Clover road baptist church

[Tracygirl]

Well like I need to explain why this thread is being started, lol.

I am not an overly religious person meaning I do not attend a church nor do I have the bible memorized so i am going to defer my questions to those who are more knowledgable. This is from the clover road baptist church site. Does this sound conventional or radical or????

http://www.clover-road-baptist-church.com/church1.html
ABOUT OUR CHURCH                 

In 1957, the Airport MBC of Modesto and the Eastside MBC of Stocton authorized mission work in Tracy. Under this authority, the victory MBC was established and built on property donated to the church. Victory's first pastor was Eld. James Taylor. Eld. Charles Scott began pastoring Victory in 1970.

In 1974, the Landmark MBC of Salinas authorized mission work in Mountain Viewwhich resulted in the formation of the Sovereign Grace MBC. Eld. A.D. harris was their first pastor. After several years of meeting in rented facilities, the church, under the leadership of Eld. Lawles, began to look for a permanent location.

 Meanwhile, the Vicory MBC of Tracy was looking for assistance because of the failing health of Pastor Scott. Victory then approached Eld. Lawless and Sovereign Grace to request he consider a pastorate in Tracy.

 After much prayer by both Victory and Sovereign Grace, the churches voted to merge. In 1981, the members of Victory joined Sovereign Grace, donating their property and assests to the Sovereign Grace Church. We are now known as Clover Road Baptist Church.

 Since that time, we have reaffirmed our statements of faith, as found in the New Hampshire Confessions of Faith, and are committed to preaching God's sovereign grace, through the shed blood of Jesus Christ, by the power of the Holy Spirit.

 



http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil//creeds/nh_conf.htm

 
The New Hampshire
Baptist Confession, 1833
(The New Hampshire Confession)
 



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Contents
Of the Scriptures

Of the True God

Of the Fall of Man

Of the Way of Salvation

Of Justification

Of the Freeness of Salvation

Of Grace in Regeneration

Of Repentance and Faith

Of God's Purpose of Grace

Of Sanctification

Of the Perseverance of Saints

Of the Harmony of the Law and the Gospel

Of a Gospel Church

Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper

Of the Christian Sabbath

Of Civil Government

Of the Righteous and the Wicked

Of the World to Come
Notes


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his Confession was drawn up by the Rev. John Newton Brown, D. D., of New Hampshire (b. 1803, d. 1868), about 1833, and has been adopted by the New Hampshire Convention, and widely accepted by Baptists, especially in the Northern and Western States, as a clear and concise statement of their faith, in harmony with the doctrines of older confessions, but expressed in milder form. The text is taken from the Baptist Church Manual, published by the American Baptist Publication Society, Philadelphia.

Declaration of Faith
1. Of the Scriptures
e believe that the Holy Bible was written by men divinely inspired, and is a perfect treasure of heavenly instruction;1 that it has God for its author, salvation for its end,2 and truth without any mixture of error for its matter;3 that it reveals the principles by which God will judge us;4 and therefore is, and shall remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union,5 and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and opinions should be tried.6

2. Of the True God
e believe that there is one, and only one, living and true God, an infinite, intelligent Spirit, whose name is JEHOVAH, the Maker and Supreme Ruler of Heaven and earth;7 inexpressibly glorious in holiness,8 and worthy of all possible honor, confidence, and love;9 that in the unity of the Godhead there are three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost;10 equal in every divine perfection,11 and executing distinct and harmonious offices in the great work of redemption.12

3. Of the Fall of Man
e believe that man was created in holiness, under the law of his Maker;13 but by voluntary transgression fell from that holy and happy state;14 in consequence of which all mankind are now sinners,15 not by constraint, but choice;16 being by nature utterly void of that holiness required by the law of God, positively inclined to evil; and therefore under just condemnation to eternal ruin,17 without defense or excuse.18

4. Of the Way of Salvation
e believe that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace,19 through the mediatorial offices of the Son of God;20 who by the appointment of the Father, freely took upon him our nature, yet without sin;21 honored the divine law by his personal obedience,22 and by his death made a full atonement for our sins;23 that having risen from the death, he is now enthroned in heaven;24 and uniting in his wonderful person the tenderest sympathies with divine perfections, he is every way qualified to be a suitable, a compassionate, and an all- sufficient Saviour.25

