Caylee Marie Anthony #138 6/18/09 - 6/21/09

[TURBOTHINK]

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

She would have struggled viciously though to stay alive and not allow the duct tape to be placed over her mouth and nose. She would have been flailing, kicking and fighting for her life. It is human instict to do that, and if you have ever tried to restrain a 2 1/2 Yr old in a full blow tantrum, it would be obvious that Casey would have at least had bruises on her arms. In the pics for Fusions on the 20th, she had on a sleeveless dress, and no signs on her arms. I did wonder though, why she would wear black knee high boots in the middle of the summer, and wondered if she might have had some scratches and bruises on her legs.

Nothing to back this up, but I have a feeling at least the hands were restrained, feet could have been also, I don't remember if there was more duct tape found at the scene?

I think they were too. Remember they found the duct tape in the car which was Amys from that party she was trying to get back from KC? Cindy tried to make a big deal out of "AMY" having the duct tape even BEFORE the body was found with duct tape on it. I have always been suspicious of her remark about it.

[trimmonthelake]

Geraldo will be discussing the autopsy report Sunday night.IIRC. 

You all will have to tell me what he says because I cannot watch that moron for even a minute without screaming at him.

Me either, I get sick just looking at him 

I don't like to look at him either.Ill just throw a comforter over my face and listen.  I can imagine what chit he'll be spewing.

[leslee]

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

She would have struggled viciously though to stay alive and not allow the duct tape to be placed over her mouth and nose. She would have been flailing, kicking and fighting for her life. It is human instict to do that, and if you have ever tried to restrain a 2 1/2 Yr old in a full blow tantrum, it would be obvious that Casey would have at least had bruises on her arms. In the pics for Fusions on the 20th, she had on a sleeveless dress, and no signs on her arms. I did wonder though, why she would wear black knee high boots in the middle of the summer, and wondered if she might have had some scratches and bruises on her legs.

Nothing to back this up, but I have a feeling at least the hands were restrained, feet could have been also, I don't remember if there was more duct tape found at the scene?

I think they were too. Remember they found the duct tape in the car which was Amys from that party she was trying to get back from KC? Cindy tried to make a big deal out of "AMY" having the duct tape even BEFORE the body was found with duct tape on it. I have always been suspicious of her remark about it.

In the autopsy report is does mention a light colored material that was sent for further testing found on the right humerous (?) and scapula(?)

[trimmonthelake]

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

She would have struggled viciously though to stay alive and not allow the duct tape to be placed over her mouth and nose. She would have been flailing, kicking and fighting for her life. It is human instict to do that, and if you have ever tried to restrain a 2 1/2 Yr old in a full blow tantrum, it would be obvious that Casey would have at least had bruises on her arms. In the pics for Fusions on the 20th, she had on a sleeveless dress, and no signs on her arms. I did wonder though, why she would wear black knee high boots in the middle of the summer, and wondered if she might have had some scratches and bruises on her legs.

Nothing to back this up, but I have a feeling at least the hands were restrained, feet could have been also, I don't remember if there was more duct tape found at the scene?

I think they were too. Remember they found the duct tape in the car which was Amys from that party she was trying to get back from KC? Cindy tried to make a big deal out of "AMY" having the duct tape even BEFORE the body was found with duct tape on it. I have always been suspicious of her remark about it.

I remember that.

[Ono]

I am of the belief that the chloroform was used for cleaning purposes, I'm probably wrong, but I don't think if you are in that kind of rage, that you would go to the bother of drugging the victim.  Actually I think the fear and panic of having the mouth and nose duct taped, the perp doing that would probably get off on the panic of the victim. Having the victim drugged and unaware, would take the pleasure away from the perp doing such a heinous action.

Does anyone know if the tap water in that area is chlorinated?

Good question....I have no clue but if it is city water I think all city water is chlorinated and if Kronk is a meter reader was he reading water meters?  Then I would think yes it is.

