Caylee Marie Anthony #138 6/18/09 - 6/21/09

[N2WISHN]

And WHY have so many high priced lawyers signed on to defending this  ?
They have the same info we do and more !
Oh, I forgot, book sales. LKBaden has a book. Andrea Lyon ( who was a no name to most of us before ) has a book. Remind me to never read a thing either one of them writes.

Take a look at some of their previous clients, phil spector for example. Shows me they have not one iota of integrity. It's all about the fame and the money it brings in, the book sales you mentioned for one.

[no rose colored glasses]

And WHY have so many high priced lawyers signed on to defending this  ?
They have the same info we do and more !
Oh, I forgot, book sales. LKBaden has a book. Andrea Lyon ( who was a no name to most of us before ) has a book. Remind me to never read a thing either one of them writes.

Book sales, names becoming a household name, another notch in the belt. The vultures always come out with a high profile case.

[no rose colored glasses]

leslee, that is about what I'm thinking happened also. It all sort of fits.

[monkalicious]

And WHY have so many high priced lawyers signed on to defending this  ?
They have the same info we do and more !
Oh, I forgot, book sales. LKBaden has a book. Andrea Lyon ( who was a no name to most of us before ) has a book. Remind me to never read a thing either one of them writes.

Consider yourself reminded. And I found these pictures of LKB...

[Northern Rose]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guest! Welcome to all the new Monkeys!

I have now read through the autopsy reports 3 times. I had a really hard time letting the evil of what KC did to really sink in. How any human could do that to their own child is beyond me. I have no remorse at wanting to see KC fry. My opinion is just my opinion, but I think Caylee died on the night of the 15th after the big fight. I do not think the fight had to do with the stolen money from Grandma Shirley. I feel that Caylee may have told Cindy something that day. And I don't think George saw them on the 16th as stated. The clothes he described are the same as KC described her wearing on the 9th. And it is not what was found with her little body. I don't think she was ever placed in a freezer...the food KC had was on the 27th .I think she duct taped her and put her in the trunk on the 15th. She was no where to be seen on the night of the 16th. I have seen a dead body after a few days. It is not a pretty site. Caylee weighed I think about 35 lbs. By day two she would have weighed more like 50 lbs or more in the heat. Sorry to be so graphic..but it is what it is. After 4-5 days she would not have been able to pick the body up to bag it without it erupting and having bodily fluids all over everything in close proximity. She may have been able to put it into a second bag and then the laundry hamper within the 2-3 day mark. I truly think Caylee was placed in the woods by at least the 18th. After that KC would have had a very hard time moving it out of the trunk without having a huge mess. These are JMOO. I have been known to be wrong.

Boo, glad to see you and know that you are in my thoughts and prayers.
I won't be on much for the next week but will try to catch up reading late at night. I have company coming Tuesday and my house is a disaster area from sitting here 18 hours a day. Have a great weekend.

God Bless you Caylee and hold you safe forever in His Loving Arms.

Darla I agree with your timing after death.  It would have smelled very bad within two days especially with the heat.  Putrefaction has a predictable  process and very short timeline.  If she was placed in the first plastic bag shortly after death and that bag was not closed tightly within a few days the body would actually be bigger due to bloating that occurs and could have come out of the bag .  I do not think Casey understood how quickly the process occurs after death nor the different stages.  The second bag more than likely was used due to leakage and to try to stop the smell.  Nothing stops the smell or the fluids until the process is over.  I agree that the laundry bag was used as a carrying mechanism and as nothing more.  Within one week it would be pretty much impossible to move the body without a huge mess.  I also can not see her dealing with the pupea and flies later on in the process as within two days you would not be able to avoid them.

[Fanny Mae]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

I just don't see KC having all that much contact with a dead Caylee aside from stuffing her in a bag. It appears to me that the tape was placed on her before she was murdered.

WELCOME EYECARE!!

I am not buying Casey touching Caylee at all after death except to put her in her wrappings very gingerly. She may have already been laying on her Pooh blanket. The report only says they did not find drugs in her remains, but the things they would need to determine that were not there. Bone marrow, or soft tissues of the teeth. If Casey had given her a large dose of benedryl or even Xanax in a fatal dose it would not have shown up in the hair that they found.