5. Of Justification
e believe that the great gospel blessing which Christ26 secures to such as believe in him is Justification;27 that Justification includes the pardon of sin,28 and the promise of eternal life on principles of righteousness;29 that it is bestowed, not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done, but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood;30 by virtue of which faith his perfect righteousness is freely imputed to us of God;31 that it brings us into a state of most blessed peace and favor with God, and secures every other blessing needful for time and eternity.32

6. Of the Freeness of Salvation
e believe that the blessings of salvation are made free to all by the gospel;33 that it is the immediate duty of all to accept them by a cordial, penitent, and obedient faith;34 and that nothing prevents the salvation of the greatest sinner on earth but his own inherent depravity and voluntary rejection of the gospel;35 which rejection involves him in an aggravated condemnation.36

7. Of Grace in Regeneration
e believe that, in order to be saved, sinners must be regenerated, or born again;37 that regeneration consists in giving a holy disposition to the mind;38 that it is effected in a manner above our comprehension by the power of the Holy Spirit, in connection with divine truth,39 so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the gospel;40 and that its proper evidence appears in the holy fruits of repentance, and faith, and newness of life.41

8. Of Repentance and Faith
e believe that Repentance and Faith are sacred duties, and also inseparable graces, wrought in our souls by the regenerating Spirit of God;42 whereby being deeply convinced of our guilt, danger, and helplessness, and of the way of salvation by Christ,43 we turn to God with unfeigned contrition, confession, and supplication for mercy;44 at the same time heartily receiving the Lord Jesus Christ as our Prophet, Priest, and King, and relying on him alone as the only and all-sufficient Saviour.45

9. Of God's Purpose of Grace
e believe that Election is the eternal purpose of God, according to which he graciously regenerates, sanctifies, and saves sinners;46 that being perfectly consistent with the free agency of man, it comprehends all the means in connection with the end;47 that it is a most glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, being infinitely free, wise, holy, and unchangeable;48 that it utterly excludes boasting, and promotes humility, love, prayer, praise, trust in God, and active imitation of his free mercy;49 that it encourages the use of means in the highest degree;50 that it may be ascertained by its effects in all who truly believe the gospel;51 that it is the foundation of Christian assurance;52 and that to ascertain it with regard to ourselves demands and deserves the utmost diligence.53

10. Of Sanctification
e believe that Sanctification is the process by which, according to the will of God, we are made partakers of his holiness;54 that it is a progressive work;55 that it is begun in regeneration;56 and that it is carried on in the hearts of believers by the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, the Sealer and Comforter, in the continual use of the appointed means—especially the Word of God, self-examination, self-denial, watchfulness, and prayer.57

11. Of the Perseverance of Saints
e believe that such only are real believers as endure unto the end;58 that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors;59 that a special Providence watches over their welfare;60 and they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.61
12. Of the Harmony of the Law and the Gospel
e believe that the Law of God is the eternal and unchangeable rule of his moral government;62 that it is holy, just, and good;63 and that the inability which the Scriptures ascribe to fallen men to fulfill its precepts arises entirely from their love of sin;64 to deliver them from which, and to restore them through a Mediator to unfeigned obedience to the holy Law, is one great end of the Gospel, and of the means of grace connected with the establishment of the visible Church.65

13. Of a Gospel Church
e believe that a visible Church of Christ is a congregation of baptized believers,66 associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the gospel;67 observing the ordinances of Christ;68 governed by his laws,69 and exercising the gifts, rights, and privileges invested in them by his Word;70 that its only scriptural officers are Bishops, or Pastors, and Deacons,71 whose qualifications, claims, and duties are defined in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus.

14. Of Baptism and the Lord's Supper
e believe that Christian Baptism is the immersion in water of a believer,72 into the name of the Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost;73 to show forth, in a solemn and beautiful emblem, our faith in the crucified, buried, and risen Saviour, with its effect in our death to sin and resurrection to a new life;74 that it is prerequisite to the privileges of a Church relation; and to the Lord's Supper,75 in which the members of the Church, by the sacred use of bread and wine, are to commemorate together the dying love of Christ;76 preceded always by solemn self-examination.77

15. Of the Christian Sabbath
e believe that the first day of the week is the Lord's Day, or Christian Sabbath;78 and is to be kept sacred to religious purposes,79 by abstaining from all secular labor and sinful recreations;80 by the devout observance of all the means of grace, both private81 and public;82 and by preparation for that rest that remaineth for the people of God.83

16. Of Civil Government
e believe that civil government is of divine appointment, for the interests and good order of human society;84 and that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored and obeyed;85 except only in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ86 who is the only Lord of the conscience, and the Prince of the kings of the earth.87