That is a good question, I don't even know if the water where I live is chlorinated or not 

My question about chlorinated tap water is hard to explain but I will try as it has been there since the chloroform was detected in the trunk.  Everywhere around us you see ANTIBACTERIAL products.  They have become so common place that it is hard to pick up any cleaning product, baby toy, personal hygiene product such as toothpaste or deodorant without seeing it labeled as antibacterial.  There are only two ingredients that make something antibaterial - alcohol or a chemical called triclosan.  Alcohol is reserved for some instant hand sanitizers.  Almost all manufacturers of antibacterial products use triclosan.  Triclosan is a evil evil chemical that should not be in consumer products.  It was first used in clinical settings such as hospitals for sterilization.  Somehow it has made its way into consumer products and is being added even more every year.  When I say it is an evil chemical I am not kidding,  it is two molecules different from agent orange.  There has been much research conducted about the long terms effects of antibacterial products.  What has been proven, and repeatedly proven is that no one knows the half life of triclosan, and when chlorinated tap water is mixed with it it creates chloroform.  Because there are no guidelines on the acceptable limit of Triclosan in consumer products ( also can appear on labels as Irgasan, 2,4,4’-trichloros-2’-hydroxydiphenyl ether, Microban - when used in plastics and clothing- IrgasanDP-300, Lexol 300, Ster-Zac, Cloxifenolum, Biofresh when used in acrylic fibers) some products have obscenely high levels of it in them.  I need to add here that it does not dissolved in water (so if you use antibacterial soap the chemical residue stays on your skin) and when sun hits it it creates dioxins (so think twice about buying anything that says antibacterial, or labled as biofresh or contains microban. Dolce if you are reading this promise me you will keep your babies away from Playskool toys as triclosan is added to the plastic in their manufacturing process and babies like to put their toys in their mouths).

We know Cindy was a neat freak.  We know there were cleaning products found in the trunk of the car.  If cleaning they were antibacterial products used to try to clean  the trunk   and were mixed with chlorinated tap water at any point, the chemical reaction would have immediately formed chloroform.  Close trunk and it gets trapped.  Chemical has no known half life nor does water dissolve it so would have kept reacting with the water to create chloroform until water had all evaporated.  If the defense uses this we know they are reading here. 

Northen Rose:   Thanks so much for all of your expertise !   

[TURBOTHINK]

Fanny I too have wondered if the duct tape was applied to stop decomp fluids. But according to the ME report it says that
"the duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place" The toxicology accompianed w/ autopsy says no chloroform or other volatiles were detected, nor OTC medicines.

Don't forget KC looked up "neck breaking" on the computer prior to the murder. She could have broken Caylee's neck and then duct taped her face in an act of defiance to Cindy. Or she could have "tried" to break her neck without success the first lick and Caylee was screaming so hard, she just taped her right up.

[joesamas mama]

Thinking about tape to stop O or Q sign has raised a new question in my mind.  If in fact the tape was used as Casey found it too disturbing to see, why did she not do something to cover Caylee's eyes as well?  The eyes immediately change and would be more pronounced and haunting then O sign to anyone that has not seen them before.

That's another very good point. Could something have been put over her eyes, the pooh blanket, maybe?

If the blanket was used to cover her face then why muck around with tape?  JSM I firmly believe that the tape was placed before death as a spiteful, hateful, purposeful act. 

So sorry, I meant No Rose.  I thought that was Josef.   

        

[Fanny Mae]

Fanny I too have wondered if the duct tape was applied to stop decomp fluids. But according to the ME report it says that
"the duct tape was clearly placed prior to decomposition, keeping the mandible in place" The toxicology accompianed w/ autopsy says no chloroform or other volatiles were detected, nor OTC medicines.

I think that was Flossy that was wondering about the duct tape being applied after death. I am the one thinking that the duct tape WAS the method of death.   

[Fanny Mae]

Yes, she could have been bound and drugged but IMO just the duct tape covering her mouth and possibly her nose would have been more than enough to do the job on a helpless child.

She would have struggled viciously though to stay alive and not allow the duct tape to be placed over her mouth and nose. She would have been flailing, kicking and fighting for her life. It is human instict to do that, and if you have ever tried to restrain a 2 1/2 Yr old in a full blow tantrum, it would be obvious that Casey would have at least had bruises on her arms. In the pics for Fusions on the 20th, she had on a sleeveless dress, and no signs on her arms. I did wonder though, why she would wear black knee high boots in the middle of the summer, and wondered if she might have had some scratches and bruises on her legs.