I do belive that Caylee was murdered by the duct tape wrapped around her head several times. We don't know for sure if her hands were restrained because we do not know if they found more duct tape in the remains site.  I really feel that she did both, drugged her and restrained her and then put the duct tape on her. I think it happened in the car that night, and she got out of the car to talk on the cell phone while Caylee died so she wouldn't have to hear her if she struggled. Wrapping the Pooh blanket around her would have been easy if she was already on it, and sticking her in a garbage bag would be easier not to have to touch her. 

This murder was not an accident but rage, deliberately targeting the thing that she felt was taking her away from her newfound life. It was also a spiteful b*tch move against her mother. I too would like to see her fry. JMO

[leslee]

leslee, that is about what I'm thinking happened also. It all sort of fits.

Yeah, it would be interesting to examine those pings now that we know more of the story.

[Northern Rose]

I have a big favor to ask of you monkeys.  Could someone send me a link to be able to read the actual autopsy document as I only have a limited time to be on here for most of the day.  I actually have about 1 hour and then have errands to do.

Please!

http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801498/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801734/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801861/detail.html
http://www.wftv.com/pdf/19801867/detail.html

[Missiontoconvict]

Good Morning Monkeys - almost afternoon.  I agree with you Leslee and Darla on your points - I posted something similar a few pages back (pg 66).  I think the fight between KC and Sindy was an explosion in the making because I feel that KC and Caylee had not been home much at all during the month of June - I wonder if the 15th was the first time she had seen Caylee at all that month and that started the big fight along with something Sindy may have learned from Caylee. If we only knew where KC slept the night of the 15th - I think we all agree George lied about seeing both of them on the 16th.

[leslee]

Good Morning Monks!

This comment appeared on blinkoncrime.com, and I found it fascinating so I thought I would share. It really might be the impetus for the duct tape, at least initially. Is a tad clinical, I do apologize, but if you have ever seen a recently deceased individual, this is 100% true-

Posted by CB:

No chloroform, etc. found. No trauma. No obvious means of death. Had to be homocide, 3-yr old children do not just up and die w/o some detectable cause and too old for SIDS. Ergo, I think she drowned, how I don’t know, accident or accidently on purpose. The duct tape applied post mortem. Have you heard the term, positive “O” sign. Some medical people refer to it when the person is very near death or has just died–the jaw drops open. Nothing left to hold the mandible shut. In morgue kits there is a strap that is applied around the jaw to gently close it before rigor sets in. This “O” sign can be very pronounced and unsettling to see first hand. Casey probably wasn’t aware of this and was really spooked by this silent scream and used the duct tape then put a heart sticker on it as a ________ (fill in the blank). I’ve been lurking a long time and just cannot keep quiet any longer with my opinion, JMHO! Feel free to delete this as I’m the first to say it is gruesome and many won’t want to hear or know this nity-grity. Blink, I told you I would comment at some point when I had learned more. So…..this is it. CB “onionskin”

Blinks Response:

You know what CB/Onionskin? That is fascinating and I have never thought of that. You very well could be 100% correct, at least in the trigger for the duct tape in the first place. I honestly dont think there is anything more gruesome than what we already know.
B

Just throwing it out there, Maybe one of our Medical Monks (Northern Rose) can weigh in?

B

It would explain the multiple pieces of tape as holding the mouth together with a piece of tape would probably not hold the jaw up.  O or Q sign is when the jaw drops open.  There is only tissue holding the mandible in place.  The jaw moves on the mandibular condyle which is pretty much a big knuckle.  If a piece of tape were only placed horizontally across the lips chances are that it would not have stopped the jaw from dropping.  The tape would have more luck if it was paced vertically from under chin to nose.  The hinge point (mandibular condyle) for the jaw is just in front of your ear.  So to keep that in place the tape would have to go all the way across over the ears.  It is possible that she started with a small piece of tape across the lips not knowing that the hinge point was by the ear.  More tape was added until she got past the condyle where it would finally be effective.  This also explains why hair was in the duct tape.

Other issue with this is that right after death algor mortis sets in where the body immediately starts losing temperature.  It takes 2-6 hours for rigor to set in.  The tape theory to stop O or Q sign would only be possible if it was placed within 2 hours after death IMO.  If this is too graphic mods please delete.

This is extremely valuable info, Northern Rose.  Thanks for explaining it so clearly.