17. Of the Righteous and the Wicked
e believe that there is a radical and essential difference between the righteous and the wicked;88 that such only as through faith are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and sanctified by the Spirit of our God, are truly righteous in his esteem;89 while all such as continue in impenitence and unbelief are in his sight wicked, and under the curse;90 and this distinction holds among men both in and after death.91

18. Of the World to Come
e believe that the end of the world is approaching;92 that at the last day Christ will descend from heaven,93 and raise the dead from the grave to final retribution;94 that a solemn separation will then take place;95 that the wicked will be adjudged to endless punishment, and the righteous to endless joy;96 and that this judgment will fix forever the final state of men in heaven or hell, on principles of righteousness.97


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[lonemonkey]

Just a picture...

[Sister]

Tracy, this is traditional Baptist theology.  There are many subdivisions of the Baptist theology.  I studied this in seminary.  Before I speak off the top of my head very much, let me go back to some of my books this week (which I love to do).  A few things which are different (not correct or incorrect, just different), most Baptists believe in water immersion of baptism (hence the name) and also from the name of John the Baptizer.  This means you must be of age to make a decision to be a follower of Jesus.  Most Baptists believe you must be a member of their church/denomination, etc. in order to take Holy Communion (likewise on this issue with Catholics).  Some segments of Baptists do not believe women can teach men, thus cannot be preachers (although they can teach Sunday school to males) but they can be missionaries.
But you will see under the religion thread, there are Calvinists, Old State, etc.  Their beliefs differ.  I'll do a little more research if you want.  But I can assure you, on their web sites, they more than likely will not discuss their differences, but will generalize their beliefs to attract people.

[Sister]

Oh, one more thing.  Some segments of Baptists do not believe in divorce under any circumstances.  I have a friend who was a Baptist minister (I couldn't preach from his pulpit, but I could preach to the women in the basement).  Anyway, his wife divorced him because she just didn't want to be a preacher's wife anymore.  The Baptist Associaton kicked him out of the church, totally.  He ended up taking his own life.  How's that for being an Assoication?

[Tracygirl]

I guess I am trying to figure out this church and how it can be a church without a non profit status, without any real members...

I want to know if they believe in a conventional way or in a non conventional/radical way. There are somethings which have been taken off the website.which were there when we first spoke of this church months ago. We found some site that was associated with it and it seemed a bit scary to me and a bit radical. Does anyone remember that?

But something you said, a person must be of age...is nine "of age"? Wasn't someone 9?

[Sister]

I guess I am trying to figure out this church and how it can be a church without a non profit status, without any real members...

I want to know if they believe in a conventional way or in a non conventional/radical way. There are somethings which have been taken off the website.which were there when we first spoke of this church months ago. We found some site that was associated with it and it seemed a bit scary to me and a bit radical. Does anyone remember that?

But something you said, a person must be of age...is nine "of age"? Wasn't someone 9?

I'm not sure about the age thing.  They absolutely (sp) should be a non-profit.  Even non-traditional churches get a 501(3)(c), otherwise, they have to pay all kinds of taxes.
I don't think a non-profit status could be found for this church.  I may be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure.  Maybe it needs to be searched for again or go look at the deeds to see if taxes were paid then.

[Sister]

This was from Blink some months back

"Clover Road Baptist Church

I cant view the actual document, but their is a "charity license", although not a 501c3 for this church on Dec31, 1999, but it has an expiration date 5 months later, but says "active". Can anyone find the actual document?
They are not on pub 78 of the IRS."

[Sister]

The federal id number may be under Victory Missionary or Sovereign Grace or Missionary Baptist.  I would think it would have to be under Clover Road, but . . .

The Victory Missionary Baptist Church of Tracy was looking for assistance because of the failing health of Pastor Scott. Victory then approached Eld. (Lane) Lawless and Sovereign Grace (Missionary Baptist Church of Mountain View CA) to request he consider a pastorate in Tracy. 

The churches voted to merge. In 1981, the members of Victory joined Sovereign Grace, donating their property and assets to the Sovereign Grace Church. The name of the church was changed to Clover Road Baptist Church. Lane has pastored Clover Road Baptist Church of Tracy CA - since 1981.

[doubledecker]

all the things they church lists as their beliefs is pretty mainstream for many denominations, they differe a little here and there but for the most part this is pretty common.  I don't see anything written there that would make me think they are way off the wall in accordance with any other  Christian church. 

