Caylee Marie Anthony #138 6/18/09 - 6/21/09

[Fanny Mae]

Hey, LuvLeBron, missed seeing you.  Your mom is a doll.  Just remember, you lcan love a Cleveland team, but they're going to break your heart every time.

Hey Monkalicious! Missed seeing you as well.  I've been hiding under a rock bc of the Cavs.....
And no matter what anyone says, I will be a Cleveland fan no matter what!  One of these days, one of these years, a championship will come.  BUT, my mom says the same exact thing as you! She was born and raised near Cleveland and has been a fan her whole life.  And she keeps saying, "Emily, Cleveland fans always say maybe next year".  I think she's grown bitter from all the heartache!

But I'll keep my faith...and besides, we might be getting Shaq!

We used to go to spring training games in Winter Haven when we lived down there. I have an autographed baseball on my mantle...
Now I am running from the O/T ban button.........

OMG whose autograph Fanny?

A bunch of the spring training guys that scribbled their names on it and I am not even sure any of them are even still playing. But we went to several games. We are actually Atlanta Braves fans, but we cheered for the Indians when we went to their games. 

[joesamas mama]

Sorry again for Off topic, please don't ban me.

BUT my Yahoo keeps telling me to updated to Internet Explorer 8. I know there was a time when the monkeys were saying don't update to something. So, should I do it or not? I know this is off topic, please send me to the thread where I need to ask this questions.

TIA JSM 

DON'T DO IT!!! It took me a week (and Klass) to figure out what the heck was going on!

Thanks boyzmom. I remember there was a big problem with it. I won't do it. THANKS AGAIN SO VERY VERY MUCH. 

JSM

DITTO that.  Do not do it, you will be sorry...I was and went back to IE7

Thank you Klaas. JSM 

[Ono]

I wonder if Brad Conway secretly regrets taking this case yet ... ??

I think he must have conteplated that many times in the wee hours of the morning as he stares down into the ice floating in his drink. 

    No doubt.

[Desdemona]

<snipped by Desi>The laundry bag was not cinched.  The report states that there were two trash bags, one cinched and one open.  It even describes how the handles were tied.
Has everyone seen a pic of this laundry bag? When I had, it changed my thoughts entirely. It looks more like a small suitcase type container with metal boning at the top belong the carry handles?
<snip>
Someone said the hyoid bone was not recovered, but I thought the report stated that it was... Anyway, an intact hyoid bone in a child does not rule out strangulation... though I don't believe Caylee was strangled.  Possible, though... a spiteful b*tch thing, after being throttled herself by her own mother, maybe?
I do not believe the hyoid bone was recovered unless I missed it, if it were found intact, in a child that small I do feel strangulation would have been highly unlikely, however, I concur I dont think Caylee was strangled.
<snip>
From memory, I believe LE confiscated some Huggies Swimmers from the closet or drawer(?) in the computer room.  ICBW.
<snip>I think Casey already had the laundry bag in her trunk or at Tony's, and either used it for convenience on disposal day, or used it to hide Caylee's bagged body in the bottom of the laundry bag, covering her with dirty clothes as camouflage.  George stated that when the trunk was opened at the towyard, he saw "clothes" in there.  He also said IIRC in one of his versions of gas can day (or maybe Cindy said this) that he saw clothes in the trunk before Casey slammed it shut.
I dont think George ever got near the back of the trunk in his alleged visit from her 6/24, remember the here's your effin gas cans?
<snip>
What if Casey used Lee's house... what if there is a freezer at Lee's house... cell phone pings would probably mimic those at the A's house, maybe?  I always thought it was so odd for Casey to have a bag of freezer food from home when she abandoned the car that day.  The "make room for a body in the freezer" theory is outlandish, but within the realm of the possible for sure, IMO.
Lee's house was .25 mi from the Anthonys, yes, pings would include his house and fall under the + or - ratio of their reliability.
<snip>
P.S.  Loved Morgan's awesome motion!
Back off my man, you and SunnyTX are gonna get it (teehee)

Awesome thoughts and Questions Desi- Hope you can get back soon, Blink in Red.
B

Sheesh!  Scooped by everybody, I see!      Oh well, anyway...

