Caylee Marie Anthony #138 6/18/09 - 6/21/09

[cece]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

That's another very good point. Could something have been put over her eyes, the pooh blanket, maybe?

If the blanket was used to cover her face then why muck around with tape?  JSM I firmly believe that the tape was placed before death as a spiteful, hateful, purposeful act. 

That's what I was thinking too, Northern Rose. 

[monkalicious]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

But your assuming they were open, and they are easy to close if not.

I am assuming they are open as most times they are.  I can not see her closing them. Even for medical professionals that have preformed that before mnay time, it is a very intimate moment to close the eyes, as a final act of respect to the person.

What if Casey drugged Caylee...wouldn't the eyes be closed anyway, even during death?

[Northern Rose]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

That's another very good point. Could something have been put over her eyes, the pooh blanket, maybe?

If the blanket was used to cover her face then why muck around with tape?  JSM I firmly believe that the tape was placed before death as a spiteful, hateful, purposeful act. 

So sorry, I meant No Rose.  I thought that was Josef.   

[no rose colored glasses]

I am of the belief that the chloroform was used for cleaning purposes, I'm probably wrong, but I don't think if you are in that kind of rage, that you would go to the bother of drugging the victim.  Actually I think the fear and panic of having the mouth and nose duct taped, the perp doing that would probably get off on the panic of the victim. Having the victim drugged and unaware, would take the pleasure away from the perp doing such a heinous action.

[Missiontoconvict]

leslee, that is about what I'm thinking happened also. It all sort of fits.

Yeah, it would be interesting to examine those pings now that we know more of the story.

I'll look for the spread sheet that I have. Maybe I can find it today with a fresher mind.

Fanny here is one link that has her cell phone activity relative to active and inactive there is also a link to a ping map. I tried to read it last night but it gave me a headache.  There may be a better one out there somewhere.

[Missiontoconvict]

leslee, that is about what I'm thinking happened also. It all sort of fits.

Yeah, it would be interesting to examine those pings now that we know more of the story.

I'll look for the spread sheet that I have. Maybe I can find it today with a fresher mind.

Fanny here is one link that has her cell phone activity relative to active and inactive there is also a link to a ping map. I tried to read it last night but it gave me a headache.  There may be a better one out there somewhere.

Dah I forgot the link.......http://www.wftv.com/news/19179078/detail.html

[no rose colored glasses]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

That's another very good point. Could something have been put over her eyes, the pooh blanket, maybe?

If the blanket was used to cover her face then why muck around with tape?  JSM I firmly believe that the tape was placed before death as a spiteful, hateful, purposeful act. 

So sorry, I meant No Rose.  I thought that was Josef.   

I was just throwing the blanket out there, because of what you said about the eyes. But again, with the rage, Casey probably would have wanted to see the fear in Caylee's eyes when she was doing this to her.

[Fanny Mae]

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

She would have struggled viciously though to stay alive and not allow the duct tape to be placed over her mouth and nose. She would have been flailing, kicking and fighting for her life. It is human instict to do that, and if you have ever tried to restrain a 2 1/2 Yr old in a full blow tantrum, it would be obvious that Casey would have at least had bruises on her arms. In the pics for Fusions on the 20th, she had on a sleeveless dress, and no signs on her arms. I did wonder though, why she would wear black knee high boots in the middle of the summer, and wondered if she might have had some scratches and bruises on her legs.

[cece]

Links to light a candle for Caylee:

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=CMA

http://www.gratefulness.org/candles/candles.cfm?l=eng&gi=cayle

    

[Fanny Mae]

leslee, that is about what I'm thinking happened also. It all sort of fits.

Yeah, it would be interesting to examine those pings now that we know more of the story.

I'll look for the spread sheet that I have. Maybe I can find it today with a fresher mind.

Fanny here is one link that has her cell phone activity relative to active and inactive there is also a link to a ping map. I tried to read it last night but it gave me a headache.  There may be a better one out there somewhere.

Dah I forgot the link.......http://www.wftv.com/news/19179078/detail.html

 Thanks, but no, I have seen this one, and it is not the one I am talking about. I will keep looking in my files. Also, the one posted last night was so confusing that I just never could make heads or tail of it.

[Northern Rose]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

But your assuming they were open, and they are easy to close if not.

I am assuming they are open as most times they are.  I can not see her closing them. Even for medical professionals that have preformed that before many time, it is a very intimate moment to close the eyes, as a final act of respect to the person.

What if Casey drugged Caylee...wouldn't the eyes be closed anyway, even during death?

It depends.  Your eyes can open or remain shut depending on how firmly shut they were at time of death.  As muscle tone is lost and the decomp begins the lids retract where you can see some of the eye.  The more time that passes the wider open they are.  If Casey was there immediately upon death ie.  watching her, then they may have been closed.  That would make Casey even more calculating.

[trimmonthelake]

Blink that was an interesting comment you posted from your site. That would make a lot of sense. But the question, which I'm sure we will probably never know is how exactly Caylee died. I thought perhaps she duct taped her and she died that way, but people are right without the hands tied it would have been very difficult. So I guess maybe she smothered Caylee, and then did what she did with the duct tape.

NoRose,You're right.We may never know,but I just can't get past the duct tape,no matter when it was placed on Caylee's face.   

I'm with you Trimm.  I can't get past the duct tape either.

Could her wrists have been bound first with tape?  Wasn't there tape recovered at the crime scene?  And some of the little hand bones missing?  (Just still questioning)

I think so.Casey is a monster no matter how you lay this out.