I do remember a site that was a bit weird that was connected to the website.  btw I copies all of that website before they changed it.  I also copied all the posts in the guestbook.  I knew it would all poof. 

some weirdo church and followers is probably not going to publish their weirdo beliefs out where everyone can see it.  they normally hide behind traditional beliefs but do whatever they do in private. Example:  BTK/Dennis Rader, mainstream Lutheran church, weirdo individual.  These weirdo ones are very good at hiding what their real beliefs are. 

There are many serial killers who are very knowledgeable of the Bible but they will twist is all up and mix it up with astrology etc, and end up with some really weird quasi-religious beliefs and then start killing people according to their beliefs.   

[Sister]

DD, this is one time I wish you were wrong.  You're not wrong at all.

[doubledecker]

This was from Blink some months back

"Clover Road Baptist Church

I cant view the actual document, but their is a "charity license", although not a 501c3 for this church on Dec31, 1999, but it has an expiration date 5 months later, but says "active". Can anyone find the actual document?
They are not on pub 78 of the IRS."

sometimes a church will fall under the "mother church" who has the 501 c 3.  And who knows, maybe they lost their 501 c 3, or just never applied for one, but that would be pretty unusual.  one thing their website never had was a list of the members or the board. 

I know this all records of 501 c 3's are public.  They have to make them public, so if they are 501c3 there has to be a record and it is available for public review.  that is the law.

[doubledecker]

The federal id number may be under Victory Missionary or Sovereign Grace or Missionary Baptist.  I would think it would have to be under Clover Road, but . . .

The Victory Missionary Baptist Church of Tracy was looking for assistance because of the failing health of Pastor Scott. Victory then approached Eld. (Lane) Lawless and Sovereign Grace (Missionary Baptist Church of Mountain View CA) to request he consider a pastorate in Tracy. 

The churches voted to merge. In 1981, the members of Victory joined Sovereign Grace, donating their property and assets to the Sovereign Grace Church. The name of the church was changed to Clover Road Baptist Church. Lane has pastored Clover Road Baptist Church of Tracy CA - since 1981.

I had posted about this before but will say it again.  this is just too weird.  why would the mountain view church donate all its property and assets to a church over in tracy, are they going to drive over there to church every sunday and any other days they have bible study etc?  and if the member merged, where are they?  the neighbors to the clover road church said only a handful of cars ever showed up, so if that is all they have for member AFTER they merged, just how many did they have BEFORED they merged?  and somewhere I posted about how in one of the church, maybe the san jose one they all got into some riproaring argumet and the personn overseeing the meeting throeatened to call the police on the others.  the people they were trying to unseat in that church were the harris famliy members. 

[doubledecker]

I can post the original content of the church webpages if anyone wants them.  I copied it all.

[Sister]

DD, I remember that very well, but I think we just moved on to other things.  I know there is something that ain't fish going on here.

[Sister]

From the Articles of Faith of the Arisal Baptist Church where Connie's brother is the pastor:

IN THE EVENT THAT ANY MEMBER OR GROUP OF MEMBERS SHOULD UNDERTAKE TO AMMEND, ADD TO, OR ABROGATE THESE STATEMENTS, THEIR ACTIONS SHALL DECLARE THEM TO BE OUT OF FELLOWSHIP WITH THE CHURCH AND OUT OF HARMONY WITH THESE STATEMENTS AND WILL BE EXCLUDED ON THE GROUNDS OF HAVING DEPARTED FROM THE FAITH OF THIS CHURCH. AS LONG AS TWO OR MORE MEMBERS HOLD TO THE ABOVE STATED PRINCIPLES THEY SHALL CONSTITUTE THE CHURCH, OWN AND HOLD ALL PROPERTIES IN THE NAME OF THE "ALISAL BAPTIST CHURCH, INDEPENDENT MISSIONARY," WORSHIPPING AT 452 WILLIAMS ROAD, SALINAS, CALIFORNIA. IF THE CHURCH SHOULD EVER DISBAND, THE PROPERTY WILL BE SOLD AND THE PROCEEDS GIVEN TO THE ALISAL BAPTIST CHURCH OR CHURCHES OF THE SAME FAITH.

I guess if it disbands, the money goes to the pastor???