Hi Monkeys!

Re type of Laundry bag:  I read a post elsewhere, that claimed the product number on the tag of the laundry bag Caylee's remains were in (Item #2516) is that of a circular, tall laundry bag.  I did not accept that at face value, because a b/w evidence photo in one of the doc dumps -- either a pic of the bag found unused on a shelf in the A's garage, or a stock photo of that particular design -- showed a roughly rectangular or oval-ish, more shallow laundry bag.  Two different kinds of bag, although it is in evidence that both bags, A's garage and remains site, are the same brand: "Whitney Design."  Whether they were identical in shape/style is the question.

Now that the autopsy report referred to the laundry bag recovered with Caylee's remains as "CYLINDRICAL," I looked again at the evidence photo from the site to try to ascertain what original shape it appears to have been -- and am leaning somewhat towards the tall cylindrical one.  (compare pics below)   
---------------------
Re Hyoid Bone:  My most humble apologies, and thank you Blink for correcting me before I went off on a dead-end on this.  I read a post incorrectly here at SM.  I'll blame it on the painfully distracting emotions d/t the subject matter, and assume other similarly disturbed Monks will understand.  Correction:  Caylee's hyoid bone was NOT recovered.
---------------------
Re Swimmer pull-ups:  I'm almost positive, but too worn out to go looking for the list of evidence LE obtained via search warrant in December;thought a few Swimmies were found somewhere in the computer room or in a closet... Anyone remember this or know where to find it?
---------------------
Re What George saw in trunk on gas can day:  There are several different versions George has told.  Who touched the trunk?  Could he see into the trunk at all, a little, or all of it?  What happened, what was said,  how did he recover the gas cans?  His various conflicting details give differing answers to these questions.  Very "hinky" IMO, b/c as we say, "The truth doesn't change."
---------------------
Re cell towers, proximity of Lee's house:  Thank you for the very helpful info!
---------------------
Re My Man Morgan... er.. heheheh oops, I mean YOUR Man Morgan (--whew! close one), yeah he's got it going on fo sho!  He's a Caylee hero so we can all love him in our own no worries Blink kinda way, right?  Right? *nervous laugh*
[P.S.  Can I still love his "motion?"  tee hee]

[Fanny Mae]

Anyone else feel like they need glasses after reading pdf documents? I hate pdfs. My puter hates them and my eyes hate them.

mine won't let me open them...every time i try its says open pdf doc into media player, and i say ok, and them it sends them to the media player and then they're somewhere?  in my hard drive.  to bad i can't find them
 Hello Monkeys!

Did you get my post to you yesterday to go to Adobe.com and download a free reader?

miss Mae, i did..but puter is hubbys baby and i can't mess with it if he's not here.  i need to take a class or something.  a while back i did ??? and we got like 28 trojens on it.  hubby did his magic and cleaned the hard drive and took the thing apart and did ????don't ask me.  honestly, i've had more edu. than he does put he can take a puter, x box, ps, what ever apart and fix it like new.  he works from 10-2:30 and then back 4:30 to 10:30  so i got a lot of time on my hands.  babycrazy just wants to do her art..or play..some would call me lucky 'cause babycrazy wants to do her own thing, but i like to be with people...guess thats why i'm here.  sorry..
   

Well, when he gets home, give him a big hug and a kiss and tell him he needs to install an Adobe reader on your computer or you will go on strike. He will do it. Trust me!

[mamacrazy30]

monk = mama

hey, sometimes i'm Monkeycrazy too...its all good in tha' (monkey)hood. 

[Ono]

http://www.whitney-design.com/laundry.aspx?node=Laundry%20Care

Neat link ...  [ No doubt Cindy's house was a storage extravaganza ] ... 

Whitney's rounds hampers fit the description in the autopsy report, it seems to me.

[Bearlyhere]

One more off topic post before I am banned.

Please go to the prayer thread and read what Boo posted about her dad. It is heart wrenching and very informative.