Nothing to back this up, but I have a feeling at least the hands were restrained, feet could have been also, I don't remember if there was more duct tape found at the scene?

I think they were too. Remember they found the duct tape in the car which was Amys from that party she was trying to get back from KC? Cindy tried to make a big deal out of "AMY" having the duct tape even BEFORE the body was found with duct tape on it. I have always been suspicious of her remark about it.

In the autopsy report is does mention a light colored material that was sent for further testing found on the right humerous (?) and scapula(?)

That would be on the upper arm and shoulder.

[Blink34]

There was a picture in January or late December of the type of laundry bag. A Whitney something tote. Same type was taken from the ANT house.
Nothing has ties to anyone else. That house, Casey, Cindy, George all lived in the house, but what would the motive have been for anyone else but Casey. In case Baez was going to throw one of them under the bus. 

Here is the picture of the type and brand.

The  report indicated that the laundry bag was still cinched closed.  How do you cinch this?  It appears that the metal wire in the top ring is meant to keep it open.  The report also indicated that the wire was still there .  Was it a foreign object that she used to cinch it?

see this is my problem as well. On the target site, this is actually some sort of recyclable thingie. (sorry, remote, cant research the link). How do we know the source of how this definately is "the Bag"?
B

[joesamas mama]

Turbo, if you are still here can you please tell me if this is plausible theory?

What bearly said about the O and the Q had me wondering, what if Caylee threw her in the pool with no floaties or lifejacket and the baby struggled for dear life. Would that not have made Caylee scream and have the O sign or whatever it is called and KC then taped her mouth shut. Didn't they find the duct tape in the shed outside? I may be wrong about that.

So if the duct tape was in the shed, she would have had to get her out of the pool, lay her down on the ground where the dogs caught decomp scent, then duct taped her head. Turbo said decomp starts within minutes of death. So it would take time for her to dry her off, find the duct tape, then wrap it around as much as she did. Maybe that is why the dogs hit on the spot in the backyard. Just a thought.

This is copied from two posts between No Rose and JSM.

TIA JSM

Back to lurking now.

[trimmonthelake]

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2009/6/19/will_caylee39s_autopsy_report_be_released.html
 Caylee’s Autopsy Released After Judge Denies Block
Saturday, June 20, 2009 9:23:04 AM

<snipped>
The results show by the time Caylee’s remains were found, they were skeletonized, which prevented medical examiners from determining a cause of death.

The results also said there was a piece of duct tape placed over Caylee’s mouth and that cloth letters spelling out the words “big trouble comes small” were found near the remains.

"There was very little to work with. It was very thorough but it doesn't answer any question. What it does do is leave speculation open," Conway said.

The Anthonys were visibly upset when leaving the courthouse.

Casey’s lawyer, Jose Baez, was also concerned. While Casey sits in jail, more and more information about her daughter’s disappearance is coming out.

Baez is worried that all the newly released information may be hurting his chances to properly defend his client.

"We believe that the results of any documents to the potential jury pool could be damaging," Baez said.

[Mtnmom]

There was a picture in January or late December of the type of laundry bag. A Whitney something tote. Same type was taken from the ANT house.
Nothing has ties to anyone else. That house, Casey, Cindy, George all lived in the house, but what would the motive have been for anyone else but Casey. In case Baez was going to throw one of them under the bus. 

Here is the picture of the type and brand.

The  report indicated that the laundry bag was still cinched closed.  How do you cinch this?  It appears that the metal wire in the top ring is meant to keep it open.  The report also indicated that the wire was still there .  Was it a foreign object that she used to cinch it?

see this is my problem as well. On the target site, this is actually some sort of recyclable thingie. (sorry, remote, cant research the link). How do we know the source of how this definately is "the Bag"?
B

i thought they said in the report the laundry bag had a circular ring which helped to hold it open and it was visible in the exrays. the maker and brandline was the same as this one shown only I think the style was different.

[Fanny Mae]

There was a picture in January or late December of the type of laundry bag. A Whitney something tote. Same type was taken from the ANT house.
Nothing has ties to anyone else. That house, Casey, Cindy, George all lived in the house, but what would the motive have been for anyone else but Casey. In case Baez was going to throw one of them under the bus. 

Here is the picture of the type and brand.