[Sister]

DD, this is you and I'm reminding you :>)
I remember watching a video of two people interviewed in front of the church, there was a sign out there and this is the right church you have.  I have the info somewhere will try to find it tomorrow.  Its somewhere in my notes or on a private board, I will try to find it, maybe the video is still up.  anyway the two people interviewed were also both named johnson a man and a woman, I think I remember his name was bob johnson?  let me find that tomorrow.  and they said something about being really worried this was all being brought up and they did not feel safe or something to that affect, it was weird. 

falling asleep so will look for this tomorrow, if I forget, someone remind me.
Nite

[doubledecker]

From the Articles of Faith of the Arisal Baptist Church where Connie's brother is the pastor:

IN THE EVENT THAT ANY MEMBER OR GROUP OF MEMBERS SHOULD UNDERTAKE TO AMMEND, ADD TO, OR ABROGATE THESE STATEMENTS, THEIR ACTIONS SHALL DECLARE THEM TO BE OUT OF FELLOWSHIP WITH THE CHURCH AND OUT OF HARMONY WITH THESE STATEMENTS AND WILL BE EXCLUDED ON THE GROUNDS OF HAVING DEPARTED FROM THE FAITH OF THIS CHURCH. AS LONG AS TWO OR MORE MEMBERS HOLD TO THE ABOVE STATED PRINCIPLES THEY SHALL CONSTITUTE THE CHURCH, OWN AND HOLD ALL PROPERTIES IN THE NAME OF THE "ALISAL BAPTIST CHURCH, INDEPENDENT MISSIONARY," WORSHIPPING AT 452 WILLIAMS ROAD, SALINAS, CALIFORNIA. IF THE CHURCH SHOULD EVER DISBAND, THE PROPERTY WILL BE SOLD AND THE PROCEEDS GIVEN TO THE ALISAL BAPTIST CHURCH OR CHURCHES OF THE SAME FAITH.

I guess if it disbands, the money goes to the pastor???

well when you are a 501c3 and you quit everything has to go to another 501c3, it can't go to the individuals.

[doubledecker]

DD, this is you and I'm reminding you :>)
I remember watching a video of two people interviewed in front of the church, there was a sign out there and this is the right church you have.  I have the info somewhere will try to find it tomorrow.  Its somewhere in my notes or on a private board, I will try to find it, maybe the video is still up.  anyway the two people interviewed were also both named johnson a man and a woman, I think I remember his name was bob johnson?  let me find that tomorrow.  and they said something about being really worried this was all being brought up and they did not feel safe or something to that affect, it was weird. 

falling asleep so will look for this tomorrow, if I forget, someone remind me.
Nite

oh thanks, I forgot all about this, this is about the clarkston church with dale johnson.  hmm let me try to find that and I will go post it over in that thread, hmmm wwhat thread was that in?  please excuse the typos my screen is jumping all over again ugh

[Sister]

From the Articles of Faith of the Arisal Baptist Church where Connie's brother is the pastor:

IN THE EVENT THAT ANY MEMBER OR GROUP OF MEMBERS SHOULD UNDERTAKE TO AMMEND, ADD TO, OR ABROGATE THESE STATEMENTS, THEIR ACTIONS SHALL DECLARE THEM TO BE OUT OF FELLOWSHIP WITH THE CHURCH AND OUT OF HARMONY WITH THESE STATEMENTS AND WILL BE EXCLUDED ON THE GROUNDS OF HAVING DEPARTED FROM THE FAITH OF THIS CHURCH. AS LONG AS TWO OR MORE MEMBERS HOLD TO THE ABOVE STATED PRINCIPLES THEY SHALL CONSTITUTE THE CHURCH, OWN AND HOLD ALL PROPERTIES IN THE NAME OF THE "ALISAL BAPTIST CHURCH, INDEPENDENT MISSIONARY," WORSHIPPING AT 452 WILLIAMS ROAD, SALINAS, CALIFORNIA. IF THE CHURCH SHOULD EVER DISBAND, THE PROPERTY WILL BE SOLD AND THE PROCEEDS GIVEN TO THE ALISAL BAPTIST CHURCH OR CHURCHES OF THE SAME FAITH.

I guess if it disbands, the money goes to the pastor???

well when you are a 501c3 and you quit everything has to go to another 501c3, it can't go to the individuals.

Gotcha, but if the church disbands, how could it give itself the proceeds?  To bed right now (I'm talking to myself :>)

[doubledecker]

everything from a 501c3 has to go to another 501c3.  When you file your articles this is one of the things you have to add in there if you want approved.  I have filed many 501c3's in the state of cali.  And one was even a church.