TIA JSM

nice knowing you monkeys now that I have been banned for O/T

Since you are asking for it, I have decided to give you just what you deserve:






   

You must use a lot of that stuff, do you need us to take up a collection?



I have set up a thread just for such emergencies when you feel the need for a ban coming on.

http://scaredmonkeys.net/index.php?topic=5458.msg847566#msg847566

[Fanny Mae]

http://www.whitney-design.com/laundry.aspx?node=Laundry%20Care

Neat link ...  [ No doubt Cindy's house was a storage extravaganza ] ... 

Whitney's rounds hampers fit the description in the autopsy report, it seems to me.

I thought I had every storage container known to mankind, but I swear I have never had any of those.   

[Bearlyhere]

Anyone else feel like they need glasses after reading pdf documents? I hate pdfs. My puter hates them and my eyes hate them.

Why don't you just enlarge them with the size button?

[Ono]

So now I'm mixed up is the laundry hamper, the circular one, or the one that is rectangular with handles? The rectangular one would be easier to carry, I would think 

Good evening monkeys -- I have been lurking are reading all of your great observations from the documents released yesterday.  I thought I would post the slideshow that has in pic 6 the Witney bag found at the remains site and the one found in the Athony home pic 14 --

Go here and select the slideshow where the heart sticker is located. 
http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Sidebar/2009/2/18/caylee_photos_page_10.html?refresh=1

good find there.

Here's the image of the bag found at the scene:

The Whitney at the scene is one of the circular ones ... I think Cindy must have had many different Whitneys ...  I'm thinking the one OCSO removed from the residence was for comparison of workmanship, etc.

They look like great bags -- I may get one ! lol

[mamacrazy30]

LOL! mama = monk.

The quote stack confused me. ::hangs head in shame::
I blame it on the pdf documents and the eye strain...yeah that is it.

That and not being able to edit because I am an idiot.

pinkeypie angel...(i like to make nicknames)

my mom is blind in one eye as well, and Really, not making a joke;  she cannot see out of the other.  she was born 3 mths premature and it effected her eyesight.  her glasses are about 1/2 inch thick now, but i remember back in the day (before the light-weight plastic lenses) they were about 3 inches thick.  she went to a op (or is it ot?lol?  the eye doctor)  for lasic at one time and the said NO!!  the fact that she only had limited vision from one eye put her out of the game.  she now has 1 contact she puts in...and i worry about her doing that 
                                             WARNING!!!!

so very off topic...sorry

[Fanny Mae]

DESI, I hope you are feeling better. Are you going to hang with us for a while?   

[SunnyinTX]

Hi Monkeys --

Crazy life events have kept me from posting.  All caught up, after watching vid of the hearing and reading autopsy report.

The laundry bag was not cinched.  The report states that there were two trash bags, one cinched and one open.  It even describes how the handles were tied.

Has everyone seen a pic of this laundry bag? When I had, it changed my thoughts entirely. It looks more like a small suitcase type container with metal boning at the top belong the carry handles?
The pink shirt said "Big Trouble Comes in Small Packages."  Picture below.

IMO a conscious toddler's lower face could not be bound in that manner unless the child's hands were bound.  I don't think we have any good evidence of that yet.  Even with hands bound, the child would squirm and be frightened -- it would not be easy.  Placing duct tape in that manner would be easier if the child were unconscious or already deceased.

I actually logged on this morning because this was gnawing at me all last evening. I completely agree with Desi on this. I have always said I believed the duct tape was applied post mortem, but a poster on the blinksite brought up the "O" theory, for which I believe may very well have been Casey's compulsion to apply the duct tape in the first place. If you can fathom it, the duct tape application if viewed in that sense, is Casey's way of "fixing her" and "I'm sorry" with the heart sticker. Either way, absent any evidence of Caylee's own little hands attempting to remove the tape and any signs of her extremeties being tied, I think we should assume this was applied post mortem, imo, and as usual Desi had a stellar example.  