The  report indicated that the laundry bag was still cinched closed.  How do you cinch this?  It appears that the metal wire in the top ring is meant to keep it open.  The report also indicated that the wire was still there .  Was it a foreign object that she used to cinch it?

see this is my problem as well. On the target site, this is actually some sort of recyclable thingie. (sorry, remote, cant research the link). How do we know the source of how this definately is "the Bag"?
B

In a doc dump there was a picture of the Whitley bag taken from the Anthony's home with the search warrant, and it looked just like that. I believe the report said the bag found with the remains was similar.

[Ono]

Okay, monkeys.  Now we KNOW what the deal is with Kinney-Baden.

Laura Kenny-Baden and Dr. Michael Baden were on FOX tonight announcing their new book: Skeleton Justice. 

Yep! They have a new book out NOW. 

Sooooo.....the free lawyering is not about any future deals....no...they have a new book out now. 

Geez, at this rate they should have several more books out before the trail.

Oh...and she said to expect the trial around June next year!

For those who haven't seen it, I'm bumping this post from early in this morning.

O boy I nailed that Sunny...our cruise will be timed perfectly...hehehe  YUP I say trial start within  June-August 2010, they will want to give time that it may conclude in time for the holidays.

PS I guess this is a warning LOL   I heard an ad on Foxnews cable that Whoraldo will have a segment about the autopsy release on his show, it said Sunday.

Thanks for the warning !!   No doubt Baez will be on as well ...

[pinballwzrd]

[always 1]

Crud, I am having trouble with the quote thingy.  Will someone pls erase that!  TIA. Hi Flossy, miiss you.

[Fanny Mae]

There was a picture in January or late December of the type of laundry bag. A Whitney something tote. Same type was taken from the ANT house.
Nothing has ties to anyone else. That house, Casey, Cindy, George all lived in the house, but what would the motive have been for anyone else but Casey. In case Baez was going to throw one of them under the bus. 

Here is the picture of the type and brand.

The  report indicated that the laundry bag was still cinched closed.  How do you cinch this?  It appears that the metal wire in the top ring is meant to keep it open.  The report also indicated that the wire was still there .  Was it a foreign object that she used to cinch it?

see this is my problem as well. On the target site, this is actually some sort of recyclable thingie. (sorry, remote, cant research the link). How do we know the source of how this definately is "the Bag"?
B

i thought they said in the report the laundry bag had a circular ring which helped to hold it open and it was visible in the exrays. the maker and brandline was the same as this one shown only I think the style was different.

The one we saw in the doc dump had a patterned or printed design on the outside. I am thinking along the lines of a calico print in white over beige. I think the design is similar, but I don't think it was solid color like that. The ones in the picture may be a more updated version. When I looked it up on the Whitley site right after the doc dump, it looked like you could buy them in sets, and one of them did have a round opening. JMO

[leslee]

There was a picture in January or late December of the type of laundry bag. A Whitney something tote. Same type was taken from the ANT house.
Nothing has ties to anyone else. That house, Casey, Cindy, George all lived in the house, but what would the motive have been for anyone else but Casey. In case Baez was going to throw one of them under the bus. 

Here is the picture of the type and brand.

The  report indicated that the laundry bag was still cinched closed.  How do you cinch this?  It appears that the metal wire in the top ring is meant to keep it open.  The report also indicated that the wire was still there .  Was it a foreign object that she used to cinch it?

see this is my problem as well. On the target site, this is actually some sort of recyclable thingie. (sorry, remote, cant research the link). How do we know the source of how this definately is "the Bag"?
B

i thought they said in the report the laundry bag had a circular ring which helped to hold it open and it was visible in the exrays. the maker and brandline was the same as this one shown only I think the style was different.

It did say that MTmom... these laundry bag pics are rectangular not circular... does it look like this
http://www.amazon.com/Whitney-Design-Storage-Container-Natural/dp/B0007CXQQQ/ref=pd_sbs_k_17

[Ono]

Geraldo will be discussing the autopsy report Sunday night.IIRC. 

You all will have to tell me what he says because I cannot watch that moron for even a minute without screaming at him.

Me either, I get sick just looking at him 

So do I ... He insults everyone's intelligence;  His half-brother is cute though ..