[no rose colored glasses]

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

She would have struggled viciously though to stay alive and not allow the duct tape to be placed over her mouth and nose. She would have been flailing, kicking and fighting for her life. It is human instict to do that, and if you have ever tried to restrain a 2 1/2 Yr old in a full blow tantrum, it would be obvious that Casey would have at least had bruises on her arms. In the pics for Fusions on the 20th, she had on a sleeveless dress, and no signs on her arms. I did wonder though, why she would wear black knee high boots in the middle of the summer, and wondered if she might have had some scratches and bruises on her legs.

Nothing to back this up, but I have a feeling at least the hands were restrained, feet could have been also, I don't remember if there was more duct tape found at the scene?

[N2WISHN]

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

She would have struggled viciously though to stay alive and not allow the duct tape to be placed over her mouth and nose. She would have been flailing, kicking and fighting for her life. It is human instict to do that, and if you have ever tried to restrain a 2 1/2 Yr old in a full blow tantrum, it would be obvious that Casey would have at least had bruises on her arms. In the pics for Fusions on the 20th, she had on a sleeveless dress, and no signs on her arms. I did wonder though, why she would wear black knee high boots in the middle of the summer, and wondered if she might have had some scratches and bruises on her legs.

I can't speak from first hand experience on trying to kill a 2 year old with duct tape, but having raised 3 sons to adulthood I have wrestled with many a tantrum and I won. Not trying to force my opinion on you or anything but I'm of the opinion that a 2 year old could be subdued by an adult.

[no rose colored glasses]

Blink that was an interesting comment you posted from your site. That would make a lot of sense. But the question, which I'm sure we will probably never know is how exactly Caylee died. I thought perhaps she duct taped her and she died that way, but people are right without the hands tied it would have been very difficult. So I guess maybe she smothered Caylee, and then did what she did with the duct tape.

NoRose,You're right.We may never know,but I just can't get past the duct tape,no matter when it was placed on Caylee's face.   

I'm with you Trimm.  I can't get past the duct tape either.

Could her wrists have been bound first with tape?  Wasn't there tape recovered at the crime scene?  And some of the little hand bones missing?  (Just still questioning)

I think so.Casey is a monster no matter how you lay this out.

Okay so there was some tape found at the scene, so it could be very likely that she could have bound her hands. No doubt Casey is a monster, and it is not a stretch for me to believe she enjoyed every minute of the torture she put that little one through. I have no doubt in my mind. She probably revisits that in her mind quite often.

[cece]

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

She would have struggled viciously though to stay alive and not allow the duct tape to be placed over her mouth and nose. She would have been flailing, kicking and fighting for her life. It is human instict to do that, and if you have ever tried to restrain a 2 1/2 Yr old in a full blow tantrum, it would be obvious that Casey would have at least had bruises on her arms. In the pics for Fusions on the 20th, she had on a sleeveless dress, and no signs on her arms. I did wonder though, why she would wear black knee high boots in the middle of the summer, and wondered if she might have had some scratches and bruises on her legs.

Nothing to back this up, but I have a feeling at least the hands were restrained, feet could have been also, I don't remember if there was more duct tape found at the scene?

tape found at crime scene:

http://www.crimesceneblog.com/Blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/duct-tape-found-at-crime-scene.jpg

[Northern Rose]

Blink that was an interesting comment you posted from your site. That would make a lot of sense. But the question, which I'm sure we will probably never know is how exactly Caylee died. I thought perhaps she duct taped her and she died that way, but people are right without the hands tied it would have been very difficult. So I guess maybe she smothered Caylee, and then did what she did with the duct tape.

NoRose,You're right.We may never know,but I just can't get past the duct tape,no matter when it was placed on Caylee's face.   

I'm with you Trimm.  I can't get past the duct tape either.

Could her wrists have been bound first with tape?  Wasn't there tape recovered at the crime scene?  And some of the little hand bones missing?  (Just still questioning)

I think so.Casey is a monster no matter how you lay this out.

Okay so there was some tape found at the scene, so it could be very likely that she could have bound her hands. No doubt Casey is a monster, and it is not a stretch for me to believe she enjoyed every minute of the torture she put that little one through. I have no doubt in my mind. She probably revisits that in her mind quite often.

I hope she does but would not be surprised if she has created a alternate story in her mind like she has so many times before , like her tumor.

[no rose colored glasses]

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

She would have struggled viciously though to stay alive and not allow the duct tape to be placed over her mouth and nose. She would have been flailing, kicking and fighting for her life. It is human instict to do that, and if you have ever tried to restrain a 2 1/2 Yr old in a full blow tantrum, it would be obvious that Casey would have at least had bruises on her arms. In the pics for Fusions on the 20th, she had on a sleeveless dress, and no signs on her arms. I did wonder though, why she would wear black knee high boots in the middle of the summer, and wondered if she might have had some scratches and bruises on her legs.

I can't speak from first hand experience on trying to kill a 2 year old with duct tape, but having raised 3 sons to adulthood I have wrestled with many a tantrum and I won. Not trying to force my opinion on you or anything but I'm of the opinion that a 2 year old could be subdued by an adult.

I see what you are saying, and Caylee was similar in size of my oldest daughter, and I would have had no trouble subdueing her. Now with my youngest daughter I would have, she was quite a handful. I didn't picture Caylee to be that kind of a handful, I think she was more on the delicate side, and easier to subdue. But then again, when a person's life, whether young or old is in danger, you become much more powerful and fight to survive.

[no rose colored glasses]

Thank-you cece for that picture, for some reason it looked more cloth like to me.   

[Northern Rose]

I am of the belief that the chloroform was used for cleaning purposes, I'm probably wrong, but I don't think if you are in that kind of rage, that you would go to the bother of drugging the victim.  Actually I think the fear and panic of having the mouth and nose duct taped, the perp doing that would probably get off on the panic of the victim. Having the victim drugged and unaware, would take the pleasure away from the perp doing such a heinous action.

Does anyone know if the tap water in that area is chlorinated?