If Leslee is correct that the purple elastic band is from an overnight pull-up, that gives us something to think about.  Prepared for bedtime?  Killed while sleeping or in the morning?  Premeditation by someone who knows that death causes voiding?

The adipocere evidence on the paper towels from Tony's trash bag is confusing to me.  Adipocere can form on plastic bags in humid environments.  So did Casey try to handle one of the garbage bags Caylee was in, and get some on her hands, then wipe her hands on a paper towel that had been in Tony's trash bag in her trunk?  (The marijuana evidence on the paper towel could perhaps mean it had been in Tony's apartment!  The air was thick with pot smoke, IMO.)

I believe this is evidence the bag ripped that Caylee was in (or simple spilled when turned over in the trunk) thus why Casey went back and took both gas cans. She attempted to clean up the trunk at Tonys taking the garbage bag out of the house and paper towels blotted the "stain". She realized immediately that was not going to work and dumped the 50/50 gas in the trunk. Did not work either, she had to dump the car on the 27th.[/b]

Someone said the hyoid bone was not recovered, but I thought the report stated that it was... Anyway, an intact hyoid bone in a child does not rule out strangulation... though I don't believe Caylee was strangled.  Possible, though... a spiteful b*tch thing, after being throttled herself by her own mother, maybe?

I do not believe the hyoid bone was recovered unless I missed it, if it were found intact, in a child that small I do feel strangulation would have been highly unlikely, however, I concur I dont think Caylee was strangled.

Regarding the sand/silt:  The soil in the Orlando area contains a lot of sand.  But you know, I seem to recall reading that there was an empty(?) bag of play sand found at the Suburban site.  It gave me all kinds of imaginings regarding the sandbox, the JCPenney charges, the shovel, etc.

A1 asked about the toy horse and the heart sticker.  They were not mentioned in the autopsy report b/c they were found elsewhere at the scene and were not part of the packaging of the remains that went to the medical examiner's office.  They were itemized in the other reports, though.  I don't remember seeing a photo of the little horse...

From memory, I believe LE confiscated some Huggies Swimmers from the closet or drawer(?) in the computer room.  ICBW.

The news story that states there was evidence in the trunk that a person died due to a lack of oxygen is bad interpretation of the reports.  Anaerobic decomposition is what the report mentions, and this term causes much confusion.  Just means that decomposition is taking place in an airtight or near-airtight environment, like being sealed tightly in something.  It creates different decomp gases/chemicals than aerobic, or aerated environments.  (Does not mean that the deceased's body emits gases that indicate they died of lack of oxygen.)

Excellent Analysis on a difficult subject matter.

I am leery of "jumping in" on the pool theories.  One reason is that I have not noticed LE focusing particularly on that in interviews, search warrants, or forensic testing requests.  If the pool was involved I'll be the first to say I was wrong, but my instincts are saying no.
I can't say whether or not she was in the pool, but I do feel very confident Casey is going to say George and Cindy or just Cindy had her in the pool on the 17th and thats how she died. And the Zanny stuff was made up to protect them. No doubt in my mind.[/b]

Am leaning toward smothering in rage, to silence a crying or yelling Caylee, then covering her mouth with duct tape, then stashing her in the trunk.  Am thinking the car backing into the garage (6/18?) was first to put the blanket-wrapped body into a trash bag to contain decomp fluids, second time (6/19or20?) to double-bag her decomposing body.  I think Casey already had the laundry bag in her trunk or at Tony's, and either used it for convenience on disposal day, or used it to hide Caylee's bagged body in the bottom of the laundry bag, covering her with dirty clothes as camouflage.  George stated that when the trunk was opened at the towyard, he saw "clothes" in there.  He also said IIRC in one of his versions of gas can day (or maybe Cindy said this) that he saw clothes in the trunk before Casey slammed it shut.

I dont think George ever got near the back of the trunk in his alleged visit from her 6/24, remember the here's your effin gas cans?

As for the toxicology report stating that the negative result on these bones/hair does not rule out drugging, I believe that testing on bones and hair could only detect previous or long-term drugs in the system.  Am I wrong?  I don't believe that if a drug or toxic gas were used as a part of her killing it would have time to show up in bone or hair...