Could this also be an explanation if Caylee was screaming when the duct tape was applied? ( Sorry just trying to cover the bases).

[trimmonthelake]

Good Morning Monkeys and Guests! 
O/T
We made it through the night. Weather radio never went off, but this morning we had a couple of tomato bushes we had to restake, also a couple of Sunfowers, and all the petals that were on one rose bush that was blooming had been blown off. We've been outside all morning. 

Glad to see Boo in here.   

Glad you made it o.k.
I've been in and out all morning.
I'm glad Boo is here too. 

[Grandma2Maddie]

THANK YOU!

[Blink34]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

But your assuming they were open, and they are easy to close if not.

[N2WISHN]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

I just don't see KC having all that much contact with a dead Caylee aside from stuffing her in a bag. It appears to me that the tape was placed on her before she was murdered.

WELCOME EYECARE!!

I am not buying Casey touching Caylee at all after death except to put her in her wrappings very gingerly. She may have already been laying on her Pooh blanket. The report only says they did not find drugs in her remains, but the things they would need to determine that were not there. Bone marrow, or soft tissues of the teeth. If Casey had given her a large dose of benedryl or even Xanax in a fatal dose it would not have shown up in the hair that they found.

I do belive that Caylee was murdered by the duct tape wrapped around her head several times. We don't know for sure if her hands were restrained because we do not know if they found more duct tape in the remains site.  I really feel that she did both, drugged her and restrained her and then put the duct tape on her. I think it happened in the car that night, and she got out of the car to talk on the cell phone while Caylee died so she wouldn't have to hear her if she struggled. Wrapping the Pooh blanket around her would have been easy if she was already on it, and sticking her in a garbage bag would be easier not to have to touch her. 

This murder was not an accident but rage, deliberately targeting the thing that she felt was taking her away from her newfound life. It was also a spiteful b*tch move against her mother. I too would like to see her fry. JMO

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

[Northern Rose]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

That's another very good point. Could something have been put over her eyes, the pooh blanket, maybe?

If the blanket was used to cover her face then why muck around with tape?  JSM I firmly believe that the tape was placed before death as a spiteful, hateful, purposeful act. 

[Fanny Mae]

I have a big favor to ask of you monkeys.  Could someone send me a link to be able to read the actual autopsy document as I only have a limited time to be on here for most of the day.  I actually have about 1 hour and then have errands to do.

Please!

http://www.wftv.com/news/19802223/detail.html

[Missiontoconvict]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

I just don't see KC having all that much contact with a dead Caylee aside from stuffing her in a bag. It appears to me that the tape was placed on her before she was murdered.

WELCOME EYECARE!!

I am not buying Casey touching Caylee at all after death except to put her in her wrappings very gingerly. She may have already been laying on her Pooh blanket. The report only says they did not find drugs in her remains, but the things they would need to determine that were not there. Bone marrow, or soft tissues of the teeth. If Casey had given her a large dose of benedryl or even Xanax in a fatal dose it would not have shown up in the hair that they found.

I do belive that Caylee was murdered by the duct tape wrapped around her head several times. We don't know for sure if her hands were restrained because we do not know if they found more duct tape in the remains site.  I really feel that she did both, drugged her and restrained her and then put the duct tape on her. I think it happened in the car that night, and she got out of the car to talk on the cell phone while Caylee died so she wouldn't have to hear her if she struggled. Wrapping the Pooh blanket around her would have been easy if she was already on it, and sticking her in a garbage bag would be easier not to have to touch her. 

This murder was not an accident but rage, deliberately targeting the thing that she felt was taking her away from her newfound life. It was also a spiteful b*tch move against her mother. I too would like to see her fry. JMO

  Agree

[Fanny Mae]

leslee, that is about what I'm thinking happened also. It all sort of fits.

Yeah, it would be interesting to examine those pings now that we know more of the story.

I'll look for the spread sheet that I have. Maybe I can find it today with a fresher mind.

[Northern Rose]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

But your assuming they were open, and they are easy to close if not.

I am assuming they are open as most times they are.  I can not see her closing them. Even for medical professionals that have preformed that before mnay time, it is a very intimate moment to close the eyes, as a final act of respect to the person.

[N2WISHN]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

But your assuming they were open, and they are easy to close if not.

We are also assuming the mouth was open and as a first hand ******* of many deaths, I would say the open mouth was the exception rather than the rule