorangeclerk.com/myclerk/Details.aspx?SessionID=e9f85ef9-d4bc-4507-a179-833a4ec79fa5&CaseID=6079536
6/19/2009     A     APPEAR. OF ATTORNEY ENTERED
6/19/2009    A    CORRESPONDENCE FILED BETWEEN JA & LEGAL ASSISTANT RE: ORDER TO STAY ORDER FOR SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM
6/19/2009    A    DEFENDANT NOT PRESENT
6/19/2009    A    DEFENSE WITNESS SWORN AND TESTIFIED -GEORGE ANTHONY
6/19/2009    A    MOTION COMPEL PHOTOGRAPHS
6/19/2009    A    MOTION TO QUASH SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM (COPY RCVD F/JUDGE)
6/19/2009    A    IN OPEN COURT HEARING MOTION TO RESTRICT DISCLOSURE
6/19/2009    A    MOTION TO RESTRICT DISCLOSURE OF THE AUTOPSY REPORT AND FINDINGS IS HEREBY DENIED. DEFENSE MOTION FOR A 48HOUR STAY IS HEREBY DENIED.
6/19/2009    A    ORDER TO STAY ON ORDER FOR SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM FOR ANTHONY LAZZARO THE COURT ORDERS THE FOLLOWING: THE COURT SHALL STAY IT'S ORDER FOR SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM FOR ANTHONY LAZZARO UNTIL AFTER A HEARING CAN BE HEARD & AN ORDER ENTERED ON MR. LAZZARO'S MOTION TO QUASH SUBPOENA DUCES TECUM.

[KarmaRoundUp]

It's very possible Casey thought her car had been stolen from Amscot parking lot. When she went back with the gas can that Amy bought, the car was gone. She must have been feeling pretty care-free after discovering it was gone.....her plan worked, so she thought....until Momma Ratchet showed up at Tony's freaking out about the car. Casey had to think fast on her feet and come up with plan B story......not so easy to do if he car was out of the equation.....kidnapping, car-jacking scenario not gonna fly

Right but in order for this plan to play out wouldn't casey had filed a stolen car report?

[trimmonthelake]

Blink said:I can't say whether or not she was in the pool, but I do feel very confident Casey is going to say George and Cindy or just Cindy had her in the pool on the 17th and thats how she died. And the Zanny stuff was made up to protect them. No doubt in my mind.[/b]
***************************

I can see that happening.Beep,beep,here comes the bus. 

[trimmonthelake]

To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, what impact on someone, especially the jury, could these photos have?

GLASS: I think they can have a great impact, because when they see what has happened, it will be devastating for them to look at.

And when you realize that there may have been several pieces of duct tape that were placed over her mouth, it shows that this was an act of rage.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/19/ng.01.html

I want that ***** to fry. 

YEA!!!!! GO TRIM!!! (soon i will have everyone in 'fry' mode) 

  I have no problem with fry mode.

[Bearlyhere]

Mind you they were both laughing it up right prior - hope they enjoyed their crap cakes because this is the beginning of the end for that diabolic family...the chickens are coming home to roost!

I don't know why, but him carrying and looking at that picture just pisses me off. They have had NO RESPECT or caring for that baby from the beginning of this and now to carry that picture around is nothing but a diabolical plan to influence the court.

IMO, George could not have made a worse choice.  Seeing that picture seals the deal for me.

He brings the most publicized picture of Caylee to a hearing on not making her remains public.  It reminds me of the fact they sold that little girl, bone by bone, piece by piece.   They (C & G) are parasites literally living off the body of a beautiful baby with a loving spirit.

I have a picture of my nephew (many of you know passed when he was 20) in my folder that I bring to meetings for my son (many of you know, he is affected by autism).  I do not hold the picture in front of me like a banner.  It is there for me only, to comfort my heart and to remember him, it adds fight to my spirit.  That showman's procession, where he is holding that commercialized picture of Caylee in front of him like a badge of entitlement, tells me everything I need to know about George. 

Jojo is using that trusting baby as a shield to deflect any truth coming his way.

[Bearlyhere]

To Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist, what impact on someone, especially the jury, could these photos have?

GLASS: I think they can have a great impact, because when they see what has happened, it will be devastating for them to look at.

And when you realize that there may have been several pieces of duct tape that were placed over her mouth, it shows that this was an act of rage.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0906/19/ng.01.html

I want that ***** to fry. 

YEA!!!!! GO TRIM!!! (soon i will have everyone in 'fry' mode) 

  I have no problem with fry mode.

A friend of mine says it this way, "some people just have to be kissed back up to God."

I still have trouble with the death penalty, I believe vengeance belongs to the Lord, and it is never okay to take a life.  (I am talking premeditated not in an effort to save yourself).

I respect our right to disagree, especially with Trimm and Nutt, two of my favorite champions of justice. 

[joesamas mama]

Morning Monkeys.

[Bearlyhere]

Morning Monkeys.

Morning!  Got skates?

[eyecare2]

Hi I am a newbie here and have a question about 6/16 the last time George says he saw Caylee and Casey.  Is there any mention anywhere if Casey's car was in the driveway?  Since some people are doubting George saw them on the 16th just before 1pm, others say Casey took off with Caylee after a huge fight with Cindy the night of the 15th.   If this was mentioned somewhere it would clear up any confusion or doubt that George did see them on the 16th at about 1pm.

[joesamas mama]

Hi I am a newbie here and have a question about 6/16 the last time George says he saw Caylee and Casey.  Is there any mention anywhere if Casey's car was in the driveway?  Since some people are doubting George saw them on the 16th just before 1pm, others say Casey took off with Caylee after a huge fight with Cindy the night of the 15th.   If this was mentioned somewhere it would clear up any confusion or doubt that George did see them on the 16th at about 1pm.

I don't think anyone has ever said her car was in the driveway that day. I think the neighbor just remembered her car being backed into the driveway when he was mowing his yard. Welcome to the cage. JSM

[joesamas mama]

Morning Monkeys.

Morning!  Got skates?

Yes ma'am and I am off to the rink in about an hour. 

[MuffyBee]

Good morning and welcome to Scared Monkeys eyecare2   

[BooMonkey]

Welcome Eyecare2! These are the best monkeys in the world.

[Bearlyhere]

Hi I am a newbie here and have a question about 6/16 the last time George says he saw Caylee and Casey.  Is there any mention anywhere if Casey's car was in the driveway?  Since some people are doubting George saw them on the 16th just before 1pm, others say Casey took off with Caylee after a huge fight with Cindy the night of the 15th.   If this was mentioned somewhere it would clear up any confusion or doubt that George did see them on the 16th at about 1pm.

Welcome to the Cage, IC2!!!


It could also mean that Casey was there and Caylee had passed and was still in the room, or that she was in the trunk.

[joesamas mama]

Welcome Eyecare2! These are the best monkeys in the world.

Hi Boo! Glad to see you here. Hugs and Luv. JSM 

[Bearlyhere]

Welcome Eyecare2! These are the best monkeys in the world.

Boo!!!  I am so sorry for your pain, I love you!!!

I am so glad you are here and see you are our new monkey greeter.

My name is Boo.
How do you do?