Pretty much true, although though I do not know the effect on those results from her remains exposure.

Now.  I know that Lee had a roommate.  And I know that this is really "out there."  But check out this myspace message Casey left for Lee on June 23:

23-Jun-08 12:40 PM Casey Anthony (Orlando, FL) wrote Lee "here's my question...
is 'the windy city' an appropriate nickname for chicago? is it really THAT windy?
i've always wondered."

How long was Lee in Chicago?  Was it for his parking company job?  White Sox games maybe?  I think play-offs were happening then.  Here's a wiki link on the White Sox schedule for June of last year.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Chicago_White_Sox_season#June  (You have to scroll down a bit.)  Could Lee have been out of town for a week or two, including the time of Caylee's death?  IIRC he said the last time he saw Caylee was June 5, at the A's home.

What if Casey used Lee's house... what if there is a freezer at Lee's house... cell phone pings would probably mimic those at the A's house, maybe?  I always thought it was so odd for Casey to have a bag of freezer food from home when she abandoned the car that day.  The "make room for a body in the freezer" theory is outlandish, but within the realm of the possible for sure, IMO.

Lee's house was .25 mi from the Anthonys, yes, pings would include his house and fall under the + or - ratio of their reliability.

I'm so tired... sorry if this doesn't make sense.  Just letting my imagination roam.

Sorry so long and rushed; don't know how soon I will be able to post again.  Love ya, Monks... will be back when I can.  Lots going on.

P.S.  Loved Morgan's awesome motion!

Back off my man, you and SunnyTX are gonna get it (teehee)

Our little angel is speaking loud and clear!  Big Trouble Comes in Small Packages indeed.

God Bless Our Caylee.
 
 

Awesome thoughts and Questions Desi- Hope you can get back soon, Blink in Red.
B

Blink sorry to respond to you so late in the day....but John and I got up LATE THIS MORNING!!  and then spent the day....uuuhhh shall I saw leisurely    going back to get caught up!!

[Bearlyhere]

LOL! mama = monk.

The quote stack confused me. ::hangs head in shame::
I blame it on the pdf documents and the eye strain...yeah that is it.

That and not being able to edit because I am an idiot.

pinkeypie angel...(i like to make nicknames)

my mom is blind in one eye as well, and Really, not making a joke;  she cannot see out of the other.  she was born 3 mths premature and it effected her eyesight.  her glasses are about 1/2 inch thick now, but i remember back in the day (before the light-weight plastic lenses) they were about 3 inches thick.  she went to a op (or is it ot?lol?  the eye doctor)  for lasic at one time and the said NO!!  the fact that she only had limited vision from one eye put her out of the game.  she now has 1 contact she puts in...and i worry about her doing that 
                                             WARNING!!!!

so very off topic...sorry

Ma, I have been trying to catch you to tell you how cute your avatar is.

[Bearlyhere]

Blink sorry to respond to you so late in the day....but John and I got up LATE THIS MORNING!!  and then spent the day....uuuhhh shall I saw leisurely    going back to get caught up!!

Braggart!!!

[Ono]

Our new Monkey spoiled my surprise for a piece I am working on, but we give credit where credit is due, right Monkeys?
Good Job Pinball Wizard.. Klaas and I were kibitzing about this this afternoon, your correct, it matches the measurements and "hidden" metal circular ring and all:

Good sleuthing Pinball W.        

[Bearlyhere]

I wonder if Brad Conway secretly regrets taking this case yet ... ??

I think he must have conteplated that many times in the wee hours of the morning as he stares down into the ice floating in his drink koolaid. 

    No doubt.

Edited for clarity.

[Fanny Mae]

I wonder if Brad Conway secretly regrets taking this case yet ... ??

I think he must have conteplated that many times in the wee hours of the morning as he stares down into the ice floating in his drink koolaid. 

    No doubt.

Edited for clarity.

 

[Ono]

      I love all of John Morgan's motions .... lol